Film is coming back...

sinwen

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I went to my photo dealer this morning after a long while I didn't visited him. I had no more E6 chemicals to treat my slides and as I am about to go for hollidays I decided to give him the few exposed rolls I have.

Then we started to chat.... and he confirmed our long past conversation we had when digital arise. I was telling him at that time that people will have no "souvenir" with digital and it exactly what is happening.

He has more and more customers who lose all their pictures due to hard disk and computer failures because "average Joe" do not make CD nor copy of any sort, it is too much restricting, they may do it once or twice but quit very fast.

I am living at a place where people come to spend their hollidays and he see a lot of them coming to him for card salvage, camera disfunctions who lose all their trip pictures and end up buying "shot & throw" film cameras.

As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the towel.

He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !

My vision of this market is that people will play taking pictures with their cellphones which will replace P&S cameras very soon and they will be using film for decisive moments. The photograph hobbyists will stick to digital as professionals will do but the size of this market is small.

As for me, I have no digital camera yet and plan to get a tiny P&S to stick into my pocket just for the fun of it and immediate not important pictures to post over the internet. I never trusted electronics and never will, so I cannot concieve spending a lot of money into such gear. I will carry on film for what I consider of value.
Sure enough film won't be what it was before but it is on its way back.
 
It is possible that the average person could get into this predicament and it is conceivable that they may end up using phone cameras.

But you can do reprints from the equivalent of your negatives, that is your backup CD, DVD or whatever you use. The shop can even make your backup CD for you when you get your first set of prints, then you can erase your memory card and start all over.

I have used P&S cameras for years and travelled all over the world and had not problems at all, its not rocket science.

Brian
 
I wouldn't care for film as the original medium but would love to see a service that wrote digital files to E-6 media, unfortunately Kodachrome is defunct.

I have Kodachrome slides and some Ektachrome and Agfachrome slides dating from the '60s in perfect condition and even Kodachromes from the early '50s. I have my father's Kodachromes from the beginning that are perfect. I have black and white prints from the 1920s and some prints family members that predate me and even go back to the 1800's.

There is no guarantee that digital files stored on magnetic or optical media will be readable 50 years from now, as long as I can see I can still use the film files. Instead of trying to outmegapixel each other the industry should be working on a solution to longevity of digital images.
 
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
My wife and my Mother. A $25 (US) 2 gig Extreme II holds over 1,000 six megapixel SD630 images. My Mother's SD630 is about 10 months old. She has every image she took (minus a few obvious bad images.) The card is about 1/3 full.

Flash cards are*much* cheaper than film. The kind of unsophisticated users that you describe don't "shotgun" a thousand images a shoot the way that a lot of DPreviewer regulars do. A capacity of a thousand images can be good for several years. For people that developed their shooting habits by the drugstore film roll.

Wayne
 
He has more and more customers who lose all their pictures due to
hard disk and computer failures because "average Joe" do not make CD
nor copy of any sort, it is too much restricting, they may do it once
or twice but quit very fast.
I seriously doubt that there is any difference to the number of people who lost prints. Not event talking about all the people who throw negatives in the trash immediately
As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor
themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with
a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the
towel.
I am guessing it is about the same number of people who had to send in their cameras because they pushed their thumbs into the shutter blades while changing film and needed a shutter replaced
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
Most people threw away negatives anyway. If i ask almost anyone who isnt really into photography where their negs are they will tell me they are in the trash
My vision of this market is that people will play taking pictures
with their cellphones which will replace P&S cameras very soon and
they will be using film for decisive moments. The photograph
hobbyists will stick to digital as professionals will do but the size
of this market is small.
nonsense
As for me, I have no digital camera yet and plan to get a tiny P&S to
stick into my pocket just for the fun of it and immediate not
important pictures to post over the internet. I never trusted
electronics and never will, so I cannot concieve spending a lot of
money into such gear. I will carry on film for what I consider of
value.
I guess you still have a manual hand cranked turn table ? rotary phone ?
Sure enough film won't be what it was before but it is on its way back.
No it isnt. It is on its way out. Film will be around for a while especially in third world countries and for special applications but obviously it is on its way out just like records where on their way out rather quickly after CD's came to the market. Yes some people still love em but that doesnt make them come back

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
From my perspective (I do about $2.5millionUS dollars annual sales in photo and printing) digital is now, AND the future. Film will stick around a while, but choices (slides, BW, speed) will diminish. With proper education (all of about 5 minutes) digital shooters of all skill levels understand the importance of saving to CD, DVD or some other media. It's commonplace now for customers to place an oredr an automatically order a CD - not making special efforts or time expenditures to do so.

Digital is becoming easier, better (for the most part) and less expensive with every new generation -- not a cheerleader, but more of a realist.
 
You are probably right for your part of the world and it is interesting to see the differences. Here I can tell you I didn't hear much of people ordering CD when they discharge their cards.
 
As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor
themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with
a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the
towel.
I am guessing it is about the same number of people who had to send
in their cameras because they pushed their thumbs into the shutter
blades while changing film and needed a shutter replaced
That's a joke !
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
Most people threw away negatives anyway. If i ask almost anyone who
isnt really into photography where their negs are they will tell me
they are in the trash
Never heard of people throwing negatives, that's another joke !
My vision of this market is that people will play taking pictures
with their cellphones which will replace P&S cameras very soon and
they will be using film for decisive moments. The photograph
hobbyists will stick to digital as professionals will do but the size
of this market is small.
nonsense
Nonsense :-))
As for me, I have no digital camera yet and plan to get a tiny P&S to
stick into my pocket just for the fun of it and immediate not
important pictures to post over the internet. I never trusted
electronics and never will, so I cannot concieve spending a lot of
money into such gear. I will carry on film for what I consider of
value.
I guess you still have a manual hand cranked turn table ? rotary phone ?
I even ride my horse to town going to work daily and blow my candle when going to bed
Sure enough film won't be what it was before but it is on its way back.
No it isnt. It is on its way out. Film will be around for a while
especially in third world countries and for special applications but
obviously it is on its way out just like records where on their way
out rather quickly after CD's came to the market. Yes some people
still love em but that doesnt make them come back

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
I am probably in a "third world countries" you know where those people are uneducated and still wild, indigene of some sort. Nice deferent vision of where you aren't living.
 
As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor
themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with
a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the
towel.
I am guessing it is about the same number of people who had to send
in their cameras because they pushed their thumbs into the shutter
blades while changing film and needed a shutter replaced
That's a joke !
Not a joke at all. I have seen this a lot. Definately seen more mashed shutters than people having to replace a sensor
Most people threw away negatives anyway. If i ask almost anyone who
isnt really into photography where their negs are they will tell me
they are in the trash
Never heard of people throwing negatives, that's another joke !
joke is on you
Nonsense :-))
good one ...
I even ride my horse to town going to work daily and blow my candle
when going to bed
thought so ...
I am probably in a "third world countries" you know where those
people are uneducated and still wild, indigene of some sort. Nice
deferent vision of where you aren't living.
sure looks like it ...

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
From my perspective (I do about $2.5millionUS dollars annual sales in
photo and printing) digital is now, AND the future. Film will stick
around a while, but choices (slides, BW, speed) will diminish. With
Obviously. It is already hard today to get black and white film in photo stores and if they do have some often it is quite old.
Digital is becoming easier, better (for the most part) and less
expensive with every new generation -- not a cheerleader, but more of
a realist.
thats the main issue right now. The whole process has to be fully implemented and it isnt fully there yet but as we have seen over the last few years everything changes rather quickly.

to think that film would come back is simply foolish IMO. To think it would be gone by tomorrow is just as foolish of course.

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
My wife and my Mother. A $25 (US) 2 gig Extreme II holds over 1,000
six megapixel SD630 images. My Mother's SD630 is about 10 months old.
She has every image she took (minus a few obvious bad images.) The
card is about 1/3 full.

Flash cards are*much* cheaper than film. The kind of
unsophisticated users that you describe don't "shotgun" a thousand
images a shoot the way that a lot of DPreviewer regulars do. A
capacity of a thousand images can be good for several years. For
people that developed their shooting habits by the drugstore film
roll.

Wayne
DO YOU THINK THOSE FLASH CARDS WILL BE READABLE 50 YEARS FROM NOW?
 
usage, the overall direction is DOWNWARD. Film is not coming back.
On the other hand, film usage will not completely disappear any time
soon - its usage will continue to decline until it flattens out a low level
that will then persist for some period of time.

--
When a hammer is your only tool, all problems begin to look like nails.
 
Film will exist for a very long time yet, probably forever. Lot's of people still like it just like lots of people like oil or water color painting. But film as a photographic method is today for the overwhelming majority a arcane technology, with some nostalgia associated with it.
He has more and more customers who lose all their pictures due to
hard disk and computer failures because "average Joe" do not make CD
nor copy of any sort, it is too much restricting, they may do it once
or twice but quit very fast.
Yeah ... So nobody ever lost negatives slides?

It is a lot easier, and cheaper, to make sure you have duplicates or triplicates of digital photos then of those flimsy plastic things that got scratched, lost, dirty ...
I am living at a place where people come to spend their hollidays and
he see a lot of them coming to him for card salvage, camera
disfunctions who lose all their trip pictures and end up buying "shot
& throw" film cameras.
If you destroy a film (like opening the camera with the film not rolled back), it is usually completely destroyed. While images residing on a malfunctioning memory card, hard drive can most often be salvaged by a experienced technichian.
As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor
themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with
a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the
towel.
Well people have been mashing up their cameras in more ways then we can comprehend throughout the history of photograpy. What's new in that?
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
Eh, ever heard of computers and hard drives? ;)
My vision of this market is that people will play taking pictures
with their cellphones which will replace P&S cameras very soon
That might actually happen to some extent.
and
they will be using film for decisive moments.
Or much more likely a proper digital camera.
The photograph
hobbyists will stick to digital as professionals will do but the size
of this market is small.
So "photograph hobbyists" and "professionals" (I assume you are referring to professional photographers) is a small market ... What other market is there? ;)
As for me, I have no digital camera yet and plan to get a tiny P&S to
stick into my pocket just for the fun of it
Good idea!
and immediate not
important pictures to post over the internet. I never trusted
electronics and never will
So you never use a car, cell phone, ATM, fly by air, watch TV ...? Your are using electronics whether you like it or not ;)
so I cannot concieve spending a lot of
money into such gear. I will carry on film for what I consider of
value.
Sure enough film won't be what it was before but it is on its way back.
Seriously, if you prefer film, it is your choice, and you are not alone. Like I mentioned before a lot of people like film for a number of reasons, and other people do not trust or feel the urge to learn to use digital cameras. It is their (and your choice). But digital phot is firmly here to stay for a very, very long time and film is not making any great comeback. That is a pipe dream.
 
I like using both..film still has a place for me..alongside digital..

The megapixel freaks always declare film is dead..and its finished..but it always seems to bounce back..and get up off the ring floor ;-)

I have increased my film output recently..you just cannot beat some film...tones and b&w is hard to match with digital.

FIlm will likely be about for a long time..

If makers bothered to make decent compacts..instead of the junk the throw out, with crappy IQ and bad DR..then there may be no need for film anymore. Playing the mp game they have defeated themselves...

Use both folks...flim rocks in many ways...and digital has some huge advantages too.

Best of both worlds...
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)
 
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
My wife and my Mother. A $25 (US) 2 gig Extreme II holds over 1,000
six megapixel SD630 images. My Mother's SD630 is about 10 months old.
She has every image she took (minus a few obvious bad images.) The
card is about 1/3 full.

Flash cards are*much* cheaper than film. The kind of
unsophisticated users that you describe don't "shotgun" a thousand
images a shoot the way that a lot of DPreviewer regulars do. A
capacity of a thousand images can be good for several years. For
people that developed their shooting habits by the drugstore film
roll.

Wayne
DO YOU THINK THOSE FLASH CARDS WILL BE READABLE 50 YEARS FROM NOW?
Wow. You're that upset about it you have to scream.

None of us know what will be possible in 50 years, just as those shooting film 50 years ago didn't know whether or not slide projectors would still be in use today--though given the processes at the time, such a belief was logical, and came true.

How many 50 year old photos do you have on hand, and where are the negatives or originals?

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
He has more and more customers who lose all their pictures due to
hard disk and computer failures because "average Joe" do not make CD
nor copy of any sort, it is too much restricting, they may do it once
or twice but quit very fast.
I seriously doubt that there is any difference to the number of
people who lost prints. Not event talking about all the people who
throw negatives in the trash immediately
That's my wife you're talking about! "We've got prints. Let's toss the junk stuff." Her family may be a case in point. Everyone has a computer, right down to the grandchildren, and everyone who wants a camera has one. No one has a film camera (except me, and that Mamiya C33 was a recent gift. Whoops. Take that back. My wife has a couple of film cameras that sit on the sideboard with a couple of rolls of film that is well out of date because the cameras haven't been used in four or more years).
As for DSRL owners it is even worst. Many tried to clean their sensor
themselves and the camera go straight to the services department with
a such a bill at the end they wonder what to do or they throw the
towel.
I am guessing it is about the same number of people who had to send
in their cameras because they pushed their thumbs into the shutter
blades while changing film and needed a shutter replaced
I am guessing it is utter nonsense. There simply is not that much to cleaning a sensor.
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
Most people threw away negatives anyway. If i ask almost anyone who
isnt really into photography where their negs are they will tell me
they are in the trash
As noted, most people today have computers of one kind or another. Most people do not have a problem with copying to them, or copying to a CD. Some people now seem to stick their cards in an envelope and "file" them in a drawer. The cards are cheap and hold a tremendous number of JPEGs.
My vision of this market is that people will play taking pictures
with their cellphones which will replace P&S cameras very soon and
they will be using film for decisive moments. The photograph
hobbyists will stick to digital as professionals will do but the size
of this market is small.
nonsense
Nonsense is right.
As for me, I have no digital camera yet and plan to get a tiny P&S to
stick into my pocket just for the fun of it and immediate not
important pictures to post over the internet. I never trusted
electronics and never will, so I cannot concieve spending a lot of
money into such gear. I will carry on film for what I consider of
value.
I guess you still have a manual hand cranked turn table ? rotary phone ?
And he'd best hope there's no light leak in his darkroom or his processors or he doesn't open his back too soon or forget what film is in the camera or need a 1600 ISO instead of the 200 he's been using or...
Sure enough film won't be what it was before but it is on its way back.
No it isnt. It is on its way out. Film will be around for a while
especially in third world countries and for special applications but
obviously it is on its way out just like records where on their way
out rather quickly after CD's came to the market. Yes some people
still love em but that doesnt make them come back
Film is dying much more rapidly than I originally thought it would. Ten or 11 years ago, I had a local commercial photographer tell me he'd paid about 25K for his camera. I just shook my head. For my kind of photography, that kind of money in a single camera is out of bounds. Now, I'm using DSLRs exclusively for all my work, as are almost all the other pros I have heard of.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
Film is dying much more rapidly than I originally thought it would.
Ten or 11 years ago, I had a local commercial photographer tell me
he'd paid about 25K for his camera. I just shook my head. For my kind
of photography, that kind of money in a single camera is out of
bounds. Now, I'm using DSLRs exclusively for all my work, as are
almost all the other pros I have heard of.
Its has taken a massive hit from consumers...switching to digital..though I see some going back to film too, amazingly some people are less than impressed with the bad range of compacts out there. (aka image quality wise somewhat lacking)

As for working photogs...aside from myself I know many who are using film more..as the digital fad dies out...for reasons already mentioned. It has a unique quality that is hard to match with digital.

I use say 75% digital..but have started to increase my film output recently..and invest in more film bodies too. Its not unusual to find this with other working photogs too.

At the end of the day...what is of most importance is the final image..how you get there is up to you.

If film were really a complete loss...fuji wouldnt be bringing out velvia again ;-)

Clued in photographers know that photoraphy is about pictures..and not beating the digital rules drum..film sucks...until I see a print that matches Ilford b&w from a digital camera. I will continue to use some film too. I encourage others to do so....
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)
 
My local dealer (3 very nice - and growing family owned photo stores) does not even stock slide film anymore. I was talking to the owner a while ago and he said it took so long to sell the last block that he decided to no longer stock slide film (even though he still shoots slides). In fact, the big film display they once had in their stores has been replaced with a display on printing digital pictures.

These stores are the place where the local pros get their service, they do a very good job in printing images.

The stores are doing great, they have been able to do a complete remodel on their stores - how? because several years ago they started to focus on digital services - photo and video. They started this long before it was dominate, but they wanted to be trained and ready for the new trend. Their decision has payed off, while the other 3 photo dealers would sneer and laugh at those of us experimenting with digital, these guys would help us. The result, the other guys are long gone, and this dealer is expanding and doing great.

I can't speak for your area, but I can say in the last 18 months at many different tourist destinations the only film cameras I see are the cheap disposable cameras.

Ed
--
http://www.cbrycelea.com/photos/
 
He was saying that printing from digital is a good idea but there is
no reprint possibility once the cards are flushed, then who is piling
up the cards into a shoe box like we did for negatives !
My wife and my Mother. A $25 (US) 2 gig Extreme II holds over 1,000
six megapixel SD630 images. My Mother's SD630 is about 10 months old.
She has every image she took (minus a few obvious bad images.) The
card is about 1/3 full.

Flash cards are*much* cheaper than film. The kind of
unsophisticated users that you describe don't "shotgun" a thousand
images a shoot the way that a lot of DPreviewer regulars do. A
capacity of a thousand images can be good for several years. For
people that developed their shooting habits by the drugstore film
roll.
DO YOU THINK THOSE FLASH CARDS WILL BE READABLE 50 YEARS FROM NOW?
Why not?
Wow. You're that upset about it you have to scream.

None of us know what will be possible in 50 years, just as those
shooting film 50 years ago didn't know whether or not slide
projectors would still be in use today--though given the processes at
the time, such a belief was logical, and came true.
They barely exist now. B&H only has four models listed. And one is a specialized $8,600 digital/analog projector.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/1497/Projectors_35mm_Slide_Projectors.html

How long to you think slide projectors will be on the market? Compared to digital imaging technology?
How many 50 year old photos do you have on hand, and where are the
negatives or originals?
My family's business has photos dating back 20-50 years. A while back I scanned a bunch of them to make a web site. Most of the color prints had faded and shifted colors. I had to do lots of masking and local color corrections in order to make the images look even halfway civilized. Color prints didn't age well. Negatives, feh. Who kept negatives? (We aren't talking professional photographers here.)

Wayne
 
Clued in photographers know that photoraphy is about pictures..and
not beating the digital rules drum..film sucks...until I see a print
that matches Ilford b&w from a digital camera. I will continue to use
some film too. I encourage others to do so....
Here here! There are aesthetic qualities with film such as tonality and DR (especially B&W neg) that isn't possible with current digital technology. I'm looking into picking up a CV rangefinder to shoot with for this reason, and a few others. I haven't shot any film for about a year but I'm looking forward to getting back to basics and shelving the D50 for a bit :)

--
Cheers,
Dave.
 

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