The iPhone..

James Bond007 said:

selling my 5D to get the iPhone!

Man, this thing rocks!
--
Bond, James Bond.

Click to expand...

James Bond007:

1. But, if you are living in Europe, just wait for iPhone's arrival date in your Country ------- it will certainly have a Reception similar to what is occurring here in the USA.

2. And, by that time there could even be a few more improvements, as with all high technology products.

3. One thing is certain for me, I now have to re-think the way I have been using my iPods, as even though they have more memory, they are now somewhat "obsolete" for a lot of my needs when I want to carry just one device.

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

BRJR said:

James Bond007 said:

selling my 5D to get the iPhone!

Man, this thing rocks!
--
Bond, James Bond.

Click to expand...

James Bond007:

1. But, if you are living in Europe, just wait for iPhone's arrival
date in your Country ------- it will certainly have a Reception
similar to what is occurring here in the USA.

2. And, by that time there could even be a few more improvements, as
with all high technology products.

3. One thing is certain for me, I now have to re-think the way I
have been using my iPods, as even though they have more memory, they
are now somewhat "obsolete" for a lot of my needs when I want to
carry just one device.

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Click to expand...

James Bond007::

I forgot, the link below, has more on how iPhone is being received here in the "States":

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/dayone/fifthavenue.html

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Joe Mondello said:

Ken Leonard said:

Think secret has already dissected and taken photos of the iPhone
from the box to the tiny innards.

I will personally be waiting for iPhone 2.0. Overall I think the
iPhone is wonderful but one of my biggest gripes is the "small" 8
GB available. But then this is supposed to be a "phone"

http://thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/

Ken

Click to expand...

and here PC Mag "tortures" the iPhone

http://www.pcworld.com/video/id,545-page,1-bid,0/video.html

--
Cheers,
Joe

Click to expand...

1. Thanks for the link.

2. It's amazing how the iPhone "passed" the scratch and Direct dropping of it onto a walk-way, and still survived and continued to function !!
--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

There is a HUGE difference. Frankly I am skeptical they will ever get many of them, if not most of them. Why? Do some research and you will see the multi-touch systems have been in use for many years now for Department of Defence applications, touch-screens in general have many years of history, there have been many recent multi-touch releases in both the phone space and with Microsoft's interesting new Surface table-top computer concept. All of those have been around for years, or been in development for years. Contrary to what the ignorant might say, they are not reactions to the iPhone--it takes too long to react like that. Apple and many others have been converging on multi-touch for a while now.

While the intricacies of how it is deployed may be unique, the concept of "prior art" and the idea of something being an obvious evolution have received some recent boosts from the Supreme Court--after years of the US Patent Office foolishly handing out patents like candy. I suspect that it will be several years (as is typical) before Apple is granted patents for some of this stuff, and they are unlikely to get patents for much of it.

So, I don't think Apple has a lock on this. They may have introduced the first mass-consumer device based on multi-touch that most of us are familiar with, but do your research and you will find there are others out there and have been some for quite some time.

Regardless...Apple's use of this technology to transform the mobile phone/smart phone interface is a breakthrough and will no doubt alter the direction of the future in that industry at the very least.

If you want to learn more about the MS Surface device--which is really incredible--see this link:

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

And this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DasPNFrP24

Also check out Jeff Han's work, first publicly presented in February 2006, but in the works for years:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65

Most of the Department of Defense work is not public, but they have had multi-touch 3D systems in place for satellite image manipulation for several years. If you dig hard enough, you can find out some limited information about it.

So...expect to see multi-touch all over the place in the coming years, and not just from Apple.

Jeff
--
http://www.pbase.com/jhapeman

Jeff_WI said:

So, I don't think Apple has a lock on this.

Click to expand...

They may have a lock on some part of multi-touch though according to this article . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_advantage_iphone_multi_touch_patent/

And Apple as well have been working on this for a very long time to have so sophisticated an implementation out in the market now and in a consumer device.

Thanks for the other links, all very interesting stuff!

This is the first time it occurred to me that the mouse is just a bridge technology but not between keyboard and voice, but between keyboard and multi-touch!

--
Cheers,
Joe

Joe Mondello said:

James Bond007 said:

selling my 5D to get the iPhone!

Click to expand...

haha!

The weird thing for me is that after using the iPhone's finger-flick
interface for just a few minutes, using a mouse seems weirdly
outdated and oddly disconnected.

Fingerprints aside (and they are not really a problem at all), this
interface is redolent of the much larger (fictional) one Tom Cruise
used in "Minority Report".

It is a true advance in interface design.

--
Cheers,
Joe

Click to expand...

Joe Mondello:

And, the "Cover Flow" feature of the iPhone, is similar to what Apple says is in Leopard, where it will be a feature of the "New Leopard Finder" and will work with Spot Light, too.
--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Joe Mondello said:

Jeff_WI said:

So, I don't think Apple has a lock on this.

Click to expand...

They may have a lock on some part of multi-touch though according to
this article . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_advantage_iphone_multi_touch_patent/

And Apple as well have been working on this for a very long time to
have so sophisticated an implementation out in the market now and in
a consumer device.

Thanks for the other links, all very interesting stuff!

This is the first time it occurred to me that the mouse is just a
bridge technology but not between keyboard and voice, but between
keyboard and multi-touch!

--
Cheers,
Joe

Click to expand...

Joe Mondello:

Yes, the screen is just one of over 200 such patents, says Apple.

1. I tend to go by what Steve Jobs says; and he says that it took Apple years of innovation to come out with iPhone.

2. He also says that iPhone's technology is 5 years ahead, that it "re-invents the phone", that "Apple has over 200 patents on it, and that Apple intends to protect them".

3. More about this can be seen and heard in Steve Jobs "iPhone Keynote Address" (the second one listed), at the link, below:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf07/

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Joe Mondello said:

Jeff_WI said:

So, I don't think Apple has a lock on this.

Click to expand...

They may have a lock on some part of multi-touch though according to
this article . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_advantage_iphone_multi_touch_patent/

Click to expand...

Well, it's pretty hard to tell what impact this has, and only iSuppli has indicated that Apple owns a patent--everything else I have seen indicates that they have applied for several, but don't yet own any. That said, here's the full detail from iSuppli's site:

"Multi-touch is emerging as a popular option thanks to Apple’s upcoming iPhone and new designs such as Microsoft’s concept tabletop computer. One bottleneck to this technology may lie with Apple, which owns one of the multi-touch screen patents. It’s unclear whether Apple will be willing to accept royalty payments in exchange for use of the technology. However, this is only one patent and does not apply to all multi-touch screen technologies."

Note the last line. It's pretty key. Clearly the HTC touch phone and the MS Surface device don't impinge on Apple's patent, so I think it's unlikely Apple's patent will hurt anyone's ability to innovate--and when you see the list of technologies in play for multi-touch, it leaves a lot of options open. Again from iSuppli:

"The eight leading technologies are resistive, surface capacitive, projected capacitive, infrared, Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW), optical, bending wave and active digitizer. Along with these, there are eight other emerging touch-screen technologies, including photo sensor in pixel, polymer waveguide, distributed light, strain gauge, multi-touch, dual-force touch, laser-point activated touch and 3D touch."

The original snippet from iSuppli's article is here:

http://www.isuppli.com/marketwatch/default.asp?id=401

Interesting times are indeed ahead. I just hope Apple doesn't try to impose patent restrictions that are onerous like they did with FireWire. As a result, we ended up with USB as the dominant format, despite shortcomings relative to Firewire. I guess we will see.

Jeff

--
http://www.pbase.com/jhapeman

BRJR said:

BRJR said:

James Bond007 said:

selling my 5D to get the iPhone!

Man, this thing rocks!
--
Bond, James Bond.

Click to expand...

James Bond007:

1. But, if you are living in Europe, just wait for iPhone's arrival
date in your Country ------- it will certainly have a Reception
similar to what is occurring here in the USA.

2. And, by that time there could even be a few more improvements, as
with all high technology products.

3. One thing is certain for me, I now have to re-think the way I
have been using my iPods, as even though they have more memory, they
are now somewhat "obsolete" for a lot of my needs when I want to
carry just one device.

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Click to expand...

James Bond007::

I forgot, the link below, has more on how iPhone is being received
here in the "States":

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/dayone/fifthavenue.html

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

Click to expand...

James Bond007:

1. And, below is a link to Steve Jobs Keynote Adress about the iPhone, given nearly 6 months ago, so the just released iPhone, already has improvements, not available at that time.

2. Here's the link, it's the second presentation (quite good, provided you have Broadband internet connection and Quick Time):

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf07/

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

1. Yes, I believe we all know that you must "Apply" for Patent(s) -------- and, with iPhone, Steve Jobs says Apple has for "Over 200 of them", and that "Apple intends to protect them".

2. So, I believe we can now leave this topic and move on to something else, more meaningful and worth talking about.

--
BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

BRJR said:

1. Yes, I believe we all know that you must "Apply" for Patent(s)
-------- and, with iPhone, Steve Jobs says Apple has for "Over 200 of
them", and that "Apple intends to protect them".

Click to expand...

Look, this is all fine and good. The topic I was responding to was actually TOUCH SCREENS, and nowhere does Steve or anyone say they have applied for 200 patents on touch screens. I simply wanted to make a point that touch screens are far more prevalent than Apple and the iPhone and that it won't be just Apple moving things towards touchscreen in the computing world--others are doing it and have been doing it.

Again, as an aside, applying for and actually getting awarded patents are two totally different things. I generally think the open-source crowd is a bit nutty, but their resistance to what has become the frivolity of patents in the technology world is beginning to look like it has more merit every day. Apple applies for 200 patents on a phone? Companies like IBM and MS are now applying for dozens of patents a day (as is Apple)? Somehow I don't see this trend as encouraging innovation that will benefit all of us. But I diverge.

BRJR said:

2. So, I believe we can now leave this topic and move on to
something else, more meaningful and worth talking about.

Click to expand...

The topic in question that I was responding too was touch screens and the concept of their use/availability/etc. as a result of patents--a topic YOU brought up. At least one other person found the reply I posted interesting and enlightening. Let the group decide what is of interest in a thread. You don't dictate what is interesting or not, although you are entitled to your opinion.

Jeff
--
http://www.pbase.com/jhapeman

Jeff_WI said:

Interesting times are indeed ahead. I just hope Apple doesn't try to
impose patent restrictions that are onerous like they did with
FireWire. As a result, we ended up with USB as the dominant format,
despite shortcomings relative to Firewire. I guess we will see.

Click to expand...

(Teal'c voice) Indeed.



--
Cheers,
Joe

I don't think PATENT restrictions had anything to do with Firewire's adoption. Apple did have licensing fees, but they were pretty nominal. Firewire's chipset was simply more expensive than USB's, but, you get what you pay for.

Jeff_WI said:

"The eight leading technologies are resistive, surface capacitive,
projected capacitive, infrared, Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW), optical,
bending wave and active digitizer. Along with these, there are eight
other emerging touch-screen technologies, including photo sensor in
pixel, polymer waveguide, distributed light, strain gauge,
multi-touch, dual-force touch, laser-point activated touch and 3D
touch."

Click to expand...

Apple uses capacitive sensing for the iPhone interface. They did not develop the technology, but bought it when they purchased a company called Fingertouch several years ago. Fingertouch made touch-sensitive computer interface devices based on a technology developed during a Ph.D. thesis. I don't have the links, but I remember reading a description of the technology--it sounded like it worked by taking high-FPS "video" of the capacitance across the entire touch surface. This provides a data stream that can then be interpretted by software to determine what you're trying to do. You can see a visual representation of this on the Apple "high technology" page about the iPhone.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/

The Microsoft Surface computer uses cameras to image the touch gestures on the surface. One advantage of this over capacitance is that it can detect touches by inanimate objects as well as human flesh. This makes it better for a table interface than Apple's tech.

Keep in mind that patents typically cover specific implementations, not entire concepts. So it's entirely possible that Apple now owns (purchased) a patent(s) on the capacitive imaging technology, which they use as the basis for their multitouch interface. This obviously would not prevent Microsoft from using another technology (camera-based) for sensing gestures, and developing their own multitouch software.

Ghozer said:

Outrageous is a matter of perspective clearly. I consider $45/month
for basic service outrageous. To each his own. My current cell
phone rate plan is $20 for every three months. That's not a typo.
It's prepaid through Virgin Mobile and I don't use it very much and
consequently I'm bound only by the requirement to put in $20 every
quarter. That being said I would consider getting an iPhone if the
rate plan was around $25/month and the phone was around $250.

Click to expand...

I would venture to guess that you're not Apple's target market ;-)

I use my cell phone as my sole business line, and I've been looking for a convenient way to bring email into my portable arsenal. (I'm trying to pare down how much gear I carry with me since I travel for shoots by motorcycle quite frequently.) I never liked my wife's Blackberries. So, I'd been anxiously awaiting iPhone's arrival to give it a shot. So far, although my typing is still sub-par, the iPhone is everything I've wanted--even a competent point-and-shoot for fun snaps.

My wife may even be giving up her Blackberry this weekend to switch to the iPhone. Then we'll sign up for the family plan and save a little.

Oh boy is it nice.

First person I called remarked that the call quality was outstanding.
--
Cheers,
Joe

Yes, you read that right. I'm into day number 3 and still no activation. I have not had a working phone for 3 days as my previous carrier cut my old one off that long ago. I dont blame on Apple but ATT.

glyphcase said:

Yes, you read that right. I'm into day number 3 and still no
activation. I have not had a working phone for 3 days as my previous
carrier cut my old one off that long ago. I dont blame on Apple but
ATT.

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about that. When the activation works as it is supposed to, it takes literally 2 minutes -- as it did for me today.

Perhaps the 4th of July holiday caused some problem? Have you called or emailed ATT?
--
Cheers,
Joe

1. In Some ares, this is quite a new challenge for AT&T, Apple is causing them to experience something no phone company has had to do, so far.

2. In my area, some AT&T Stores are now in "Bigger Facilities", and working longer and harder than ever !!

glyphcase said:

Yes, you read that right. I'm into day number 3 and still no
activation. I have not had a working phone for 3 days as my previous
carrier cut my old one off that long ago. I dont blame on Apple but
ATT.

Click to expand...

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BRJR....(My cameras & lenses are listed in my profile)

I already had AT&T. My switchover was almost instantaneous. I would guess that setting up new service would take more time.

BTW, AT&T has a contractor handle the web-based registration: http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9738494-7.html