Bracketing was obviously disabled on purpose, like many features in the 300D. Cost benefits..right. As he said correctly, it very likely cost money (extremely little) to have it removed. Anybody who ever wrote a few lines of code understands that.
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DPREVIEW >> Jumping the Shark w/ D40x
- Thread starter Ken_5D
- Start date
amblepath
Leading Member
This post was about the most dumbed down camera in it's class getting a highly recemmended.
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ctransj
Senior Member
You may argue the price point of the D40/D40X but not the missing feature of the cameras, Nikon did it in purpose and believe me, they've done the studies. It's not one size fit all that's why each brand has different lines of cameras. Many people are not aware of bracketing and DOF but posts like yours steer it up. I know a lot of people want to buy a camera loaded with functions but never use them and you can have me at the first example. Bracketing, DOF, Kevin whitebalance. etc..I feel comfortable to have them all after reading many complains about missing this and missing that features. Honestly, can you go back and ask A100 users if they ever use these features?
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notegra
Well-known member
In all fairness, what makes "bracketing" a requirement for an entry level camera? It's not an entry level camera if it doesn't have bracketing? Sounds like if it's got bracketing, its targeted for the more advanced user like yourself. I love bracketing.....but I don't see a lot of amatuers saying, "where's my bracketing?" Personally, I wouldn't purchase this camera because I'm not looking for an entry level dslr.
Also, you can manually bracket by changing the EV....bothersome yes, but possible with a tripod =]
I thought the review was justified.
notegra
Well-known member
ken, you care too much for exp. bracketing. Yes it is cheap of Nikon to not include it because it doesnt cost anything to add it in. They already have it in all their other bodies....but that is Nikon's fault and that is the design they went with. If you are fimiliar with your camera, you will generally know when it will blow highlights, or under expose....check the histogram and adjust accordingly.....bracketing isnt that big of a deal. You can get around it. You can still produce fantastic images without bracketing. If anything, just shoot raw and change exp. that way?
about growing with your camz.....you could use the camera for years and years and not grow out of it. Years later, you could still produce amazing pictures and most likely improve the more you shoot with it...like any cams. The only trouble i see is that it may be hard to shoot HDR pictures....no big deal cause not everyone shoots for HDR.
10 mp
great jpgs
easy to use
nice build qual for the $$
great lcd
good kit lens
but it should be cheaper......d40 price, but d40x value.
about growing with your camz.....you could use the camera for years and years and not grow out of it. Years later, you could still produce amazing pictures and most likely improve the more you shoot with it...like any cams. The only trouble i see is that it may be hard to shoot HDR pictures....no big deal cause not everyone shoots for HDR.
10 mp
great jpgs
easy to use
nice build qual for the $$
great lcd
good kit lens
but it should be cheaper......d40 price, but d40x value.
JamesArnoldhome
Well-known member
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Anyone who has written a couple of macros thinks that. Anyone who has developed an application for production (or in this case a sophisticated camera for production and comercial release) understands differently.
While I am sure that the engineers that create these cameras do everything they can to re-use as much as they can in each subsequent model I garuntee you it costs less not include a feature than it does to include it.
To be fair I agree that marketing probably wieghed in on the decision when they were adding the pro's and cons of each feature. I just disgree with the notion that the cost not to implement cost them more or didn't save money.
David Garth
Leading Member
I'm glad to now know that bracketing is a "basic feature."
Exposure bracketing would be used by very few people who are likely to buy this camera.
I'm a pro and I never use it. Bracketing is a throwback to the film era. With histogram review I can instantly correct the exposure by just the right amount with the exposure +-; why would I want to have the camera take one over and one under (or more) by a set amount when I can see and change the exposure the right amount in less than 2 seconds?
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David Garth
Exposure bracketing would be used by very few people who are likely to buy this camera.
I'm a pro and I never use it. Bracketing is a throwback to the film era. With histogram review I can instantly correct the exposure by just the right amount with the exposure +-; why would I want to have the camera take one over and one under (or more) by a set amount when I can see and change the exposure the right amount in less than 2 seconds?
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David Garth
PhotoTraveler
Forum Pro
That's how you differentiate products.
Lets go back to KM. When they made the 5D, they removed features from the 7D that were purely software. Was that bad of them? They had to go in and change code base to do it, it took effort to remove features, but they did it for the simple matter that it differentiates the models, it gives the 7D options the 5D doesn't have, thus giving the 7D more value.
Lets go back to KM. When they made the 5D, they removed features from the 7D that were purely software. Was that bad of them? They had to go in and change code base to do it, it took effort to remove features, but they did it for the simple matter that it differentiates the models, it gives the 7D options the 5D doesn't have, thus giving the 7D more value.
josh007
Senior Member
no text
Geeze Joseph!! We are only talking about bloody cameras here for pete's sake. That is just totally out of order.
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hunk
Veteran Member
lighten up, it's probably a funny remark, not more, not less. Humour with sarcasm, it may not be your type but please do not take these things too seriously.
btw, we are only talking about camera's here? I think it's more about the thrown mud.
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Ken_5D
Forum Pro
nikon has a great system and I am sure some buy the D40s thinking they are buying into that legacy and finding lots of lens options and pretty basic features are removed just to keep the camera from any cross over sales for the D80.
I would ask why is the D80 in need of so much protection.
Any realy inidicaton that the Sony is not selling well? Do you know what the projections and goals for Sony was..I would think #3 in Dslr sales with just one model for the 3nd half of 2006 says a lot.
Lowering price mid level in a products life is typical sony nothing new here.
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Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
Ken_5D
Forum Pro
I am not going to apologize to Phil for sharing my impressions of that every camera getting "Highly Recommended" Make the rating worthless. and that that affects the value of the site.
If a Camera the costs more than than others in the same market, has less features and pretty comparable features in my mind that warrants a "Recommended" That is my opinion and I am sharing it.
Even if I am wrong about the D40x... I am not wrong that every camera getting a highest rating makes that rating worthless.
As to all the accusation etc. I have owned a Fuji, more Canons than I can remember, and two Nikon that I have nothing but praise for. It would be nice If Sony builds some cameras that I can upgrade to so I can keep my lenses KM lenses. But I am more than willing to start from scratch If Sony messes up.
I would tend to lean towards Canon.. but I would at the point re-eval the Nikon as they have a wonderful system.. I will not be looking at anything D40ish...
As long as people know what they are getting I wish them the best I am sure it is great stripped down Nikon... but I don't think it is one that can grow with people as much as others.
That is all I am saying... unlike others on the last days I would not call the D40 junk.. just a design with too much marketing and just a bit too little user choice.
I have close friends that love their D80s and I wouldn't think about suggesting they have anything but a great camera.
I can take some solid debate and even some harsh words related to my opinions easily....I can be opinionated and get into the heat of it and am more than willing to take it.
But For the last few rude name callers... get help... no need to call people rude names, insult people you don't even know (family... clients etc.) to try to punish an opinion you don't agree with.
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Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
If a Camera the costs more than than others in the same market, has less features and pretty comparable features in my mind that warrants a "Recommended" That is my opinion and I am sharing it.
Even if I am wrong about the D40x... I am not wrong that every camera getting a highest rating makes that rating worthless.
As to all the accusation etc. I have owned a Fuji, more Canons than I can remember, and two Nikon that I have nothing but praise for. It would be nice If Sony builds some cameras that I can upgrade to so I can keep my lenses KM lenses. But I am more than willing to start from scratch If Sony messes up.
I would tend to lean towards Canon.. but I would at the point re-eval the Nikon as they have a wonderful system.. I will not be looking at anything D40ish...
As long as people know what they are getting I wish them the best I am sure it is great stripped down Nikon... but I don't think it is one that can grow with people as much as others.
That is all I am saying... unlike others on the last days I would not call the D40 junk.. just a design with too much marketing and just a bit too little user choice.
I have close friends that love their D80s and I wouldn't think about suggesting they have anything but a great camera.
I can take some solid debate and even some harsh words related to my opinions easily....I can be opinionated and get into the heat of it and am more than willing to take it.
But For the last few rude name callers... get help... no need to call people rude names, insult people you don't even know (family... clients etc.) to try to punish an opinion you don't agree with.
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Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
evshrug2
Leading Member
Well, BESIDES saying something smart alec-ey like dark areas show more noise, and an underexposed image would have darker patches (Small quibble, I know), I just really had hoped you'd compare NR on/ NR off detail and noise. That's a useful option that many people (including you?) have been asking for. Probably as important as compairing noise levels at different ISOs. Maybe you could do a split-crop showing on/off NR, like you have the regular/lightened crops to show noise? Speaking for myself, I'd like that.
Of course, this is moot IF the NR adjustment is "some" and "more" like the Evolt-500 option. Even so, your side-by side comparisons of a persistant, specially planned scene makes a better test than what I'd cook up.
Anyway, thanks for doing reviews at all, can't wait to see those reviews that have been up-on-blocks in the front yard!
Ev
lovingtheview
Leading Member
Dear Ken5D:
I have no feelings about whether the DPReview tests favor Canon/Nikon over other brands. However, your frustration with the apparent neglect of other brands seeking to move up on the two giants in the dslr ranks, although I understand your discomfort with it, is based on some unavoidable realities. I am reluctant to enter the brand loyalty fray, but I will offer a few observations still, knowing that Armageddon might ensue.
There are currently three dslr companies which stand, as dslr brands (without regard to the merits of a particular model), heads above all other competitors in consumer and pro esteem and acceptance. Those brands are, unequivocally, Canon, Nikon, and Pentax. Justifications for this statement are as follows:
-All of the top three have for some years now produced a series, not just a model or two, of superlative dslr cameras, which have not only achieved high esteem, but have dominated sales in their price classes.
-Not only do these three companies have a deep heritage of producing superlative models, but they continue to produce models of continuing excellence and consumer/pro esteem, and purchase rates. In other words, the three dominators of recent times are still handily dominating the dslr market.
-There are a number of fine contenders for a place in the top-three pantheon.
-Five viable ones are Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Samsung.
-The standing of all-model unit sales, as compiled by DPReview hits, or any company or survey whatsoever, is only marginally related to the dslr arena. For example, several of the top 20 brands of interest from today’s DPR chart show:
-canon: 33.5%
-nikon: 13.5
-sony: 12.6
-panasonic: 7.9
-fujifilm: 7.6
-olympus: 7.4
-pentax: 3.0
-samsung: 3.0
-If we could show dslr market share only, I think any reasonably astute reader of this forum would know that Canon and Nikon together dramatically dominate dslr unit sales and consumer/pro esteem such that all other comers are RADICALLY behind the two dominant companies. (I do not cite here actual numbers, nor do I know them for today, but their rough values have not likely changed significantly in recent months.)
-Having said the above, I have yet to make any reflection on a non-Canon, Nikon, Pentax model’s excellence, which I address next.
-It is EASILY possible that a new dslr from Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, or Samsung, introduced tomorrow, could be better than a comparable leading model from Canon, Nikon. It is even quite possible that in the same way, a new flagship intro from S/P/O/F/S, could be BETTER THAN the 1DSII or the D2X.
-By contrast, it is exceedingly unlikely that a new 3-5-model lineup from any of S/P/O/F/S, is going to redefine and set new standards for the price category.
-I have more than twenty years experience as an industry member competing against Sony and Panasonic. Both have frighteningly good R&D capabilities, with plenty of bucks to support their science and creativity. Could Sony or Panasonic put a foot on the neck of a Canon or Nikon? Yes, on Nikon in a heartbeat, and possibly even on Canon, if they felt the need to, and wanted to pay the price, which I think is most unlikely.
-Nevertheless, to be blunt about it, C/N/P are dominant because their dslr product lines have EARNED their status, and continue to earn top status. These “earned” positions show what industry and niches (dslr) C/N/P intend to make their living in. So far, there is no strong indicator that Sony, Panasonic, or Samsung yearn for a big dslr share.
-Other contender companies who have the capital and r&d capability to challenge the top three in dslr’s are: Casio, Epson, JVC, Sanyo, Kyocera, Kodak, HP. But would you bet a nickel that any of these companies are interested in pouring money into the dslr market against two wildly dominant king’s of the hill? I don’t think you would.
-Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung, all having formidable video capabilities, COULD wield a redoubtable threat to C/N. But here’s the rub: No matter how good the Alpha A100 is, it is a country mile from doing radical damage to the N/C lineup as of today. If I could only buy one dslr for the near future, instead of betting on a Sony model because it is a superlative single product, or because Sony is on the march, I would, time and again, buy without risk, and get a Canon, Nikon, or Pentax, each of which have put their money on this niche.
-Sony’s time in the dslr sunshine may come, but the ground is not trembling yet.
Sincerely,
Lovingtheview
I have no feelings about whether the DPReview tests favor Canon/Nikon over other brands. However, your frustration with the apparent neglect of other brands seeking to move up on the two giants in the dslr ranks, although I understand your discomfort with it, is based on some unavoidable realities. I am reluctant to enter the brand loyalty fray, but I will offer a few observations still, knowing that Armageddon might ensue.
There are currently three dslr companies which stand, as dslr brands (without regard to the merits of a particular model), heads above all other competitors in consumer and pro esteem and acceptance. Those brands are, unequivocally, Canon, Nikon, and Pentax. Justifications for this statement are as follows:
-All of the top three have for some years now produced a series, not just a model or two, of superlative dslr cameras, which have not only achieved high esteem, but have dominated sales in their price classes.
-Not only do these three companies have a deep heritage of producing superlative models, but they continue to produce models of continuing excellence and consumer/pro esteem, and purchase rates. In other words, the three dominators of recent times are still handily dominating the dslr market.
-There are a number of fine contenders for a place in the top-three pantheon.
-Five viable ones are Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Samsung.
-The standing of all-model unit sales, as compiled by DPReview hits, or any company or survey whatsoever, is only marginally related to the dslr arena. For example, several of the top 20 brands of interest from today’s DPR chart show:
-canon: 33.5%
-nikon: 13.5
-sony: 12.6
-panasonic: 7.9
-fujifilm: 7.6
-olympus: 7.4
-pentax: 3.0
-samsung: 3.0
-If we could show dslr market share only, I think any reasonably astute reader of this forum would know that Canon and Nikon together dramatically dominate dslr unit sales and consumer/pro esteem such that all other comers are RADICALLY behind the two dominant companies. (I do not cite here actual numbers, nor do I know them for today, but their rough values have not likely changed significantly in recent months.)
-Having said the above, I have yet to make any reflection on a non-Canon, Nikon, Pentax model’s excellence, which I address next.
-It is EASILY possible that a new dslr from Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, or Samsung, introduced tomorrow, could be better than a comparable leading model from Canon, Nikon. It is even quite possible that in the same way, a new flagship intro from S/P/O/F/S, could be BETTER THAN the 1DSII or the D2X.
-By contrast, it is exceedingly unlikely that a new 3-5-model lineup from any of S/P/O/F/S, is going to redefine and set new standards for the price category.
-I have more than twenty years experience as an industry member competing against Sony and Panasonic. Both have frighteningly good R&D capabilities, with plenty of bucks to support their science and creativity. Could Sony or Panasonic put a foot on the neck of a Canon or Nikon? Yes, on Nikon in a heartbeat, and possibly even on Canon, if they felt the need to, and wanted to pay the price, which I think is most unlikely.
-Nevertheless, to be blunt about it, C/N/P are dominant because their dslr product lines have EARNED their status, and continue to earn top status. These “earned” positions show what industry and niches (dslr) C/N/P intend to make their living in. So far, there is no strong indicator that Sony, Panasonic, or Samsung yearn for a big dslr share.
-Other contender companies who have the capital and r&d capability to challenge the top three in dslr’s are: Casio, Epson, JVC, Sanyo, Kyocera, Kodak, HP. But would you bet a nickel that any of these companies are interested in pouring money into the dslr market against two wildly dominant king’s of the hill? I don’t think you would.
-Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung, all having formidable video capabilities, COULD wield a redoubtable threat to C/N. But here’s the rub: No matter how good the Alpha A100 is, it is a country mile from doing radical damage to the N/C lineup as of today. If I could only buy one dslr for the near future, instead of betting on a Sony model because it is a superlative single product, or because Sony is on the march, I would, time and again, buy without risk, and get a Canon, Nikon, or Pentax, each of which have put their money on this niche.
-Sony’s time in the dslr sunshine may come, but the ground is not trembling yet.
Sincerely,
Lovingtheview
Imants Zudans
Member
True. Those are the only situations where I use it. But we are people who are buying D40 really going to buy a tripod, photoshop, learn blending? Are they going to shoot weddings as the original poster noted? Not D40 users I know. I think many here want D80 to be have a D40 price. Admit it. That is what this thread is about. If D40 would have everything D80 does, why would anybody go for D80 or D200?
IZ
Yes, you can, but be VERY carefull!!!, because the slightest pressure on any button or dial would cause the camera to move just a little (unless you have a really bad@ss tripod) and then, goodbye sharpness!
I've tried it before, I prefer bracketing a thousand times.
In fact, one of the first things I did when I got a p&S with exposure bracketing, was to go out and try an hdr pic of my neighbourhood.
I've tried it before, I prefer bracketing a thousand times.
In fact, one of the first things I did when I got a p&S with exposure bracketing, was to go out and try an hdr pic of my neighbourhood.
Wow, I thought we were not allowed to post things like this.
You can have a dissagreeing opinion, but to go out and just plainly insult the people in a forum, because you don't agree with them??
And I thought this was about cameras.....
You can have a dissagreeing opinion, but to go out and just plainly insult the people in a forum, because you don't agree with them??
And I thought this was about cameras.....
sandy b
Veteran Member
Actually, its original MRSP was indeed 999.00, and that is a fact. I briefly thought about buying one. Phils review lists the mrsp as 999. Your right, facts suck.
I have bought the R1, 828, 707, and a couple of smaller Sonys. Not one of them dropped like a rock the way the A100 did. Go back and read some posts about the early adopters expressing their disbelief it could fall so fast. BTW, my old R1 is worth more used on ebay than a used A100. The A100 totally failed to meet Sonys hopes, as far as sales numbers. It started hot, but tailed off real fast, there were way to many new dslrs out at the same time. BTW, I am not nocking it, its a fine camera, and have always liked sony cams.
They will do just fine no matter what, they have very deep pockets, and they and canon will dominate the p&s for some time. But if the new dslr camera line up does not sell well, they may spin it off. Remember, they predicted the 1 or 2 spot for themselves, and so far they have done this....
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=23162031
I really want sony to do well, as well as Pentax, oly, etc. Competion is great. But right now its a two horse race, by a huge amount.
Take a look at Peter's photographs, he seems able to produce fantastic work no matter what the camera or its limitations and from what I have seen around the web, the D40, D40x, 400d and others all take fantastic photos and you can't go wrong with any of them
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