Camera Phones vs. DSLR...which is better?

OK, brain trust, give me 5 fundamental technical reasons why DSLRs
are better than a mere camera phone in terms of image quality.
Here is a running start.

1. Larger pixel size = better dynamic range
2. Better optics (NOT bigger optics)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
This is ludicrous .... there are 100 fundamental technical reasons
why DSLR's, (and hi-end P&S's), are better than we can ever expect
"phones" to offer.

I mean it begins with simply more "options" (more BUTTONS/KNOBS).
Wth all due respect, more buttons is hardly fundamental/technical. In fact, with a reconfigurable display, (think iphone) the buttons might be even more convenient in a cell phone.
I have made several "phone" positive comment in this thread ... and
I indeed want the best camera quality available from my "phone".

BUT ... I also want SMALL size; and don't want it cluttered with
extra buttons/knobs. That is the forte of more true cameras.

I am satisfied with a useful Zoom range (w/ 28mm start),
Auto-Focus, and a (useful) Flash. (and short shutter lag)
This is mostly optics. Short shutter lag is not fundamental. It is just related to power usage.
It is like a cowboy that always packs his "pistol" when he goes to
town .... but for real hunt'n ... it is never gonna replace his
rifle/shotgun.
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
 
OK, brain trust, give me 5 fundamental technical reasons why DSLRs
are better than a mere camera phone in terms of image quality.
Here is a running start.

1. Larger pixel size = better dynamic range
2. Better optics (NOT bigger optics)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
It's early, but I'll add OVF.
ASsuming OVF means optical view finder, surely you don't consider that fundamental? But I agree it is not normally found on cell phone cameras.
Let's also try wider lenses. Try using a phone camera to get the
effective 15mm I get off my Pentax *istD and a 10-20mm Sigma lens.
This is already covered in 2. I have always found it difficult to shove a telephoto lens into my pants pocket.
I'm not really sure what camera phones have as features, so I'll
leave it there for someone else.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
"shoot" we want it to really shoot! Scre. cameras! ;-)
It is like a cowboy that always packs his "pistol" when he goes to
town .... but for real hunt'n ... it is never gonna replace his
rifle/shotgun.
Don't know much about hunting do you? Never say never. I've got
friends who have killed elk and bison with pistols. Granted, it's
not an every day thing, but it is done.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
--
'It ain't what they call you, It's what you answer to!'
F3, Contax G1, FZ5, D40, SD1000
18-55, 70-300VR, 28mmf/2.8, 50mmf/1.4, 43-86mmf/3.5, 105mmf/2.5, i9900
 
Quite easy actually, the Camera Phone obviously!
I am yet to come across ANY dslr that can make/receive phone calls yet...
 
and Better AF and Exposure systems?
RAW capabilities (and enough buffer for that)?
Many cell phones (of the near future) are moving away from a ssytem on a chip (SOC) approach where the image processing is done on the image sensor, and instead, a secondary processor used for image processing. That would include AF and exposure. The memory goes along with that, and its cost is always dropping.

The SOC is being "rejected" because the chip area required for complex processing eats into the ultimate size of the camera module itself. SOCs are far from dead though, esp. because it makes camera-phone design easier and generally less expensive.

-Eric
 
OK, brain trust, give me 5 fundamental technical reasons why DSLRs
are better than a mere camera phone in terms of image quality.
Here is a running start.

1. Larger pixel size = better dynamic range
2. Better optics (NOT bigger optics)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

-Eric
3. Because the bride will shed more tears if you shoot her wedding pics with a cell phone than if you shoot Bambi with a pistol.
 
If someone doesn't know why a DSLR is better than a cell at taking pictures, then explaining it is pretty much a waste of time.

Glenn NK
Victoria, BC

30D + 24/105 + 17/55 + 100 f/2.8 macro + Tokina 12/24 + Kenko tubes + 500D closeup lens + Manfrotto 486RC/190 + Lightroom
 
If someone doesn't know why a DSLR is better than a cell at taking
pictures, then explaining it is pretty much a waste of time.
Glenn, that is funny, given my background. I was hoping to uncover some fundamental issues from the brain trust out there.

Put another way, what is stopping us (those of us in the camera module business) from making a DSLR-quality camera phone?

Do you have any useful input?
-Eric
 
OK, brain trust, give me 5 fundamental technical reasons why DSLRs
are better than a mere camera phone in terms of image quality.
Here is a running start.

1. Larger pixel size = better dynamic range
2. Better optics (NOT bigger optics)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
It's early, but I'll add OVF.
ASsuming OVF means optical view finder, surely you don't consider
that fundamental? But I agree it is not normally found on cell
phone cameras.
Yeah, I do consider it fundamental. It is the result of the camera being an SLR. It gives a direct view of about 95% of the scene shot. It doesn't pixelate.
Let's also try wider lenses. Try using a phone camera to get the
effective 15mm I get off my Pentax *istD and a 10-20mm Sigma lens.
This is already covered in 2. I have always found it difficult to
shove a telephoto lens into my pants pocket.
BS. Bigger optics=wider optics? Or anythiing else you want it to. Nuts to that.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
not for those of us luddites who refuse to get cell phones
That seems to have no bearing on the previous statement, which concerned 'the majority of consumers'. I think it's safe to say that someone who refuses to get a cell phone is not a majority consumer.

--

 
Yeah, I do consider it fundamental. It is the result of the camera
being an SLR. It gives a direct view of about 95% of the scene
shot. It doesn't pixelate.
OK, I agree.
Let's also try wider lenses. Try using a phone camera to get the
effective 15mm I get off my Pentax *istD and a 10-20mm Sigma lens.
This is already covered in 2. I have always found it difficult to
shove a telephoto lens into my pants pocket.
BS. Bigger optics=wider optics? Or anythiing else you want it to.
Nuts to that.
I added an extra zero to each of your numbers (e.g. 150mm). Can't explain why my brain did that. But anyway, this still goes in the category of better optics for DSLRs. It is hard to get a decent lens made for $2, even at 3 or 4 elements.
 
Not sure how fundamental are these, but here is my try:

3. No live preview and no video mode in DSLR allows better sensor design for stills. On the other hand, in cell-phone these things are a must.

4. DSLRs have better thermal design, keeping the sensor colder. Cell phones are crammed and run hotter.

5. Most people nuorish their DSLRs, while cell phones are mostly kept in pant pockets. Thus cell phone lens is full of smadges and dirt. Peoples habits are impossible to change, i.e. fundamental.
 
You know what is funny? A couple of days before the article came out I was killing some time in the mall and saw a new electronics store been installed. The owner and his staff where there acomodating the merchandise and whatnot.

I enter the store and ask for their digital cameras, he (the owner) explain that most of them are still on storage elsewhere, but there a few already in the store. Among these few there was this tinny, and I do mean TINNY, little 3MP point and shoot from Phillips. Looked amazing and the prize was almost too good to be true. I asked the owner for a test drive of the camera, so I turn it´s flash off and take some images on the mall corridor.

Back into the store we downloaded the images to their office computer. Let me tell you, the first thing that came to my mind was "this is really BAD image quallity, a Cell Phone could take better pictures".

So yes, if the trend continues not far into the future cell phones will be stealling serious sales from the low end point and shoots. Then we will be left with SLRs, serious compacts and cell phones, and nothing else.
Which will be interesting, as we've already seen the almost
extinction of the pro-sumer camera, I wonder if phone cams will
cause the almost extinction of the point and shoot consumer cam, at
least the lower end models.
 
Not sure how fundamental are these, but here is my try:

3. No live preview and no video mode in DSLR allows better sensor
design for stills. On the other hand, in cell-phone these things
are a must.
I'm not sure video mode design and DSLR still picture design requires some trade off although it is true that large pixels imply large capacitance which implies more power. DSLR designs do not usually have on-chip ADC so perhaps this is part of a trade off. It is harder and requires more power to get high res. ADCs to run at video rates, although 30x100k pixels = 3 Mpix/s is hardly video rate.
4. DSLRs have better thermal design, keeping the sensor colder.
Cell phones are crammed and run hotter.
So, you are thinking less dark current I suppose. Camera modules inside cell phones dont get that hot, but hotter than a DLSR I suppose. Unless that special black body is sitting in the sun....Anyway, dark current is not important for many apps, and can be subtracted out in many others.
5. Most people nuorish their DSLRs, while cell phones are mostly
kept in pant pockets. Thus cell phone lens is full of smadges and
dirt. Peoples habits are impossible to change, i.e. fundamental.
Heh. This is part of the optics issue I guess. I thought oyu were going to say something else. Like, drop your DSLR onto concrete and kiss it good bye. Drop your cell phone/camera phone and complain about the finish being scratched....

Thanks for the good thoughts.
Eric
 
You know what is funny? A couple of days before the article came
out I was killing some time in the mall and saw a new electronics
store been installed. The owner and his staff where there
acomodating the merchandise and whatnot.

I enter the store and ask for their digital cameras, he (the owner)
explain that most of them are still on storage elsewhere, but there
a few already in the store. Among these few there was this tinny,
and I do mean TINNY, little 3MP point and shoot from Phillips.
Looked amazing and the prize was almost too good to be true. I
asked the owner for a test drive of the camera, so I turn it´s
flash off and take some images on the mall corridor.

Back into the store we downloaded the images to their office
computer. Let me tell you, the first thing that came to my mind was
"this is really BAD image quallity, a Cell Phone could take better
pictures".

So yes, if the trend continues not far into the future cell phones
will be stealling serious sales from the low end point and shoots.
Then we will be left with SLRs, serious compacts and cell phones,
and nothing else.
If cell phones replace some lower-end cameras, I see that as a good thing. I would hope that buyers would be less likely to think that their cameras are "equivalent" to higher end; and thus may actually be more-likely to "purchase" (high-end) photography.

In other words ... right now they buy a "camera" and then think they don't need a pro any more .... but if they buy a "phone" (albeit with camera) ... they may not expect what they may have expected before.
Which will be interesting, as we've already seen the almost
extinction of the pro-sumer camera, I wonder if phone cams will
cause the almost extinction of the point and shoot consumer cam, at
least the lower end models.
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
 

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