guesses on sensor sizes in new Alphas?

what are your guesses on the sensor sizes in the upcoming new alphas? or is there even some clear evidence out there?
my guesses:
semi-pro model: APS-C
pro-model: FF

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1.1-1.3x for Flagship (9 class) 12-14mp
1.3-1.5x for highly advance amateur(7 class) 10-12mp

But it also depend on the new Bionz chipset. How effective it is to supress noise in ISO 3200 and still preserving the detail.

1.3 flagship, the 9D

1.5 7D replacement
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Mark

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I beleive that the latest development in the strategy and technology of sensrs wll be implemented in these two DSLR's:

a. The 7-grade DSLR shal benefit from the high-capture-rate technology SONY implemented in some new P&S, probabely a 10-12MP sensor capanle of 10FPS (per single stroke of the shutter).

b. The 9-grade DSLR shall show the fruits of SONY-KODAK collaboration in sensor technology - a 20~24 MP almost FF (1.2~1.1) sensor. This camera is intended for studio and fashuon photography wher top optics, huge enlarments and excelent colors are mostly required. I think this DSLR is amed to grab the leftovers from the medium format applications.
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ZeevK
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Hard to see this happen. If Sony pack 20-24mp even on FF format it won't have decent ISO800 noise. I think Sony need to make the dSLR a more overall camera so it need to offer at least acceptable ISO3200.

For studio and fashion that need very large enlargement maybe a medium format that offer 30-39mp is more suitable. I doubt that 9 class wll surpass 16mp like flagship canon. As long as Sony make it half price of Canon's ($3k-4k) with same performance then it will sell.

ZeevK said:

b. The 9-grade DSLR shall show the fruits of SONY-KODAK
collaboration in sensor technology - a 20~24 MP almost FF (1.2~1.1)
sensor. This camera is intended for studio and fashuon photography
wher top optics, huge enlarments and excelent colors are mostly
required. I think this DSLR is amed to grab the leftovers from the
medium format applications.
--
ZeevK
http://www.pbase.com/zeevk

Click to expand...

Tech marches on... There was a great article in Digital Photo pro last month dealing with sensors... A Canon spokeman says he believes a noiseless 6400 speed is possible in the future with CMOS tech. Who knows if that is true but 10 years ago, most of us could not imagine the death of film either.

As tech develops and matures and further designs become available the price of older tech declines while the latest and greatest exceeds what we have or imagine today.

I am sure Sony is aware of noise issues by now. They are working apparently on CMOS sensors and will not only be able to feature new tech in thier line but also seel them to Nikon, Pentax and others. I can't imagine the A10 being any less that 12MP while the A1 will definately be 16MP or higher... A lot can develop in a matter of months and because more MP meant more noise in the past, it does not mean that it has to be the result in the future. Just some thoughts.

To go above 10mp, you really have to start considering larger sensors. Technology does march on, and someday they may find a way to reduce noise in semiconductors. When and if that happens is not knowable. From a practical point of view, there is a know solution today: larger sensors to increase signal to noise ratios. Aperture rules not only in lens, but also with photo diodes. True there are issues with corner falloff, chromatic aberrations at the extreme perimeters, lens resolving abilities, etc. But these are known quantifiable issues whose solutions have been in development and refinement for several years now.

Larger sensors are no longer a technical issue, but a business issue - finding the proper mix of investment, cost, pricing and volumes that allow a sustainable and profitable product line.

The market exists today and requires a solution using abilities of today. That is the only way companies can plan their product roadmaps. One can't put on their road map a mock-up camera with a plan that it will re-main a mock-up for the forseeable future until some day a magical solution will arise out of our labs. People lose their jobs for doing stuff like that.

Look at the aborted attempt by Pentax and Contax and finally Kodak. Projects that remain on the "prototype" stage too long get killed because there is no end in sight. The Contax disaster was a "hail Mary" to get it out there despite not having the solution in hand. They sure did beat Canon to the punch, didn't they? Unfortunately, the magical technology that they were hoping for from Phillips' R&D didn't arrive in time to save it.

Canon on the other hand played it right. They made the right tradeoffs of cost, investment, pricing, etc. so that the product was sustainable. Yes, we were all shocked by the initial price of the 1Ds. It was a necessary part of their plan. That is why they stand alone in the FF segment and are knocking on the doors of the medium format segment. And their plans are to migrate this downward into the 5D class. This is only possible because they planned it to be sustainable. And we as consumers will benefit from all this brilliant strategy with more choices. Sometimes, we just have to be patient - Rome wasn't built in a day.

Have you looked at the info for Sony's new 60FPS parallel-offloading CMOS chip with individual A-D converters for each row?

This promises extremely low noise, I mean a level that has not been seen before, not to mention the possibility to sample multiple frames for sampled noise-reduction (similar to dark frame NR). So all things may be possible in all size sensors with new technology that may be available sooner than we think.

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For the semi pro an improved 10MP sensor with much lower noise and the pro version, full frame 19MP. Se the huge prism housing on the mock up.

Jerry

A friend pointed me to Ken Rockwell's site:

D3X latest rumour from PMA - Full-frame 1.0x sensor, 19 MP, 5 FPS, $7,999 MSRP

Could this be an indication of what might also be in the pro Sony dslr?

Yep, that's why and the prism housing is very large, too large for an ASP size sensor. The Pop Photo artical also mentioned SSS for the semi pro version but not for the pro model.

Jerry

The card on the shelf that stated some design elements for the Pro model also stated SSS inside.

mark victor said:

1.3 flagship, the 9D

1.5 7D replacement
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Mark

Click to expand...

Mark,

Is there enough difference between 1.3 and 1.5 to make a difference? Why not just go to 1.1? Wouldn't they be competing with Canon and therefore need at least 1.1 to claim "full frame"?

I have the 11-18mm KM lens...so I doubt I'll be upgrading to FF anytime soon. Well, that and the price. ;-)

Greg

Maybe a FF with SSS?

nm66photog said:

Maybe a FF with SSS?

Click to expand...

I'd surmise that SSS is a given. The argument for 1.1x vs. 1.0x seems to be that it may help enable SSS by allowing more space for electronics and/or reduce vignetting otherwise caused by the sensor possibly moving near to or past the edge of the image circle.

I recall reading some other reasons in other threads for 1.1x that make it an acceptable compromise to an "official" FF.

Greg

Do we have image circle info on the new Sony lenses which are FF? CZ and G? I would guess that the CZ's cover just fine. Perhaps it could be an FF sensor and only have some coverage problems with only older Minolta lenses?

barri said:

what are your guesses on the sensor sizes in the upcoming new
alphas? or is there even some clear evidence out there?
my guesses:
semi-pro model: APS-C

Click to expand...

I've been sitting here with my 7D comparing the photos to it. This camera appears to be a reworked 7D, virtually the same in many ways. Mostly changes in top plate controls and removal of a redundent control. The critical ergonomics is still there. While the 7D size could hold up to a FF sensor (it's fairly large by 35mm film standards) I think it will be a APS sensor. Probably a much improved sensor compared the that in the A100, with new, improved electronics. I don't care between 10 or 12MP, it could even be lower and not bother me but it's probably one of those. Color and noise are more important than MP to me.

This is intended to be the 7D replacement we have been looking for. Hope it holds up to it's visual promise.

barri said:

pro-model: FF

Click to expand...

My first impression here was they were trying to imitate the look of a medium format SLR. That would imply a larger chip and more MP. However, another thought to why no built in flash is that the viewfinder will be designed to be removable and interchangeable with other optional viewfinders. That would be a pro feature, and would be attractive to many of us.

The pro model will, almost for sure, be way out of the price range I'm willing to spend. And in some ways it will be a simplified model compared to the 7 series, something Minolta did too. I'm actually glad this model was included, it will be the focus on the demand for highly expensive stuff for what's often specialized uses and save the mid model from that pressure.

Since this model still has antishake, and really is not that much different from the core of the 7D body, the photos don't lock it into any particular sensor. One can wish whatever they want, and in time (a year or more) we will know.

Walt

Full frame, with IS for the top model.

I couldn't care less if the corners of the image vignette a bit, at a particular occasion if it is required to compensate for camera shake. And I would have the full-frame benefits for all shots.

Given large aperture primes and in-body IS, I have little use for low-noise at extremely high ISO, and would rather have high resolution and the quality benefits and cropping options it gives for all my shots as opposed to the narrow niche benefits that a low resolution sensor would give.

So - FF with in-body IS, and very high resolution is what I will abandon Canon for.

ZeevK said:

The 9-grade DSLR shall show the fruits of SONY-KODAK
collaboration in sensor technology - a 20~24 MP almost FF (1.2~1.1)
sensor. This camera is intended for studio and fashuon photography
wher top optics, huge enlarments and excelent colors are mostly
required. I think this DSLR is amed to grab the leftovers from the
medium format applications.

Click to expand...

You may be spot-on here.

Sony and Zeiss already have a considerable stronghold amongst fashion and studio photographers, since the Cybershot 727 and 828 had many followers here and Zeiss optics too via generations of Hasselblads and Contax'es.

I am sure, Sony is aware of this and they will see to take advantage of this.

I would guess that the flagship will be fullframe, why else would they be selling lenses with the old 35mm lengths on em?

Based on the recent evidence that Sony doesn't know when to stop cramming MP in (new 12mp compact), I would assume they will do their best to make an impact with a rather high MP. (even thou most people say that more MP isn't important, I bet the first thing everyone reads when a new camera spec is out, is the MP. Its in our nature; bigger and better, etc...)

The 7D replacement could be anything. Almost certainly a MP advance, likely to 12mp. Probably 1.5x crop as something users looking to buy the next model up from the A100 will be stranded by their APS lenses otherwise.

The only thing I'm really curious about with these bodies will be ISO cleanness, and if they have features like PC linkup, liveview, HDR, sensor cleaning, Highspeed crop, etc...