What my Oly CAN do...

AE
Excellent, excellent, excellent.
All plooph wants to do is argue. That's where she gets her jollies.
It's a waste of time and energy.
Don

As a graphic designer, I daily encounter the lies of companies about their products. Advertsing is the art of lying legally. They employ legal advisers to say what they can and cannot get away with who sometimes get it wrong or the compnay decides it can get away with it. The general idea is to mislead you into buying their products. The more they can squeeze out of you, the more 'successful' they are termed to be. They have no compunction about taking your job, your home, your kids your life in the pursuit of their profit. Their credo is 'maximisation of profit'. There are so many many cases of rip-off by so-called respectable companies (recent egs Microsoft, Enron) that it beggars belief that anyone can really believe anything these companies say. So, I know very well about their twisted ways.

So, in your view, since it is common practice to lie, it is okay... and if you complain about having been so misled, you only have yourself to blame.. no rights or laws to uphold them... no chance to embarrass the company... to make others aware of their rip off? Just accpet what you got an' be grateful? You clearly are a devout Captialist.

You should read what I said next to Don...--Plooph

You might recall that you started this thread with a side swipe at those who complain about their cameras etc. Did you truly imagine that you could mouthe off with impunity?

Listen, if you are happy with your lot and never complain since it is only your own fault for being ripped off, then do so. But every time you get up and shout that and I am here, i will tell you that you are wrong. It is called free speech. I do not agree with your ideas. I find them silly and dangerous. Olympus reading your sucking stuff will be jumping for joy that they have to do as little as they did with the Exx to get your money. Added to which is that if they rip you off again, which they will, you will blame yourself an not complain. Sorry, but you sound very stupid.

Don Christolear said:

AE
Excellent, excellent, excellent.
All plooph wants to do is argue. That's where she gets her jollies.
It's a waste of time and energy.
Don

Click to expand...

--Plooph

Member said:

Through intensive testing of my E10, I'm pretty comfortable with my
knowledge of what it CAN and CAN'T do.
If I'm going to a low lit presentation, my Oly stays home and I
enjoy the show.
If I'm asked to take photo's that need a high ISO, I say sorry.

Click to expand...

Member said:

The only limitations my Oly has had so far has been me.

Click to expand...

This makes no sense.

Bill

Dr. Gonzo said:

Plooph said:

To some extent that analogy is so. Prior experince leads one to
expect... But being able to focus is a reasonable expectation. T

Click to expand...

My experience is that I can focus my E fine. Therefore if you have
ruled out hardware issues (you HAVE, haven't you?), then it is a
user issue. Are you missing all the recent posts by pro and semipro
users of the E here? I think they are coming out now because of
people like you who blame the camera for their own inability to use
it. If you suck, you suck, don't blame the equipment.

Click to expand...

The tokenasian's site lists how to mf with the E10. So there is no problem... why put it there? Yours is faulty since it looks in focus in a range of settings but is only in one - so oof shots. There ARE focusing issues with the camera highlighted by many people. For some there are workarounds but that is not how it should be an Olympus should be told that. BTW, my E10 does focus okay much of the time and employing YOUR fix plus increased dof, i can mf quite well. But much of the time is not good enough. AF is unreliable . It too often claims focus when it has not.

If the equipment is iffy, I blame the equipment - seems logical to me. Clearly not to you.

Dr. Gonzo said:

Dr. Gonzo said:

The
noise thing. Of course, 35mm film is as noisy or even noisier. But
this is NOT 35mm film. The possiblities are greater and Oly failed
to make the best of them in some important areas. As I said before,
Canon showed where Oly should have been aiming with noise. Even the
E20 made no significant move there. The hope of many is that the
next will.

Click to expand...

Look, the Canon is INHERENTLY LESS NOISY THAN THE E SERIES DUE TO
ITS SENSOR. Get a clue! If you've got some genius idea to get
around this basic characteristic, I encourage you to apply at
Olympus since you obviously know more than them about cleaning up a
small sensor's image.

Click to expand...

You still have not got the point have you - Dr Bonzo. I repeat, I have not said a D30. I said, and I repeat yet again: Olympus should have done much better in the NR area than it has. Is that simply enough put for you?

Dr. Gonzo said:

If it bothers you that much, go buy a camera with a larger sensor!
You were the cheapass who bought the E-series, and you were the
ignoramus who didn't do your homework before buying. You're the
impatient fumbler with a non-discerning eye that can't get their E
to focus when the vast, vast majority of users can. You're the
self-fulfilling prophet that blows up images to 72dpi, looking in
dark areas for noise. You're the selective listener that keys in on
the minority that complain the E does not meet their overinflated
or poorly researched expectations, or that screw up and blame the
camera, while ignoring the many, many success stories posted in the
very same threads. You're the stubborn individual with an
unwillingness to learn that tries instead to bend a piece of
equipment to work the way an entirely different piece of hardware
works.

Full-sized sample images from the E are available ON THIS VERY
SITE, as are myriad discussions of the focusing characteristics, so
if you missed them, BLAME YOURSELF.

Click to expand...

I did and read the claims here of no issue with noise and no focusing problems. I did not reckon too much for the people offering these views that they were blinded by their own choice (ego) and unwilling to own up to the camera's failings. Obvious faults. It turns out to be a workaround camera for basic functions.

Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm wasting bandwidth with you at this point. either you don't
understand english, or you don't understand the basic concepts of
sensor noise. Go read the other thread where you originally
revealed your ignorance. It's all been hashed out there before (and
re-hashed and re-hashed).

Click to expand...

Don't waste anymore. Please! Suits me if you do not bother . However, I do not think you can help yourself. It is 'a red rag to a bull' for you. Not just here but anywhere. You have a chip - Dr Bonzo. Sadly it is still there. Why are you trying ot defend a camera - a piece of metal and plastic? You got shares in Oly? Is it the Asian thing which seems important to you?

BTW I am English.

Dr. Gonzo said:

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Click to expand...

--Plooph

1. What a bizarre reply. You have an almost religous opposition to the Olympus E-XX cameras.

2. No, it did not say it is okay to lie.

3. I never said that I liked the way advertising works. I study politics/public opinion for a living. I hate what the Madison Avenue ad people have done to elections here in the US.

But, this does not stop me from recogniziing the fact that advertisments never tell the whole story, and discounting them appropriately. I understand the reality of the world and I act accordingly. The vast majority of people do this.

It should not have been a surprise to you that Olympus ads do not mention the weaknesses of their products. No company does this. No politician does this. No government does this. Democrats, Tories, Greenpeace, Exxon, Nikon, Communists, Olympus, Anmnisty International, Ford, Red Cross, etc. None of them promote their weaknesses. They all only tell half the story. (All press releases are BS.)

If I remember right, you live in Europe. Anyone who lives under the EU umbrella should be used to public relations spin that does not tell the whole story.

4. Is it lying to omit facts? Maybe, but if so we are all liars.

Imagine if you were asked to publicly describe yourself. What would you mention? Would you focus on the good parts of your character, or would you highlight your weaknesses? I doubt you would focus on your weaknesses.

5. Have you written a letter complaining to Olympus? Or, have you just restricted your ranting to this forum?

Plooph said:

As a graphic designer, I daily encounter the lies of companies
about their products. Advertsing is the art of lying legally. They
employ legal advisers to say what they can and cannot get away with
who sometimes get it wrong or the compnay decides it can get away
with it. The general idea is to mislead you into buying their
products. The more they can squeeze out of you, the more
'successful' they are termed to be. They have no compunction about
taking your job, your home, your kids your life in the pursuit of
their profit. Their credo is 'maximisation of profit'. There are so
many many cases of rip-off by so-called respectable companies
(recent egs Microsoft, Enron) that it beggars belief that anyone
can really believe anything these companies say. So, I know very
well about their twisted ways.

So, in your view, since it is common practice to lie, it is okay...
and if you complain about having been so misled, you only have
yourself to blame.. no rights or laws to uphold them... no chance
to embarrass the company... to make others aware of their rip off?
Just accpet what you got an' be grateful? You clearly are a devout
Captialist.

You should read what I said next to Don...
--
Plooph

Click to expand...

Show me a company that advertises it's own product flaws, minor or major, and I'll show you a company that's out of business.

Show me a camera (or any piece of equipment) that doesn't have flaws and I'll show you a fantasy.

Show me a dictionary with a definition of pessimist and I'll show you a picture of Plooph.

Plooph said:

eileen said:

Ten years ago, I was told by a team lead at that very large
software company located in Washington State that one of their
software programs could not possibly do what I wanted it to do. It
wasn't built to do what I wanted it to do. It would not do what I
wanted it to do. It was IMPOSSIBLE. Sure. Yeah. Boy, was she
surprised when, a few days later, I not only told her I had made it
do EXACTLY what I wanted it to do, but proved it to her by
providing her with the actions.

Gentlemen: For as long as the human spirit is alive and thriving -
and as long as there are challenges to be met, there's no such
thing as "impossible".

eileen

Click to expand...

--
Plooph

Click to expand...

Plooph said:

I saw no mention of the rip-off ED glass.

Click to expand...

I don't know anything about ED glass, but olympus is not the only company to use it.

From: http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/LensGuide/opt_tech.html

"ED glass

Developed by Nikon optical designers and Nikon glass specialists, ED (Extra-low Dispersion) glass used in selected telephoto and telephoto zoom lenses provides superior performance. ED glass effectively minimizes chromatic aberration to a degree that is remarkable in telephoto lenses. Advances such as this, backed by a great amount of valuable data gathered through the long years of Nikon’s association with professional photographers, as well as through intensive R&D, ensure that Nikon continues to make lenses that meet or exceed market needs."

From http://nikon.topica.ne.jp/bi_e/encyclo/encyclo.htm:

"ED glass

Nikon especially developed ED (Extra-low Dispersion) glass to provide pricise optical colour correction. Because colours of the spectrum have differing wavelengths, red and blue light rays are bent at slightly different angles as they pass through nomal optical glass. This dispersion results in colour fringing and lack of sharpness (see illustration at right). Modern techniques to correct this chromatic aberration are effective with most lenses. But telescopic lenses magnify the slight variation in focus between red and blue light rays. Nikon developed ED glass in order to provide the sharp, clear resolution required for superb photographs."

I guess Nikon is ripping everybody off also also. (Sarcasm)

William C said:

Member said:

Through intensive testing of my E10, I'm pretty comfortable with my
knowledge of what it CAN and CAN'T do.
If I'm going to a low lit presentation, my Oly stays home and I
enjoy the show.
If I'm asked to take photo's that need a high ISO, I say sorry.

Click to expand...

Member said:

The only limitations my Oly has had so far has been me.

Click to expand...

This makes no sense.

Bill

Click to expand...

What part of SIMPLE don't you understand, Bill?
Maybe Plooph can explain it to you?

Let me know what part of my post you have a problem with. You and plooph seem to be the only one's who don't get it.
Don

Plooph said:

You still have not got the point have you - Dr Bonzo. I repeat, I
have not said a D30. I said, and I repeat yet again: Olympus should
have done much better in the NR area than it has. Is that simply
enough put for you?

Click to expand...

Ok, I'm going to call you on this one. What do you mean, if not the D30? Which Canon "set the standard" for Olympus to follow? Take your time composing your answer, and do note the E-10 was the ONLY 4 megapixel camera for almost a year.

And remember:

You were the cheapass who bought the E-series, and you were the ignoramus who didn't do your homework before buying. You're the impatient fumbler with a non-discerning eye that can't get their E to focus when the vast, vast majority of users can. You're the self-fulfilling prophet that blows up images to 72dpi, looking in dark areas for noise. You're the selective listener that keys in on the minority that complain the E does not meet their overinflated or poorly researched expectations, or that screw up and blame the camera, while ignoring the many, many success stories posted in the very same threads. You're the stubborn individual with an unwillingness to learn that tries instead to bend a piece of equipment to work the way an entirely different piece of hardware works.

Full-sized sample images from the E are available ON THIS VERY SITE, as are myriad discussions of the focusing characteristics, so if you missed them, BLAME YOURSELF.
--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Don Christolear said:

My point was that Oly didn't advertise their product as 'The
Noisless, perfectly focused shot every time (which even the $6,000
camera can't boast) camera'. They never made that claim.

Click to expand...

They never

Member said:

made ANY claim.
Their only claim was 'we have a camera for $$$$, if you want it we
will gladly sell it to you'.

Click to expand...

===================
CAMEDIA E-10
The First Pro Digital SLR from Olympus.

Breaking the boundaries and opening up a new world of Digital Imaging, Olympus releases a sensational new digital photography system with astounding price-performance. Until recently, it was the declared intention of Olympus to design digital cameras that were the equal of their analogue counterparts. Because the rapid evolution of Digital Imaging has revolutionised the possibilities, the opto-digital specialist can now present a new series of digital cameras. These surpass analogue models in many respects and deliver the professional results required by studio photographers for portraits, fashion and advertising shootings. Led by the E-10 digital SLR and a selection of specially designed accessories, Olympus writes a new chapter in the history of digital photography.
===============

Pro Digital?? These surpass analogue models... ...deliver the professional results... blurb blur blur WTF!

Try here for the rest:

http://cf.olympus-europa.com/consumer/digimg/products/cameras/e10/details.stm

You will likely find similar claims on all their sites. So, you think it is a 'Pro Digital'? hahahahaha

Really?--Plooph

Plooph said:

You will likely find similar claims on all their sites. So, you
think it is a 'Pro Digital'? hahahahaha

Really?
--

Click to expand...

Yes. Many people achieve professional results with it (and many "lesser" cameras not aimed at the pro market). Here's just the latest such person; I expect you to challenge his professionalism or you're just blowing smoke:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2169128

I have occasionally used my E's images professionally. Others do it on a much more regular basis. Some have earned enough money with their E images to buy "the next thing."

Just because YOU are incapable of it, you aren't going to all of a sudden negate the fact that it's very capable of professional results in a professional's hands.

Like I said:

You were the cheapass who bought the E-series, and you were the ignoramus who didn't do your homework before buying. You're the impatient fumbler with a non-discerning eye that can't get their E to focus when the vast, vast majority of users can. You're the self-fulfilling prophet that blows up images to 72dpi, looking in dark areas for noise. You're the selective listener that keys in on the minority that complain the E does not meet their overinflated or poorly researched expectations, or that screw up and blame the camera, while ignoring the many, many success stories posted in the very same threads. You're the stubborn individual with an unwillingness to learn that tries instead to bend a piece of equipment to work the way an entirely different piece of hardware works.

Full-sized sample images from the E are available ON THIS VERY SITE, as are myriad discussions of the focusing characteristics, so if you missed them, BLAME YOURSELF.
--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

David Bailey seemed pretty pleased with his E-10 when talking about digital photography in Professional Photogapher magazine, in fact he thought it was another great tool in his arsenal and loved using it, but what would he know?

Nick

Plooph said:

Don Christolear said:

My point was that Oly didn't advertise their product as 'The
Noisless, perfectly focused shot every time (which even the $6,000
camera can't boast) camera'. They never made that claim.

Click to expand...

They never

Plooph said:

made ANY claim.
Their only claim was 'we have a camera for $$$$, if you want it we
will gladly sell it to you'.

Click to expand...

===================
CAMEDIA E-10
The First Pro Digital SLR from Olympus.

Breaking the boundaries and opening up a new world of Digital
Imaging, Olympus releases a sensational new digital photography
system with astounding price-performance. Until recently, it was
the declared intention of Olympus to design digital cameras that
were the equal of their analogue counterparts. Because the rapid
evolution of Digital Imaging has revolutionised the possibilities,
the opto-digital specialist can now present a new series of digital
cameras. These surpass analogue models in many respects and deliver
the professional results required by studio photographers for
portraits, fashion and advertising shootings. Led by the E-10
digital SLR and a selection of specially designed accessories,
Olympus writes a new chapter in the history of digital photography.
===============

Pro Digital?? These surpass analogue models... ...deliver the
professional results... blurb blur blur WTF!

Try here for the rest:

http://cf.olympus-europa.com/consumer/digimg/products/cameras/e10/details.stm

You will likely find similar claims on all their sites. So, you
think it is a 'Pro Digital'? hahahahaha

Really?
--
Plooph

Click to expand...

Try this one

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=1879867

You will need a napkin for the egg on your face - sarcasm... hahahaha--Plooph

Don Christolear said:

William C said:

Member said:

Through intensive testing of my E10, I'm pretty comfortable with my
knowledge of what it CAN and CAN'T do.
If I'm going to a low lit presentation, my Oly stays home and I
enjoy the show.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Limited by the noise of the camera

Member said:

Member said:

Member said:

If I'm asked to take photo's that need a high ISO, I say sorry.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Limited by the noise of the camera

Member said:

Member said:

Member said:

The only limitations my Oly has had so far has been me.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

No limitations due to the camera....

Member said:

Member said:

This makes no sense.

Bill

Click to expand...

What part of SIMPLE don't you understand, Bill?
Maybe Plooph can explain it to you?
Let me know what part of my post you have a problem with. You and
plooph seem to be the only one's who don't get it.
Don

Click to expand...

You express forcibly that the camera limits you by its noise (see above for a refresh) then go on to say that the only limitation is you - no limitations due to the camera. What! In a sense, I agree with your lack of logic... you are limited. Do you want to change your SIMPLE plea to moronic?

--Plooph

Oh dear you have been on the mushrooms.

ToddW said:

Show me a company that advertises it's own product flaws, minor or
major, and I'll show you a company that's out of business.

Click to expand...

My points exactly - it has flaws and they lied. There are laws against this type of behaviour. I wonder why... But, you and your type here are condoning outright rip-off. Let me paraphrase your view: don't complain just put up with it. Right, and when they take your house and car because you saw no sense in complaining, we'll know who was to blame. 'Get up! Stand up! Stand up for your rights!' as Bob Marley sang.

ToddW said:

Show me a camera (or any piece of equipment) that doesn't have
flaws and I'll show you a fantasy.

Click to expand...

Perfection an 'ad man's idea'. Penny dropping yet... heard it before somewhere in this thread?

ToddW said:

Show me a dictionary with a definition of pessimist and I'll show
you a picture of Plooph.

Click to expand...

In this case, pessimism is the wise option - my view.

ToddW said:

Plooph said:

eileen said:

Ten years ago, I was told by a team lead at that very large
software company located in Washington State that one of their
software programs could not possibly do what I wanted it to do. It
wasn't built to do what I wanted it to do. It would not do what I
wanted it to do. It was IMPOSSIBLE. Sure. Yeah. Boy, was she
surprised when, a few days later, I not only told her I had made it
do EXACTLY what I wanted it to do, but proved it to her by
providing her with the actions.

Gentlemen: For as long as the human spirit is alive and thriving -
and as long as there are challenges to be met, there's no such
thing as "impossible".

eileen

Click to expand...

--
Plooph

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--Plooph

I read Phil Askey's review of the E-20 and noted that he did not hold it in high esteem. He gave it a 7.5 which is significantly lower than other cameras that I had considered buying. Then I did some more research including reading some of this forum and other forums. Then I went to a camera store and took a look at the E-20.

I bought the E-20 along with all of its warts. I gotta tell ya, the good parts about the E-20 make it easy to live with the warts. I knew that before I bought it and I still know it. There has been no bad news because there has been no new news. See what I mean?

Here is the question, Plouph. Did you also research the camera before you bought it?

Plooph said:

Don Christolear said:

William C said:

Plooph said:

Through intensive testing of my E10, I'm pretty comfortable with my
knowledge of what it CAN and CAN'T do.
If I'm going to a low lit presentation, my Oly stays home and I
enjoy the show.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Limited by the noise of the camera

Plooph said:

Plooph said:

Plooph said:

If I'm asked to take photo's that need a high ISO, I say sorry.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Limited by the noise of the camera

Plooph said:

Plooph said:

Plooph said:

The only limitations my Oly has had so far has been me.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

No limitations due to the camera....

Plooph said:

Plooph said:

This makes no sense.

Bill

Click to expand...

What part of SIMPLE don't you understand, Bill?
Maybe Plooph can explain it to you?
Let me know what part of my post you have a problem with. You and
plooph seem to be the only one's who don't get it.
Don

Click to expand...

You express forcibly that the camera limits you by its noise (see
above for a refresh) then go on to say that the only limitation is
you - no limitations due to the camera. What! In a sense, I agree
with your lack of logic... you are limited. Do you want to change
your SIMPLE plea to moronic?

--
Plooph

Click to expand...

I can't take photographs without flash in total darkness!

Plooph: "Limitation of the camera"

I can't freeze action at 1/30 sec!

Plooph: "Limitation of the camera"

I can't get a 12 Megapixel image out of a 3 Megapixel sensor!

Plooph: "Limitation of the camera'

I can't get 50,000 shots of life out of my AA batteries!

Plooph: "Limitation of the camera"

I understand that every piece of technolgy no matter what it is has limits and that it is up to ME and not the piece of technology to deal with it.

Plooph: "What are you talking about?"

Great photgraphers take great photos.

Plooph: "I thought the camera was supposed to do it all for me!"

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2170491

Maybe you need to buy a smarter camera, Plooph.

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Plooph said:

Try this one

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=1879867

You will need a napkin for the egg on your face - sarcasm... hahahaha

Click to expand...

1. You are weird.

2. I don't feel like I have egg on my face for having not read something that was posted weeks before I ever joined this forum.

3. So what. That is still just one man's opinion. I do not doubt his credentials, but I bet you could find another lens designer that would like the ED glass lens.

Besides, I read the whole thread. Brian actually had some very good things to say about the len system as a whole.

4. Everyone seems to used ED glass. How are you sure that all of their glass is not just as useless as you claim the Olympus glass is? Did Brian tell you?

I have read these post with mild amusement for the last 30 minutes or so and have a few things to say. I have been a photographer for the past 30 years or so, and at times made a fair amount of money in the business shooting weddings and portraits as well as some art. The focus on tools and their flaws is a bit more poignant given the very unresoanable cost of digital cameras and the constant upgrading and marketing that is part of the scene. I am sure that these manufacturers looked at the computer and software industry and rubbed their hands together !!!!! Sure R and D costs money, but digital cameras based on cheap 35 mm bodies costing more than hasselblads or nikon f5's is a bit out of control. That been said, I did buy an E10 last year soon after it came out and did pay the first year premium price. As far as the limitations of the camera, i have found that one matches the tool to the job. I use the camera for immediacy and do not try to make perform past its obvious limitations . So if I am making 30 x 40 prints I use the mamiya c330 or a mamiya 6 with velvia. If I am making an 8x10 or 11x14 print of a studio or location portrait I use the E10. If the action is very fast or its very bright, I use my trusty old F4 wirth the right film. None of the cameras aformentioned do exactly the job of its colleauge in my arsenal. By the way one can find very cheap used film cameras both in medium and 35 mm. The point is that every piece of equipment has its strenghts and weakness, I don't use the old Mamiya c330 to shoot stop action sports, etc. The obsession with equipment sometimes (and I have been guilty at times) gets in the way of making images. The level of personal attacks in this forum is a bit amusing to me , sort of like a world wrestling match. Ones possesions as an indication of ego is pretty funny, perhaps the flamers ought to read Zen a little more, and obsess a little less. I spose i may get flamed a bit for this response, so I say bring it on!!! If your camera is not working correctly and has manufacturing flaws and/or is not focussing correctly or has a number of dead pixels, send it back and get it fixed !!! Otherwise make images. LOL