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D80 As A Star Trail Camera

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larrytusaz

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I currently have the D50, and love it. That said, of course I at times tend to be struck by "D80 fever." Can't blame me, reviews on this camera almost universally are outstanding.

Except: amp noise.

I have always poo-pooed those who find issues with d-SLRs, especially those of the front/back-focusing and hot-pixel variety. That said, no less an authority than Thom Hogan has found amp noise issues with the D80.

Granted, the issue seems to be much more focused on the pre-305xxxx-series models, but I've heard him say that even those models PAST the 305xxxx-serial number aren't suitable at all for any star trail work. This disappoints me if true. Maybe I'm overlooking problems in my own photos that I haven't noticed, but at any rate I've done 25-30 minute star trail shots on my D50 and noticed absolutely no amp noise. (Then again, like I said, maybe it is there and I just haven't noticed.) Besides that, even the Canon D60 from 2002(!) is legendary for its ability to take night-shots free of such noise.

If I were to upgrade to the D80 at any point, I'd do so fully expecting it to be able to do such shots just as good--if not better--than the D50 does them.

Maybe I'm making too much out of nothing, maybe I'm guilty of the same "pixel peeping" that I lamblast others for who find front-back focusing issues and hot pixels etc. I just want to make sure before I possibly upgrade at any point in the future.

Tips? Anybody done any such type of photography with the D80 (of whatever serial number series) and what type of luck did you have?

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
 
Larry,

I want to preface this by saying I really enjoy this camera. And like you, have read the endless threads of hot/dead pixels and amp glow. And yes, my camera suffers from both. But, I still like the camera.

I came to buying the D80 after messing around with a Sony H1 most of last winter. One of the things I did (or at least tried to do) w/ the H1 was night photography. I got somewhat decent results given the limitations of a P&S and my limited ability as a photographer. So I figured that I'd buy a camera that I could grow in to...the D80. I got one of the first here in the US.

Had I known about the amp glow problem...because of my interest in long exposure work...I wouldn't have purchased it. But if the exposure time is under a couple of minutes at low ISO's the glow can get cropped out; it stays in the uppermost portion of the frame. I'd go on but if you've read TH's review there's not much I can add. He's dead on with his assessment.

Some of the posted issues with the camera can be worked-around. E.I.; While using matrix metering I usually knock the exposure back 1/2 to 2/3 of a stop. Using any of the auto modes TTL w/the onboard flash or the SB-800 it underexposes a full stop. I don't use matrix or auto modes hardly at all...so it doesn't really matter to me. I figure that Nikon will come up with some type of firmware update in the future to address this if they deem it needed or if enough cameras exhibit the same. I've got thousands and thousands of dollars wrapped up in amatuer radio (ham radio) equipment and none of that hardware is free from "work-arounds" either. I've come to expect it.

Unfortunately, there's no work around for the amp glow issue for doing long exposures. Let me revise that...you can probably figure out a way to make it work thru PP...but if you haven't made the purchase I wouldn't buy the headache of the post processing.

If your question was,"Should I buy a D80 for anything but long exposures". The answer would be yes. I want to end this on the same note I started it on...it's a great camera...but not for what you want to use it for IMHO.

If you're in the buying mood...for a few hundred more...there's the D200!!

Bill
 
quarryman said:
Larry,

If your question was,"Should I buy a D80 for anything but long
exposures". The answer would be yes. I want to end this on the same
note I started it on...it's a great camera...but not for what you
want to use it for IMHO.

If you're in the buying mood...for a few hundred more...there's the
D200!!

Bill
Click to expand...
I guess I've been assuming the d200 would have similar amp glow (or maybe worse given more A/D's). Can you point me to any supporting details?

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve,

You could be right. It was an off the cuff remark on my part. Prior to buying the the D80 I spent a fair amount of time reading the posts in the D200 forum and didn't remember anybody griping about it. But that doesn't mean it's not so. You'd have to do more research than I've done.

Bill
sajurcaju said:
sajurcaju said:
If you're in the buying mood...for a few hundred more...there's the
D200!!

Bill
Click to expand...
I guess I've been assuming the d200 would have similar amp glow (or
maybe worse given more A/D's). Can you point me to any supporting
details?

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...
 
other nite, with my D50--amp glow/noise, on a 16 min. exposure! (and it was cold outside, so the cam wasn't heatin up at all :)

So, then I figured I'd try a little less time, and did one at around 14 min., and it was 'amp-glow-free' (go figger).

My point? D50s are not all the same, since yours exhibited 'none' and mine 'did'.
FWIW...

--
Jim K...just outside Detroit, MI
DeeFifty; CeeTwentyOneHundred; EffZeeFiveK

http://www.pbase.com/jkorsog ...Pbase supporter
http://motorcityjim.fotopic.net/
 
I don't understand this amp glow issue. One of the common things to do in almost any digital astrophotography is to record a dark frame to substract from the actual image. Why wouldn't that work with the D80?
 
Mark9473 said:
I don't understand this amp glow issue. One of the common things to
do in almost any digital astrophotography is to record a dark frame
to substract from the actual image. Why wouldn't that work with the
D80?
Click to expand...
That might work. But to me, one of the reasons to use an SLR as opposed to (say) the Nikon Coolpix 5700 is that they're supposed to have digital noise under enough control that even a 20 minute star trails photograph doesn't require any such correction. You miss shots--and drain the battery--when you have to do a 2nd exposure that's as long as the "real" one.

Maybe I just expect too much, after reading how the Canon D60 of 2002(!) can apparently pull that off--and seeing the results from my D50. Maybe I just expect too much.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
 
larrytusaz said:
Maybe I just expect too much, after reading how the Canon D60 of
2002(!) can apparently pull that off--and seeing the results from
my D50. Maybe I just expect too much.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think you expect too much at all. It's just unfortunate that this particular camera isn't well suited for the task at hand. Certainly when I bought this my expectation wasn't that the upper portion of the frame would turn purple...But with that said I'm still glad I purchased the camera.

Larry, give me some camera settings (ISO, F/, and exposure time) and I'll toss the D80 on the tripod and point it skyward and you can see for yourself. I have 50mm 1.8, 70-300G, 18-55 kit, and a Sigma 10-20. Tell me the lens you want and how to focus it (never tried this particular sport) and I'll post it here later tonight.

Bill
 
quarryman said:
Larry, give me some camera settings (ISO, F/, and exposure time)
and I'll toss the D80 on the tripod and point it skyward and you
can see for yourself. I have 50mm 1.8, 70-300G, 18-55 kit, and a
Sigma 10-20. Tell me the lens you want and how to focus it (never
tried this particular sport) and I'll post it here later tonight.

Bill
Click to expand...
You can use the 50mm f/1.8, since it's easier to focus on infinity (the 18-55mm is a little bit shy of all the way clockwise, easy to miss & thus make an out-of-focus shot).

I'd say a 20 minute exposure, ISO 200, f/5.6, no dark-frame-subtraction, Fine-Large JPEG mode.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
 
Okay Larry...I'll give it a spin. I have little confidence that the shot will be a "keeper"...but you can see if the amp glow is something you can deal with...

Give me an hour or so and I'll get something posted...
larrytusaz said:
quarryman said:
Larry, give me some camera settings (ISO, F/, and exposure time)
and I'll toss the D80 on the tripod and point it skyward and you
can see for yourself. I have 50mm 1.8, 70-300G, 18-55 kit, and a
Sigma 10-20. Tell me the lens you want and how to focus it (never
tried this particular sport) and I'll post it here later tonight.

Bill
Click to expand...
You can use the 50mm f/1.8, since it's easier to focus on infinity
(the 18-55mm is a little bit shy of all the way clockwise, easy to
miss & thus make an out-of-focus shot).

I'd say a 20 minute exposure, ISO 200, f/5.6, no
dark-frame-subtraction, Fine-Large JPEG mode.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
 
Well as promised...this is a mess! You can see the effect of wind and a cheap tripod.

I'll send you the full .jpeg if you want it.

Lots of amp glow, hot pixels...at 100% crop the pixel issue is a bit disturbing...

Also, the temp here in W. Mass is a balmy 8F

 
I couldn't figure out how to "subscribe" to this thread, so this is just so it shows up in my list of messages. I'm interested in seeing this kinda photography.
 
Thank God there's better examples of it to be found...lol.
DJFriar said:
I couldn't figure out how to "subscribe" to this thread, so this is
just so it shows up in my list of messages. I'm interested in
seeing this kinda photography.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the shot. The amp glow--yikes.

By the way, what is the serial number of your model? I'm told that those past 305xxxx exhibit much less of the amp glow.

Also, here is a photo I took with the D50, 26 minutes at ISO 200. There is something on the top-left that SEEMS to be amp-glow, that's actually a tree and I think it's color-fringing on it, not amp glow.



Again, what SN was your D80?

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
 
The only way (I know of) to get decent long exposure from D80 is

1. find out what is the max time your camera can do amp glow free shot and than use in camera multiple exposure - D80 can do up to 3 exposures to a frame. In my case, up to 3 minutes are OK so, I can have 9 minutes exposure frame that is virtually amp glow free. Yup, rather pitiful when compared to how long I can expose with D50 before the amp glow appears...
--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
301xxxx

It's an early one.

Here's a quick clean-up in NX. Cropped, and contrasted. Still not a keeper :) Didn't bother to clean up the hot pixels.

But it was a fun exercise and a good excuse to stand out in single digit temps...lol.

Hope this helps in your decision concerning the D80.

Bill


larrytusaz said:
LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
-
larrytusaz said:
Click to expand...
larrytusaz said:
Again, what SN was your D80?

--
Click to expand...
 
Not trying to be rude or anything, but just glancing at your equpiment listed in that sig photo I think you would get much more bang for your buck by purchasing lenses at this point. That said everyone has different needs so it could be those fit what you need. I like the D80 a lot, but if all I had was a couple consumer grade lenses I would invest in some higher quality optics before trying to get a newer body, especially considering the D50 is still a very good camera and not out dated by any stretch.
Take care, Ted
--
http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
 
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