Any pros using a LCD monitor?

I use a crt, Mitsubishi Diamond pro for the color rendition and easy to callibrate.
There are only a few expensive LCDs for photo processiing, correct?

thoughts?

Apple Cinema's, NEC Spectraview's, Eizo Coloredge's & the Lacie 321 are the only flat panels that are considered suitable. Lots of people are using them in the industry
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Simon

Of course there are pros using LCD's for photo processing, probably most of them.

"There are only a few expensive LCDs for photo processiing, correct?"

Absolutely wrong. There are hundreds of LCD monitors out there which might be suitable for photo processing depending on ones requirements. There are only a small handful that are as colour accurate (across the entire panel) as the very best CRT's, ,but most LCD's are more accurate than most CRT's.

People make a huge deal over LCD's based on what they read on forums and test reports, and would be better served by some real life experiences instead. Same when laptop displays are mention currently have seven laptops and four desktops (running a total of seven 21.5" LCD panels) in use and this is my take on things.

If you are a product photographer where matching paint and fabrics are crucial, then by all means spend the big bucks for the best LCD panels. If your photography doesn't include matching paint/fabrics (probably about 99% of us) then the high end monitors won't be necessary for colour accuracy purposes, though there may be some other features of the high end monitors you personally feel is worth paying for.

If you're a hobbiest almost any LCD of the desired size and resolution will serve you were if properly profiled. If you're a professional who shoots weddings, portraits, sports, and the like.. and maybe landscapes for recreational purposes.. then you'll want a good quality LCD panel.

I personally shoot portraits, landscapes, and shot weddings for a few years until this last year.. (mostly photojournalism work at the moment) (professionally) and use Viewsonic VP211b's which are 21.5" LCD's running 1600x1200 in a dual side/side mode on a Viewsonic dual display stand. These monitors are wonderful and perform wonderfully for my purposes and calibrate at 6500/2.0/140 and pretty much stay calibrated for long long time once profiled. VP211b's used to sell for $2000, and before they stopped making them as low as $800. Their replacment (VP2130b) has better specs and a cheaper price (about $550) but I haven't used or tested one. The VP211b's are top quality monitors and thre reviews at the time said on a few high end Lacie models were better..and then only more colour accurate from edge to edge.

Ever here "you can't use a laptop for serious photograph?" Pure Hooey. For most photographic purposes, if properly profiles, they'll work fine. I should qualify that by saying I only use high end Dell displays (1600x1200 or 1920x1200 and recently a 1440x900 (14.1")) with optional video cards and I carefully profile them.,.. and they are ALL matte screens save one.. which is a "truebrite" or whatever they call it.. and it's a disaster for photo processing. I keep it around to use outdoors.. where its' high contrast allows you to be able to see it in bright sun IF yuo angle it just perfectly. Only one of my laptops has a display that equals my VP211b's.. and which I'd trust 100% for colour accuracy.. and that's my Precision Moble Workstation M90 with the optional 1920x1200 screen and 512mb Nvidia FX2500 Quadro Open-GL video card option.. awesome laptop in every respect.. My others aren't bad either.. perfectly suitable for most photo work IF you carry a profiling puck with you and set up for the ambient light in your location.

If I was looking to replace my VP211b's today.. I'd first look at the VP2130b replacements, mostly because these models have thin bezels and are designed to be used in multi-display setups and fit their own branded stands. I don't know any other monitors that do that. If the VP2130b didn't satisfy me I'd look at other Viewsonic models before going somewhere else and then reluctantly. Viewsonic offers a standard 3 year warranty (on their pro series) which is cheaply upgradable to the next layer of service where they'll ship you out a replacement at their cost with a return pre--paid shipping label to return the bad one with. This allows you to keep using the old one and test out the new one.. without being without.

Good luck looking to replace your CRT.. but do take the time to test some models hands on.. being sure to profile them before making judgment.. Profiling an LCD is critical to it's performance..

BKKSW

my point is that most lcds. cannot not be adjusted like a crt or the top end lcds.

I would like to go an apple computer. The one I would like is the new floor case model power mac. It is really over kill I think for what I need, but I like the way you can upgrade it. The best base price I found cost $2250 then I would need another gig of mem. at $300, another hard drive, $150, a window xp program so I can run Mac and windows, $80, plus some misc stuff another $200..
Expensive..

The only other Macs are the ones with the computer and screen built in.

So I don't know about considering them because they are LCD and I don't think you get as good quality color rendition.

I just ordered the Mac pro laptop 15" after a long investigation on what to buy..

I will use that and see how well I like the Max op system.. I need a change, just for fun.

My next will be another desk top and monitor, that's why I am asking..

I probably could use the laptop hooked up to a good monitor I guess.

I use a G4 with a cinema display. We shot abroad recently and took the best Dell lapton (for get the name of it) and i could not do good retouching after having used the Cinema display. So we are getting a 15 or 17" macbook Pro. These use the same screen as the cinema display.

Plus the fact that i use Mac and PC with photoShop and the Mac is nicer to use. In fact with the Intel based dual cores now out I think the PC is in for a rough ride. Mocrosoft's Windows is laborious and just...uncool after all these years and the Mac with OSX just gets cooler and cooler and is so much nicer to use. I think Macs are going to take a much higher profile in the next few years although I know a lot of dedicated PC users are still frightened of them. They shouldn't be though.
Jules

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Black holes do not destroy information.

I looked on CNET and they don't rate the Cinema displays very high..

A bunch of people are raving about the Dell 24" display. Great price but again, I am looking for good accurate colors that I can calibrate with my Eyeone..

Right now I get almost perfect prints matching my crt using it, form WHCC lab..

I can't waint to get the mac pro laptop. I just ordered early this morning.

They can all be profiled. Whether or not they profile "like CRT's" depends on the CRT and the LCD in question. If they have RGB controls then you can use them.. or choose not to. Most profiling software allows you to choose an "easy" or "advanced" route..

As far as profiling goes they really work out the same. Some models come with their own puck and software even just like some CRT's..

BKKSW

"I use a G4 with a cinema display. We shot abroad recently and took the best Dell lapton (for get the name of it) and i could not do good retouching after having used the Cinema display. So we are getting a 15 or 17" macbook Pro. These use the same screen as the cinema display."

Somehow I doubt you were using the "best" Dell laptop, and if you were it either wasn't working right or it wasn't profiled right.. because if it was you wouldn't have any issues with it unless you were being extremely critical with colour accuracy.

I'm not going to get into the Mac Vs. PC debate, personally I feel this has little to do with your question.. in fact.. if you check you'll find that Apple gets their laptop displays from the same suppliers as does Dell and most other laptop manufacturers. You can get the exact make and model number of the LCD panels from the service tags.. For instance, I have three Dell Latitude D620's with the same "enhanced 1440x900" panel, yet all three are made by different manufacturers (Samsung, LG, Phillips) and have the same specs. Apple does the same, they order in X number of panels from whatever supplier meets their specs.
I

You say they use the same screen, does this mean you're looking at 15-17" desktop LCD's? Same brand means little..

"t i use Mac and PC with photoShop and the Mac is nicer to use. "

I've heard people say that.. heard it the other way around too. I tested a Macbook Pro when I bought my Precision because I was thinking of going that route.. but frankly it wasn't in the same class as the Precision.

I"n fact with the Intel based dual cores now out I think the PC is in for a rough ride. Mocrosoft's Windows is laborious and just...uncool after all these years and the Mac with OSX just gets cooler and cooler and is so much nicer to use. I think Macs are going to take a much higher profile in the next few years although I know a lot of dedicated PC users are still frightened of them. They shouldn't be though.
Jules"

Gosh, people have been saying this for years.. hasn't happened yet. What it will take for Apple to increase it's market share is simple, license other manufacturers to make their product.. When that happens you'll then have the variety of "parts" to design the system you really need, vs. the system Apple thinks you need. For the last reason I've been looking for a good reason to buy a Mac.. their desktops were too limited as they locked you into a case/ps/hdd capacity I couldn't use.. and theri Macbook Pro was a major disappointment when used side by side next to the Dell Precision M90.. Maybe some day, as I really hope to see what the big deal about OSX is about..

BKKSW

"I probably could use the laptop hooked up to a good monitor I guess."

I was reading a few reviews that said the Macbook was a much better buy than the MacBook Pro.. not enough reason to go to the Pro model in their opinion.. I've heard that a few places.

THere's no reason at all you can't use a quality laptop as your photo workstation with the proper external devices. When I bought my M90k(2.16g Core Duo, 2gigs of 666, 7200rpm SATA HDD, 512mb Nvidia Quadro video card) I was amazed that it processed my 1ds2 files through Capture One Pro FASTER than the workstation I built just six months before (3.2gig Pentium D Dual Core, 4gigs of 667, 3 Raptor 10k rpm drives (system, scratch, work), (2) 2tb RAID 5 arrays, etc, etc).. And it did it without any heat, noise, or a single glitch!

The M90 is one of the few laptops with a true DVI out.. with a docking station you can use dual DVI's externals.. and the top docking station allows you to add one PCI card, one hard drive, etc.. to the system.. and its' Express Card slot allows a 3gbps SATA II interface card for some fast external RAID arrays (built into the docking station).. so for sure you could get great performance from a quality laptop if you wanted to go that route.

The docking connector is in the bottom and it "hot docks", so even while it's on.. you can just set the laptop (with the lid open of closed) in the docking station and go to work.. when done pick it up and go to work outsiide.. We live in really good times...

BKKSW

I think you're correct about the Cinema displays.. it's pretty average.

I'd really like to have dual 30" LCD panels on my personal workstation.. I even have the video card installed and ready to go. But after sitting down with some profiled 30" displays (both the Dell and the Apple) for a few hours I was really disappointed. What you get on one part of the monitor isn't necessarily what you get on another part of the monitor.

Clearly many professional users are using these for the real estate and compromising in other areas.

I can hardly wait for some quality 30" (or larger) LCD panels.

Btw - Dell is marketing Samsung's 27" wide screen soon.. perhaps Samsung will market it themselves and this will be the professional solution for those who want the real estate.

I personally feel that a quality dual monitor setup does almost as much (if not more) for productivity than does a fast machine..

BKKSW

CNET don't know what they are talking about then. Just borrow a cinema display and try one for a week or two. I use the Gretag Macbeth Eyeone and it is designed to calibrate such a screen.

Don't believe everything the so called 'experts' tell you. Experiment for your self. As I said the I found the Dell top of the range Lapto almost impossible to work with, it just did not have the clarity at 100% that the Cinema Display has.
Jules

Craig said:

I looked on CNET and they don't rate the Cinema displays very high..

A bunch of people are raving about the Dell 24" display. Great
price but again, I am looking for good accurate colors that I can
calibrate with my Eyeone..

Right now I get almost perfect prints matching my crt using it,
form WHCC lab..

I can't waint to get the mac pro laptop. I just ordered early this
morning.

Click to expand...

--
Black holes do not destroy information.

I think you should try a Cinema for some length of time. I do photoShop every day, it's my job and I find the 20" superb. Not only that but why do you need a 30"? Bigger isn't always better. I like to work quite close to the screen so that i can see every pixel. If you use something bigger you will have to sit on the other side of the room to see it properly. The idea of good retouching is to see the image at 100% crystal clear. I can do that on my Cinema but not on the other six pcs and laptops that we have all of which are good quality screens.

But you get what you like, it's each up to ourselves. I just can't wait to get my 17" Macbook Pro whicj uses the same screen.

Jules

BKKSW said:

I think you're correct about the Cinema displays.. it's pretty
average.

I'd really like to have dual 30" LCD panels on my personal

Click to expand...

We use a number of CRTs in our studio and recently acquired a Cinema display. The color and sharpness is excellent after profiling but hte display is way too bright even after turning down the brightness to minimum.

What happens is that a lot of shadow detail that is visible in the display is not visible in output. On the CRTs this does not happen.

The tech that uses this monitor has adapted to this issue na dnow has no problems but it is something that exists.

I do not know if the super high end NECs or Eizos with led light sources do this but I don't want t o spend $5000 to find out.

You are right BKKSW, it will take a long time if ever because Microsoft is like an overpowering bully and because it is so big people think it is better.
I was talking to a software writer today and he put it this way.

Microsoft (ie the PC)'s method is to do everything you want however difficult that is. Their methods are designed by computer nerds and engineers.

Macs way historically is to look at what the user wants and create the nicest and easiest way to do that for the user. macs have always been used by designers and designers are very fussy about how things work, the shape of them, their erganomics and easyness to use.
PC users don't historically have those skills.
Just look at each sytems 'Find' utility.

On the Mac you click on Hard drive and it opens effortlessly, as you type the file name into the find box at the top it will start findin files with those starting letters before you have finished the word. it looks first in yoyur folders.

Do that on a PC. First you go Start, then Find. A nasty hard window comes up and then you have to choose which drive you want, then you have to type the whole search string in and then search. Then you might as well make a cup of tea as the engine starts by searching every file on you computer.
I hate windows. Macs rule, they are for people. PCs are for computer users.
Jules

BKKSW said:

"I use a G4 with a cinema display. We shot abroad recently and took
the best Dell lapton (for get the name of it) and i could not do
good retouching after having used the Cinema display. So we are
getting a 15 or 17" macbook Pro. These use the same screen as the
cinema display."

Somehow I doubt you were using the "best" Dell laptop, and if you
were it either wasn't working right or it wasn't profiled right..
because if it was you wouldn't have any issues with it unless you
were being extremely critical with colour accuracy.

I'm not going to get into the Mac Vs. PC debate, personally I feel
this has little to do with your question.. in fact.. if you check
you'll find that Apple gets their laptop displays from the same
suppliers as does Dell and most other laptop manufacturers. You
can get the exact make and model number of the LCD panels from the
service tags.. For instance, I have three Dell Latitude D620's with
the same "enhanced 1440x900" panel, yet all three are made by
different manufacturers (Samsung, LG, Phillips) and have the same
specs. Apple does the same, they order in X number of panels from
whatever supplier meets their specs.
I
You say they use the same screen, does this mean you're looking at
15-17" desktop LCD's? Same brand means little..

"t i use Mac and PC with photoShop and the Mac is nicer to use. "

I've heard people say that.. heard it the other way around too. I
tested a Macbook Pro when I bought my Precision because I was
thinking of going that route.. but frankly it wasn't in the same
class as the Precision.

I"n fact with the Intel based dual cores now out I think the PC is
in for a rough ride. Mocrosoft's Windows is laborious and
just...uncool after all these years and the Mac with OSX just gets
cooler and cooler and is so much nicer to use. I think Macs are
going to take a much higher profile in the next few years although
I know a lot of dedicated PC users are still frightened of them.
They shouldn't be though.
Jules"

Gosh, people have been saying this for years.. hasn't happened yet.
What it will take for Apple to increase it's market share is
simple, license other manufacturers to make their product.. When
that happens you'll then have the variety of "parts" to design the
system you really need, vs. the system Apple thinks you need. For
the last reason I've been looking for a good reason to buy a Mac..
their desktops were too limited as they locked you into a
case/ps/hdd capacity I couldn't use.. and theri Macbook Pro was a
major disappointment when used side by side next to the Dell
Precision M90.. Maybe some day, as I really hope to see what the
big deal about OSX is about..

BKKSW

Click to expand...

--
Black holes do not destroy information.

The brightness can be adjusted.. and matched to your output.. like any equipment there are differences to account for..

BKKSW

Word from a colour guru friend of mine.

Stay away from Apple Cinema Display.

Buy NEC SpectraView 21" 2190 / 2180 or if you are really rich - NEC 21" SPECTRAVIEW REFERENCE. It's NOT wide screen but rumored some will be out soon or have already. I use a SpectraView 2180 21".

I think Lacie is make by NEC, so don't waste money on rebadge as Lacie is more expensive.

Eizo isn't as good as some make it out to be?!

Also, change monitor every 3 years as a rule of thumb for true colour accuracy - LCD or CRT!

Have a look at NEC SpectraView, probably the best around in terms of quality / price ratio!