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Today's Oly "E" series bashing

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Jeez Jeff one would think that your family was personally attacked. Cameras don't have hearts, legs or brains. They are replaceable objects.

Bob
Jeff Morris said:
You know, the more I go through these forums I realize that many of
the people who post are thoughtless jerks. I was on the Oly SLR
forum and I came over here because it was mentioned that this
debate was going on. The initial post was thoughtful and brought
up some good points. Before long, it was E-10/E-20 bashing and
this was not called for. I bet most of the people that bash other
products never have held or printed from the products they put down.

I purchased an E-20 with a LiPo grip and a FL-40 flash for $1,950.
This camera does exactly what I want. (Except for the long flush
to card times.) I have a darkroom full of SLR's and point and
shoots. The camera I used every day was my trusty Oly IS-3. A
zoom lens reflex that provided me with stunning photos thanks to
it's remarkable lens. It has a date back and a fast winder. It
handles great. Oly made the IS-1, IS-2 the IS-3 and a number of
nice inexspensive ZLR's like the 10, 20, 30's etc. For less than
$300 I can send someone out to pick up an IS-30 ZLR. A very nice
little film camera, that for most people is a BIG step up from
point and shoots.

Oly took this wonderful design and introduced the E-10. Sure it
had problems, what camera does not? But it was an extension of the
ZLR concept that was so popular for them. Oly had the 500, 600,
and then the 2500 series Digital ZLR's. The E-10 was a big step up
with many advanced features. It just so happens that the "E"
series produces some very nice results. Olympus is not a Canon or
Nikon in size. It is a small company that has done very well. In
fact it never had a popular autofocus SLR line. Today they still
sell the OM-3 and OM-4. (manual focus SLR's.) I give Oly a lot of
credit. They got involved with digital at a very early stage and
for the most part they have offered the amature and semi pro good
product for the money. IMHO except for the D-30 and Canons new pro
D-SLR most of the Canon consumer point and shoots have not been
very impressive. (The G series are very nice and the S-30 and S-40
look like a lot of fun!)

To put a lens on your D-30 (A very nice camera, low noise, good
build quality, outdated but excellent sensor.) I would have to
spend almost $2,500 plus $800 for a lens, Then the flash, and a
battery pack, and more lenses that I do not want to haul around.

A good friend of mine has a D-30. Sam, loves it and I don't blame
him. But I will stop visiting DPREVIEW if this petty bashing does
not stop. We forgot this was to be a photo forum. It has turned
into forums that bash most products other than their own. I looked
at Nikon's forum and they are bashing a camera that has not come
out yet based on a handfull of pictures from a few posts. It's the
same in all forums.

FYI a friend and pro photographer (Shoots for the state of
Michigan) shoots with a Nikon D-1, he tells me Canon glass is not
on the same level that Nikor glass is. He tells me that Canon has
always tried to catch up with Nikon but never reached the pro level
that Nikon has had for years (Read RESPECT from the majority of
pros). I listen to this and realize he is biased towards his own
pro gear. It is ashame because I am sure that Canon pro products
can produce very impressive images. I guess it must be Ford Vs.
Chevy, extended to the photo world.

You know I was raised to have a little humor and respect for
others. Lets see if all forums can behave in a thoughtful manor.
--
Jeff Morris
Click to expand...
 
Actually, most of us on the Nikon SLR forum are watching the new Canon products with great interest. As Nikon has already got 3 CCD models out there, with varying qualities, we are wondering how good the Canon sensor will be. People who have had problems with noise, dust and banding on the D1/D1X are wondering whether Canon will run into the same problems or manage to detour around these issues. If Canon had a 6MP camera with the 1D robustness and focusing, and sensor speed, I would get in line to buy it.

Edmund
Robert Bedwell said:
Jeff Morris said:
I looked
at Nikon's forum and they are bashing a camera that has not come
out yet based on a handfull of pictures from a few posts.--Look Ma, no film !
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Stew,

Why do you prefer the E-20 in a studio setting?

Does it have something to do with the way each camera meters for flash? (just guessing -- I don't know the details)
Stew said:
Were I in a studio setting, I'd rather have the E-20. If I were a
photojournalist or outdoor photographer, I might slant toward the
D-30. can either camera do both sides? Yep, sure can! But doggone

it, BOTH are great cameras!--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
Click to expand...
 
Jeff,

You answered you on thoughts on this topic at the end of your post.

Chevy vs. Ford. BMW vs. Merc. Canon vs. Nikon.

For reasons best discussed outside dpreview.com, people behave this way for a multitude of reasons.

Attributing it solely to dpreview.com says you haven't been online for very long. You'll soon find that wherever people congregate, pizzing matches will always errupt.

Either learn to live with it and flag the gross perpetrators, or leave it.

Pick one.
 
Dean,

How true! Maybe Jeff sould spend some time in the alt.soc.culture USENET newsgroups. :)

Joo
Dean O said:
Jeff,

You answered you on thoughts on this topic at the end of your post.

Chevy vs. Ford. BMW vs. Merc. Canon vs. Nikon.

For reasons best discussed outside dpreview.com, people behave this
way for a multitude of reasons.

Attributing it solely to dpreview.com says you haven't been online
for very long. You'll soon find that wherever people congregate,
pizzing matches will always errupt.

Either learn to live with it and flag the gross perpetrators, or
leave it.

Pick one.
Click to expand...
 
Min Choi said:
I would have loved to have got the D30, but it costs about $6000
(just for the body) here as opposed to 2200 I paid for E-10. So
noise is something that I'll have to live with.
Click to expand...
$6000 for a D30? Where did you see that? I paid less than what you paid for your E-10 for my D30, $1600 to be exact...

Sorry, but E-10 is not match for D30. Period.

With respect,

--David
 
I think web forums are much better than that ridiculous old-fashioned usenet :)
Joo said:
How true! Maybe Jeff sould spend some time in the alt.soc.culture
USENET newsgroups. :)

Joo
Dean O said:
Jeff,

You answered you on thoughts on this topic at the end of your post.

Chevy vs. Ford. BMW vs. Merc. Canon vs. Nikon.

For reasons best discussed outside dpreview.com, people behave this
way for a multitude of reasons.

Attributing it solely to dpreview.com says you haven't been online
for very long. You'll soon find that wherever people congregate,
pizzing matches will always errupt.

Either learn to live with it and flag the gross perpetrators, or
leave it.

Pick one.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Look Ma, no film !
 
If you price match both cameras, the D30 with a nice zoom (not L glass of course) is about $350 more than an E20. I just did the workup for a gal that was shopping for her husband, using real prices, not dreamland prices.

I was an Oly (C2100) owner, and was looking to move up to get noise free skies (I like to shoot dramatic clouds and skies). I just couldn't get decent skies with the UZI. I looked at the E10 and rejected it for the very reason I was upgrading: noise. I made the jump to the D30 and have never regretted it.

Lately, I recommend anyone I know who is shopping digicams, to stay away from Oly cameras. Too noisy or very bad CA. Strictly based on Phils reviews. And that's coming from a former Oly owner who found no suitable Oly cameras when it came time to upgrade.

The Oly E10/E20 are nice cameras, but bang-for-buck is squarely in the D30 camp.

P.S. What do I need 5mp for? I don't print larger than 8X10, so my D30 will stick around until it's CMOS based successor comes out, and then I'll move up for better features (focus), not more pixels.

--'If you see color, something must be missing'
 
Let me say right up-front that I don't know what I'm talking about :-) !

This is because just opened this thread, and I'm not going to read the almost-50 posts already here.

Just couldn't help but notice that in all those post-titles, The name Oly is everywhere, Nikon appears at least once, and CANON is nowhere to be seen!

That, and the original post-title, have me wondering what is this doing on the Canon SLR forum?

If it is about thread fueding/bashing why spread the poison to another thread?

Obviously, plenty of people find this thread interesting-enough to participate-in, and I know it's less-than-brilliant to comment, given my opening sentence, and I know we frequently wander from ANY topic.

But it seems that this one STARTED-OUT "off-topic",... I just wonder if it NEEDS to be in the Canon SLR forum!?

(slaps-self-in-face)...back to minding-my-own-business!
Larry
 
Peter Gregg said:
In my humble opinion the E10 is a toy compared to the D30. Even in
the huge E10 brochure from Olympus itself, the noise from the
pictures was evident - clearly. I showed it to the Olympus rep and
he almost hung his head in shame. I hung my head in shame with him,
I was embarrased for him.

I personally wonder why anyone would spend the money on an E10 when
there are so many great camera's around. I look at the E10 and I
know I probably would be eaten up with the knowledge that I have an
inferior camera with so much noise at even low ISO's. Every click I
take with the shutter would remind me - gosh, I could have had a
D30!!!! Those clicks would drive me crazy.

Yes the flash is extremely expensive too. Almost the price of
another digital camera. I should also mention the weight of the
camera. Did anyone feel how heavy the E10 is?? You can use it as a
boat anchor. Hanging that around my neck would tire me out fast.
Look at the Minolta D7. Now that camera is in my opinion far better
than the E10. It is light too. My wrist feels pleasure at just how
light it is. I can't recommend the E10 in the light of this
information.

One thing though, it is black, and I love a black camera. Black
cameras look very professional. When you use a black camera you
feel like a profesional. Most professional cameras I have seen,
like the D30 are black. The E10 black color though is off a bit
It's almost like a gray-black. I didn't like the camera and I guess
I don't like the color either. Shame.

Pete
Click to expand...
Hey Pete if it looks like a toy and walks like a toy it must be a toy
 
Ted B. said:
If you price match both cameras, the D30 with a nice zoom (not L
glass of course) is about $350 more than an E20. I just did the
workup for a gal that was shopping for her husband, using real
prices, not dreamland prices.

I was an Oly (C2100) owner, and was looking to move up to get noise
free skies (I like to shoot dramatic clouds and skies). I just
couldn't get decent skies with the UZI. I looked at the E10 and
rejected it for the very reason I was upgrading: noise. I made the
jump to the D30 and have never regretted it.

Lately, I recommend anyone I know who is shopping digicams, to stay
away from Oly cameras. Too noisy or very bad CA. Strictly based
on Phils reviews. And that's coming from a former Oly owner who
found no suitable Oly cameras when it came time to upgrade.

The Oly E10/E20 are nice cameras, but bang-for-buck is squarely in
the D30 camp.

P.S. What do I need 5mp for? I don't print larger than 8X10, so
my D30 will stick around until it's CMOS based successor comes out,
and then I'll move up for better features (focus), not more pixels.
Click to expand...
I agree Ted. I owned a Oly 2000 & a C-2500(also a Nikon 880). None of the p&s cameras come close to the D30 in lack of noise.

I will also upgrade when a D30 replacement comes out but only for features, not image quality.
 
Stew, aside from the obvious differences between the E10/20 and the D30, can you outline some of the things that the E10/20 family can do, or, do better than the D30? That would be much more useful information for me, since I don't own an E10 or 20.

Thanks!
Stew said:
I've been a straight Canon shooter since 1983. My first personal
experience with digital was with a Sony Mavica. For the purpose it
was purchased for, it fit the bill. I soon thereafter had the
opportunity to buy an E-10 for my office at the time. I was like a
kid in a candy store. The E-10 fit the bill perfectly. I was
working in a PR office and we needed something to use for
documentation and newspaper releases. I even shot portraits with
it. It was a very nice camera to use.

All too often, we sit here griping about stuck pixels, etc. I have
often wondered if these same people who do so much bashing have
spent hours in a darkroom working with wet prints.

My take on this whole thing is that while digital imaging may not
be in its infancy anymore, it is, at least, in its adolesence.
We're beginning to get a glimpse of what is going to be, but there
are still some pimples along the way. Both the D-30 and the
E-10/20 have their pros and cons. If I could afford both, I would
get both. Alas, I can't. There's no doubt that the utility of the
two cameras is slightly different with some overlap in the middle.
Were I in a studio setting, I'd rather have the E-20. If I were a
photojournalist or outdoor photographer, I might slant toward the
D-30. can either camera do both sides? Yep, sure can! But doggone
it, BOTH are great cameras!

I think we'll see the line become grayer as Canon announces the
D-30 successor and Oly/Kodak comes out with their first joint
camera.

Just musing

Stew
Click to expand...
 
That's great Stew, but last time I checked, this was not a religious thread. We can engage in civil debate about facts and oppinions, and thumping one another isn't going to add to the quality of the conversations. IMHO.
Stew said:
I'm sure similar phrases are in just about every culture...one of
those "Everything I needed to know I learned in kindergarten"
things. How about this one, though?

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like
unto him."
Proverbs 26:4

Stew
Click to expand...
 
A D30 lens certainly does not cost a lot more than an E10. Whatever on earth gave you that impression? I just picked up a mint condition 28-70mm Canon lens on ebay for a mere $125. And I happen to have many other lenses that I can use on my D30.

It really is true. People who paid the extra money for the D30 were looking at the virtues of a long term investment: Pay a little more now, and save a lot later on lenses and accessories. Let's face it, no matter what P&S camera you buy, it cannot compete with the quality of optics of a good L class Canon lens. They can use their lenses not only on both their film and digital cameras, but if ever they wanted to sell their D30, they would still have lots of good glass for perhaps the next generation of EOS Digital SLR's.
Rudy de Geus said:
E10/20 dead end because fixed lense?? pleazzzeeee...
If i buy an e10/20, i am not after a bag full of lenses, just after
a fine camera. It suits my needs very well, (first of all my budget
ofcourse) All the people here, may say whatever they want, a d30
with lens costs a LOT more than the e10/20.
An the noise issue is very strange, you see it on the screen,
indeed it is much stronger appearant than the d30 noise, but
somehow, even on large prints , it is not noiticeble. Strange.

By the way, not everything on the d30 is better, no live lcd,
something i really like to use for those macro shots.

Anyway, if i had the budget, a Nikon would be the obvious choice,
second the D30, but one has to make choises in life.

And who said here the aolympus accerories are expensive,? the
battery grip for 250$ ???

Rudy
Click to expand...
 
So where's all the D30 photos? Lots of talk but few results.
Yes, go to the Olympus SLR forum and you will "see" results.
Peter Gregg said:
This post is lame. Buy an E10 or E20 and go to the Olympus SLR
forum to talk about it, not here. I don't want to have E10
discussions here.

The E10 is so inferioir to the D30, it is a joke. When Olympus
changed it to the E20 they left the most dreaded part of the camera
in tact - the noise. How anyone would buy a camera with so much
noise is beyond me. I would not buy that camera if it were $500!!!
I would know in my mind, without a shadow of a doubt - every time I
was taking a picture it was full of noise. It would bother me so
much to know my pictures were inferior becaue of the noise in EVERY
frame!

I couldn't even have the E20 as a backup camera. You take a nice
picture for a portrait and you can't enlarge it, it gets so full of
the noise factor in the highlights. Olympus should be ashamed of
itself. Then they take the E10, keep the same price and up it to an
E20 and just add a high sensor! What a joke on people. Who would
buy such a thing and spend their hard earned cash??? You can get a
Minolta D7 for under a thousand dollars and have a MUCH better
camera!! The D7 is lighter, cheaper and it is made by Minolta. It
has an EXCELLENT lens compared to the E10 I saw.

I don't believe you can even say D30 and E20 in the same sentence.
It almost a sin to do so. The D30 has almost NO noise and you can
change the lenses. There is no dust issue with the D30 either. It
is a real pro's type of camera. The E10 feels like a toy to me.

Have you seen the price of the flash that Olympus has married to
the E20? What a ripoff. You can buy a whole other digicam for that
price!!!

All in all, the D30 is a pro's camera and the E20 is a higher end
high noise ameture's camera. I feel bad for the people that bought
it when I know they could have had a D30 and be so much happier.
Eveytime i see somebody with an E10 hanging around their neck, I
feel like going over to them and just saying "I'm sorry".

Just my opinions though, people should get what they really want.

Pete
Click to expand...
--Happy New Year!
 
http://www.dlcphotography.net
LarryD said:
Peter Gregg said:
This post is lame. Buy an E10 or E20 and go to the Olympus SLR
forum to talk about it, not here. I don't want to have E10
discussions here.

The E10 is so inferioir to the D30, it is a joke. When Olympus
changed it to the E20 they left the most dreaded part of the camera
in tact - the noise. How anyone would buy a camera with so much
noise is beyond me. I would not buy that camera if it were $500!!!
I would know in my mind, without a shadow of a doubt - every time I
was taking a picture it was full of noise. It would bother me so
much to know my pictures were inferior becaue of the noise in EVERY
frame!

I couldn't even have the E20 as a backup camera. You take a nice
picture for a portrait and you can't enlarge it, it gets so full of
the noise factor in the highlights. Olympus should be ashamed of
itself. Then they take the E10, keep the same price and up it to an
E20 and just add a high sensor! What a joke on people. Who would
buy such a thing and spend their hard earned cash??? You can get a
Minolta D7 for under a thousand dollars and have a MUCH better
camera!! The D7 is lighter, cheaper and it is made by Minolta. It
has an EXCELLENT lens compared to the E10 I saw.

I don't believe you can even say D30 and E20 in the same sentence.
It almost a sin to do so. The D30 has almost NO noise and you can
change the lenses. There is no dust issue with the D30 either. It
is a real pro's type of camera. The E10 feels like a toy to me.

Have you seen the price of the flash that Olympus has married to
the E20? What a ripoff. You can buy a whole other digicam for that
price!!!

All in all, the D30 is a pro's camera and the E20 is a higher end
high noise ameture's camera. I feel bad for the people that bought
it when I know they could have had a D30 and be so much happier.
Eveytime i see somebody with an E10 hanging around their neck, I
feel like going over to them and just saying "I'm sorry".

Just my opinions though, people should get what they really want.

Pete
Click to expand...
--
Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
 
Great photos Doug!
Doug Walker said:
LarryD said:
Peter Gregg said:
This post is lame. Buy an E10 or E20 and go to the Olympus SLR
forum to talk about it, not here. I don't want to have E10
discussions here.

The E10 is so inferioir to the D30, it is a joke. When Olympus
changed it to the E20 they left the most dreaded part of the camera
in tact - the noise. How anyone would buy a camera with so much
noise is beyond me. I would not buy that camera if it were $500!!!
I would know in my mind, without a shadow of a doubt - every time I
was taking a picture it was full of noise. It would bother me so
much to know my pictures were inferior becaue of the noise in EVERY
frame!

I couldn't even have the E20 as a backup camera. You take a nice
picture for a portrait and you can't enlarge it, it gets so full of
the noise factor in the highlights. Olympus should be ashamed of
itself. Then they take the E10, keep the same price and up it to an
E20 and just add a high sensor! What a joke on people. Who would
buy such a thing and spend their hard earned cash??? You can get a
Minolta D7 for under a thousand dollars and have a MUCH better
camera!! The D7 is lighter, cheaper and it is made by Minolta. It
has an EXCELLENT lens compared to the E10 I saw.

I don't believe you can even say D30 and E20 in the same sentence.
It almost a sin to do so. The D30 has almost NO noise and you can
change the lenses. There is no dust issue with the D30 either. It
is a real pro's type of camera. The E10 feels like a toy to me.

Have you seen the price of the flash that Olympus has married to
the E20? What a ripoff. You can buy a whole other digicam for that
price!!!

All in all, the D30 is a pro's camera and the E20 is a higher end
high noise ameture's camera. I feel bad for the people that bought
it when I know they could have had a D30 and be so much happier.
Eveytime i see somebody with an E10 hanging around their neck, I
feel like going over to them and just saying "I'm sorry".

Just my opinions though, people should get what they really want.

Pete
Click to expand...
--
Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Happy New Year!
 
Don Cohen at dlcphotography is one of the best.

Also try http://www.fredmiranda.com
LarryD said:
Doug Walker said:
LarryD said:
Peter Gregg said:
This post is lame. Buy an E10 or E20 and go to the Olympus SLR
forum to talk about it, not here. I don't want to have E10
discussions here.

The E10 is so inferioir to the D30, it is a joke. When Olympus
changed it to the E20 they left the most dreaded part of the camera
in tact - the noise. How anyone would buy a camera with so much
noise is beyond me. I would not buy that camera if it were $500!!!
I would know in my mind, without a shadow of a doubt - every time I
was taking a picture it was full of noise. It would bother me so
much to know my pictures were inferior becaue of the noise in EVERY
frame!

I couldn't even have the E20 as a backup camera. You take a nice
picture for a portrait and you can't enlarge it, it gets so full of
the noise factor in the highlights. Olympus should be ashamed of
itself. Then they take the E10, keep the same price and up it to an
E20 and just add a high sensor! What a joke on people. Who would
buy such a thing and spend their hard earned cash??? You can get a
Minolta D7 for under a thousand dollars and have a MUCH better
camera!! The D7 is lighter, cheaper and it is made by Minolta. It
has an EXCELLENT lens compared to the E10 I saw.

I don't believe you can even say D30 and E20 in the same sentence.
It almost a sin to do so. The D30 has almost NO noise and you can
change the lenses. There is no dust issue with the D30 either. It
is a real pro's type of camera. The E10 feels like a toy to me.

Have you seen the price of the flash that Olympus has married to
the E20? What a ripoff. You can buy a whole other digicam for that
price!!!

All in all, the D30 is a pro's camera and the E20 is a higher end
high noise ameture's camera. I feel bad for the people that bought
it when I know they could have had a D30 and be so much happier.
Eveytime i see somebody with an E10 hanging around their neck, I
feel like going over to them and just saying "I'm sorry".

Just my opinions though, people should get what they really want.

Pete
Click to expand...
--
Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
 
I highly recommend this schmuck take his Ritalin and go play with his toys. He obviously ISN"T ready to play with adults yet (or adult products). LOL
 
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