900 mm For The E100 / 2100

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knucklehead

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First off, right to the point -- No, it's not quite free from vignetting
as I had hoped for, but still more than worth doing. Take the two TC's
that give the best quality images, put them together, and you get a
lens that still provides an excellent image. There's only a tiny bit of overall
softening Ron the extra glass, some slight shadowy vignetting with
most apertures, and only the slightest loss of focus in the extreme
corners. I know I'll be getting a lot of use out of this setup...

The two best telephoto lenses that we know of for these cameras are
the Canon tl46 with a 1.4X increase in power, and the B300 with 1.7X.
Both give excellent quality images with no vignetting whatsoever - and a
bit of zoom range thrown in for free (a pretty nice zoom range with the
tl46). With the tl you get a nice 530 mm or so out of your 10X lens, and
the b300 gives an even nicer 646 mm. If you stack these two together
it will give a 2.1X increase -- or right about 900 mm.
So far no one has reported on doing this - probably because it's a bit tricky
to attach them together. It's a bit more trouble to glue up than the other
lenses that have been done, but I think well worth the effort.

The problem is how to get some threads on the front of the tl for the b300
to screw on to. After pestering every camera store I could find for every
sort of adapter ring that might possibly fit, I finally settled on smashing yet
another one of my UV filters for progress. A 55 mm filter ring will fit easily

inside the end of the tl. Actually it will fit way too easy, with a whole bunch of
extra clearance. Now it's a question of how to get the ring positioned properly
and glued solidly without messing up the front element of the tl. Here's what
I came up with -

The ingredients:
http://www.fototime.com/ {EF2F120E-C8F2-43F8-8B3D-1821F0001044} picture.JPG

The wire that is cut into four pieces is a canabilized .040 spark plug gauge.
That's pretty much the clearance for centering the filter ring inside the tl.
The next question is, how far in to place the ring. The closer you can get
the lenses, the less of a problem vignetting will be. I used the small piece
of lens cloth to act as a shim to find the minimum clearance you can get
away with. With the front of the filter flush with the front of the tl, the
cloth seems pretty well compressed between the glass. This might be a bit
on the tight side, but that's how I decided to do it. I'll just need to be extra
careful about any grit when screwing the lenses together (grit shouldn't be
there anyway).
I cut the wire in four pieces to the length of the edge of the front lens of
the tl to the front edge of the housing, and then tacked them on to the
side of the filter ring with a tiny bit of silicone.
http://www.fototime.com/ {C480A224-A908-4F32-9D72-B721CEE65C15} picture.JPG

Now you have a ring that will pretty well center itself in the front of the tl
housing.
The next problem is that there is a pretty large gap between the back of the

filter ring and the front of the tl's lens. This is a bit of a gluing challenge. I
wound up putting a pretty large bead of black silicone around the edge of
the lt's front lens and set the ring into it. This formed a dam for the epoxy
that would be put in the gap between the ring and housing (I'm going to cut
short the details here. If anyone wants more information, just ask)

Glued in place
http://www.fototime.com/ {631689AB-B05B-46F4-99B7-9AE2D34D2CB5} picture.JPG

All together
http://www.fototime.com/ {40F20956-D1A6-404E-8AFC-AB5644B7D763} picture.JPG

I've only had a small chance to test out the final setup.
The weather's turned bad so I'll just post a few examples of what I've got
so far. Please, no art critiques. I'll replace these when I get a chance to take
some more.
All were shot with the e100 at full optical zoom, SHQ, camera softening soft.
No post processing.
The first images of the maps are to serve as a sort of resolution chart, and
give a good look at the absolute degree of vignetting. The first shot is with
just the b300, and the other two are with the combo at f 3.5 and f 8.
The rest of the shots are just to give some idea of how it works in more real
world use. I think all were shot at f 5 or higher.

It's the last album:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/69BCF269C22E1B7
 
I'll post this question in the Retouching forum too, but for all the
PS guru's here:

It seem's like it should be fairly easy to compensat for the shadowy
vignetting with post processing, as it's a pretty constant effect at each
apperture. Any thoughts on how best to do this?

Dave
 
For the folks that e-mailed me on this -

I've been holding off on posting any further gluing tips until I got
the chance to try out the same setup with the Olympus TCON 14
instead of the TL 46. Just had a chance to try it with everythig just
held together and it looks like it coud work better. It will take me a
couple of days untill I can get it all glued up and tested. I post
when it's done.

Dave
 
dvt43 wrote:
For the folks that e-mailed me on this -

I've been holding off on posting any further gluing tips until I got
the chance to try out the same setup with the Olympus TCON 14
instead of the TL 46. Just had a chance to try it with everythig just
held together and it looks like it coud work better. It will take me a
couple of days untill I can get it all glued up and tested. I post
when it's done.

Dave
Can't wait to hear/see the results. A lot of us appreciate all your effort!

Thanks Dave.

-- Clicker
 
I take it that you glued the 55mm ring into the TL46. You say you use RTV but will it hold as it tends to be kind of soft. Would epoxy work better and hold better, especially when screwing on the B300? Can you use the TL46 by itself with the ring attatched without any problems? I want to eventually get me a nice tele setup and this looks interesting as you can have variations with it.
--www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
 
I take it that you glued the 55mm ring into the TL46. You say you
use RTV but will it hold as it tends to be kind of soft. Would
epoxy work better and hold better, especially when screwing on the
B300? Can you use the TL46 by itself with the ring attatched
without any problems? I want to eventually get me a nice tele setup
and this looks interesting as you can have variations with it.

--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
There's now some question as to whether the gluing as I did it here
might have damaged the TL 46. Don't try this untill there is some answer to
this.

But... Yes, the tl 46 will still work by itself with the ring inside. You just get
a somewhat diminished zoom range before vignetting sets in. The ring
was set in with first with a bead of silicone to form a dam at the base of
the ring, and then with epoxy to fill in the remaining gap. It's a very strong
connection, which is good, but puts a lot of chemicals right next to the
glass, which might be bad. There's a couple of other ways it might be done.
I think I'll try something different with the TCON.

I do think there's a lot of potential with this approach. The variations are
interesting. Olympus makes the TCON 14b for the E10/20 that has 62mm
mounting threads. That would mate well with the large end of either the TL46
or the little brother TCON 14. I would bet that this would give you a lens with
more power than the B300 along with more zoom range - all for about the
same price as b300's are going for these days. Kinda heavy though.
Worth looking into.

Dave
 
Dave,

I suggest you try JB Weld 'Kwik' epoxy for these tricky projects. It doesn't run and stays put, even upside down. Sets in 4 min. and cures completely in 4hrs. You can even wipe any 'goofs' off with a warm damp rag for about 5 min.. I just used it to permanently fasten a 49-55 sur to the front of my C-180 and it made the job easy and quick.

I love this killer combo II...C-180 to B-300! I picked up the C-180 for that purpose alone, but found that it's a great lens in it's own right. I was afraid that adding the sur to the front would affect the quality or increase the tendency to vignette. I'm pleased that it did not. The C-180 manages to see through that 49mm opening without a hitch. Keeping it out in front seems to be the hot setup.

I've hand held the B-300 in front of my A-200 and the results were crisp to the edges, but there is still a slight vignette at full optical zoom. I mention this so you don't need to go down this trail on your quest for that perfect, 'zoomable' killer combo. Thanks for all your input and thanks to all the others who have paved the way for the rest of us.--Daff
 
Hi Dave,

That finished product looks like a science project of some sort :)

Good work though.

Rey
 
A great job , as usual Dave. Very very nice. Actually impressive. Keep up the good work. JD
First off, right to the point -- No, it's not quite free from
vignetting
as I had hoped for, but still more than worth doing. Take the two TC's
that give the best quality images, put them together, and you get a
lens that still provides an excellent image. There's only a tiny
bit of overall
softening Ron the extra glass, some slight shadowy vignetting with
most apertures, and only the slightest loss of focus in the extreme
corners. I know I'll be getting a lot of use out of this setup...

The two best telephoto lenses that we know of for these cameras are
the Canon tl46 with a 1.4X increase in power, and the B300 with 1.7X.
Both give excellent quality images with no vignetting whatsoever -
and a
bit of zoom range thrown in for free (a pretty nice zoom range with
the
tl46). With the tl you get a nice 530 mm or so out of your 10X
lens, and
the b300 gives an even nicer 646 mm. If you stack these two together
it will give a 2.1X increase -- or right about 900 mm.
So far no one has reported on doing this - probably because it's a
bit tricky
to attach them together. It's a bit more trouble to glue up than
the other
lenses that have been done, but I think well worth the effort.

The problem is how to get some threads on the front of the tl for
the b300
to screw on to. After pestering every camera store I could find for
every
sort of adapter ring that might possibly fit, I finally settled on
smashing yet
another one of my UV filters for progress. A 55 mm filter ring will
fit easily
inside the end of the tl. Actually it will fit way too easy, with a
whole bunch of
extra clearance. Now it's a question of how to get the ring
positioned properly
and glued solidly without messing up the front element of the tl.
Here's what
I came up with -

The ingredients:
http://www.fototime.com/ {EF2F120E-C8F2-43F8-8B3D-1821F0001044} picture.JPG

The wire that is cut into four pieces is a canabilized .040 spark
plug gauge.
That's pretty much the clearance for centering the filter ring
inside the tl.
The next question is, how far in to place the ring. The closer you
can get
the lenses, the less of a problem vignetting will be. I used the
small piece
of lens cloth to act as a shim to find the minimum clearance you
can get
away with. With the front of the filter flush with the front of the
tl, the
cloth seems pretty well compressed between the glass. This might be
a bit
on the tight side, but that's how I decided to do it. I'll just
need to be extra
careful about any grit when screwing the lenses together (grit
shouldn't be
there anyway).
I cut the wire in four pieces to the length of the edge of the
front lens of
the tl to the front edge of the housing, and then tacked them on to
the
side of the filter ring with a tiny bit of silicone.
http://www.fototime.com/ {C480A224-A908-4F32-9D72-B721CEE65C15} picture.JPG

Now you have a ring that will pretty well center itself in the
front of the tl
housing.
The next problem is that there is a pretty large gap between the
back of the
filter ring and the front of the tl's lens. This is a bit of a
gluing challenge. I
wound up putting a pretty large bead of black silicone around the
edge of
the lt's front lens and set the ring into it. This formed a dam for
the epoxy
that would be put in the gap between the ring and housing (I'm
going to cut
short the details here. If anyone wants more information, just ask)

Glued in place
http://www.fototime.com/ {631689AB-B05B-46F4-99B7-9AE2D34D2CB5} picture.JPG

All together
http://www.fototime.com/ {40F20956-D1A6-404E-8AFC-AB5644B7D763} picture.JPG

I've only had a small chance to test out the final setup.
The weather's turned bad so I'll just post a few examples of what
I've got
so far. Please, no art critiques. I'll replace these when I get a
chance to take
some more.
All were shot with the e100 at full optical zoom, SHQ, camera
softening soft.
No post processing.
The first images of the maps are to serve as a sort of resolution
chart, and
give a good look at the absolute degree of vignetting. The first
shot is with
just the b300, and the other two are with the combo at f 3.5 and f 8.
The rest of the shots are just to give some idea of how it works in
more real
world use. I think all were shot at f 5 or higher.

It's the last album:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/69BCF269C22E1B7
 
How about showing us some sample photos with the new rig?
First off, right to the point -- No, it's not quite free from
vignetting
as I had hoped for, but still more than worth doing. Take the two TC's
that give the best quality images, put them together, and you get a
lens that still provides an excellent image. There's only a tiny
bit of overall
softening Ron the extra glass, some slight shadowy vignetting with
most apertures, and only the slightest loss of focus in the extreme
corners. I know I'll be getting a lot of use out of this setup...

The two best telephoto lenses that we know of for these cameras are
the Canon tl46 with a 1.4X increase in power, and the B300 with 1.7X.
Both give excellent quality images with no vignetting whatsoever -
and a
bit of zoom range thrown in for free (a pretty nice zoom range with
the
tl46). With the tl you get a nice 530 mm or so out of your 10X
lens, and
the b300 gives an even nicer 646 mm. If you stack these two together
it will give a 2.1X increase -- or right about 900 mm.
So far no one has reported on doing this - probably because it's a
bit tricky
to attach them together. It's a bit more trouble to glue up than
the other
lenses that have been done, but I think well worth the effort.

The problem is how to get some threads on the front of the tl for
the b300
to screw on to. After pestering every camera store I could find for
every
sort of adapter ring that might possibly fit, I finally settled on
smashing yet
another one of my UV filters for progress. A 55 mm filter ring will
fit easily
inside the end of the tl. Actually it will fit way too easy, with a
whole bunch of
extra clearance. Now it's a question of how to get the ring
positioned properly
and glued solidly without messing up the front element of the tl.
Here's what
I came up with -

The ingredients:
http://www.fototime.com/ {EF2F120E-C8F2-43F8-8B3D-1821F0001044} picture.JPG

The wire that is cut into four pieces is a canabilized .040 spark
plug gauge.
That's pretty much the clearance for centering the filter ring
inside the tl.
The next question is, how far in to place the ring. The closer you
can get
the lenses, the less of a problem vignetting will be. I used the
small piece
of lens cloth to act as a shim to find the minimum clearance you
can get
away with. With the front of the filter flush with the front of the
tl, the
cloth seems pretty well compressed between the glass. This might be
a bit
on the tight side, but that's how I decided to do it. I'll just
need to be extra
careful about any grit when screwing the lenses together (grit
shouldn't be
there anyway).
I cut the wire in four pieces to the length of the edge of the
front lens of
the tl to the front edge of the housing, and then tacked them on to
the
side of the filter ring with a tiny bit of silicone.
http://www.fototime.com/ {C480A224-A908-4F32-9D72-B721CEE65C15} picture.JPG

Now you have a ring that will pretty well center itself in the
front of the tl
housing.
The next problem is that there is a pretty large gap between the
back of the
filter ring and the front of the tl's lens. This is a bit of a
gluing challenge. I
wound up putting a pretty large bead of black silicone around the
edge of
the lt's front lens and set the ring into it. This formed a dam for
the epoxy
that would be put in the gap between the ring and housing (I'm
going to cut
short the details here. If anyone wants more information, just ask)

Glued in place
http://www.fototime.com/ {631689AB-B05B-46F4-99B7-9AE2D34D2CB5} picture.JPG

All together
http://www.fototime.com/ {40F20956-D1A6-404E-8AFC-AB5644B7D763} picture.JPG

I've only had a small chance to test out the final setup.
The weather's turned bad so I'll just post a few examples of what
I've got
so far. Please, no art critiques. I'll replace these when I get a
chance to take
some more.
All were shot with the e100 at full optical zoom, SHQ, camera
softening soft.
No post processing.
The first images of the maps are to serve as a sort of resolution
chart, and
give a good look at the absolute degree of vignetting. The first
shot is with
just the b300, and the other two are with the combo at f 3.5 and f 8.
The rest of the shots are just to give some idea of how it works in
more real
world use. I think all were shot at f 5 or higher.

It's the last album:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/69BCF269C22E1B7
 
Did you ever get the Tcon 14 working. I have made this setup and would be interested to see how yours worked. I used a piece of PVC which slips tightly over the TCON 14. I inserted a ring in the other end to take other types of lens.--Jeff SWB9ZPOUZI 21OO
 
Did you ever get the Tcon 14 working. I have made this setup and
would be interested to see how yours worked. I used a piece of PVC
which slips tightly over the TCON 14. I inserted a ring in the
other end to take other types of lens.
--
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
UZI 21OO
I did get the TCON glued up, but managed to screw up one of the glue

joints - the easy one - the ring on the clip on connection. It's just not seated flush - now I've got a lens like a bent saussage. It works, but I know it's not being all that it can be.

For the front I used a 55mm filter ring. Good, easy fit. I trimmed the TCON's housing back a bit to get the lenses as close as possible.

So far I've managed to mess up the two lenses that I consider the most important (usable) - the 1.4's. I'll try again...

Post some pictures from your setup

Dave
 
Here are a couple I took at about 50 yrds with the Tcon14-B300 combo.

http://www.pbase.com/image/952250

and this one

http://www.pbase.com/image/957653/original

Let me know when you get yours online.

Thanks
--
Jeff S
UZI 21OO
WB9ZPO
I've downloaded your pics and am trying to figgure them out.
Are these cropped much?

There seems to be some chromatic problems with them - esp. in areas outside the focus plane. Is this typical of what your getting?

I've looked through my files, but don't have any similar shots. Pretty much all my use outside was with the TL stack (it just bugged me too much to see my glue mistake to take out the TCON much). Other than the slight vignetting, and very small incerase in CA, I'd have to say the TL combo gives an image quality as good as the B300 alone. I kind of burned out on all the comparison shots a while ago, but might be good to try these two some more in real world use.

I'll try to do a TL - TCON comparison this weekend under similar conditions as your shots.

Dave
 
I resized them but I don't think I cropped them. I did fix them a little in PSE. I have been getting a lot of CA around the target but could be the angle to the sun or whatever.

Be intrested to see your phots when you have the chance.

Thanks for the feedback.--Jeff SUZI 21OOWB9ZPO
 
I resized them but I don't think I cropped them. I did fix them a
little in PSE. I have been getting a lot of CA around the target
but could be the angle to the sun or whatever.

Be intrested to see your phots when you have the chance.

Thanks for the feedback.
--
Jeff S
UZI 21OO
WB9ZPO
I put a few comparison shots of the TL + TCON combos at the end of the same (last) album:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/69BCF269C22E1B7

Just stuck my camera out the back door again.

They're not the best comparison shots - I was rushed and it was windy so the centring is different, and the focus is on different levels. Still good enough to get the general idea - not much difference between them.

The birch tree shows CA that I would call about as bad as I see with these lenses. The other shot shows... well, It shows some branches...

I'm still curious about the CA levels in your shots. How have you beem finding it with further use?

Dave
 

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