is digital too perfect

Painting - don't you believe there is no technical debate. Oils, heat-drying oils, water-based oil;s?!, acrylic... Sable v synthetic brushes, canvas v bioard, papers and the rest.

There is plenty of technology to to talk about and act as a diversion from making pictures!

In any field that are a lot of people who talk about it; rather fewer actually do something serious with the tools. It requires application, work and commitment and most people are too lazy - I know I don't work hard enough at my photography.

--
Martin Wilson
Nottingham, England
 
Did I say the camera makes the photographs? NO Photography comes
from the heart. Camera is just a box to record the image. My
point is that box is getting so smart that people like you won't
have to use your brain!

Tim

--
if it aint shot, go shoot it!
For those who have done photography for some time and tried to take more than just snapshots it soon becomes evident that the "box" is nowhere near smart enough yet - in fact it never will be. The auto modes may give you a technically acceptable image a lot of the time, but not even close to all the time. Even something as basic as exposure is fooled all the time, as is the auto focus. Not to mention all the artistic choices you want to make with regards to content, composition, perspective, depth of field, you name it, the "box" has nothing to offer there. We'll need to use the old brain for quite some time yet.
 
Actually "the Photorgaphy is allways, allready inside ones brain" the camera and lens are just equipments like artist's pencil. Does not matter if One uses film or digital. One just capure the moment as be seen .... and some people just do not have that talent. No matter which equipment they have.

By the way some film directors will first draw the scenes before the actually film them.
--
  • That's my 0,02 € -
  • Ari -


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... Two weeks back I met a pro wedding photographer did
not know what an aperature was!!!! > ...
is this slightly exagerated to illustrate your point?
or did he really not know what an aperture is?
and never seen a light meter before! This has little to do with
photography skills but these are the very basics!
i agree, but little question about the light meter:
usually i use the camera itself as a substitute light meter
half pressing the shutter release, then further adjust using
the under- overexposure value indicated.
Propably a decent light meter will be more accurate, but this/my method
as acceptable for an amateur i would think(?)
 
ditto. people who worry that technology is going to "steal their art" have phobias, inferiority complexes and... probably those phobias are warranted for those individuals. they probably need the point and shoot technology more than those who haven't got time gripe about its effect on their "virility".

technology getting you down, folks? take a viagra. yep.
...that technology, and digital in particular, will be the end of
photography. If you truly feel this way, perhaps you have nothing
original to offer, no matter the medium. In which case, digital at
least makes it cheaper for you to bang away at mediocrity.

Photographers with vision don't give a rat's ass about the medium,
so long as the end result is the same - a stunning print.
--
Garland Cary
 
Painting - don't you believe there is no technical debate. Oils,
heat-drying oils, water-based oil;s?!, acrylic... Sable v synthetic
brushes, canvas v bioard, papers and the rest.
Yeah, but personally I wonder about the long-term effectiveness of acrylics, water-based oils and the likes. My tests with acrylics show they do not hold up under outdoor conditions, which in my mind a month outdoors is probably equivalent to 25 years or so indoors. The oils I use did just fine in my tests.

Lightfastness is something I don't see much discussion of here, but it is an issue when you're selling prints, although it doesn't have much to do with making the photo.
There is plenty of technology to to talk about and act as a
diversion from making pictures!
Have you noticed that? I bop in from time to time and wonder how some of these people can be on these forums enough that they make 25 posts per day. THAT's dedication!! (to the forum).
In any field that are a lot of people who talk about it; rather
fewer actually do something serious with the tools. It requires
application, work and commitment and most people are too lazy - I
know I don't work hard enough at my photography.
Right. Most of the people I've known coming up through the ranks in the art world have dropped off and just "don't have time for art" anymore.

Lot's of very talented people without the commitment.
--
Martin Wilson
Nottingham, England
--
peace.
 
...is accessibility. It used to be there were barriers to entry in the photography world. You had to have a (for the time) expensive camera - either good 35mm or medium format. You had to know what you were doing with respect to film, filters, printing and developing. In the field, you had to be able to make the right choices with the technical side of things to bring the picture home. This was in addition to your ability to compose a shot and choose the correct moment. You also had to get it right more than you got it wrong, because film and developing did cost money - and space - and hassle. A person who could put all of that together was called a photographer.

Now most of this has changed. All of the "craft" stuff associated with film is gone. You don't need to know about film types or speeds because it can all be done in-camera. You don't need to know about developing because many pictures never see paper these days. If you need prints, you do them yourself on a $500 printer. Equipment is less expensive overall (adjusted for inflation) - a Rebel with a kit lens will produce great results in a pretty wide range of conditions. Adding a few pro lenses only makes it better.

But the biggest, most significant change is the fact that it cost almost nothing to take hundreds of photographs, and you can see if you are right while standing at the location. This changes everything. A person doesn't have to always be the best technically - they just have to be persistent and know which buttons to press to make the appropriate adjustments.

What this means is the value of the tradecraft has diminished significantly, and what you're left with is the actual art of photography. Good photographers have become better photographers in the digital world. Average to poor photographers are now seen for what they are because they can't hide behind a bunch of tradecraft that nobody understood. If you stink at composition, you have no excuses now.

It also means that people with little technical background but significant artistic skills can enter into the world of photography. Art directors are buying $1,000 digital cameras in droves and they are producing great work because they have excellent artistic and compositional skills. They still can't light worth a darn, and their files probably aren't as tight as a pro, but they are good enough for what they need.

This is the problem with doing photography as a business these days. Photographers used to have a monopoly because nobody wanted to tackle the technical side of taking photos. If you wanted an image, you had to go to a photographer. Now a huge number of images can be made just fine by the customer with their own cameras, and they can call the photographer only when they need something really special - or don't have time to do it themselves.

I think we're at a great point in photography. It is good that there are more people than ever taking photos. The emphasis should be on the art and not who has the magic combination of film and chemicals.
 
Camera Eye:

You are correct, digital is too perfect, and I'm using it as an excuse to return to my true passion and always changing previous hobby.
GIRLS.
 
In other words, it will never be human. The complex word processor will be useless for just a monkey.

No offense to monkeys or those who like them, it's just a monkey. They have no ability to learn how to word-process or even truely speak our languages.

Please, do not go into the "tricks" they can be taught. Their ability to reason as we do is not what some might wish to think. Look how they've lived for millenniums when left alone.

Like I said, they're just monkeys.

Robert
 
as a matter of fact, in not so many words, you did say that the camera makes the photograph. And you're so far off base with "no photography comes from the heart" statement that I don't even know where to begin. It's evident to me that you are one of those that believes that setting aperture, shutter speed, focus, etc., correctly is the objective of photography. I believe that most dSLRs will allow you to operate in this fashion, manually, so be my guest.

Yes, it's easier now than before to get a somewhat well exposed, in focus image, but creating an image that SAYS something... a computer and a light-tight box will never do. Won't happen.

This from someone (me) who has labored with view cameras to set focus, on a darkened ground glass, upside down and backwards, exposure with only a handheld meter, etc. Having these things done for me FREES me up to concentrate on making the image, and takes nothing away from "photography".

My .02.........

Mark (not Marc)
Did I say the camera makes the photographs? NO Photography comes
from the heart. Camera is just a box to record the image. My
point is that box is getting so smart that people like you won't
have to use your brain!

Tim

--
if it aint shot, go shoot it!
 
...we must find ways to make it even MORE perfect! :-)

The photographer must be made obsolete.

Let the auto-cameras take the pictures.

Then we can get on with real life!

Larry
 
Technology that gets too perfect will destroy photography as we
know it. In time this trade will be lost to button pushers that
need not know or understand anything about photography because the
camera will do it ALL. Look how far technology has come in less
than five years what will become of all this throw away technology
of today? Your $3000.00 5D paper weight will be at your local pawn
shop for $50.00 no one will buy it.
I have a modicum of support for those thoughts above.
Everyone wants IS camera body
Not me
auto this and auto that
not me
not me
we don't want to think anymore do
we?
Republicans never did!
We just want to push a button and presto its perfect.
What fun is that?

50 years from now, someone will be observing a picture exhibition in some gallery and be completely drawn to an image that would not have been captured by all of those do-everything cameras. This IS the difference between technology and ART!
--
Mitch
 
...

if the camera makes everything itself then there can be more concentration on the composition and on what you shoot.

and if you want to you can still shoot all manual. i do so many times and most other professionals also do.
regards
thomas
 

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