Canon or Fuji.. sadly can't afford Nikon

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for. I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots (at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that (a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after, even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Have you considered used D1? It is about the same price as new S1 or D30.

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice
with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that
(a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So
thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one
for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting
words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after,
even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the
line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Click to expand...

Hi Frank,

I had considered it and there was a discussion around it on here. The general feeling being that there is a certain risk in purchasing second hand kit and especially second hand electronic kit which I am inclined to agree with. The advantage of buying new being that you have full control of the how it is treated from day one.. plus that new box experience

If anyone else has had a good experience doing as you suggested I would be interested.

Frank said:

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice
with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that
(a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So
thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one
for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting
words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after,
even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the
line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--Craig

If you don't need narrow depth of field, the E-20 is a serious camera. You can check that at http://www.belgiumdigital.com where there are several samples posted.

Bart

Craig Menzies said:

I had considered it and there was a discussion around it on here.
The general feeling being that there is a certain risk in
purchasing second hand kit and especially second hand electronic
kit which I am inclined to agree with. The advantage of buying new
being that you have full control of the how it is treated from day
one.. plus that new box experience

If anyone else has had a good experience doing as you suggested I
would be interested.

Frank said:

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice
with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that
(a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So
thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one
for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting
words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after,
even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the
line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

Craig

Click to expand...

OK, here comes my 2 cents worth. The Fuji S1 is built upon the Nikon N60 body, so you can look at a current N65 and decide if the build quality is sufficient for you. I used an S1 for a year shooting mainly dog agility shows, outdoors in fields with plenty of dogs and people running around. Never had a problem at all. I would expect exactly the same from the Canon D30, I purchased the S1 as I already had Nikon lenses and the D30 wasn't around yet anyway.

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels" better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the D30 does.

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60 body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses, then the D1 is the way to go.

Be sure, when you are looking at your budget, that you don't forget to add in the cost of whichever lenses you feel you will need. As to the Oly E20, remember that the true D-SLR interchangeable lens will give you much more flexibility.

Good luck,

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice
with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that
(a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So
thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one
for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting
words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after,
even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the
line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Click to expand...

--Bill Deweywww.deweydrive.com

I seem to be one step in front of you.

I bought a 6800 earlier this year - great quality pics from such a small device, but limited compared to my Canon SLR.

The Oly 10/20 have limited lens choices esp for landscapes.

So I agree the choice is between D30 and S1 and have spent months agonising on which to buy. I doubt you'll find anyone to make your mind up for you either.
(Phil sits on the fence in his review conclusions - and rightfully so)

Speaking as an enthusiastic amateur - the D30 has a superior body, the S1 has the superior image quality. Maybe the D30 can be tweaked to equal the S1 in post processing, but straight out of the camera it's no contest.

Since my goal is nice pics, I chose the S1. The body is fine by the way having spent that much on it, I'm not going to bash it about anyway.

So far I am very happy, the quality is much better than my 6800 which I put down to better lenses.

Either way, don't forget to budget for your lenses.

Good luck - D30 or S1 you'll be happy so just do it.

Regards

Peter

Bill Dewey said:

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bill Dewey said:

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest
you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels"
better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash
control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major
difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the
D30 does.

Click to expand...

The D30 also has a RAW file format, DOF preview, a decent framerate and excellent battery life.

Bill Dewey said:

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is
essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60
body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is
superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in
post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses,
then the D1 is the way to go.

Click to expand...

The D30 supports Canon's entire range of EOS mount lenses with NO exceptions.

Andrew, you are absolutely correct. I know that with the S1 the lens and flash issues are limitations of the N60 body, nothing to do with the Fuji Digital guts whatsoever. Unfortunately for Fuji this was the only body that Nikon was willing to sell them, Canon had the luxury of picking there own "consumer" body (gosh, I hate that term) to use.

As to the utility of RAW format vs. JPEG, I can tell you that I often use the RAW NEF format with my D1H. It is nice to have that additional control.

The difficulty with choosing between the two, assuming that you have no investment in a set of lenses, is that you have to decide which of these feature sets most closely aligns with what you want to do.

Andrew Grant said:

Bill Dewey said:

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest
you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels"
better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash
control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major
difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the
D30 does.

Click to expand...

The D30 also has a RAW file format, DOF preview, a decent framerate
and excellent battery life.

Andrew Grant27981 said:

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is
essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60
body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is
superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in
post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses,
then the D1 is the way to go.

Click to expand...

The D30 supports Canon's entire range of EOS mount lenses with NO
exceptions.

Click to expand...

--Bill Deweywww.deweydrive.com

Thank you to everyone that took their valuable time to reply with some great comments and opinions. Good to hear that people are using the S1 outside and not just in the studio !!

Not having any lenses I guess makes the choice harder as I don't have a foot in any camp. It may well be a case of going down to Jessops and having a feel to see which one wants to go home with me more for Christmas. I have discounted the Oly Ex0 for now, if I plan to pursue my interest and stretch my somewhat limited skills the ability to swap lenses will be something I'll end up craving.

keep the comments coming.

Regards

Craig
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Dewey said:

As to the utility of RAW format vs. JPEG, I can tell you that I
often use the RAW NEF format with my D1H. It is nice to have that
additional control.

The difficulty with choosing between the two, assuming that you
have no investment in a set of lenses, is that you have to decide
which of these feature sets most closely aligns with what you want
to do.

Andrew Grant said:

Bill Dewey said:

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest
you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels"
better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash
control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major
difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the
D30 does.

Click to expand...

The D30 also has a RAW file format, DOF preview, a decent framerate
and excellent battery life.

Bill Dewey said:

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is
essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60
body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is
superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in
post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses,
then the D1 is the way to go.

Click to expand...

The D30 supports Canon's entire range of EOS mount lenses with NO
exceptions.

Click to expand...

--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com

Click to expand...

--Craig

Don't forget the 1 gig microdrive. I vote S1
Raul

Craig Menzies said:

Not having any lenses I guess makes the choice harder as I don't
have a foot in any camp. It may well be a case of going down to
Jessops and having a feel to see which one wants to go home with me
more for Christmas. I have discounted the Oly Ex0 for now, if I
plan to pursue my interest and stretch my somewhat limited skills
the ability to swap lenses will be something I'll end up craving.

keep the comments coming.

Regards

Craig
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Dewey said:

As to the utility of RAW format vs. JPEG, I can tell you that I
often use the RAW NEF format with my D1H. It is nice to have that
additional control.

The difficulty with choosing between the two, assuming that you
have no investment in a set of lenses, is that you have to decide
which of these feature sets most closely aligns with what you want
to do.

Andrew Grant said:

Bill Dewey said:

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest
you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels"
better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash
control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major
difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the
D30 does.

Click to expand...

The D30 also has a RAW file format, DOF preview, a decent framerate
and excellent battery life.

Craig Menzies said:

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is
essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60
body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is
superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in
post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses,
then the D1 is the way to go.

Click to expand...

The D30 supports Canon's entire range of EOS mount lenses with NO
exceptions.

Click to expand...

--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com

Click to expand...

--

Craig

Click to expand...

What does TTL mean? (Through The Lens) I think the S1 does have TTL capability. When I use my SB 28 on my S1 in Program mode the meter in the camera controls the flash. That means the light going through the lens striking the CCD is being metered. Please explain if that isn't TTL?

As to the question of S1 or D30, I would go for the S1 for image quality. I have used my S1 in studio and following soldiers around in the field and like all cameras I have owned I am careful but it takes a resonable number of knocks.

Martin Greeson

Bill Dewey said:

If you have no current investment in lenses, then I would suggest
you go to your local store and handle each one, see which "feels"
better and which has the feature set, specifically camera and flash
control, that suits your needs. I believe that one major
difference here is that the S1 does not support TTL flash but the
D30 does.

Now, as to the used D1 route, what you are getting here is
essentially the difference between a Nikon F100 body and the N60
body. You will find, at least I did, that the color from the S1 is
superior to that from the D1, but the D1 is easily fixed in
post-processing. If you want to use the latest Nikon AFS lenses,
then the D1 is the way to go.

Be sure, when you are looking at your budget, that you don't forget
to add in the cost of whichever lenses you feel you will need. As
to the Oly E20, remember that the true D-SLR interchangeable lens
will give you much more flexibility.

Good luck,

Craig Menzies said:

I know this is the most common question asked on all the different
forums around the web, the question on which camera to go for.
I've had a Fuji 4700Z for around a year now and basically I'm
fairly happy with it but want to move up the quality level.

The majority of my activity will be outside doing countryside shots
(at different times of the day) and urban scenes, unlikely to do
any serious studio work worth mentioning.

The camera is for my own pleasure and to build up my own
photography skills but aspire to do some commercial work if I can
find my niche.

I can probably run to around £2,500 and the S1 seemed a good choice
with current offers including the 1GB Microdrive but I've read that
(a) The build quality is poor (b) Better suited to studio work. So
thought about the D30 instead but not sure how much I could get one
for with a reasonable lense.

Then I started looking at the OLY E20 but again heard some doubting
words about its capability.

I know everyone has their own opinions and that is all I'm after,
even if the opinion is to wait 6 months to see what comes down the
line.

Many thanks all... and Merry Christmas

Click to expand...

--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com

Click to expand...

My own experience is similar to yours but about 9 months ago. I had a Kodak DC280 and I was getting frustrated with the lack of manual controls, and I was initially tempted by the S1 Pro, as all the marketing bumf looked great. I didn't even know the D30 existed.

I am a complete amateur, with only a slight desire at the moment to try to sell some pictures, but I wanted to cover at least three events in the summer - two friends weddings and the WOMAD festival. Rental seemed like a good option, so I contacted Calumet in Euston (London for the foreigners for their rates. The guy recommended that I have a serious look at the D30 as opposed to the S1Pro as many of their customers were preferring that. That. coindidentally, is when I discovered DPReview

I noted that regardless of whether I rented an S1 or a D30, the cost for three long weekends would be about 1/3rd of buying the whole lot. Hum, har, hmm - oh, sod it I thought...

To try to cut a very long story short, I ended up paying £1,850 for a D30 from Dixon's (who did a price match to a more remote store) and then bought a coupld of lenses - 28mm f/2.8 used for £125 and a (cheap) 80-200mm for £140. I had a 128MB CF card from the Kodak, and borrowed a friends 340MB MD for a couple of weeks.

I quickly acquired a couple of 1GB MDs from http://www.scan.co.uk for about £300 each and got lense-itis.

For your budget of £2,500 you can get a D30 + 'Pro' kit from http://www.digitalfirst.com (I can recommend them from experiece even if their web site is a bit sucky and in fact down just now as I try to check a price) for about £2,100 - then but a couple of cheap lenses - the 28-135IS is about £370 from most places and a very good general purpose lense...

I like the D30 for the simple fact that without the optional battery grip (in the pro kit above) the camera is normal SLR sized - some people like the chunky motor-wind sizes of the D1/S1/1D etc but I like the smaller sizes for outdoor walking around.

Anyway, enough wittering, but good luck with whatever you choose. Just remember you almost lock yourself into a system once you start collecting lenses...--Peter Galbavy http://www.wonderland.org/Help decode CRW files: http://www.wonderland.org/crw/

Raul said:

Don't forget the 1 gig microdrive. I vote S1
Raul

Click to expand...

You get one with the D30 also.

Raul said:

Craig Menzies said:

Thank you to everyone that took their valuable time to reply with

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Raul said:

Raul said:

the ability to swap lenses will be something I'll end up craving.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Speaking of which, the Canon system has some interesting lenses that the Nikon system does not e.g. three Tilt/Shift lenses, a 5x macro, image stabilziation and silent highspeed focusing in the same lens (several examples both zoom and prime, one of which is fairly inexpensive). Nikon has only one image stabilized lens with the old style slow focusing and the S1 body cannot use it anyway (except as a regular lens) . The S1 cannot use the silent focusing lenses either.