Celeron-based PC - OK for graphics work?

Truelight · Oct 31, 2001

I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)
Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?
Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)
Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Brian · Oct 31, 2001

Ditch Intel and never look back. Price/performance of AMD kills Intel, no questions asked. You could get a get a system based on a AMD Duron 750 with 512MB ram that would run circles around any Intel with similar clock speed. If you kept your monitor and just upgraded the box, you'd be paying around $500-600 for a fast low end system. I looked at Micropro and they offer one for under $500 (of course shipping is seperate).

AMD processors handle graphics far better than intel systems do. That is why I really recommend AMD for this.

Truelight said:
I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo
work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine
with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB
ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine
with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer
budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the
Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be
better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)

Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?

Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)

Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Eric Jacobsen · Oct 31, 2001

I have a Celeron 400 Mhz Emachine at home & a 600 Mhz PIII at work. Any Celeron is probably better than your PII, but Celeron have less or no onboard cache, or somehting like that, that is why they are cheaper than PIIIs. A PIII or P4 is much better for graphics. The true king is the Athlon XP. Not only is it measurably faster at graphics than a P4 (even if the P4 has a higher clock speed) but it uses DD Ram which is much cheaper than Rambus RAM that the P4 is designed to use. There are P4 machines that have motherboards that use the old SDRAM but this is slower than DD RAM and RAmbus RAM, so what is the point of getting a P4.

Since SDRAM and DD RAM are both so cheap, the most cost effective way to increase performance is to load up the RAM to at least 512 MB. just make sure you buy a computer that can use it.

My recomendations:
1. there is nothing worth salvaging on your PII

2. A Celeron or PIII machine is also a dead end but much better than you have now. If you are real impatient, I would buy the fastest PIII and put at least 512Mb ram. make sure that the one you buy can will take that much ram, my Emachine will only use 256MB

3. get it with windows XP already loaded. XP is a mutant form of Win2000 which handles memory & large files much better than 98 or 95

one final note DON'T EVEN THINK OF BUYING AN EMACHINE. I have had to restore my hard drive six times in the last two weeks while trying to upgrade the moden & software. for more info do a internet search on Emachine problems.

Marty Scher B · Oct 31, 2001

Are you quoting brand name (Compaq, Dell, etc.) prices?

I have recently built a 1.4Ghz Athalon with 100GB hard drrive, ATI Radion video card, premium sound, dvd drive and 19" monitor for less than $1000.

Prices have dropped (even for the P4) since then.

Clones can be as good as any name brand PC.

Good luck.

Truelight said:
I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo
work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine
with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB
ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine
with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer
budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the
Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be
better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)

Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?

Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)

Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Marty Scher B · Oct 31, 2001

I also wanted to add, IMO upgrading ANY older system is a complete waste of time and money.

1. Memory upgrades for older system architectures can be higher in price than newer, faster RAMs systems (supply and demand?).

2. It is likely you will have problems putting a 50GB ATA hard drive in a system designed when 1.2GB was the max.

3. Newer apps need DirectX support that older video cards may not support. If you upgrade your video card, you may not have the proper AGP slot that the better video cards need.

For the price any new systems, an upgrade is not worth it.

Truelight said:
I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo
work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine
with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB
ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine
with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer
budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the
Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be
better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)

Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?

Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)

Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Brian · Oct 31, 2001

Most PII systems use SDRAM which is dirt cheap right now. going from 64MB up to 256MB can help quite a bit for photoshop work. It won't speed the actual processing of the photos, but it will let you work faster because it isn't constantly dumping info to your HD.

Of course most of the other upgrades you do probably are more of a waste of money than anything else.

Marty Scher B said:
1. Memory upgrades for older system architectures can be higher in
price than newer, faster RAMs systems (supply and demand?).

2. It is likely you will have problems putting a 50GB ATA hard
drive in a system designed when 1.2GB was the max.

3. Newer apps need DirectX support that older video cards may not
support. If you upgrade your video card, you may not have the
proper AGP slot that the better video cards need.

For the price any new systems, an upgrade is not worth it.

Truelight said:

I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo
work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine
with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB
ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine
with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer
budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the
Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be
better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)

Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?

Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)

Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Click to expand...

Truelight · Oct 31, 2001

Marty...

You wrote--

Marty Scher B said:
Marty Scher B said:

I have recently built a 1.4Ghz Athalon with 100GB hard drrive, ATI Radion video card, premium sound, dvd drive and 19" monitor for less than $1000.

Click to expand...

Built? I'm not into building my own system. Can a system like this be found off-the-shelf under $1K?

Rick

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. · Oct 31, 2001

Rick, Tiger Direct 1-800-888-4437 has a 1500+ Athalon XP sysytem, 256mb ram, 60gig ATA 100 HD, DVD & CD-RW, NVidia TNT2 32meg video card, soundblaster w/ 3 speakers and XP installed for $839.99 ... the monitor is extra, (they have a 21" NEC/Mitsubishi 1600x1200 Monitor for an additional $399.99)
Regards
Karl

BTW: the real graphics work is done by the processor's MPU ... Athalon's beat the socks off of P4's

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. · Oct 31, 2001

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
Rick, Tiger Direct 1-800-888-4437 has a 1500+ Athalon XP sysytem,
256mb ram, 60gig ATA 100 HD, DVD & CD-RW, NVidia TNT2 32meg video
card, soundblaster w/ 3 speakers and XP installed for $839.99 ...
the monitor is extra, (they have a 21" NEC/Mitsubishi 1600x1200
Monitor for an additional $399.99)
Regards
Karl
BTW: the real graphics work is done by the processor's MPU ...
Athalon's beat the socks off of P4's

Sorry forgot to add ... it's actually 256mb PC2100 DDR ram rather than SDRAM

Robert Blackwell · Oct 31, 2001

You can get a P4 that will fit your budget.

Depending on what you really want to spend I would get a Dell 4300

NOT including shipping this is what I have built for you.

Only $968 + shipping

Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:40:40 PM CDT
Catalog Number: 29 19

Dell Dimension 4300 Series: Dimension® 4300 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 1.6 GHz

Memory: 128MB SDRAM

Keyboard: Dell® Enhanced Quiet Key Keyboard

Monitor: 15 in (13.8 viewable) E551 Monitor

Video Card: 16MB ATI Rage Ultra 4X AGP Graphics Card

Hard Drive: 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive

Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® ME w/free XP Home Upgrade Coupon¹²

Mouse: MS IntelliMouse®

Modem: 56K PCI Data Fax Modem for Windows

DVD ROM or CD-ROM Drive: 48x Max Variable CD ROM

Sound Card: Integrated Audio with Soundblaster Pro 16 Compatibility

Speakers: Harman Kardon Speakers

Bundled Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2001 with Money 2001 Standard

Norton Antivirus® at no additional charge: Norton Antivirus® 2002

Digital Imaging Software: Image Expert® 2000, Dell Edition ($0)

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3Yr Ltd. Warranty- 3Yrs At-Home Service + Lifetime Phone Support
S3OS
Internet Access Options: 6 Month Dellnet® by MSN Internet Access

No here is the other trick. NEVER BUY MORE THEN THE LEAST amount of ram on a system...why? Cause they are MAKING MONEY OFF OF YOU!!

go to http://www.crucial.com and you can get a 256 stick with FREE 2nd day shipping for only like $32.99 OR a 512 chip for $56.69

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=Dimension+4300+Series&x=18&y=15

No Dell charges 80 bucks to upgrade to a 256 chip or $240 for 512 Ram

LOOK HOW MUCH YOU SAVE!

Good luck!

Brian · Oct 31, 2001

Reading specs like this makes me think of putting a Mustang engine in a tempo. You got an engine with lots of potential, but everything surrounding it is slowing it down.

On top of that, Dell typically uses some highly integrated motherboard that is next to impossible to upgrade. I could only recomend a Dell to those people who think they must have a brand name computer and are scared to death to open their computer. They have never been known as speedy computers, rather their only selling point is tech support.

Robert Blackwell said:
You can get a P4 that will fit your budget.

Depending on what you really want to spend I would get a Dell 4300

NOT including shipping this is what I have built for you.

Only $968 + shipping

Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:40:40 PM CDT
Catalog Number: 29 19
Dell Dimension 4300 Series: Dimension® 4300 Series, Pentium® 4
Processor at 1.6 GHz

Memory: 128MB SDRAM

Keyboard: Dell® Enhanced Quiet Key Keyboard

Monitor: 15 in (13.8 viewable) E551 Monitor

Video Card: 16MB ATI Rage Ultra 4X AGP Graphics Card

Hard Drive: 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive

Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® ME w/free XP Home Upgrade
Coupon¹²

Mouse: MS IntelliMouse®

Modem: 56K PCI Data Fax Modem for Windows

DVD ROM or CD-ROM Drive: 48x Max Variable CD ROM

Sound Card: Integrated Audio with Soundblaster Pro 16 Compatibility

Speakers: Harman Kardon Speakers

Bundled Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2001 with Money 2001 Standard

Norton Antivirus® at no additional charge: Norton Antivirus® 2002

Digital Imaging Software: Image Expert® 2000, Dell Edition ($0)

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3Yr Ltd. Warranty-
3Yrs At-Home Service + Lifetime Phone Support
S3OS
Internet Access Options: 6 Month Dellnet® by MSN Internet Access

No here is the other trick. NEVER BUY MORE THEN THE LEAST amount of
ram on a system...why? Cause they are MAKING MONEY OFF OF YOU!!

go to http://www.crucial.com and you can get a 256 stick with FREE 2nd day
shipping for only like $32.99 OR a 512 chip for $56.69

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=Dimension+4300+Series&x=18&y=15

No Dell charges 80 bucks to upgrade to a 256 chip or $240 for 512 Ram

LOOK HOW MUCH YOU SAVE!

Good luck!

charlie wallace · Oct 31, 2001

frys has bare bones system for around $300-$400 get one and transfer over the bits it doesnt have from your old PC, you may need memory, which is dirt cheap at the moment, everything else will transfer

or get a refurbished dell, they are cheap , reliable and excellent performers.
a 1g celery 40gb drive for $600 or $400 for a 900 with a 20gig hard disk
go to http://www.dell.com select home users, then refurbished systems.
check out the 2100 seriesm they are reasonably quick systems too

they are waranteed , and you really can't go wrong, so you can't upgrade the motherboard, at those prices who cares.

i use dells for my work machines and servers and they perform flawlessly, fast and reliable. (and i open mine up all the time, my precision workstations are fantastic, couple of button presses and the whole thing opens up to get right into it.

charlie

Truelight said:
I'd really like to buy a new computer to use with my digital photo
work. I'm limping along on a now 4-year old P-II 200Mhz machine
with a 4 GB hard drive under Win 95. (Can't even utilize the USB
ports under Win 95)Sure, I'd like to get a nice P-4, 2G Mhz machine
with all the bells and whistles, but unfortunately, I'm on a "beer
budget." Most of the sub-$1,000 machines seem to be based on the
Celeron (instead of the Athlon or P-4) processor. Would I be
better to:

Get a Celeron-based machine - (at least better than what I have)

Try to 'soup-up' my existing P-II machine?

Get a P-III machine (some good prices seem to be found here)

Wait, save my money, and get a P-4 or Athlon-based machine?

What would you do?

Thanks....
Rick

Bill42690 · Oct 31, 2001

I pretty much agree with Karl. Tiger's package gives you a lot more bang for the buck than the Dell: 20 gig bigger hard drive, better video card (not sure, but Dell's is probably built into the MB), a CD-RW (Dell doesn't have at all), probably a better sound card (can't tell about Tiger's, but Dell's is built into -integrated- the MB and is about as basic as you can get. Twice as much RAM with the Tiger, too. Tiger doesn't appear to have bundled software, but that's OK with me because most bundled software is almost useless anyway. Is already loaded with XP - don't have to upgrade.

Can't say I'd buy the Tiger personally, only because you can get a pretty decent deal from a local computer store (Or put it together yourself and save even more). However, I have dealt with Tiger in the past several times and found them to be easy to work with. I had some problems with a botched order and once with defective hardware, and they took care of it with no problems at all and shipped replacements overnight at their cost.

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:

Rick, Tiger Direct 1-800-888-4437 has a 1500+ Athalon XP sysytem,
256mb ram, 60gig ATA 100 HD, DVD & CD-RW, NVidia TNT2 32meg video
card, soundblaster w/ 3 speakers and XP installed for $839.99 ...
the monitor is extra, (they have a 21" NEC/Mitsubishi 1600x1200
Monitor for an additional $399.99)
Regards
Karl
BTW: the real graphics work is done by the processor's MPU ...
Athalon's beat the socks off of P4's

Click to expand...

Sorry forgot to add ... it's actually 256mb PC2100 DDR ram rather
than SDRAM

charlie wallace · Nov 1, 2001

Karl,
its an NVIDIA Geforce 2 not a TNT2

its also a quantispeed, though the Athlon is nearly always a much better CPU than the P4, but i'd be wary of saying its always equivalent to a 1.5ghz P4, but mostly it would be.

good system hard to beat pricewise.

never heard of systemax, i wonder who makes the motherboard, looks like microstars for the P4s and Aopens for the Athlons

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
Rick, Tiger Direct 1-800-888-4437 has a 1500+ Athalon XP sysytem,
256mb ram, 60gig ATA 100 HD, DVD & CD-RW, NVidia TNT2 32meg video
card, soundblaster w/ 3 speakers and XP installed for $839.99 ...
the monitor is extra, (they have a 21" NEC/Mitsubishi 1600x1200
Monitor for an additional $399.99)
Regards
Karl
BTW: the real graphics work is done by the processor's MPU ...
Athalon's beat the socks off of P4's

Marty Scher B · Nov 1, 2001

I just contacted the place I purchased my parts (except for the monitor) and they said they would have assembled/tested the PC for free. Most other vendors will assemble the system for free or minimal charge.

I have received good service/prices from - http://www.tccomputers.com , but there are hundreds of others between lousy and wonderful. Don't just shop for lowest prices.

I purchased my 19" KDS trinitron monitor from Best Buy for $300 after rebate.

I'ts like anything else, if you want to save money, you have to work a little more. Kinda like buying a camera!

This was the first clone I had built in 8 years and the difference in clone components is phenomenal. The innards look as well designed as any Compaq Deskpro. My system has not so much as blinked in 3 months ofcontinous operation.

Good

Truelight said:
You wrote--

Member said:

Member said:

I have recently built a 1.4Ghz Athalon with 100GB hard drrive, ATI Radion video card, premium sound, dvd drive and 19" monitor for less than $1000.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Built? I'm not into building my own system. Can a system like
this be found off-the-shelf under $1K?

Rick

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