Generic NP-400 batteries - dying

Almost all the ebay vendors claim to have
safety circuitry for their NP400's.
Not sure how to test that claim.

Additionally:
All 3 of mine had that claim, but the batteries
are near-dead after 1 year, which is
another unrelated issue to consider - longevity.

--
Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://mattcham.fotopic.net/

--
Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://mattcham.fotopic.net/

mipr said:

Isn't it that you have got what you paid for?

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Possible, but you need to buy/test generics in order
to know whether you're paying more than what you're
getting with KM NP400...

Despite this "lesson" it may still be better to
replace cheap batteries every year than pay
a larger price upfront. I just hope the $10
battery doesn't explode in my $1000 camera
while simultaneously voiding its warranty!
That would be the worse case scenario,
and quite bad indeed.

On the other hand, I don't really feel like
paying ~$400 for 8 KM batteries for a $1,000
camera. ;-)

--
Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://mattcham.fotopic.net/

Why anyone would spend $1000 plus on a camera and then try to save a few bucks by buying cheap aftermarket batteries, which could potentially trash said camera and send the $1000 spent on it down the drain, is beyond me.

radimus said:

Why anyone would spend $1000 plus on a camera and then try to save
a few bucks by buying cheap aftermarket batteries, which could
potentially trash said camera and send the $1000 spent on it down
the drain, is beyond me.

Click to expand...

You're not looking at the entire picture... Would you spend $500 on a camera and then $300 on batteries? Which from a lot if the info posted on this site doesn't provide a lot of benefit over the low dollar versions. (read some of the other postings on this, not just this thread...)

Some of you guys here at this site really have a narrow perspective which seems strange since photography can be an art form, a hobby and a profession. As well, partaken in by people with very shallow to very deep pockets! Maybe shooting with a wide angle lens more would help, i know comments like above sure don't.
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...Dennis

You test it by discharging the battery under a controlled load and then (very carefully since they can explode in your face) tearing the battery apart to see exactly what is or isn't inside and the quality of the actual construction including the thickness of the case and quality of the seals.

Read the link I posted before from James Attfield who has actually tested and torn down a large number of batteries. Then you'll see how believable are some of the claims of safety and quality from various vendors. SterklingTek (mentioned elsewhere in this thread and others) comes out poorly.
http://t5r.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/e1/clonetests.htm

Chuck Norcutt
http://www.chucknorcutt.com/

Matt Cham said:

Almost all the ebay vendors claim to have
safety circuitry for their NP400's.
Not sure how to test that claim.

Click to expand...

Matt Cham said:

Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://mattcham.fotopic.net/

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I agree. This is why I bought third-party replacement (8 times cheaper than original), however I assumed that it will not be of the same quality (but anyway I expected it to be better than 1/8 of the original ).

Just a quick idea:

what about battery survey - something similar to the "CF / SD card speeds" page which can be found on Dyxum?

Cheers,
MiPr
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See my gallery at http://mipr.magma-net.pl/

Lithium ion batteries are generic technologly made proprietary only by manufacturer's choice of case shape and contact positioning. Therefore, I'm all in favor of lower cost, third party batteries. Other than greed there is no reason for OEM batteries to cost as much as they do.

However, cheap lithium ion batteries that are not made to proper safety standards (and there are lots of them) also have the potential for destroying your camera, burning the house down while overheating in the charger or exploding and killing you. It's like having a car with a seatbelt that's cut half-way through. Your car works fine as long as you don't get into an accident.

The trick is to find one that exhibits both quality and safe construction and at reasonable cost. Unfortunately, without diassembling one there's no way for you to know if it's good or not. Your only real choice is to depend on the reputation of the manufacturer.

The fact that it powers your equipment for umpty-ump hours is totally immaterial when it comes to the safety features that it should have. The very next time you plug that thing into a charger it might overheat, ignite and start a major fire. Or, while changing batteries you could accidentally touch both poles to a metal object or other conductive surface and have it explode in your hand. No thanks.

Major established battery vendors such as Everready and Maxell are beginning to producie lithium ion camera battery clones. That's the place to look for dependable, lower cost batteries.

Chuck Norcutt
http://www.chucknorcutt.com/

to take another monetary risk. Life has lots of risks. Some people don't jump out of perfectly good aeroplanes.
--
Gene

I live in Minoltaville, just outside the world
'The only thing easier than being wrong .. is denying it!' -me

MaxxuM 7 Digital

This might put some light on the life span of the batteries in question. Sounds like it's wise not to drain them 100% before swapping and recharging.

http://www.answers.com/topic/lithium-ion-battery

You don't hear of too many camera, cell phone or laptop batts exploding or causing fires although it has happened. Because of this and common knowledge that parts, pieces and complete assemblies are sold under many labels and for a great difference in price are often manufactured at the same place. I think many are not convinced of the differences from one batt to the next. I'm guessing even the camera manufactures selling batts with their names on them don't make them.

On the camera manufactures sites you see lots of warnings of fake batts and their dangers but they really only mention the ones placing their names on the fakes, where is their real concern? If you take the "LI" out of battery you'll find the same cautions go with using rechargable batts of any kind to some degree.

That said use your own best judgment with LI's and don't use something you don't feel safe with. There are millions and millions of houses wired with alum wire as opposed to copper and there is hype that the alum is a fire hazard but you don't see folks not buying houses because of alum wiring and you don't see any do-good agencys stepping in to get rid of the stuff...

--
...Dennis

I purchased an off brand NP-400 from BH photo when I ordered my KM 5D only because the KM batteries were out of stock. Like several others here, mine was a tight fit. I had to pry it back out. My fix was to go over it with sand paper until it slid in and out without problem.
I just hope it lasts.

When I brought my Canon S-30 about 4 years ago I brought 2 extra battries from Battery Barn. All three batteries worked equally well for about 2 and a half years when one of the generics stopped working and wouldn't take a charge. About 6 months ago the other generic did the same thing. The orginal Canon battery is working as well as when I bought the camera.

Dave

I tend to agree with radimus, though perhaps I would not have phrased it as he did. Really, if you are going so spend $100 or more on a camera, you should not take a chance with batteries that you know that others have had problems with. In the long run, the money spent on good batteries is small compared to the cost of the camera, and more importantly, cost of repairs. Peace of mind is worth the extra bucks.

radimus said:

Why anyone would spend $1000 plus on a camera and then try to save
a few bucks by buying cheap aftermarket batteries, which could
potentially trash said camera and send the $1000 spent on it down
the drain, is beyond me.

Click to expand...

--
Maxxum 7D
KM 18-70
KM 100-300 APO D

On two different cameras so far (including my 5D), I've purchased Maxell batteries. The fit is great, the longevity is great, and they last. Absolutely no complaints. They cost more than the ebay cheapies, but you probably end up saving in the long run by not having to keep buying cheapies.

horseshoe said:

I purchased an off brand NP-400 from BH photo when I ordered my KM
5D only because the KM batteries were out of stock. Like several
others here, mine was a tight fit. I had to pry it back out. My
fix was to go over it with sand paper until it slid in and out
without problem.
I just hope it lasts.
When I brought my Canon S-30 about 4 years ago I brought 2 extra
battries from Battery Barn. All three batteries worked equally
well for about 2 and a half years when one of the generics stopped
working and wouldn't take a charge. About 6 months ago the other
generic did the same thing. The orginal Canon battery is working
as well as when I bought the camera.

Dave

Click to expand...

--
mtritt
http://trittphoto.smugmug.com

It appears that the reason that we are not hearing from those who experienced exploding batteries is that they were probably incinerated in the conflagration, or perhaps loss the use of limbs so they cannot post here. On the other hand, the danger of burning/exploding mice may be much more common; check out the story on the Fox News (it may have been CNN) website, January 8 or 9. It doesn't really relate to this forum, but it is a good read.

No Text

I think that they were ~$45. Not cheap, but I didn't want to risk generics at weddings. I had also heard some horror stories (I don't know how well founded) about generics overheating in camera bodies.
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Cheerio...
Rich

As one other poster above has pointed - try this brand: http://www.eastgear.com

They are OEM for KM NP-400 me thinks... most of us in the local Singapore forum have owned the 3rd batteries for over 1 year, some 2 years and they hold their charge as well as the KM original... in Singapore the original costs S$150 while the Eastgear version costs S$28 to 35. What's more, the Eastgear version is 200mAh higher in capacity than the original KM battery...

This company does ship overseas it seems... visit http://forums.clubsnap.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44 to get a better insight into these batteries... I think they are worth the shipping hassle as they have been extremely reliable for the > 80 KM DSLR users...

I ordered a generic from ebay vendor "orphanbiker" (aka Eric Miller) who was very inexpensive and was recommended on the other DSLR lists here. Unfortunately, the battery was a VERY tight fit in my 5D - so tight that I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get it back out if I forced it all the way down. Eric promptly refunded my money, including shipping, and mentioned that he got similar reports from two other 5D owners. He didn't even require me to return the battery, which I left sitting on the shelf 'til I read your post. Measurements showed it was a whole mm bigger than the Minolta battery, so instead of a hand file, I got out the Dremel Amazingly, I was able to take enough off the case without breaking through it to make it fit. Not sure how much I'll use it, but I might pull it out of the camera bag every once in a while as a conversation piece if nothing else. BTW, Eric hasn't been listing any np-400 replacements since the 5D issue was identified.

Corkcampbell said:

No Text

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Any relevance to batteries? What did I miss?
--
...Dennis

jdrds17 said:

I ordered a generic from ebay vendor "orphanbiker" (aka Eric
Miller) who was very inexpensive and was recommended on the other
DSLR lists here. Unfortunately, the battery was a VERY tight fit
in my 5D.

Click to expand...

I too bought one generic NP400 from orphanbiker.
I had no fit problems in the 7D.
I had no fit problems with the vertical grip.
Either 5D has tighter chamber or our batteries are
not exactly the same. I agree that orphanbiker
no longer seems to sell NP400.

--
Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://mattcham.fotopic.net/