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Rock and a hard place

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excal

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A friend at the local camera club is a full time photographer (pro), and does portraits and weddings. He's also qualified (letters after his name). I've seen some of his work and it's quite good. Some friends at the club asked him to shoot their wedding last year. Talk behind his back was he did a very poor job. Another couple at the club got married and had someone else do their wedding - much better results. I saw both results and agree completely that he did a poor job.

Another non-camera friend has a relative who got married recently. They are apparently very unhappy with the results and when I saw them I agreed. I asked who did it and they said, the name's on the back. I took a look and who's name do I see... yep, you guessed it - the very same.

At this point, I've just kept my mouth shut, but I somehow feel this is a little unethical. Yet to say anything negative will impact his business. But to confront him leads to problems for me in the club. Any thoughts?

Excal
 
showing the wedding work. Definately say nothing to the photographer, that is not your place to do. His clients will take care of telling him of their dissastisfaction.........or they should.

George
 
Make sure you do this at one of the club meetings where everyone
can here. Is this one where you show your recent work? Next time
the guy is going to show bring alone both of your friends so they
can have their word made where it counts. That is in front of all the
other members. You don't what this no good photographer being recommended
by any other members least he ruin their friends wedding too? Bad photographers
like this need a good dressing down. Maybe it will make them improve and not
ruin other weddings? It may even get your friends a refund and the could
kick back a little to you? In any case, it should be fun to see him cringe and
the other laugh. A full page ad in the paper would help too. Home Depot has

some roofing tar and there is probably a chicken ranch near by for some feathers?

Sound good?
 
And your name is Sweet Thing? That is a very vindictive and mean spirited idea. It's not your business to discuss it with him, especially in front of the whole club. Anyone with any experience as a wedding photographer knows that there are good weddings and bad weddings. Sometimes you have total cooperation, beautiful subjects, nice wedding parties, and people who give you the time and opportunity to do your work to the fullest and best of your capabilities. Often times you don't. Wedding photography is challenging under the best of situations, and nearly impossible under the worst of situations. There are two sides to every circumstance. I'll bet if you spoke privately to the photographer he would have some interesting explanations for the day. There is not a photographer on earth who bats 100 percent every wedding. Good wedding photography is a two way street and takes cooperation from the the client and photographer to be successful. Sweet Thing... I'm guessing you have very little experience in the business.
 
its not your place to instigate anything. you are quietly entitled to your opinion, but it can come back to bite you.

i think the biggest affect you can have would be...

if someone asks you for your testimonial as a reference to hire the guy for another wedding just dont give him the easy thumbs up. suggest that they look serioulsy at the guys work if they are leaning toward him. if he passes "viewing test" with the soon to be couple then they got what they wanted and choose!

your off the hook.

POLITICS!!!
dont make enemies.

david
http://www.davidprobst.com
 
I agree with you, say nothing. You are not the "photo police" and you are not his supervisor. This is a free market place, word gets around and his business will react either positively or negatively. Either way, he'll pay the price.

Perhaps "accidentally" leaving a wedding photography workshop brochure in his car windsheild might be a subtle way of telling him something, but otherwise, stay out. It is never good to bad-mouth the competition!

Frank
--
Whimsy is salvation for a life taken too seriously.
http://www.pbase.com/frankvigil
 
excal said:
A friend at the local camera club is a full time photographer
(pro), and does portraits and weddings. He's also qualified
(letters after his name). I've seen some of his work and it's
quite good. Some friends at the club asked him to shoot their
wedding last year. Talk behind his back was he did a very poor
job. Another couple at the club got married and had someone else
do their wedding - much better results. I saw both results and
agree completely that he did a poor job.
Click to expand...
A good friend will tell you if your breath stinks.

Personally, if my work wasn't up to par and that it might damage my income I'd like to be told.

That said, some people don't want to hear bad news. You're in the best position to tell whether he would want to know and how best to tell him if you decide to do so.

One approach that I'd consider is dropping a little hint ahead of time before meeting with him in a private situation. Give him some time to get over the initial blow.

--
bob

Travel Galleries
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
 
George Law said:
showing the wedding work. Definately say nothing to the
photographer, that is not your place to do. His clients will take
care of telling him of their dissastisfaction.........or they
should.
Click to expand...
Yes. It is a quaint little custom called "minding one's own business".

OTOH, if you are asked to make a recommendation, obviously you won't recommend this guy. And if someone directly asks your opinion about his wedding photography, it would be fine to say that you found the two examples that you viewed to be lacking. But it really isn't your responsibility to warn the world about someone who appears to be a poor wedding photographer.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
Member said:
Member said:
A friend at the local camera club is a full time photographer
(pro), and does portraits and weddings. He's also qualified
(letters after his name). I've seen some of his work and it's
quite good. Some friends at the club asked him to shoot their
wedding last year. Talk behind his back was he did a very poor
job. Another couple at the club got married and had someone else
do their wedding - much better results. I saw both results and
agree completely that he did a poor job.
Click to expand...
A good friend will tell you if your breath stinks.
Click to expand...
The key issue with this is to what degree this person is really a "friend". The term is often used where we really don't mean friend, but mean "someone with whom we have a friendly acquantaince."

I agree, if it was truly a friend of mine, I'd have a talk with him of some sort. If it was just some guy I knew at the club, I'd keep my nose out of it.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
Usually the one's with the ltetters after the name could not stnad up in real world by their photographs.

--
Retired commercial photog - enjoying shooting for myself again.
Hoping to see/shoot as much as I can before the eyes and legs gives way
 
IMO, keep your nose out of it.. If someone asks you directly what you think of this fellow's work, tell them what you think.. however, also suggest that the potential client look for themselves and make up their own mind..

How close a friend is this fellow? if he's just an acquaintance at the club, stay far, far away - perhaps he's thinking the same about YOUR photos!! if you say anything about him, be certain that he WILL find out ... and also that it was you who said it... If he's a good friend of yours, you may consider speaking to him privately, HOWEVER, be warned that you might just lose the friendship - not everyone likes to hear criticism, even if it is constructive!

Cheers,
Scotty
--
  • How deep does the Rabbit Hole go? *
Free the Images
Best Light**
 
If you hear about a bad restaurant, do you want to tell the world? If a guy cheats on his wife at the Christmas party, do you feel the urge to be a good cop and turn him in?

Unless you are actually being hired as a photographic critic, or a restaurant critic, or a private investigator, in these sorts of situations my inclination is to just keep my opinion to myself.

The world is full of messed-up people and situations. Attempting to insert yourself into situations where you really don't have any interest is a receipe for disaster. You will NOT end up saving people from themselves, and you won't make any friends either.

Let it go. So there's a talentless photographer out there? Now THERE's a newsflash. Not your problem -- unless you taught him everything he knows. . . .
--
Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com
 
excal said:
A friend at the local camera club is a full time photographer
(pro), and does portraits and weddings. He's also qualified
(letters after his name). I've seen some of his work and it's
quite good. Some friends at the club asked him to shoot their
wedding last year. Talk behind his back was he did a very poor
job. Another couple at the club got married and had someone else
do their wedding - much better results. I saw both results and
agree completely that he did a poor job.

Another non-camera friend has a relative who got married recently.
They are apparently very unhappy with the results and when I saw
them I agreed. I asked who did it and they said, the name's on the
back. I took a look and who's name do I see... yep, you guessed it
  • the very same.
At this point, I've just kept my mouth shut, but I somehow feel
this is a little unethical. Yet to say anything negative will
impact his business. But to confront him leads to problems for me
in the club. Any thoughts?

Excal
Click to expand...
--

without samples to view, its just subjective as to what that couple(s) disliked about their photos. If possible post a few, until then its all hear say.

18 years as a freelancer,(news,magazine, wedding photography) camera equip. over the years: Practica MLT, Canon A1, Minolta 9xi, 7xi, Dimage Z1(see my Z1 shots at http://www.photobucket.com ALBUM NAME: buckl the COMMUNITY album was done with the Z1, and most of the photos in the album:Other were w/the Z1)
 
Thanks all - I'll do as I thought I should then and keep well out of it.

The reason it's tricky is that I personally know both him and the wedding party quite well. Also, I am a former member of said affiliation and they have a code of conduct and expect a certain standard ... giving you an idea of how bad they were, the bride had her eyes closed in the main shot he provided and to get the whole train in, the couple were squeezed to the edge of the shot! Oh, and it was about a stop under-exposed...

Anyway, I'll keep my nose out - thanks for the advice.

Excal
 
Some people have different views as to what makes a great wedding photographer. A lot of photographers today like to do photo journalism photography. My clients prefer the traditional wedding images.

Some of my friends charge $8,000-$25,000 for weddings and to me they are terrible but the clients paid for them and obviously liked them. And yet, my friends are still in strong demand - often booked 2 years in advance!
 
If he's truely your friend, then he should be able to listen to you tell him how it is. I would expect the same from my friends if something I did was not up to par. That's what being a friend is. Saying nothing while you watch his business whittle away is not being a friend in my book.

I have no problem telling any of my friends or co workers anything if they are out of line or need some sort of reality check.

There are diplomatic ways to do this, but a true friend will tell you how it is straight to your face.

If his driving was bad would you tell him?
If he was loud and beligerent would you tell him?
If his fly was open and you were in public would you speak up?
Bat in the cave ?? (booger in the nostril hanging from a hair)
Shoe untied?

--
If you can kick it, it's hardware, if not then it's software.
 
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