Konica Minolta Dimage A2 and External Flashes

We've been using the Konica A2 with great success. In fact, our school photography company owns 20 of them!

Does anyone know of any non-Konica external flashes that can be connected to the Hot Shoe. We need to have an external flash that has a higher guide number than any of the available Konica Flashes. HOWEVER, we need the non-Konica external flash to work in fully automatic mode, and take full integration of the Shoe. Thanks!

The reason we need this is to take school group photos. Because of issues with the A2 sensor, we need to dial down the ISO to 100, and therefore need much more light.

Note to Konica Minolta: Please make a Dimage A3!

digitalpixman said:

We need to have an external flash that
has a higher guide number than any of the available Konica Flashes.
HOWEVER, we need the non-Konica external flash to work in fully
automatic mode, and take full integration of the Shoe. Thanks!

The reason we need this is to take school group photos. Because of
issues with the A2 sensor, we need to dial down the ISO to 100, and
therefore need much more light.

Note to Konica Minolta: Please make a Dimage A3!

Click to expand...

Hmmm! I do not know of any other flashes that are compatible, but just curious about the "higher guide number" requirement. I'm assuming that you are aware of the Minolta 5600HS(D) with a guide number of 56 m. or about 184 feet at 100 ISO.

With this flash on my A2, I lit up just about the entire stage at the Grand Ole Opry, and that's from the cheap seats. (And a number of other venus.) I have used the 5600 as fill flash for our community days group pic. About 120 people with the sun at their backs. The results were great.

If you are talking about needing significantly more illumination than this, you might be better off with two flashes fired wirelessly. Might give you more even illumination. ?? If you have 20 A2 cameras (Lucky people!) surely you will be looking for more than just one flash anyway, right?
Just my 2 cents worth.

You can check out the 5600HS (D) specs here. http://kmpi.konicaminolta.us/eprise/main/kmpi/content/cam/cam_Product_Pages/Maxxum_Flashes

On the other issue... an A3, there are many others on this forum, and I can only assume many who do not participate in online forums, that are very, very anxious for an A3. Now, let's see. If you could somehow get another 200 schools to each order 20 A3s each, plus the 3 I would buy, hmmmmm! Hey Minolta, here's a commitment for 4003 of your A3 before you even announce it. )
Jim

Jim Angelo said:

Hmmm! I do not know of any other flashes that are compatible, but
just curious about the "higher guide number" requirement. I'm
assuming that you are aware of the Minolta 5600HS(D) with a guide
number of 56 m. or about 184 feet at 100 ISO.
With this flash on my A2, I lit up just about the entire stage at
the Grand Ole Opry, and that's from the cheap seats. (And a number
of other venus.) I have used the 5600 as fill flash for our
community days group pic. About 120 people with the sun at their
backs. The results were great.
If you are talking about needing significantly more illumination
than this, you might be better off with two flashes fired
wirelessly. Might give you more even illumination. ?? If you
have 20 A2 cameras (Lucky people!) surely you will be looking for
more than just one flash anyway, right?
Just my 2 cents worth.
You can check out the 5600HS (D) specs here.

http://kmpi.konicaminolta.us/eprise/main/kmpi/content/cam/cam_Product_Pages/Maxxum_Flashes

Click to expand...

Jim - Thanks for your comments on this. We did extensive testing with the 5600 and got very poor results. Specifically we are shooing groups of about 20 to 30 in a school auditorium or gymnasium. The "quality" of the group photograph was very poor. (faces were "spotty" and looked pixelated. However, when we attach professional external lights, the results are terrific. I was wondering if you might share with me what settings you might have used when using the 5600 with the A2 for groups indoors. Thanks!

And that's 1.14 firmware which increases writing speed really much making RAW completely usefull combined with free Rawshooter Essentials. (and fast big capacity CF)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=15800490
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=16292804

http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials.html

--
Esa 'E.T' Tuunanen

digitalpixman said:

Note to Konica Minolta: Please make a Dimage A3!

Click to expand...

digitalpixman said:

Jim - Thanks for your comments on this. We did extensive testing
with the 5600 and got very poor results. Specifically we are
shooing groups of about 20 to 30 in a school auditorium or
gymnasium. The "quality" of the group photograph was very poor.
(faces were "spotty" and looked pixelated. However, when we
attach professional external lights, the results are terrific. I
was wondering if you might share with me what settings you might
have used when using the 5600 with the A2 for groups indoors.
Thanks!

Click to expand...

Nothing too complicated. When they say fully automatic, that is what they mean.

I set the A2 to Aperture Priority (A), the 5600 to TTL, Level 1/1 and take the shot. I get good results "every" time!!! This is for long distance, close up, macro, and everything in between.

One thing that has me wondering. Are you trying to bounce the flash off of the ceiling in your auditorium? If so, there could be several problems with that. First, auditorium ceilings are usually black. That could be "soaking up" most of the light output. Secondly, the ceiling could be so high that the light is actually traveling more than the 184 ft. and not falling on your subject. Thirdly, if you have the bounce head pointed up toward the ceiling at too shallow of an angle, you could be directing all of the light behind your subject. Try shooting with the head directed at the subject. The 5600 is high enough above the lens to avoid redeye.

The "spotty and pixelated look" definately sounds like too little light on your subject causing the camera to raise the ISO to unacceptable levels (400 or 800). This will happen if you have the A2's ISO set to Auto. The combination of low light and high ISO will result in unacceptable noise.

In any event, if you cannot light a group of 20 to 30 students from a reasonable distance, then you need to change some settings on the A2 (Try "A Priority"), change the 5600 to TTL, or something is very wrong with the 5600 you tried.

My wife is a teacher and I am routinely called into duty to do just the kinds of shots you are talking about. They come out very nice. I also take a lot of photos of the grandkids in school performances. These are done from the back of some of the auditoriums and get very good results. (All large, but none over 184 feet.)

If you have more specific questions, feel free to e-mail me. Use MTF in the subject so I can differentiate your note from spam.
Jim

Esa Tuunanen said:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=15800490
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=16292804
http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials.html
Esa 'E.T' Tuunanen

digitalpixman said:

Note to Konica Minolta: Please make a Dimage A3!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Been there! Done that! Faster? Yes! Still an A2 sized sensor. Still noise at anything above 100 ISO (unacceptable over 200 IMHO). I know folks are wishing for the moon, but improving on these two items would float my boat. Don't want, don't need a DSLR. Just give me these inhancements. Please!
Jim

With RAW format (and free program) good higher ISO's would be possible.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=16292804
http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials.html

Actually sensor used in high ISO touted Fuji S9000/9500 isn't much better, it's just that good RAW conversion and processing makes huge difference.

Check RAW shots in here from "low noise" Fuji sensor, I bet you agree those are noisy. http://www.videozona.ru/photo_tests/Reviews/PanasonicFZ30/PanasonicFZ30_page05.asp

I have Metz 54 MZ4 (with right adapter it can be fitted to pretty much any camera, so no need for separate flashes if there's cameras of different brands) and I just checked how far it would reach with ISO200.

For wideangle and F2.8 flash shows 14 meters (45 feets) range which increases to over 20 meters ( 60 feets) when zooming camera to over 100mm even though aperture decreases to F3.5. (at ISO100 wide angle range is about 10m/30 feets)

Metz also has more powerfull models of this MZ-serie (SCA models) buth those are little different and flash itself isn't attached to top of the camera.

Flash I have has guide number of 54. ( 177 when using feets) For comparison it's 76 ( 250) in most powerfull model.

http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/that_is_mecablitz.138.html

--
Esa 'E.T' Tuunanen

digitalpixman said:

The reason we need this is to take school group photos. Because of
issues with the A2 sensor, we need to dial down the ISO to 100, and
therefore need much more light.

Click to expand...

The "Guide number" is not the actual linear distance that the flash will illuminate, is used to determine the correct aperture at a certain distance or viceversa the correct distance at a specific aperture.

with a guide number of 184 for ISO100 at f8 the distance will be aprox 184/8=23 feet. If the flash were good enough to work at 184 feet with iso 100 and an aperture of f8 the guide number will be 1472!!!

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

MegaPixel said:

The "Guide number" is not the actual linear distance that the flash
will illuminate, is used to determine the correct aperture at a
certain distance or viceversa the correct distance at a specific
aperture.

with a guide number of 184 for ISO100 at f8 the distance will be
aprox 184/8=23 feet. If the flash were good enough to work at 184
feet with iso 100 and an aperture of f8 the guide number will be
1472!!!
Mike

Click to expand...

Hi Mike.

I don't know about all of that. I guess if I did I would be using the camera and 5600 on full manual settings. As I said, with the A2 in A priority, I light up stages from over 150 feet every time. Maybe they actuyally sold me an aircraft landing light. ;o)
Jim

I use the a2/5600 cross-gym for basketball with reasonable results. Using for other pictures of kids during various events (xmas concerts) is good too. Yes, the bball pix do look like they are taken with flash, but there is no other good option if you want to stop action...

Well one, multiple, big aux strobes that light the entire gym...
--

But, you're really taking about a different situation. You may really need to go with multiple "lighting units", whether it be strobe or bulbs... if you're looking for an evenly lit pix.

I haven't tried a diffuser yet with a situation similar to yours... that's another experirment to put on the list of things to try...

Hi Jim, maybe you did get a landing light I have done the same thing as you. taking pictures of a high school band from far away, (does not help when everybody is dressed in black) the reason why it works is because you are also using the stage lights added to the flash light and every little bit helps.

I just recently changed from an 7hi to an A200 (due to the sensor problem it was exchanged by KM) and used it at a party with very poor lighting, no other flash than the built in and to top it off I accidentaly pressed the AF/M focus switch and put the camera in AFC, could not figure out until I got home why the camera was having such a hard tiime locking focus, I guess I have to practice more with it. I could work the contorls in the 7hi with my eyes closed. I guess "Practice makes Better" you can never be perfect.

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

Sigma EF-500 DG Super MA-ADI with serial no. 6xxx or higher?!

Jim Angelo said:

One thing that has me wondering. Are you trying to bounce the
flash off of the ceiling in your auditorium? If so, there could be
several problems with that. First, auditorium ceilings are usually
black. That could be "soaking up" most of the light output.
Secondly, the ceiling could be so high that the light is actually
traveling more than the 184 ft. and not falling on your subject.
Thirdly, if you have the bounce head pointed up toward the ceiling
at too shallow of an angle, you could be directing all of the light
behind your subject.

Click to expand...

Considering that he's doing this professionally (ie: people are paying for his results), I would assume he's shooting with reflective umbrellas. It would be, imo, rather crazy to show up to a job expecting to bounce off of ceilings. And if he is shooting with umbrellas, then yeah, I can see how the 5600 might be a bit underpowered for illuminating a large group of people. For that type of work, I'd be more inclined to use traditional studio lights (eg: Alien Bees) which can be had in much greater power capacities and have replaceable tubes.

larsbc

As far as an alternative to the 5600 that supports TTL, I think your only other option is Metz. They might have something more powerful than the 5600. Either that or add more flash units to the wireless group.

larsbc

I was perusing the latest Pop. Photography magazine last night and notice that Quantum makes a studio flash unit with interchangeable feet modules so you can use them in TTL mode with a variety of cameras. They have also just released wireless modules for them as well. They are rather spendy but they'll definitely have the power you need.

larsbc

http://www.metz.de/en/
--
Esa 'E.T' Tuunanen

This is what powerfull flash means:

Swedish Viggen fighters have reconnaissance versions with camera pods using three 120 degree FOV cameras, pod has also flash for illuminating landscape up to 500 meters (1640 feets)
--
Esa 'E.T' Tuunanen

Jim Angelo said:

I light up stages from over 150 feet every time.
Maybe they actuyally sold me an aircraft landing light. ;o)
Jim

Click to expand...

I have Metz 54 MZ-3 which works with my A2 just great (a Metz SCA 3302 adapter is also needed) therefore I suppose that higher Metz models work fine as well.

I chose Metz because I can use one flash unit with my 3 different cameras (analog Canon EOS 300, Minolta Dimage A2 and Nikon D70). I only needed to buy different SCA adapters which is pretty cheap solution.

--
Black holes are where God divided by zero...

I agree with Hans here... check out the Sigma.

http://photonotes.org/reviews/sigma-ef-500-super/

Cheers,

Allen

--
please peruse my gallerys here:
http://www.allen3231.fotopic.net

'Shut up 'n play yer guitar'

• Frank Zappa