JPEG and RAW workflow

DavidGr · Nov 4, 2005

Well, I'm sure there are some threads around here on these topics, but I can't seem to find any good ones.

I'm looking for your (or other) suggestions for workflow tips, tricks and processing of both RAW and JPEG formats. I know RAW is better, but one of these days, I may run out of card space. And I also have a bunch of recently scanned negatives (jpg files) that I'd like to go back to and fix up a bit.

What are good steps to follow? When to do what?
Levels, curves, sharpen, blur, up-res/down-res, crop, etc, etc, etc.

Kent C · Nov 4, 2005

Good beginner’s tutorial on retouch workflow

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/instant_photoshop.shtml

http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/PhotoLab/KnowledgeBase/DigiPhotoTips/PhotoshopBasicTool.htm

http://www.arraich.com/ps_intro.htm
see my posts in the thread vtc, etc.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=9187446
action
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=13975398

Advanced workflow

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/techniques/process.shtml
Step-by-Step Processing of Photographs using Photoshop.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/workflow1.shtml

The Ideal Digital Photographer's Workflow, Part's 1 2 &3.

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2003/12/17/digital_photography.html
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2004/01/21/digital_photography.html
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2004/02/24/digital_photography.html

Raw workflow vs. Photoshop CS.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=10178439

Digital workflow - Michielsen

http://www.michielsen.info/photoshop/workflow/

Bruce Fraser’s book CS2 ACR

http://www.peachpit.com/title/0321334094

Russell Brown on RAW

http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html
run movies:
Digital Photo Flow
Creative Camera RAW
Dr. Brown's RAW Photo Styler

Jeff Schewe on RAW

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html
Jeff on batch processing .RAW files:
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/ps_workflow_sec4.pdf
Fraser, Schewe, more….
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro.html
Fraser
http://www.macworld.com/2005/03/secrets/marcreate/index.php
Kelby
http://studio.adobe.com/us/tips/tip.jsp?p=1&xml=phs7ppraw&id=574

http://studio.adobe.com/us/tips/tip.jsp?p=1&id=650&xml=phs8ppraw
Willmore

http://www.adobepress.com/content/images/0321213521/samplechapter/PhotoshopCS.pdf

Tim Grey on RAW

http://www.digitalphotobook.net/tutorials/camera_raw/cameraraw_1.html

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
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DavidGr · Nov 4, 2005

Gee, thanks Kent, that's a pretty good list of topics covered in that list you provided. Now all I have to do is find the time to sort through them all.

Any others have pointers?

Kent C · Nov 4, 2005

DavidGr said:
Gee, thanks Kent, that's a pretty good list of topics covered in
that list you provided. Now all I have to do is find the time to
sort through them all.

Any others have pointers?

Yeah. Usually the first link is the best so read that first, then if you have more questions or are curious, scan some of the others. For RAW workflow and info there is none better than Bruce Fraser's book - first link in the RAW links.

For 'other pointers' click on the 'porg' link (Ken Leonard's site) in my sig and scroll down to the big font, bold titles and subtitles...
--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
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ADSinger · Nov 4, 2005

I've asked this without much response in the Canon forum: Is there a decent workflow method to extract the embedded 1.5 mp jpg from the 350D raw image.

I can get it by using the slideshow option in IrfanView to view it, copying the image number on paper, going through the folder, then opening and saving each one later in IrfanView. Then I still have to go back to PS for editting.

I know I can shoot raw+jpg but that creates a giant file. I just want to easily get the 15 image for email and web use while retaining the raw file as needed.

I'm hoping an experienced raw user might have a better solution.

Thanks.

alan.

Kent C · Nov 4, 2005

ADSinger said:
I've asked this without much response in the Canon forum: Is there
a decent workflow method to extract the embedded 1.5 mp jpg from
the 350D raw image.

I can get it by using the slideshow option in IrfanView to view it,
copying the image number on paper, going through the folder, then
opening and saving each one later in IrfanView. Then I still have
to go back to PS for editting.

I know I can shoot raw+jpg but that creates a giant file. I just
want to easily get the 15 image for email and web use while
retaining the raw file as needed.

I'm hoping an experienced raw user might have a better solution.

A cursory search found - in Breezebrowser, right click, extract jpeg. Canon Utility seems to have the same function. But perhaps someone with a Canon will respond....

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

DavidGr · Nov 4, 2005

Kent,

I just looked at your website. Holy cow!!!!!!! It looks like you have categorized tons of threads from this and other forums, plus several other very good resources. I know I will probably never have enough time to review them all, but I will definitely bookmark your site for future reference!

ADSinger · Nov 4, 2005

Thanks for the reply. just to double check, I tried that in Zookmbrowser and DPP, the Canon edit tools, and unfortunately they do not have this feature.

I've just downloaded and eval copy of Breezebrowser, I'll try it.

Thanks again.

alan.

Kent C said:
A cursory search found - in Breezebrowser, right click, extract
jpeg. Canon Utility seems to have the same function. But perhaps
someone with a Canon will respond....

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

wgoldfarb · Dec 4, 2005

While I am a "seasoned" film photographer for over 30 years (read "seasoned" as"many-years-doing-it-but-not-necessarly-lots-of-skill" ;-) I got my first dSLR just a day ago and have been having LOTS of fun all morning shooting pictures of my kids while I get to know the camera. So, now I uploaded my foirst picvs to my PC and want to "develop" them. I did a LOT of reading on the specifics of taking good digital pics and how it may differ from film (white balance, exposure, etc) but I have not read anything about the post-processing workflow. The litttle I have found so far makes it seem like a very steep learning curve and is somewhat intimidating.

I had been searching the forums for some good tutorials on the post-processing workflow with no success, until i came upon your post. Wow. This one should be bumped up often to make it easy to find, or somehow made into a FAQ.

From browsing these forums I see you are a very frequent contributor, so thanks for sharing all those links, and for sharing your expertise with newbies like myself. Makes the process of climbing that learning curve a lot easier!

I look forward to hopefully posting my first photos here soon!

Regards

William

Kent C · Dec 4, 2005

DavidGr said:
Kent,
I just looked at your website. Holy cow!!!!!!! It looks like you
have categorized tons of threads from this and other forums, plus
several other very good resources. I know I will probably never
have enough time to review them all, but I will definitely bookmark
your site for future reference!

Just saw this on Williams 'bump' and should mention that my archive link is just one page on Ken Leonard's "porg" site that has much more info than just my archives page. The best way to use my archives is to go to that link then use your browser's 'find' command - eg. punch in 'star' and it will take you to the 'Effects' doc to the 'star filters, brushes, actions'. "Frames" will take you to the 'frames' doc where there are listed various ways to make frames, actions, etc.
--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

Kent C · Dec 4, 2005

Thanks William. I might point out that for RAW workflow there is nothing better than Bruce Fraser's Book:

Bruce Fraser’s book CS2 ACR

http://www.peachpit.com/title/0321334094

Even if you don't use Adobe's ACR this still nails down the essentials.
--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

wgoldfarb · Dec 4, 2005

Kent

Thx again. I will definitely get the book. And while I have your attention I wanted to ask one more (quick) question

My next step is to get some software to start experimenting (don't worry I won't ask for a recommendation -- I have already done most of my homework in that area

. I am hesitant to spend $500 on PSCS2 until I understand better what I need and what is involved. In the meantime I was looking at cheaper options including PS Elements and the GIMP. The GIMP sounds more powerful but I read that it cannot work with 16 bit color which I believe is what RAW images use (I assume that PSE can?). How much of a drawback is this in the "real world"? in theory it sounds awful to discard all that color information but I'm wondering how much difference it makes in practice.

Thx yet again!

William

VA-ArtG · Dec 4, 2005

Use the Canon Digital Camera File Viewer Utility to extract .JPG from .CRW
--
Yorkshire Terriers are like potato chips - you can't have just one.

Doug Pardee · Dec 4, 2005

wgoldfarb said:
I am hesitant to spend $500 on PSCS2 until I understand better
what I need and what is involved. In the meantime I was looking
at cheaper options including PS Elements and the GIMP.

Personally, I'd recommend not messing with GIMP. It's okay if you're just fooling around, but for serious photo editing it lacks important features such as color management.

wgoldfarb said:
The GIMP sounds more powerful but I read that it cannot work
with 16 bit color which I believe is what RAW images use (I assume
that PSE can?). How much of a drawback is this in the "real world"?

The lack of 16-bit handling isn't as bad as it sounds, because GIMP can't handle RAW files anyway. You need to use a separate program to process your RAW files and convert them into a format that GIMP can handle (typically TIFF or JPEG). That separate program will certainly be able to handle 16-bit data, so you can do your 16-bit editing there and then take an 8-bit version into GIMP.

But since it sounds like you're expecting to end up with PhotoShop sometime in the future, you almost certainly want to start with PhotoShop Elements. Almost everything that you learn with PSE will carry over when you upgrade to PS. Even better, Adobe will give you an upgrade discount from PSE to PS that is actually MORE than the retail price of PSE. Yes, it's cheaper to buy PSE and then upgrade to PS than to just buy PS straight-away.

With PSE you can use Adobe Camera Raw to import RAW files directly into PSE, so you don't need a separate RAW-file program. Although some people still use one, because they happen to like the results from one program or another. Still, ACR is the most convenient way.

Outside of ACR, PSE has limited 16-bit handling. You can't do layers, you can do only limited selections. And most filters won't run on 16-bit data. Some of the most basic tools do - Shadows/Highlights, Levels, USM - but you really can't get into much serious editing work until you've told PSE to convert to 8-bit mode.

My recommendation for your particular situation is to get PSE (either 3 or 4). I seem to recall that you're an E-500 user, so you'll need to download the latest "ACR 3.3 beta" update from Adobe in order to process RAW files from your E-500:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html

Kent C · Dec 4, 2005

wgoldfarb said:
Kent

Thx again. I will definitely get the book. And while I have your
attention I wanted to ask one more (quick) question

My next step is to get some software to start experimenting (don't
worry I won't ask for a recommendation -- I have already done most
of my homework in that area . I am hesitant to spend $500 on
PSCS2 until I understand better what I need and what is involved.
In the meantime I was looking at cheaper options including PS
Elements and the GIMP. The GIMP sounds more powerful but I read
that it cannot work with 16 bit color which I believe is what RAW
images use (I assume that PSE can?). How much of a drawback is this
in the "real world"? in theory it sounds awful to discard all that
color information but I'm wondering how much difference it makes in
practice.

I never had either elements or gimp - the latest version of elements has a version of ACR (a few things missing) and would do RAW conversions for you.

Here is one route that many here have taken to get the full version of PS:

Photoshop for less –legal

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=12092400
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=14685588

... you have to follow all the suggestions - email the seller, ensure that the version is either not registered or registered to the seller and that he/she are willing to do a licence transfer through Adobe (form available and free).

Another path is to get PSE and upgrade to PS. You may have a version of elements in some package:

PSE upgrade PS

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=6825207
http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catCanon
http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catEpson
http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catMicrotek

http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catWacom_0205&sourcecode=74113

As far as 'how much detail can be lost' - that is explained welll in the book - basically, doing as much in 16 bit as possible helps to get the best 'base' or as Bruce puts it - gives more "editing headroom". There are some that say that the difference between 8 and 16 bit is slight, but I think the illustrations in the book and the context - where further editing in 8 bit needs to be done - he makes his case for starting out with the most info available. Once you get underway, you can draw your own conclusions.

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

wgoldfarb · Dec 7, 2005

Thanks for the great info Doug (nt)

wgoldfarb · Dec 7, 2005

Kent,

Thanks for the info yet again. I will get going with Elements and see where that takes me. I am also on Chapter 3 of the book you recommended, and I agree it is indeed great. Between the book and all the tutorials you have on your website, I have enough to keep me busy for a while!

Regards,

William

Kent C · Dec 7, 2005

wgoldfarb said:
Kent,

Thanks for the info yet again. I will get going with Elements and
see where that takes me. I am also on Chapter 3 of the book you
recommended, and I agree it is indeed great.

Good. Chap 3? Welll then you already know 'why RAW?' ;-) I knew somewhat before, but Chap. 2 solidified the reasons and added some I didn't know. Also made me a better photographer.
--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com

Roy Bruckno · Dec 7, 2005

Another good thread to learn from , thank you all.

andrewbdub · Oct 17, 2007

Very useful...even a couple of years later
--
andrew
http://www.pbase.com/abott

JPEG and RAW workflow

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