E500 frustrations

Hello everybody,

I have monitored this forum for some time now, because I want(ed) to buy the new E500. My local camerastore finally called last week that an E500 had arrived (they are not widely available in the Netherlands). The good thing is, he gave met the E500 to play with during the weekend. The bad thing is that I tested it all weekend and I am disppointed. I am about 100% sure that I am doing something wrong, because I only see positive stories about the E500, here. I experieced 2 major issues. White balance and dark pictures. I tried to shoot a painting of colored squares on a white background, on a white wall. Indoor with the room lit. All preset white balance settings failed. As did the one button calibration, as did the temperature settings (from 2000 to 14000K). Then I moved the painting outdoor and I got perfect colors with the first shot (preset WB Cloudy).

The other issue is the dark pictures. Each picture I shoot indoor (auto or P)comes out too dark. On the display of the camera it looks ok, but when I upload to my computer it is way too dark. It´s not the monitor (calibrated) because when I print the picture it´s too dark also (using a Canon Selphy 400 dye sub printer). Looks good on the E500´s display, turns out bad in print.

I believe a camera should work ok in Auto mode. Not perfect, but ok. For perfect I am willing to tweak every possible setting, but imo Auto should produce reasonable results which it doesn´t.

May I ask the E500 owners: do you have the same experiences I´ve had with Auto-mode and are you all such experts who changed ecery possible setting in the E500 to produce the marvellous pictures I see in this thread? Or does your E500 also render acceptable results in Auto mode and am I doing something completely wrong?

I really want to buy this camera, but after this weekend of testing I think I may pass. I made an appointment with the camerstore to discuss my bad results next Friday and I´ll return the camera tomorrow to let them also test it. Then on Friday I´ll decide whether or not I´ll buy it. Any suggestions and tips from this thread will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

I usded to suffer the WB problem in shooting my new born baby indoor. It really doesn't match any given setting. At first, I tried Custom wb via trying all different temperatures, got a better result, but still not perfect. Recently, i use Kodak grey card and got perfect result in my opinion.

However, no matter how accurate we set the WB for indoor light, this light will never as good as sun light.

It seems you got a litlle under exposed with your pictures. From my experiece, with ESP metering, you need bia +0.3 or +0.7 for white or light subject. I think it is normal for the camera even with the inteligent ESP metering because it really doesn't know what the white is and what the grey is.

--
'The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.', Gorge W. Bush

Thank you for the reply, shining stone. I appreciate it. I really want to buy the E500 but I want to be sure that indoor pictures can be of good quality, even with auto. I´d buy it when I´m sure that I am the cause of the bad pictures because then I know it can be solved. I´ve read about white and grey cards in this forum. I understand the method with setting the WB, but I have not been able to find what exactly the difference between white and grey card is. Maybe someone can explain or post a link?

Thanks

p.s. I wanted to include an example of my pictures but cannot find how to do. I wanted to copy from my harddisk and past in the message, but it didn´t work.

On my E-1 you have to set the speed of the camera (like film speed). Did you do that?

Its strange that shots on the camera display looked good but not on your PC or print. Did the graph look good? Your first shot should be followed by checking the graph, then ideally you try to get the graph towards the middle ...

There have been various threads on WB with the E-X00 cameras. So you may want to look into those threads as well.

In general, with indoor shooting it is much more difficult for any camera to determine the WB. and remember, if you are not able to get a custom WB should the camera do it when using autoWB?

If you have difficulties when selecting the proper WB, shoot raw. To me the increments in the Calvin are too big, and under harsh conditions you simply have no other option. 2 weeks ago I was shooting in a small church with windows on both sides here I had the same problem you describe, shooting RAW was the only solution. I don't believe other cameras do much better here apart from the ones with a WB sensor (E-1).

Shooting with a white card or an Expodisc may also help determining the proper WB but I found it easier to work with raw and RSE.

No, the graph didn´t look good. Most of the bars were in the left part. But there were some background details that were visible on the E500´s display and not on the monitor and on the print. Over all the picture was much darker on my PC and on paper.

Being a store demo, you should do a factory reset, its in the manual. Once thats done it should be OK other than operator error.
--
Shane
http://australianbushwalking.fotopic.net
Lots of information here...
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SMBooth said:

Being a store demo, you should do a factory reset, its in the
manual. Once thats done it should be OK other than operator error.
--
Shane
http://australianbushwalking.fotopic.net
Lots of information here...
http://www.pbase.com/otfchallenge/root

Click to expand...

--

A politician without tax money is just a public servant, so what does that make a taxpayer.......

ExCibular said:

There have been various threads on WB with the E-X00 cameras. So
you may want to look into those threads as well.

Click to expand...

ExCibular said:

In general, with indoor shooting it is much more difficult for any
camera to determine the WB. and remember, if you are not able to
get a custom WB should the camera do it when using autoWB?

Click to expand...

You got a point there.

ExCibular said:

If you have difficulties when selecting the proper WB, shoot raw.
To me the increments in the Calvin are too big, and under harsh
conditions you simply have no other option. 2 weeks ago I was
shooting in a small church with windows on both sides here I had
the same problem you describe, shooting RAW was the only solution.
I don't believe other cameras do much better here apart from the
ones with a WB sensor (E-1).

Click to expand...

That´s one of the reasons why I want an SLR. The possibility of using raw format. But this weekend, my purpose was to test the camera in auto mode and print directly from the camera (using pictbridge). I tend to believe that the conclusion must be that for indoor pictures it´s not a good way of working. Indoor shootings appearently must always be processed.

ExCibular said:

Shooting with a white card or an Expodisc may also help determining
the proper WB but I found it easier to work with raw and RSE.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice. So you just shoot everything in raw format and correct later?

No no. The camera is brand new. They ordered one especially for me. I´ve seen them taking it out of the box and everything was still in sealed bags (I did give it a reset, though). If there´s a problem it must be me. I returned the E500 to the store tonight and the owner will now shoot with it the next couple of days. Friday we´ll get together and evaluate but I must say that with the responses I get here I feel I should just buy the camera because there´s nothing wrong with it.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

I don't believe other cameras do much better here apart from the
ones with a WB sensor (E-1).

Click to expand...

That´s one of the reasons why I want an SLR. The possibility of
using raw format. But this weekend, my purpose was to test the
camera in auto mode and print directly from the camera (using
pictbridge). I tend to believe that the conclusion must be that for
indoor pictures it´s not a good way of working. Indoor shootings
appearently must always be processed.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

Shooting with a white card or an Expodisc may also help determining
the proper WB but I found it easier to work with raw and RSE.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice. So you just shoot everything in raw
format and correct later?

Click to expand...

I am a lazy guy and therefor prefer shooting .jpg I rarely use raw apart from the times I feel I have no other choice, this is apart from WB dificulties, when metering difficulties arise and once in a lifetime shots (to give me the opportunity to repair if I screw up).

It is not that indoor shots must always be proccessed but just more frequently than outdoor shots.

I have shot several indoor parties the one from a few weeks ago was the first that required me to shoot raw as I could not get proper results in .jpg.

I own an E-300 so that is why I didn't comment on the LCD underexposure question. But how is the LCD brightness set?

This is the only thing that pops to mind when hearing such a story. The additional brightness would make much differences indoor but much less outdoors.

BTW, where did you buy your camera? Avaulibility of the E-500 is quite good where I come from!

You didn't answer about the film speed ... you should have been shooting at 400.

You've said that you do a lot inside at parties: I think you'll need a birghter lens than the standard kit lenses.

It's normal to get poor shots if its your first DSLR, BUT ensure your really happy. I think for inside, the 11-22 and an E-1 is a great combination. But its a lot more money than the E-500 kit setup.

I would also consider the Minolta D5, which has a stability system built into the camera. Such stability in low low is worth 1.5 stops, a big benefit for not extra cost with that camera. Add a bright wide angle to that camera and I think it would be a cheaper way to get good inside low light shots than an 11-22 / E-1.

I couldn´t find how to adjust the LCD screen settings (checked the manual, couldn´t find it). Maybe it´s not adjustable.

Please excuse my typos ... I am a Mac user, I broke a key on the keyboard (dropped it onto something) and the ViewSonic keyboard I am using at the moment is different... I blaim the keyboard, not me ! ...

Unfortunately, dslrs (especially entry level) should come with a caveat or warning along with the receipt. They take time, effort, and lots of practice to master. As for the discrepency between the camera's LCD and your print/screen view, it has been rather common with my digital cameras. To check your exposure you are much better served by checking your histogram than trying to judge by the LCD brightness. Don't give up, just keep practicing and soon your post-processing and camera skills will pay dividends! Good Luck!

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

No no. The camera is brand new. They ordered one especially for me.
I´ve seen them taking it out of the box and everything was still in
sealed bags (I did give it a reset, though). If there´s a problem
it must be me. I returned the E500 to the store tonight and the
owner will now shoot with it the next couple of days. Friday we´ll
get together and evaluate but I must say that with the responses I
get here I feel I should just buy the camera because there´s
nothing wrong with it.

Click to expand...

--

A politician without tax money is just a public servant, so what does that make a taxpayer.......

Melbourne Park said:

You didn't answer about the film speed ... you should have been
shooting at 400.

Click to expand...

Sorry about that. I shot in Auto, 100, 400 and 800. But the white walls were looking grey.

Melbourne Park said:

You've said that you do a lot inside at parties: I think you'll
need a birghter lens than the standard kit lenses.

Click to expand...

There´s 2 lenses in the kit. From this forum I learned that the 40-150 is pretty good value for money and that the other ons must be traded in at first chance.

Melbourne Park said:

It's normal to get poor shots if its your first DSLR, BUT ensure
your really happy. I think for inside, the 11-22 and an E-1 is a
great combination. But its a lot more money than the E-500 kit
setup.

Click to expand...

I´d rather invest in a lens than in a body. So I will definitly look at other lenses.

Melbourne Park said:

I would also consider the Minolta D5, which has a stability system
built into the camera. Such stability in low low is worth 1.5
stops, a big benefit for not extra cost with that camera. Add a
bright wide angle to that camera and I think it would be a cheaper
way to get good inside low light shots than an 11-22 / E-1.

Click to expand...

I considered the D5, but it´s only 6.1 MP and no dust cleaning system. I ended up with olympus after reading the canon EOS 350D thread and learned about dust on the sensor. So, for me it´s either Olympus or wait until others implement the dust cleaning systems.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

I couldn´t find how to adjust the LCD screen settings (checked the
manual, couldn´t find it). Maybe it´s not adjustable.

Click to expand...

On the E-300 it is in the settingsmenu 2 just above sleep. I have no idea if it is any similar for you but it is worth a shot.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

Sorry about that. I shot in Auto, 100, 400 and 800. But the white
walls were looking grey.

Click to expand...

White walls will look grey without any exposure compensation of it is the predominant feature in the photo. The camera exposes everything for middle gray. Also a WB issue sometimes.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

There´s 2 lenses in the kit. From this forum I learned that the
40-150 is pretty good value for money and that the other ons must
be traded in at first chance.

Click to expand...

Not true the 14-45 is an excellent lens, just not as good as the 14-54.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

I´d rather invest in a lens than in a body. So I will definitly
look at other lenses.

Click to expand...

Lenses won't make your problems any better. Best to figure out was is happening first.

Yoddle Laheehoo said:

I considered the D5, but it´s only 6.1 MP and no dust cleaning
system. I ended up with olympus after reading the canon EOS 350D
thread and learned about dust on the sensor. So, for me it´s either
Olympus or wait until others implement the dust cleaning systems.

Click to expand...

One of the same reasons I bought the E-300.

Gene

Thanks, Ted. I think you are right about operator inexperience. I´ve seen a lot of tips so I think I´ll just buy the E500, continue learning about SLR photography and at the same time look for a good standard lens.