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Shadows with Canon G1 and flash

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Andrew56106

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I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--Andrew
 
Hi Andrew,

How about posting some photos so we can see what the problem is. The internal flash isn't that great to begin with and maybe we can help with the blurry photos too.
nahau
Andrew said:
I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not
had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not
just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--
Andrew
Click to expand...
 
You probably did know that but you will get noise free low light pictures from tripod (use remote control) with as low ISO (no more than 100 and preferable 50) you can set with the shutter speed as long as necessary (for your aperture setting) but at least 1.3 for kicking on the internal noise reduction.

Flash problem is very weird IMO coz I cant figure out any technical reason
for this which doesn' t mean that there could be some..

Jussi
Andrew said:
I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not
had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not
just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--
Andrew
Click to expand...
 
Andrew said:
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
Click to expand...
Probably a reason for this could be that the plane of the CCD is behind the location of the flash source. And because the internal flash is small in diameter and very near the lens it casts a shadow all around (not just on one side as it were with a flash farther away) that is seen from the viewpoint of the CCD.

There won't be much possibilities to work around this as you have litlle/no chance to put a light diffuser (is that the right word) in front of the internal flash.

The only solution to avoid shadows is to use an external flash and possibly do an indirect flash via the ceiling (which hopefully is white :-)...
Andrew56106 said:
Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.
Click to expand...
You surely need a tripod (or something steady to put the camera on) for any shutter speed slower than 1/60s. Makes me wonder how it worked without one with your EOS?!? Or do you speak of nightshots with flash?

Michael
 
Michael said:
Andrew said:
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I also have the same problem, but I believe it is due to the hood adapter (58mm) that I have on my G1. I haven't tested using the flash without the hood, but I'm willing to bet that the hood is blocking some of the flash - so I get rounded darkness in the bottom-right corner of shots taken landscape style.

KEv
 
Hi nahau,

Take a look at http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/vwp?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.dnm=girls.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/lst%3f%26.dir=/My%2bPhoto%2bAlbum%26.src=ph%26.view=t

for an example. I just noticed that with all my images that have the shadow problem, the shadow is on the right side of the individual when you're looking at the picture. I just noticed that the internal flash lies to the left of the lens when you're taking a picture. Would this explain the problem?

Andrew
nahau said:
Andrew said:
I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not
had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not
just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ooops, the URL below doesn't work. Try this instead:

http://photos.yahoo.com/ahlue

Then go into My Photo Album and select the photo called "girls".

Andrew
Andrew said:
Take a look at

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/vwp?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.dnm=girls.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/lst%3f%26.dir=/My%2bPhoto%2bAlbum%26.src=ph%26.view=t

for an example. I just noticed that with all my images that have
the shadow problem, the shadow is on the right side of the
individual when you're looking at the picture. I just noticed that
the internal flash lies to the left of the lens when you're taking
a picture. Would this explain the problem?

Andrew
nahau said:
Andrew said:
I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not
had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not
just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Michael,

Regarding the EOS night time pictures, they were taken with the internal flash.

Andrew
Michael said:
Andrew said:
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
Click to expand...
Probably a reason for this could be that the plane of the CCD is
behind the location of the flash source. And because the internal
flash is small in diameter and very near the lens it casts a shadow
all around (not just on one side as it were with a flash farther
away) that is seen from the viewpoint of the CCD.

There won't be much possibilities to work around this as you have
litlle/no chance to put a light diffuser (is that the right word)
in front of the internal flash.

The only solution to avoid shadows is to use an external flash and
possibly do an indirect flash via the ceiling (which hopefully is
white :-)...
Michael56126 said:
Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.
Click to expand...
You surely need a tripod (or something steady to put the camera on)
for any shutter speed slower than 1/60s. Makes me wonder how it
worked without one with your EOS?!? Or do you speak of nightshots
with flash?

Michael
Click to expand...
 
Andrew, I can not take shots with the G-1 at slow shutter speeds
as well as I could before the G-1. I suspect that for me, it is simply
a holding the camera problem. I simply don't have as good a grip
on the camera to provide the needed stillness. I am going to get
one of the add on cases with strap rings on each side. I used to
straighten my arms, pulling the neck strap tight to help keep
everything still. Having the strap on one side only compromises
this somewhat. I hope you find your answer.
Andrew said:
Regarding the EOS night time pictures, they were taken with the
internal flash.

Andrew
Michael said:
Andrew said:
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
Click to expand...
Probably a reason for this could be that the plane of the CCD is
behind the location of the flash source. And because the internal
flash is small in diameter and very near the lens it casts a shadow
all around (not just on one side as it were with a flash farther
away) that is seen from the viewpoint of the CCD.

There won't be much possibilities to work around this as you have
litlle/no chance to put a light diffuser (is that the right word)
in front of the internal flash.

The only solution to avoid shadows is to use an external flash and
possibly do an indirect flash via the ceiling (which hopefully is
white :-)...
Andrew56106 said:
Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.
Click to expand...
You surely need a tripod (or something steady to put the camera on)
for any shutter speed slower than 1/60s. Makes me wonder how it
worked without one with your EOS?!? Or do you speak of nightshots
with flash?

Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Flash -- the internal flash on the G1 is weak, and not really the greatest thing in the world. I've noticed shadows on my pictures similar to yours. The shadows you have are not caused by any kind of lens adapter (thats a different type of shadow altogether). The flash being on the left could account for your pictures right-hand shadow. With the G1 and most digi-cameras, if you want good flash photos, get an external flash. I just got a 420EX, and it's great. Bounce flash and diffusers will leave you searching for even a small shadow...

Blur - I haven't had much experience with SLR film camera's, but I would suspect that the Elan was using a film speed with a higher ISO than 50 or 100, so the shutter speeds were faster. You can change the ISO to 400 on the G1 and see if that helps the blur, but you will end up with a crappy, noisy picture. Stick to ISO 50 and get a tripod. The slow ISO needs longer shutter times, but it's not noisy, and the pictures should look good. The G1 takes wonderful night shots for me. I always use a tripod (for anything over 1/10sec, sometimes 1/25...). I think it's physically imposible to hold the camera as still as it needs to be to take a good picture, so it's not your fault. It's the slow shutter speed and the lack of tripod.

Hope that helps.
 
I would never ever use G1's internal flash. I decided on this on the very first flash shot and from then on I shot 1000+ shots with 380EX external flash (mostly bounced to light-yellow ceiling at 1/250 in Tv f2-f2.5).

Frankly, I brought G1 for the very single reason of this excellent output.

G1 is night-queen for me as you don't get all that magenta-cast, edge-focus kind of problems.

Buy a EX flash and bounce it.
Bob Williams said:
Andrew said:
Regarding the EOS night time pictures, they were taken with the
internal flash.

Andrew
Michael said:
Andrew said:
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
Click to expand...
Probably a reason for this could be that the plane of the CCD is
behind the location of the flash source. And because the internal
flash is small in diameter and very near the lens it casts a shadow
all around (not just on one side as it were with a flash farther
away) that is seen from the viewpoint of the CCD.

There won't be much possibilities to work around this as you have
litlle/no chance to put a light diffuser (is that the right word)
in front of the internal flash.

The only solution to avoid shadows is to use an external flash and
possibly do an indirect flash via the ceiling (which hopefully is
white :-)...
Member said:
Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.
Click to expand...
You surely need a tripod (or something steady to put the camera on)
for any shutter speed slower than 1/60s. Makes me wonder how it
worked without one with your EOS?!? Or do you speak of nightshots
with flash?

Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Andrew,

Ooohhh, those shadows! I wasn't really sure what you were referring to when you mentioned "halo". Yes unfortunately, this is common with any caamera where the internal flash is off to one side. I use a 420EX myself, and normally don't even notice the shadows. Bounce also will eliminate most shadows (well at least side shadows;-)).

As far as blurriness in the night photos, it really depends on how much available light you have on the subject and how far the camera happens to be from the subject... which of course will determine the speed in which you will be able to shoot, and the ability to focus. A tripod will only help if you have enough light on the subject to attain correct focus.

I don't have experience with the Elan, and so I can't comment on the differences.
nahau
Andrew said:
http://photos.yahoo.com/ahlue

Then go into My Photo Album and select the photo called "girls".

Andrew
Andrew said:
Take a look at

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/vwp?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.dnm=girls.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/ahlue/lst%3f%26.dir=/My%2bPhoto%2bAlbum%26.src=ph%26.view=t

for an example. I just noticed that with all my images that have
the shadow problem, the shadow is on the right side of the
individual when you're looking at the picture. I just noticed that
the internal flash lies to the left of the lens when you're taking
a picture. Would this explain the problem?

Andrew
nahau said:
Andrew said:
I've had the Canon G1 since the end of 2000 now. And I have not
had much luck with the built-in flash. Whenever I take an interior
shot of people with the flash enabled, I notice a shadow around the
person or people in the image. It's almost like a halo. This
happens with whoever is taking the photo. So the problem is not
just with me.

Also, practically all of my nightshots are blurry. Is it necessary
to take such shots with a tripod? I never had a problem taking
pictures with my Canon EOS Elan at night.

Has anyone else experienced these frustrations?

--
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Andrew said:
Regarding the EOS night time pictures, they were taken with the
internal flash.
Click to expand...
Andrew said:
Regarding the EOS night time pictures, they were taken with the
internal flash.
Click to expand...
I didn't do a lot of nightshots (just some for testing the noise reduction and the influence of the ISO settings) but there is a special night scene program which uses flash but leaves the shutter open to get the distant background too. If you used this it would explain the blurryness because the shutter will very likely be open long enough to pick up every slight shake of your hands (compare manual page 44). This mode only makes sense with a distant very dim background...

So the best thing would be to use auto mode (or P mode with flash enabled) which doesn't leave the shutter open so long (I think)...

Michael
 
Thanks for the feedback to you and everyone else. I'll look into the external flash and experiment with the ISO. As for the tripod, it's not too convenient for those on-the-whim shots. Oh well, cannot have everything...
KanedaG1 said:
Flash -- the internal flash on the G1 is weak, and not really the
greatest thing in the world. I've noticed shadows on my pictures
similar to yours. The shadows you have are not caused by any kind
of lens adapter (thats a different type of shadow altogether). The
flash being on the left could account for your pictures right-hand
shadow. With the G1 and most digi-cameras, if you want good flash
photos, get an external flash. I just got a 420EX, and it's great.
Bounce flash and diffusers will leave you searching for even a
small shadow...

Blur - I haven't had much experience with SLR film camera's, but I
would suspect that the Elan was using a film speed with a higher
ISO than 50 or 100, so the shutter speeds were faster. You can
change the ISO to 400 on the G1 and see if that helps the blur, but
you will end up with a crappy, noisy picture. Stick to ISO 50 and
get a tripod. The slow ISO needs longer shutter times, but it's
not noisy, and the pictures should look good. The G1 takes
wonderful night shots for me. I always use a tripod (for anything
over 1/10sec, sometimes 1/25...). I think it's physically
imposible to hold the camera as still as it needs to be to take a
good picture, so it's not your fault. It's the slow shutter speed
and the lack of tripod.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
 
Try a monopod, you might like it. Also, if you're looking at flash units you might also invest in a number 2 cord so you can detach the unit from the top of the camera. This lets you bounce in any direction. Kaneda's suggestion of a diffuser is also excellant. It softens portraits and great for group/family shots.

ms
Andrew said:
KanedaG1 said:
Flash -- the internal flash on the G1 is weak, and not really the
greatest thing in the world. I've noticed shadows on my pictures
similar to yours. The shadows you have are not caused by any kind
of lens adapter (thats a different type of shadow altogether). The
flash being on the left could account for your pictures right-hand
shadow. With the G1 and most digi-cameras, if you want good flash
photos, get an external flash. I just got a 420EX, and it's great.
Bounce flash and diffusers will leave you searching for even a
small shadow...

Blur - I haven't had much experience with SLR film camera's, but I
would suspect that the Elan was using a film speed with a higher
ISO than 50 or 100, so the shutter speeds were faster. You can
change the ISO to 400 on the G1 and see if that helps the blur, but
you will end up with a crappy, noisy picture. Stick to ISO 50 and
get a tripod. The slow ISO needs longer shutter times, but it's
not noisy, and the pictures should look good. The G1 takes
wonderful night shots for me. I always use a tripod (for anything
over 1/10sec, sometimes 1/25...). I think it's physically
imposible to hold the camera as still as it needs to be to take a
good picture, so it's not your fault. It's the slow shutter speed
and the lack of tripod.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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