Help! Apple Mac - The Pro's choice? or not?

It's pretty obvious that the author of this article is not objective; I'm not impressed by childish comments like "cheapass Dell", and I'd be a lot more interested in hearing the opinion of a grownup. The point about Macs being more-or-less virus-proof is a valid one, though.

By the way, I am not biased toward the PC; I have both a Mac and a PC and I prefer the Mac for photography and graphics work and the PC for business apps and number-crunching, but that's just my preference. The differences between Mac and PC versions of Photoshop are in the interface; both versions can open the same file formats and are capable producing results of the same quality. I don't know if the same holds for other image-editing programs, though. But basically it boils down to personal preference.
 
Primarily Photoshop work, but also use it for day-to-day production tasks, archiving, cataloging, etc. I originally learned PS on the Mac and used it exclusively there, but eventually got frustrated with the speed disadvantage and bought a copy for Windows. All that work no occurs there.
I have nothing against the Mac... I just get more work done more
quickly on a PC. Everyone has to make their own choice/conclusion
on the tools they use.
Doing what?
 
Also a specific niche in photography.

There's no question the Mac is over-represented in the graphic arts world. But for that market segment, Apple would have disappeared from the planet long ago.

But it's their long-term entrenchment there that accounts for their use, not some inherent technical advantage. The Adobe products acount for the vast majority of use, and they've led the way in making truly cross-platform applications that work equally well in both. And for my money, PS works better (read "faster") under Windows!
I use both, and prefer the mac. That said, choose the one that
makes you happy, and don't worry about what the "Pro's" are using.
The Pro's use both, According to Kodak's research, it's about 50/50.
If Kodak is right, in the overall perspective of all computer
users, 50/50 means a lot for the Mac.
… but there are other voices outthere, like this RIT survey:
http://www.rit.edu/~survey03/stat.html

(scroll down to point B)
 
There are ways of speeding up the Mac that many don't use.
RAM scratch disks, RAID arrays, more RAM…

Working with large files (like I do; sometimes in excess of 2GB) is hard on PCs and in some odd cases, impossible.
 
Also a specific niche in photography.

There's no question the Mac is over-represented in the graphic arts
world. But for that market segment, Apple would have disappeared
from the planet long ago.

But it's their long-term entrenchment there that accounts for their
use, not some inherent technical advantage. The Adobe products
acount for the vast majority of use, and they've led the way in
making truly cross-platform applications that work equally well in
both. And for my money, PS works better (read "faster") under
Windows!
No, it doesn't! (ah! for the money… maybe)
 
Those same techniques work equally well for boosting Windows performance, too.

While a 2GB file is a challenge for most desktop machines, there's no technical reason it should be any less doable under XP than OS X.
There are ways of speeding up the Mac that many don't use.
RAM scratch disks, RAID arrays, more RAM…

Working with large files (like I do; sometimes in excess of 2GB) is
hard on PCs and in some odd cases, impossible.
 
First of all, I learned Photoshop on a Mac way back in the early 90's, yet Windows was my platform of choice. I can't say that Windows 3.0 was anything to write home about, but it worked and the Windows machines from that era were definitely cheaper than Macs, and as you may recall, they both crashed on a regular basis. It was maddening to say the least.

With Mac's OS 9, the divide between reliability began to widen in Mac's favor, especially as the Internet became a common element for both platforms. Windows closed the gap with their XP OS. I think I can say that both are fairly crash proof if you take Internet problems out of the equation, but with Mac's holding the edge on overall reliablilty. Unix is the gold standard, and Mac was smart to embrace it with their overall architecture.

I still do Photoshop on both machines, because I teach digital imaging and need to be sharp on both, because many of my students have Windows macnines at home and I need to assist with any problems that may arise.

However, when it came to designing and building our own computer labs in our Art Department, there was no question as to the fact that we were going to install them with Macs. The irony here is that on paper, Windows machines look better. In real life, acutal performance has little to do with overblown specs, and things like megahertz speed are definitely not indicators of overall performance. We had to take things like performance and reliability into consideration when going with one platform over the other and Windows macnines definitely lag far behind when all of the Internet problems are figured into the equation, such as viruses, spyware and so on. We simply cannot afford to have our computers down or not performing as well as they should because like everyone else in academia, budgets are gettting tighter and tighter.

Our computer labs are up and running nearly 100% of the time, and I am sure it is because we use the Mac platform. Factor in heavy use from programs like Photoshop, Quark, Dreamweaver, etc., and you end up with computers that are run through their paces every day, and then some. I constantly hear from colleagues around the university that are driven crazy by their Windows machines that are constantly running dramatically slower that they should because of constant bugs, viruses and spyware. Their IT guys are in a constanat struggle to keep the machines going and there are always a few that are out of commission. No thanks.

If I could only have one computer, it would be a Mac, which is exactly what I advise our photography students, especially as their newer more economically priced machines arrive on the market that are blistering competitors for equally priced Windows machines.

I would take digidog's comments into heavy consideration because he appears to be someone more critically involved in the technical end of digital imaging than the average pro, and is used to quantifying all of the elements that go into the digital imaging equation.
Anyway, I am really more interested in the usability aspect from a
photographers point of view than the technical merits of the OS.
Photoshop is Photoshop on either OS. There are applications on one
OS, not on the other and vise versa. Personally I vastly prefer the
usability of the Mac but I realize others feel the opposite. OS X
is a very nice, modern, 21 century OS that's real stable.
--
Andrew Rodney
Author of Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
--
LMcNeil
All comments by McNeil are Copyrighted LMcNeil, All Rights
Reserved, 2004. Feel free to comment on my material, it is posted
here for educational purposes as put forth in the spirit of the Forums.
 
How do you make a 5GB RAM disk on PC?
(the Mac can hold 8GB)
Hmm, considering that the latest Powermac G5 has a maximum capacity for 8GB of RAM, how do you propose using the entire amount as a RAM disk? That doesn't leave much (read none) of the RAM left for running apps. Or are you mincing terms with the use of RAM Disk?

danh
 
Anyway, I am really more interested in the usability aspect from a
photographers point of view than the technical merits of the OS.
Photoshop is Photoshop on either OS. There are applications on one
OS, not on the other and vise versa. Personally I vastly prefer the
usability of the Mac but I realize others feel the opposite. OS X
is a very nice, modern, 21 century OS that's real stable.
--
Andrew Rodney
Author of Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
--
LMcNeil
All comments by McNeil are Copyrighted LMcNeil, All Rights
Reserved, 2004. Feel free to comment on my material, it is posted
here for educational purposes as put forth in the spirit of the
Forums.
--
http://pbase.com/acroix
 
elwood,

actually my research seems to indicate that mac are prefered as
soon as art come into play. here in the atl area we have some art
institutes which exclusively use the apple platform. but photoshop
et al work as good on pc as they work on mac, aren't they? you see
my problem?

most people i have asked so far have voice an opinion when it comes
to their choice of platform, seldom one could nail down the facts.
Ok, here are the primary reasons, and they are not application
specific:

on the Mac:
1. color management is built-in to the OS not a bolt on addition to
each application
Windows XP has built-in color management.
2. PostScript font support is built-in to the OS. Windows OS while
capable of dealing with PS fonts, would really rather to only use
true-type.
I agree that built-in PS font support is nice.... on the other hand, any Windows XP owner who has ever bought an Adobe product almost certainly has ATM installed and can use PS fonts just fine.
3. Almost universal support for "drag and drop", "cut and paste".
Same is true for Windows XP... don't know why you'd think otherwise.
4. direct keyboard support for extended characters ( bullet,
trademark symbol, copyright symbol, etc). NO need to type escape
sequences or backslash sequences.
The keystrokes for accessing extended characters on the Mac are every bit as arbitrary and no more easy to learn than the escape sequences on Windows. For example, the Mac's copyright symbol is accessed via Option-G. Where is the "G" in copyright? I must have missed it. If you have to learn arbitrary assignments, then the escape codes on Windows make just as much sense, and I don't have any problems remembering ALT-0169 for the copyright symbol.
5. To date (and this is of coarse subject to change in the future)
I have never had to worry about opening email attachements, as none
of the current viruses affect the Mac.
It's not quite true that there have been NO viruses for the Mac, but I acknowledge that they are far, far less common. On the other hand, if you think EMAIL is the only way that a virus can spread, you're probably in for a rude awakening some day.
6. Multitasking and Multiprocessor support is built directly into
the OS, so even non-multiprocessor aware apps, will still use more
than one processor.
The same is true for Windows XP, and it works in pretty much the same way. Any application with more than one execution thread can run on multiple processors at the same time.
7. Plug-and-Play that works. Meaning almost no drivers need to be
installed, and there is no such thing as hardware configuration.
Plug in the firewire or USB device and they work as expected. (I
can't tell you the number of hours I've seen wasted on windows
systems, where people were trying to get something as simple as
their printer to work correctly)
If you take all the hardware devices that are Macintosh compatible at all, you'll find that they all pretty much plug and play with the PC just as easily. Generally, it's the devices that aren't even available for the Macintosh that are occasionally harder to get working on Windows.

On the other hand, it took like 3 updates to OS X before my Epson inkjet printer was supported by my iMac, and even then it only works when connected directly to the computer, I can't use my network print server with the Mac because the printer driver cannot be configured to talk to the printer that way.

That's right... I said "my iMac" -- I've been a Mac user since 1985 and my current machine is an iMac running OS X 10.2 Panther.
8. much simpler display spanning and mirroring for laptops. PCs are
a royal pain when using video projectors. Everyone of them has some
different set of keys and options for switching between the
built-in display and the projector.
Not quite sure why you'd be complaining about video projectors and blaming their control panels on the PC, but I've been running a dual-monitor setup for years on my PC and it's every bit as easy as with the Macintosh. All you do is plug in the second monitor, then go to the control panel to decide if you want it to be a clone of the first, or if you want it to span.
9. true logical volume support. None of this silly hard referenced
C: D: E: drive stuff.
Any Windows application that wants to address things using the volume name can easily do so. You don't even have to have a drive letter assigned to a volume if you don't want to. (Even though it probably does make life easier in some respects.)
10. a ton of other small things, like the OS is smart enough to
know when there isn't enough room on a drive to copy a file, so you
don't waste time copying a file when it wont fit.
I totally agree with that. The file copying feature on the Mac is much smarter. Not really much a reason to pick one machine over another, however.

Mike
 
5. To date (and this is of coarse subject to change in the future)
I have never had to worry about opening email attachements, as none
of the current viruses affect the Mac.
It's not quite true that there have been NO viruses for the Mac,
but I acknowledge that they are far, far less common. On the
other hand, if you think EMAIL is the only way that a virus can
spread, you're probably in for a rude awakening some day.
– Yes there are NO virus for mac, it has been a trojan, and something else, a mask perhaps, that required to install and start it, not much of a virus…
 
5. To date (and this is of coarse subject to change in the future)
I have never had to worry about opening email attachements, as none
of the current viruses affect the Mac.
It's not quite true that there have been NO viruses for the Mac,
but I acknowledge that they are far, far less common. On the
other hand, if you think EMAIL is the only way that a virus can
spread, you're probably in for a rude awakening some day.
– Yes there are NO virus for mac, it has been a trojan, and
something else, a mask perhaps, that required to install and start
it, not much of a virus…
The concepts of "trojan" and "virus" are not mutually exclusive. A 'virus' is simply a piece of code that is self-replicating in some fashion. There have been plenty of viruses that use the trojan horse method of getting into a system. Once in the system by whatever means, if it seeks to replicate itself at all, then by definition it's a virus.

Mike
 
No, actually only the very latest G5 versions can support 8GB. The vast majority of Macs out there are limited to 2GB or less....mine to less than a 1GB, despite spending twice as much for it as I did for my primary P4 box that support 4GB.

With the EMT64 extensions Win XP will address up to 256TB, although it will be interesting to see how big a motherboard will be required to support that much memory!
How do you make a 5GB RAM disk on PC?
(the Mac can hold 8GB)
 
2GB for Photoshop + 1 for the System and iTunes + 5GB for the RAM
disk = 8GB

How much RAM can your PC hold?
Ok first off, I just want to say I am not interested in starting up another p1ssing match, I was just trying to clarify. Read my other posts in this thread and you will see I advocate using what works best for the individual.

I was just trying to clarify your post. It was unclear when you said the G5 can hold 8.

That said, I can buy a PC now with the ability to hold 16GB RAM. Of course I have to run the RC version of XP, but I can have that beat technically. The bottom line is trying to argue Mac vs PC on technical specs is a wasted effort. Both will be leapfrogging each other constantly.

I also doubt that the majority of pro photographers here need a system of your size to begin with (Everyone wiith 8GB or RAM in their system raise your hand).

Bottom line, as I said in my other posts, I don't think the original poster can go wrong with either platform. Even given how cross compatible the platforms are, a PC user in a predominately Mac industry can do fine.

danh
 
5. To date (and this is of coarse subject to change in the future)
I have never had to worry about opening email attachements, as none
of the current viruses affect the Mac.
It's not quite true that there have been NO viruses for the Mac,
but I acknowledge that they are far, far less common. On the
other hand, if you think EMAIL is the only way that a virus can
spread, you're probably in for a rude awakening some day.
– Yes there are NO virus for mac, it has been a trojan, and
something else, a mask perhaps, that required to install and start
it, not much of a virus…
The concepts of "trojan" and "virus" are not mutually exclusive. A
'virus' is simply a piece of code that is self-replicating in some
fashion. There have been plenty of viruses that use the trojan
horse method of getting into a system. Once in the system by
whatever means, if it seeks to replicate itself at all, then by
definition it's a virus.
– Yes, however, as a macintosh user I doesnt have to know, think or worry about this since it has never happend! In future, perhaps…
 
I am trying to make up my mind what my next notebook should be.

Spending several hours on the internet to look into an Apple
Powerbook I still can not figure out why the Apple platform is
considered to be superior to PC platform for commercial artwork.

I do have extensive experience in the Windows and Linux world, but
lack the same regarding the Mac's.

I would really appreciate some pros and cons whether it is
worthwhile to switch from PC to Mac from a photographers / web
designers perspective.
I thought I would proved a slightly different view from most people.

You mentioned a background of Linux and Windows. From that standpoint I would definitely recommend a Mac, since you have all of the abilities for scripting you had under linux - one of the programs I bought a while ago is a package called "ExifUtils" which is a command line tool to manage viewing and modifying EXIF data. It makes it really easy to modify EXIF data in batch.

Beyond that, pretty much the full set of UNIX utilities you might be used to are there and with a great level of integration. It's very easy to open documents for working on from the shell (Bash by default) and send Applescript messages to other apps. It also has good Finder integration for a nice mix of GUI and command line use.

But beyond just this, consider the near-term future of the Mac. Tiger is due out very shortly now (before July probably) and will have a number of compelling things related to workflow. It will have a real system-wide searching ability that will find things you look for inside EXIF or other nooks and crannies of files not normally searchable. It will have the Dashboard, a handy place to have useful widgets that you access a lot but don't need to see all the time.

The last item was touched on briefly before - Applescript. With Tiger you are going to have Automator, which should make it easy to put together scripts that work across apps (not just within apps) to automate something. Imagine having an Applescript that loads an image into Photoshop, fires off an action, then perhaps takes that finished image and passes it off to a blog tool or CMS system or what have you. Powerful stuff, and very accessible. Microsoft apps have COM of course but it's much harder for the average person to use effective outside of Microsoft apps.

I would say anyone with any kind of UNIX experience should absolutely get a Mac, as you'll really be able to be more productive than with Windows.

--
---> Kendall
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home
Alaska gallery: http://www.kigiphoto.com/alaska
 

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