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Nikon profits triples

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While Nikon may not have the financial assets that Canon has at its disposal, I find it highly unlikely that it will be "taken over." Being that Nikon is owned by Mitsubishi (wich I don't know for sure, but I am betting is bigger than Canon), it doesn't really seem within the realm of possibility. I don't know why all you canon trolls want Nikon to fail anyway...If Nikon folds Canon is going to forget about competative pricing, and start enlarging their profit by taking it out of your pocket.
pdw said:
Yes, Canon learns things while making copiers or whatever else that
help them with digital cameras. Canon makes a lot of camcorders
and has for a long time. A camcorder has a lens that produces an
image on a sensor. Sounds a lot like a digital camera. I'm sure
that experience helps.

Nikon's financial strength isn't the greatest and hasn't been for
quite awhile. That means there's a good chance for them to be
taken over and it means they can't put as much money into R&D or
take a big chance with a product (notice there's no full frame
Nikon DSLR yet even though it's completely possible).

I've spent a lot of money on Nikon products and would like to see
them survive. I'm not hugely worried about it because even if they
are slightly behind Canon in terms of DSLR's, they way ahead of who
ever is in 3rd place (Olympus maybe?).

Personally, I think Fuji buying Nikon wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Backdoctor said:
change this from how well Nikon is doing to how bad they are doing.
What a bag of wind. Go back to your Canon forum and troll there.

Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
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die without Canon. Hey, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you , real cheap.
Paul Pope said:
CraigH said:
Paul Pope said:
Nikons return on Captial 7.9%
Canons return on Captial 34.8%

Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
I'm fact its already happening somewhat.... their two most recent
flagship DSLR's failed to establish anything like market leadership
in thier segments and were soundly trumped by new model Canons
within a short time of being annouced.
Fact is that Nikon is supporting its marketshare with its brand
name and reputation alone.Its recent history of too little too late
new product releases is enough evidence of that. After a while it
will become obvious to even diehard Nikonians that Nikon can no
longer financialy support the rapid product development cycles
required and sales will falter and they will be reduced to playing
a bit part.
For a company that makes Fab equipment .... I just can't see why
they will not invest in the only thing that can save them.
Member said:
CraigH said:
Some much for gloom and doom canon troll predictions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
--
Craig H. north jersey
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
 
mixtura said:
Their new 20d is not a big improvement over
10d – same camera with 8mp sensor.
Click to expand...
Actually, I understand the power management is much better on the 20d, and that would be a big issue for me with the 10d (in particular that fact that's not always instantly ready like the D100/70)
 
Back in the late 80's when I started photography with a Canon F-1 and T-90 I was seen as nomad in a sea of pro Nikon shooters. Back then technology was not as important as it is today. All you needed it was a realiable camera with nice fast optics surrounded by a nice system.

What shifted the tide was technology and Canon's willingness to come out with innovative features like USM, IS, fast and usable AF, among others. Nikon has finally caught Canon on those great pro features but now are trying to catch them in sensor technology. What I really beleive is happening and will continue to happen is the company with smaller pockets will be continually try to catch the company with the deep pockets in the forseeable future. In this age technology will rule and money gives you more R&D for that technology.
CraigH said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aMT8qLVIQcBY&refer=japan
--
Craig H. north jersey
Click to expand...
--
http://www.sharokinisayo.com
http://www.josefisayo.com
 
Nikon has
Better metering
Better Flash system
Better AF
and great bodies....

But they can't keep up after having a big head start with the D1... and that forced my to change my system.

That until a month or so ago the D1x was still a shipping product is a disgrace to Nikon.

I dislike Nikon because they let me down ..... after I used them for 15 years ...
  • If so, then why
-X- said:
so much angst towards Nikon?
Click to expand...
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
 
I don't recall ever claiming to be anything other then someone in the imaging business.

I don't have any artisitc vison, never claimed to have one .... but I have a great business.

I'm not interested in taking good photos ...I'm interested in taking saleable images .... sometimes the two meet but more often then not they do not.

Good looking Girls are indeed a dime a dozen but as long as the dimes end up in my pocket I'm happy.
David Bogdan said:
Paul Pope said:
Pays my bills .... and thats all I want it to do ;-)
The true art of photography my a$$ ..... I'm a businessman
Click to expand...
Well at least you admit it... Good lookin girls are a dime a
dozen... and bound to make you look good . I've seen nothing other
than girls in your posts, that is nothing that indicates that you
may have an artistic vision. Now what are you doing over here
anyway? Why don't you slither back home and post to those that
might care.
davidbogdan
dbogdan said:
-X- wrote:
As for a
dbogdan said:
true photographer, that I doubt you will ever be!
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
 
Escaping said:
Paul Pope said:
Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
Click to expand...
For our sake (those who spend hard earned dollars to buy cameras
either for pleasure or for a job), I wish Nikon (and Olympus and
Minolta and Pentax as well others) to be successful in competing
with Canon and to be profitable in order to fund on-going R&D.

If Canon ends up dominating all the other makers of cameras, guess
who will end up paying more dollars for slowed down developments in
the technologies behind the cameras.

I happen to own a few Nikon (and a few Pentax and a couple Contax
G's)for many years, thus I (selfishly) would love to see Nikon
continue to make money so they can continue to make better cameras
but I would wish the same success for the others.

We can all benefit from the fierce competition in the DSLR market
right now. Just look at the rangefinder market and see how much
Epson is charging for the RD-1. I also love using a rnagefinder
but that market lacks the right level of competition to make it
affordable for those of us who earn hard dollars for whatever we do.

--
Escaping (CT, USA) http://www.pbase.com/cvanlang
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
 
You have a point...But R&D is not everything. And besides, Nikon's tactic of farming out the development of sensors is not necessarily a bad one. Canon users like to make much of Canon's sensor development capabilities, but there is something to be said for partnering with other companies. What if Foven were to suddenly overcome all the problems they have had with their sensors? Nikon could slap that in a body, and sell it at a nice mark up. But Canon with its devotion to using its own CMOS would not be able to adopt this new tech so easily. Frankly if it works well I don't care who makes it.
DigitalJournalist said:
DigitalJournalist said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aMT8qLVIQcBY&refer=japan
--
Craig H. north jersey
Click to expand...
--
http://www.sharokinisayo.com
http://www.josefisayo.com
Click to expand...
 
There's no need to be an a-hole. Part of my master's thesis was on Japanese business and I own roughly $25k worth of Nikon stuff and $0 worth of Canon stuff. You may find it unlikely but it's completely possible as companies sell off divisions all the time. It is a fact that over the last decade, Nikon has not done well financially. If you don't believe me, look it up.

But really, saying Nikon is "owned" by Mitsubishi shows your ignorance. Mitsubishi in that context is not the same company that makes cars and TV's (even those two aren't really the same company unlike say Yamaha motorcycles and stereos which really are from the same company). Mitsubishi is a kiretsu which has no direct comparison here. It's a large group of companies which do share some resources but are mostly tied together because they're at least partially owned or tied to a huge bank, Mitsubishi financial in this case. Nikon is part of that. It's not the same as being part of the same company. Even if Mitsubishi were a typical conglomerate, it's not like that's any guarantee of Nikon's health. Mitsubishi Motors is in horrible financial health. They're so bad that Daimler-Chrysler refused to buy them.

So, I made a number of points and you only try refute one, and weakly at that. What I said are facts of business. So educate me if you're such an expert. For the record, I want to see Nikon survive. Or, at least, I want to see the F-mount survive because I have a lot of money sunk in it but Nikon's financial health worries me. I mention Fuji because they make great sensors but put them in lame bodies.
James McBee said:
pdw said:
Sure, Canon makes a lot of money off it's copier, printer and other
non-camera business. All of that helps them to be a stronger
company and those other lines of business help support that cameras
both financially and in terms of technology carry over. Return on
capital is return on capital.

Yes, Canon learns things while making copiers or whatever else that
help them with digital cameras. Canon makes a lot of camcorders
and has for a long time. A camcorder has a lens that produces an
image on a sensor. Sounds a lot like a digital camera. I'm sure
that experience helps.

Nikon's financial strength isn't the greatest and hasn't been for
quite awhile. That means there's a good chance for them to be
taken over and it means they can't put as much money into R&D or
take a big chance with a product (notice there's no full frame
Nikon DSLR yet even though it's completely possible).

I've spent a lot of money on Nikon products and would like to see
them survive. I'm not hugely worried about it because even if they
are slightly behind Canon in terms of DSLR's, they way ahead of who
ever is in 3rd place (Olympus maybe?).

Personally, I think Fuji buying Nikon wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I'll further say that these are cameras, not religion. Like I said, I want to see Nikon survive but putting your head in the sand about their financial health is ridiculous.
pdw said:
There's no need to be an a-hole. Part of my master's thesis was on
Japanese business and I own roughly $25k worth of Nikon stuff and
$0 worth of Canon stuff. You may find it unlikely but it's
completely possible as companies sell off divisions all the time.
It is a fact that over the last decade, Nikon has not done well
financially. If you don't believe me, look it up.

But really, saying Nikon is "owned" by Mitsubishi shows your
ignorance. Mitsubishi in that context is not the same company that
makes cars and TV's (even those two aren't really the same company
unlike say Yamaha motorcycles and stereos which really are from the
same company). Mitsubishi is a kiretsu which has no direct
comparison here. It's a large group of companies which do share
some resources but are mostly tied together because they're at
least partially owned or tied to a huge bank, Mitsubishi financial
in this case. Nikon is part of that. It's not the same as being
part of the same company. Even if Mitsubishi were a typical
conglomerate, it's not like that's any guarantee of Nikon's health.
Mitsubishi Motors is in horrible financial health. They're so bad
that Daimler-Chrysler refused to buy them.

So, I made a number of points and you only try refute one, and
weakly at that. What I said are facts of business. So educate me
if you're such an expert. For the record, I want to see Nikon
survive. Or, at least, I want to see the F-mount survive because I
have a lot of money sunk in it but Nikon's financial health worries
me. I mention Fuji because they make great sensors but put them in
lame bodies.
Click to expand...
 
You make a good point, but most companies will not invest as much in lower rate of return business segments and R&D for those parts of the business for very long. It would be interesting to compare the financial performance of the DSLR parts of each company. Of course that has nothing to do with the performance of the cameras they manufacture.

Laslo
pdw said:
Yes, Canon learns things while making copiers or whatever else that
help them with digital cameras. Canon makes a lot of camcorders
and has for a long time. A camcorder has a lens that produces an
image on a sensor. Sounds a lot like a digital camera. I'm sure
that experience helps.

Nikon's financial strength isn't the greatest and hasn't been for
quite awhile. That means there's a good chance for them to be
taken over and it means they can't put as much money into R&D or
take a big chance with a product (notice there's no full frame
Nikon DSLR yet even though it's completely possible).

I've spent a lot of money on Nikon products and would like to see
them survive. I'm not hugely worried about it because even if they
are slightly behind Canon in terms of DSLR's, they way ahead of who
ever is in 3rd place (Olympus maybe?).

Personally, I think Fuji buying Nikon wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Backdoctor said:
change this from how well Nikon is doing to how bad they are doing.
What a bag of wind. Go back to your Canon forum and troll there.

Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
Click to expand...
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--
lv1
 
Actually accdg to Phil the profits nikon enjoyed are due to other businesses as well, not just cameras.
J i m said:
Paul Pope said:
Nikons return on Captial 7.9%
Canons return on Captial 34.8%

Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
I'm fact its already happening somewhat.... their two most recent
flagship DSLR's failed to establish anything like market leadership
in thier segments and were soundly trumped by new model Canons
within a short time of being annouced.
Fact is that Nikon is supporting its marketshare with its brand
name and reputation alone.Its recent history of too little too late
new product releases is enough evidence of that. After a while it
will become obvious to even diehard Nikonians that Nikon can no
longer financialy support the rapid product development cycles
required and sales will falter and they will be reduced to playing
a bit part.
For a company that makes Fab equipment .... I just can't see why
they will not invest in the only thing that can save them.
J i m said:
CraigH said:
Some much for gloom and doom canon troll predictions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hey! The 1v/1d bodyis only three years old or so, the f5 was much older and nobody updated it till last year, me I like my 1d just fine, I wouldn't change a thing, neither will a lot of pros, the d2h was supposed to attract pros back with their new body, has it happened, all it succeded in attracting were mostly weekend amateurs ( don't get mad, it's true ).
maxz said:
Paul Pope said:
Nikons return on Captial 7.9%
Canons return on Captial 34.8%

Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
I'm fact its already happening somewhat.... their two most recent
flagship DSLR's failed to establish anything like market leadership
in thier segments and were soundly trumped by new model Canons
within a short time of being annouced.
Fact is that Nikon is supporting its marketshare with its brand
name and reputation alone.Its recent history of too little too late
new product releases is enough evidence of that. After a while it
will become obvious to even diehard Nikonians that Nikon can no
longer financialy support the rapid product development cycles
required and sales will falter and they will be reduced to playing
a bit part.
For a company that makes Fab equipment .... I just can't see why
they will not invest in the only thing that can save them.
maxz said:
CraigH said:
Some much for gloom and doom canon troll predictions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Well, where the 8mp sensor then : P ?
mixtura said:
Daemeon said:
mixtura said:
"Nikon should rename itself PolaroidAgain Inc"
All that heat starts to work against you in Australian
Click to expand...
That the vast majority of DSLR owners buy canon merely because of
the megapixel count?? Interesting.......

Ridiculous..........but interesting nonetheless.
mixtura said:
Outback…right mate?
You really have some sort of issues. I don't know if it's the
heat, or you simply lacking a few screws. If Nikon would end up
"marginalized", than you precious Canon will produce crappy camera
and charge and arm and a leg for it. Why? No competition.
Besides, it is not as if Canon is producing any superior cameras
than the competition. Their new 20d is not a big improvement over
10d – same camera with 8mp sensor. Canon’s popping cameras right
left and center with no major improvements other then bigger
sensors. IMHO their ergonomics are eons behind Nikon. Canon's
flash system, and their metering are behind as well. People don’t
buy a camera because it has more megapixels.
So enjoy the heat, feed your kangaroos, keep to your prized canon
forum and don’t post ridiculous comments on other forums that
really make no sense. You actually make yourself look stupid.
Click to expand...
--The artist formerly known as The Krakken
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
James McBee said:
You have a point...But R&D is not everything. And besides, Nikon's
tactic of farming out the development of sensors is not necessarily
a bad one. Canon users like to make much of Canon's sensor
development capabilities, but there is something to be said for
partnering with other companies. What if Foven were to suddenly
overcome all the problems they have had with their sensors? Nikon
could slap that in a body, and sell it at a nice mark up. But Canon
with its devotion to using its own CMOS would not be able to adopt
this new tech so easily. Frankly if it works well I don't care who
makes it.
Click to expand...
Well, R&D may not be "everything", but without it, it's a little hard to keep up with the competition. As for sensors, Canon did patent a Foveon-like sensor technology in 2002:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0205/02051503canonpatent.asp

I wouldn't be surprised if they've been tweaking with it all this time. And a company like Canon probably has a lot more money to throw at it than a tiny company like Foveon would ever have. Plus, Canon has said that they would be open to using any sensor technology from any source, if there was an advantage in doing it (translated from the original Japanese): http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canonplans.html . So don't think Canon is blindly devoted to their own CMOS, and unable or unwilling to partner with other companies. Remember that the 1D's sensor came from an outside company. Plus, I'm sure many companies would jump at the chance to put their sensor into a Canon body, because that spells $$$ for them. Think of how happy Foveon would be if Canon opted to use their sensors. Many may not know this, but the original Foveon prototype used a Canon EF mount:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp .

And so did the Foveon Studio System: http://www.digital-photography.org/digital_photography_cameras/Foveon_digital_camera.html

Who knows, maybe if CMOS hadn't panned out for Canon, they would have just gone with Foveon.

But getting back to the R&D topic, R&D is the lifeblood of technology companies. You can get by with a smaller budget, but that could mean it takes you longer to put out products. And if a company repeatedly takes longer to put out products (compared to the competition)...well, they tend to fall behind, or leave customers with the perception of them falling behind. And neither is very beneficial to a company competing in a competitive arena.
 
Amen Paul. Beware though, the dpreview rapid response team will
call you all sorts of names and even disparage your mother.

Nikon used to serve professionals, now it is merely adequate for amateurs and semi-professionals.

Oh well, even the Roman empire fell at some point.
Paul Pope said:
Nikons return on Captial 7.9%
Canons return on Captial 34.8%

Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
I'm fact its already happening somewhat.... their two most recent
flagship DSLR's failed to establish anything like market leadership
in thier segments and were soundly trumped by new model Canons
within a short time of being annouced.
Fact is that Nikon is supporting its marketshare with its brand
name and reputation alone.Its recent history of too little too late
new product releases is enough evidence of that. After a while it
will become obvious to even diehard Nikonians that Nikon can no
longer financialy support the rapid product development cycles
required and sales will falter and they will be reduced to playing
a bit part.
For a company that makes Fab equipment .... I just can't see why
they will not invest in the only thing that can save them.
Member said:
CraigH said:
Some much for gloom and doom canon troll predictions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
 
The 1d design is a classic in the sense of a M. Buonarroti. Nikon should have kept their eye on the sensor ball instead of trying to wow us with a new body and a friggn high-school grade sensor on the d2h.

Get real. Real professionals demand more.
maxz said:
Paul Pope said:
Nikons return on Captial 7.9%
Canons return on Captial 34.8%

Its only a matter of time before their lack of financial strength
really begins to hurt them badly in the marketplace ...and then
they will end up like Minolta or Olympus .... marginalised.
I'm fact its already happening somewhat.... their two most recent
flagship DSLR's failed to establish anything like market leadership
in thier segments and were soundly trumped by new model Canons
within a short time of being annouced.
Fact is that Nikon is supporting its marketshare with its brand
name and reputation alone.Its recent history of too little too late
new product releases is enough evidence of that. After a while it
will become obvious to even diehard Nikonians that Nikon can no
longer financialy support the rapid product development cycles
required and sales will falter and they will be reduced to playing
a bit part.
For a company that makes Fab equipment .... I just can't see why
they will not invest in the only thing that can save them.
maxz said:
CraigH said:
Some much for gloom and doom canon troll predictions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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