Photosmart Printer was a mistake

Ron Parr · Jan 25, 2000

bob said:
As far as range of photos....I have seen enough to convince me to keep my
$4oo or buy the new Epison....and I'm an HP fan!

Try this:

http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/imaging/index.html

Ok, Bob. I took the bait. I went ahead and printed the photo in the review at 7.5x10 and then scanned it in. I can't argue with you about this: Under magnification, the Epsons (esp. the 750) have much smoother color.

I focused mostly on the kid's eye and IMO, the old PhotoSmart comes up very poorly in this comparison. You can't tell the color of the kid's eyes on the photosmart scans. My 970's output had a very grainy look when zoomed in, but it did preserve more of the image.

Subjectively, I'd have to say that this one of the worst performances for my 970 yet. Even at normal viewing distances, I was able to notice some dithering in the Kid's face, the red cup and the yellow bucket. If I have time later, I'll mess with the settings and see if I can come up with anything better. For now, I'd be surprised if Epson didn't do better on this shot.

Ron

bob · Jan 25, 2000

Ron,
Which printer(s) do you have?

Ron Parr said:
bob said:

As far as range of photos....I have seen enough to convince me to keep my
$4oo or buy the new Epison....and I'm an HP fan!

Try this:

http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/imaging/index.html

Click to expand...

Ok, Bob. I took the bait. I went ahead and printed the photo in the
review at 7.5x10 and then scanned it in. I can't argue with you about
this: Under magnification, the Epsons (esp. the 750) have much smoother
color.

I focused mostly on the kid's eye and IMO, the old PhotoSmart comes up
very poorly in this comparison. You can't tell the color of the kid's
eyes on the photosmart scans. My 970's output had a very grainy look
when zoomed in, but it did preserve more of the image.

Subjectively, I'd have to say that this one of the worst performances for
my 970 yet. Even at normal viewing distances, I was able to notice some
dithering in the Kid's face, the red cup and the yellow bucket. If I
have time later, I'll mess with the settings and see if I can come up
with anything better. For now, I'd be surprised if Epson didn't do
better on this shot.

Ron

Ron Parr · Jan 25, 2000

bob said:
Ron,
Which printer(s) do you have?

I said that I have a 970, but I guess this was ambiguous. I've lost track of all of the models. It's an HP DeskJet 970Cxi (same print heads as the new PhotoSmarts). I scanned the output on an Epson Perfection 636U scanner and compared the results with Mike Chaney's. The comparison may not be completely fair since we didn't use the same scanner.

Ron

Lee in the Z · Jan 25, 2000

Has anyone tried Kodak photo inkjet paper in the Photosmart? I have used it in my HP895Cxi and have found it much better than any of the HP papers I've tried, or some other generics. The images are superior, and dry much faster than on HP Paper. Also, it's really thick, and has the cool Kodak logo on the back just like real prints.

I just ordered a $149 Photosmart and it should arrive in the next couple of days.

Lee

Jim Toenail said:
You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

bob · Jan 26, 2000

That is what I thought you had. Unless you have the ACTUAL prints from the various prints in front of you , it is impossible to really judge the overall quality of the prints. Jump on the QVC deal...you won't regret it.

Ron Parr said:
bob said:

Ron,
Which printer(s) do you have?

Click to expand...

I said that I have a 970, but I guess this was ambiguous. I've lost
track of all of the models. It's an HP DeskJet 970Cxi (same print heads
as the new PhotoSmarts). I scanned the output on an Epson Perfection
636U scanner and compared the results with Mike Chaney's. The comparison
may not be completely fair since we didn't use the same scanner.

Ron

bob · Jan 26, 2000

Lee,

The only Kodak paper I have used in the old HP is #800 6298 Ink Jet Photo Paper. Was not impressed! I got an email last week from another old model owner who is very happy with ilford's Inkjet paper....says it is better than any HP paper. I am waiting on an order now. It is also cheaper at $25 for 50 sheets, and it comes in glossy or matte.

Lee in the Z said:
Lee

Jim Toenail said:

You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Click to expand...

Lee in the Z · Jan 26, 2000

Bob,

That is exactly the paper I use in my 895. Was it the Photosmart or another HP you tried it in that produced poor results? I found Ilford's site. They certainly provide a lot of detailed info about settings for optimizing with many printers, incl. the Photosmart. I'll get some and try it, too. Despite the gripes I've heard about price, I found the Photosmart paper to be pretty widely available. This site seems to have very good prices and has several different Photosmart items:
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/go.dll/-s/ffcpaper

They had the matte 8.5x11 20 sheets for $10.98 and $11.98 for glossy. It's nearly as inexpensive as the Ilford. The Kodak costs more than that!

Where did you buy the Ilford paper? That price seems pretty reasonable if it prints well and dries quickly.

bob said:
Lee in the Z said:

Lee

Jim Toenail said:

You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ron Parr · Jan 26, 2000

bob said:
That is what I thought you had. Unless you have the ACTUAL prints from
the various prints in front of you , it is impossible to really judge the
overall quality of the prints. Jump on the QVC deal...you won't regret it.

QVC deal???

Ron

Bob · Jan 26, 2000

In my first post...QVC is selling the old model for $99. Relacement cartridges cost $70 so I figure a spare for $30 is a pretty good deal.

Ron Parr said:
bob said:

That is what I thought you had. Unless you have the ACTUAL prints from
the various prints in front of you , it is impossible to really judge the
overall quality of the prints. Jump on the QVC deal...you won't regret it.

Click to expand...

QVC deal???

Ron

bob · Jan 26, 2000

Lee-

The printer is the old model Photosmart. The ilford paper was purchased from B&H Photo in NY. phone # is 800.947.7008.

Thanks for the source for HP paper (and cartridges) ...prices are very good. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised to see HP drop these papers soon.
Can't buy the matte any longer from HP Store

Lee in the Z said:
They had the matte 8.5x11 20 sheets for $10.98 and $11.98 for glossy.
It's nearly as inexpensive as the Ilford. The Kodak costs more than that!

Where did you buy the Ilford paper? That price seems pretty reasonable
if it prints well and dries quickly.

bob said:

Lee in the Z said:

Lee

Jim Toenail said:

You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jerrydf · Jan 29, 2000

I have had a PhotoSmart printer for over a year and have used six different brands of inkjet photo papers with it all with good to great results. I prefer the Epson glossy now. I think its a great photo printer.

Jim Toenail said:
You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Violin · Jan 29, 2000

I have used the Epson glossy paper in the photosmart, but I find the results (while not bad) are clearly inferior to the results you get with the HP photosmart paper. Is there some special setting you use to get the best result?

Jerry said:
Jim Toenail said:

You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Click to expand...

Jennifer · Jan 30, 2000

I don't know if this helps or not but... I spoke with a HP rep on the phone about not being able to find the paper anywhere. He told me that they have totally discontinued it, but there should be approx a 3 year supply still out there "somewhere".

And... I agree that HP is too expensive! Also, if they have discontinued it.. who are they competing with if they lower the price... They just know that there isn't much left to go around, and people really want it, so why lower the price? I am suprised they haven't raised the price!

Ron Parr said:
You're asking HP to stab its distributors in the back. This is a lot to
task of any company.

To convince me that HP is acting disreputably, you'd need to show me that
HP is selling the paper to their distributors for more now than in the
past. Even then, you'd need to take into account that with dwindling
demand, HP may no longer enjoy the same economies of scale that they once
did, leading to higher marginal costs.

Ron Parr

Jim Toenail said:

If you're talking about "legally" speaking, or "free market forces," or
does HP have a "right" to charge what it wants for its products, then
you'll get no argument from me. Of course, HP can do what it wants.
(Legally, HP can stop selling printer supplies and instead open donut
shops.)

But the fact is when I researched my photo printer purchase last summer,
I considered the cost of buying supplies for the printer. $4 dollars for
20-pictures seemed reasonable. $7 did not.

I also considered the HP "brand" as "trustworthy." I never suspected
that HP would stop selling the printer and stand idly by as retailers
stopped stocking supplies for it. You can't blame the retailers--why
should they stock supplies for a discontinued printer? HP, on the other
hand, should consider its good name as it charges my credit card 7
dollars for those 20-pieces of paper. Its name is now mud as far as I'm
concerned. "Trustworthy?" Give me a break!

Here's the long and short: Brands you can trust support the products they
sell. They don't say, "Hey, wow, no one else is selling these supplies
now, so it's not our fault that people are forced to buy them from us at
nearly twice what they used to pay."

Later, HP. Hello, Epson.

Dave Schambach said:

It seems to me that the real issue is the price that HP charged last
summer (for a consumer to buy directly from them). If the (HP) price
then was the same as the (HP) price now, then I don't see how you
can indict HP for "price gouging".

If your other vendors have dropped the supplies, then your complaint
should be with the other vendors. If HP has in fact raised their price
substantially since last summer (I doubt it) then you have a legitimate
complaint.

That's the way I see it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

bob · Jan 30, 2000

According to Jeniffer's post today HP has discontinued the paper made for the old model. I am testing the Ilford Inkjet paper now and feel the results are about equal to HP's new Premium Plus but not quite as good as the old paper. On most pictures you really can't tell much difference unless there is a lot of black, and then the old paper just seems look better.

Anyway, I like the Ilford paper in both glossy and matte and will use it if I can't find the original stuff.

If anyone has any info on who made the original paper for HP or finds a paper they really like, please post it or email me.

Thanks

Jim Toenail said:
Jerry said:

Jim Toenail said:

You buy the Photosmart printer for $149. You think, wow, great price for
a great printer, right? The only down side is the fact that it only
performs well with that special proprietary paper from HP. You muse, "Gee
I hope it's always available for a reasonable price. It should be.
Afterall, HP is a brand you can trust, right?"

A few months later very few outfits carry the Photosmart paper, and, in
its scarcity, it's now priced at a premium. So, here I am thinking, will
I buy an HP next time round? I seriously doubt it. From all I've read,
Epson and the others all make printers that work well with a variety of
papers, and those papers are all readily available. Me--I've got this
Edsel that only takes leaded gas, and no one seems to sell leaded gas any
more!
--
Jim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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