FZ cameras not "indoor cameras?" - NOT!!

[AO]

Yes, I do believe that Panasonic is watching this forum. Panasonic
Bob is a good example that they are following discussion on the
forums.

Bob Kozlarek made it clear that:

1) He is active on the foums on his own free time. He gets no incentive from Panasonic for doing it (and, as I understand, had to overcome some resistance and be subject to restrictions).

2) Panasonic Japan (the people who call the shots) and probably other branches as well do not consider a handful of enthusiasts on photo forums to be a target demographic.

I'm too tired to search right now but if you check his posts on Steve's Digicams you'll find exact quotes to that effect.

And yes, I believe that pressure from this forum just
might get them to upgrade the firmware.

Only if they are shown a correlation between the amount of bitching on the forum and the level of worldwide sales of Panasonic cameras. Can you?

I believe that you are the naive one.

Believes are wonderfull things. No proof is needed, no facts are required...

How do you think Minolta was pushed into releasing
several firmware upgrades beginning with their D7? It was not out
of the goodness of their heart. It was mainly because of pressure
and complaints from owners of their cameras.

Out of the total population of Panasonic digicam owners, what percentage have contacted Panasonic directly to express their displeasure with the cameras and to state that they will not be buying anything from Panasonic unless their concerns are addressed?

How many people worldwide have returned their Panasonic cameras because of their flaws?

The A1 has already
had its 2nd upgrade released. They are now very much aware of user
demands.

Different companies have different policies. Some release upgrades for free, others prefer to either introduce another model (FZ2) or sell an upgrade for 6000 Yen.

I'm expressing my opinion and have every right to do so - and you
have the choice not to read it.

Actualy, you have a privilege to do so on Phil's forum, not a right .

The fact is, most owners already know there is a problem, and I'm
not the only one who has pointed this out since the release of the
camera.

Most owners who are active on this forum were aware of the limitation before they bought the camera.

I bought it for outdoor
use exclusively, knowing full well that there were problems with
indoor shooting. But that doesn't mean that I should stop trying
to get Panasonic to do something about it.

Fair enough. But tell me this: How many people at Panasonic have you contacted directly about the issue? Have you sent any emails? Faxes? Snail-mail letters? Made any phone calls? Organized petitions? Picketed outside their headquarters? Went to photo stores and persuaded people not to buy Panasonic cameras? Started media campaings?

Is anyone at Panasonic (aside from Bob, who has very little clout in Panasonic and does not seem to share your convivtions) aware of your gripes? Or even of your existance?

 

[Tim Trzcinski]

I own a Minolta D7 and have had hands on experience with their firmware upgrades that fix their faults. Let's see, there was update 121 which improved focus speed (but then 2 of my CF cards no longer worked). Then I had to figure out how to go back to my previous firmware or get by with 1 CF card. Then update 122 came out 6 months later and made the camera similar to its original state (maybe 10 percent faster AF but I couldn't really tell). Then they charged $50 for update 200 which added some features to the camera which were cute but none of which I used. Update 200 was also said to "improve AF speed 50 percent". I borrowed the update from someone who also owned the camera so I didn't pay for it. If I had I would have been furious. The AF is worse than it was before and I have more trouble focussing in low light than the FZ-10.

I'll admit the FZ-10 could use improvement in the low light focus area (although I can work around it) but if the firmware upgrade is as effective as Minolta's generally have been I'm certainly not going to scream about making one available. If Panasonic wants to add features I'm looking for in a firmware upgrade then that would be fine but to mess with camera performance given my experience scares me.

P.S. I have also upgraded firmware in Toshiba and Olympus cameras with no notable improvement.

 

[GrahamL]

Barry,

Are you sure about the FZ2? My FZ1 used to go black but since the firmware upgrade it stays light until the shutter is pressed, so you can see perfectly well.

Perhaps Panasonic will upgrade the FZ10 firmware to do the same at some point...

Barry Kernerman wrote:

If your EVF or LCD goes totally black in low-light levels, you either
have a defective camera, or you're shooting in no-light levels.
And as far as it not being able to AF, well just put it in manual
focus.
I've been able to focus by candlelight.
If you're documenting "whats going on in the darkness around me",
than AF definately won't work, and the EVF/LCD will obviously be dark.

Oh please! So many people have reported this low light problem
that it is an unquestionable fact that it is a major design flaw of
the FZ1/2 and 10 cameras. I would say that if you are lucky enough
to have a camera where it's EVF never goes black, then you are one
of the very few lucky FZ10 owners. But I think you just don't want
to admit the problem to either yourself, or to us, because that is
an accepted problem with the camera.

 

[RC Bear]

I think for FZ1(upgrade verison) FZ2 and FZ10. Before you hit the shutter button under low light condition, the CCD will set itself to the highest ISO (400), so you can see what u are shooting. Once u hit the pre focus button, the LCD will darken to what u set you ISO to be..(the higher, the brighter)

But if you manually set your camera to ISO400, even when u press the Pre foucus button, the LCD still stay the same brightness.. of course, when u take the pic, it comes out at ISO 400

So, i think thats why some ppl say their LCD don't goes dark at pre-foucs because they are not aware they set the ISO to 400...

I try on my FZ2,... and that is what i resulted.

Derek

Are you sure about the FZ2? My FZ1 used to go black but since the
firmware upgrade it stays light until the shutter is pressed, so
you can see perfectly well.

Perhaps Panasonic will upgrade the FZ10 firmware to do the same at
some point...

Barry Kernerman wrote:

If your EVF or LCD goes totally black in low-light levels, you either
have a defective camera, or you're shooting in no-light levels.
And as far as it not being able to AF, well just put it in manual
focus.
I've been able to focus by candlelight.
If you're documenting "whats going on in the darkness around me",
than AF definately won't work, and the EVF/LCD will obviously be dark.

Oh please! So many people have reported this low light problem
that it is an unquestionable fact that it is a major design flaw of
the FZ1/2 and 10 cameras. I would say that if you are lucky enough
to have a camera where it's EVF never goes black, then you are one
of the very few lucky FZ10 owners. But I think you just don't want
to admit the problem to either yourself, or to us, because that is
an accepted problem with the camera.

 

[John_Reed]

When I posted this thread originally, it was to offer some evidence that the FZs could indeed produce some useable, fun photographic results in indoor light, and needn't be checked at the door as one enters a building. I wasn't even trying to stir up the old A1 vs. FZ10 arguments, but along came someone who did that. I don't think that comparing to the A1 isn't even meaningful - it's a camera in a higher price range, and it doesn't have the "long zoom" of the FZs. If it is capable of shooting a photo of a bat flying around in a cave at midnight, so be it, more power to it!

I think the really meaningful comparison comes when looking at the performance of all the other long zoomers one can buy - the Olympus C7XX cameras, the Kodak 6490, HP 645, Fuji 5000, Minolta Z1, etc. How does their "low-light" performance stack up? Why I raised this post is because I very often hear the question "Well, gee, I'm looking for a big zoom lens, but I hear the Panasonics don't hack it in low light conditions." To make this comparison, I include only my "Santa" shot from before:

http://www.usefilm.com/image/273003.html - "Santa" shot

Look at the shooting conditions under which this was taken: 200mm focal length, handheld, f2.8, 1/5 of a second. The subject, Santa, was so dimly lit that the shutter had to stay open for 200 milliseconds, and yet, his image is SHARP! And, while taking the shot, there was plenty of visibility for framing him in my EVF.

So here's the real comparison: If you ascribe to the theory that one shouldn't handhold a telephoto lens for any shutter speeds slower than 1/focal length, and many people do, NONE of the above listed cameras (except for the A1, not included in the comparison) could have taken that Santa shot at a shutter speed slower than 1/200 of a second, 40 TIMES faster than proper exposure would demand.

Of course, it's the OIS system coupled with the very fast, excellent Leica lens that makes all this possible, but at present, no one else offers anywhere near that combination for the price of the FZs. So the next time someone derides the "low light" capability of these FZs, just remember where the "low light" territory begins, (e.g., in my Santa case at shutter speeds below 1/200 of a second), and you'll find a territory OWNED by Panasonic (within its price range).
--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

 

[bobbyz]

I realized that after posting it.

Anyways, I did a test today morning with my old canon powershot s110 and fz-1. In low light, I tried to take a picture of salt shaker on my black dining table. With my old canon p&s, I could see the salt shaker on the LCD but with fz-1, I could barely discern its presence on the table. Using my old old SLR camera, I was able to see everything clear, it has the optical VF.

bobby

http://bobbyz.smugmug.com/gallery/52579/1/1805500

The FZ-10 does NOT do well indoors.

That's a pretty emphatic statement.
I'm just curious, what makes you such an expert on the FZ-10.
Perhaps you meant to say "I do not do well indoors with the FZ-10".

Speaking for myself, I am well aware of some of this cameras
shortcomings,
and I try to work around them, and sometimes very successfully.
I have taken, what I feel, are some very good indoor shots.
I've also taken some horrible shots. Now I know there are some
on this forum that consider anything less than 100 percent as
unacceptable,
but after owning 100's of cameras in my lifetime, I KNOW that no
camera is perfect. That's why at any given time, I will own several
cameras. There is no one camera perfect for all situations.

Jim

--
Bobby

http://bobbyz.smugmug.com

--
Bobby

http://bobbyz.smugmug.com

 

[AO]

Anyways, I did a test today morning with my old canon powershot
s110 and fz-1. In low light, I tried to take a picture of salt
shaker on my black dining table. With my old canon p&s, I could see
the salt shaker on the LCD but with fz-1, I could barely discern
its presence on the table.

The FZ2 upgrade should help.

 

[bobbyz]

Forgot to metion that I have the fz-1 with upgraded fw.

Anyways, I did a test today morning with my old canon powershot
s110 and fz-1. In low light, I tried to take a picture of salt
shaker on my black dining table. With my old canon p&s, I could see
the salt shaker on the LCD but with fz-1, I could barely discern
its presence on the table.

The FZ2 upgrade should help.

--
Bobby

http://bobbyz.smugmug.com

 

[AO]

Forgot to metion that I have the fz-1 with upgraded fw.

Then you're stuck with aftermarket solutions.

Suggestions:
1. Laser pointer (with a pattern)
2. IR flashlight

 

[Barry Kernerman]

Tim. I guess I've had better luck than you with their updates. I had every D7 upgrade installed, and noticed improvement with all of them. The upgrade they charged for produced noticably faster and better results from the camera and I feel was well worth the cost.

It's true though that everytime there is an upgrade, some people have complained that their camera was better before they upgraded. But for the most part, the upgrades did what they were supposed to do - at least in my D7 they did. I am basing this upon posts on the forum, and also from the experiences of several D7 owners that I personally know, - all of whom were satisfied with the upgrades and experienced no problems whatsoever after installing them.

On the other hand, although they have offered 2 upgrades for the A1 so far, there are some complaints about the most recent one that they just released, and until that one is fixed I personally will not install it in my camera.

Their Viewer software updates for the MAC did not always work well before they released the current one. Until I got the version that came with my A1 I was unable to install the software on my computer. This was the case for many MAC owners until this latest version was released.

Why some firmware upgrades work in some cameras and not in others, I have no idea. But I personally have not had any bad experiences with any firmware upgrades they have released.

What your experiences have to do with Panasonic, I don't know. Perhaps you're "gun-shy" about the idea of upgrades because your experiences with them have not been good.

One thing I've never done is to install any firmware upgrade myself. Instead, I take the camera to Minolta's Service Dept. and have them install it and then test the camera out for me. They are always ready to do that at no charge, and in that way they are put in the position of being responsible if anything ever went wrong because of it.
Barry

I own a Minolta D7 and have had hands on experience with their
firmware upgrades that fix their faults. Let's see, there was
update 121 which improved focus speed (but then 2 of my CF cards no
longer worked). Then I had to figure out how to go back to my
previous firmware or get by with 1 CF card. Then update 122 came
out 6 months later and made the camera similar to its original
state (maybe 10 percent faster AF but I couldn't really tell). Then
they charged $50 for update 200 which added some features to the
camera which were cute but none of which I used. Update 200 was
also said to "improve AF speed 50 percent". I borrowed the update
from someone who also owned the camera so I didn't pay for it. If I
had I would have been furious. The AF is worse than it was before
and I have more trouble focussing in low light than the FZ-10.
I'll admit the FZ-10 could use improvement in the low light focus
area (although I can work around it) but if the firmware upgrade is
as effective as Minolta's generally have been I'm certainly not
going to scream about making one available. If Panasonic wants to
add features I'm looking for in a firmware upgrade then that would
be fine but to mess with camera performance given my experience
scares me.

P.S. I have also upgraded firmware in Toshiba and Olympus cameras
with no notable improvement.

 

[Tim Trzcinski]

I've read a lot of complaints about the D7 upgrades on the Minolta forums and tested 3 different upgraded cameras myself. Hope springs eternal when the idea of putting a CF card inside your camera will make it a better one. I wanted to believe it was better after I installed the upgrade but over the course of a few weeks my amount of misfocussed AF photos increased. Sorry but 80 percent of product owners would believe their product improved if they installed a blank update. My Minolta D7 was a good camera with idiosyncracies. My D7ug was a good camera with the same (I use was because it's a D7 with no upgrade again now). AF was slightly faster but quite a bit more inaccurate. I don't think having Minolta install it would have made any difference because all the added features worked fine just not the performance improvements. I guess it just depends on the kind of shooting you do.

I think there's a give and take when a manufacturer updates firmware for performance enhancement. In all but one of Minolta's updates I noticed something positive but I also noticed something negative.

I guess everyone out there that is deeply disturbed by the FZ-10 low light performance should scream. If you're not disturbed, however, don't rule out the possibility that a firmware update may decrease performance in another area.

P.S. "Gun-shy" is not a term anyone around me uses to describe me (LOL). I've changed firmware in my D7 at least a dozen times. I could actually change the firmware to match the type of shooting I was doing. I don't think the typical user would want to try this, though. Once you change the firmware you generallly want to be able to stick with it.

 

[Barry Kernerman]

I've read a lot of complaints about the D7 upgrades on the Minolta
forums and tested 3 different upgraded cameras myself. Hope springs
eternal when the idea of putting a CF card inside your camera will
make it a better one. I wanted to believe it was better after I
installed the upgrade but over the course of a few weeks my amount
of misfocussed AF photos increased. Sorry but 80 percent of product
owners would believe their product improved if they installed a
blank update. My Minolta D7 was a good camera with idiosyncracies.
My D7ug was a good camera with the same (I use was because it's a
D7 with no upgrade again now). AF was slightly faster but quite a
bit more inaccurate. I don't think having Minolta install it would
have made any difference because all the added features worked fine
just not the performance improvements. I guess it just depends on
the kind of shooting you do.

It's possible that there's a "placebo" affect pertaining to certain camera upgrades. But I'm sure any knowledgable photographer would spot that pretty quickly. That's something I've never thought about though, and find that theory rather intriguing. I suppose they could fool some of the people some of the time......! But I would think that's a pretty risky thing to do, and tough to get away with.

I think there's a give and take when a manufacturer updates
firmware for performance enhancement. In all but one of Minolta's
updates I noticed something positive but I also noticed something
negative.

What you're saying is true. Many have found a negative result of some sort while something else was improved. Luckily, I didn't experience that problem with my D7, and on the whole it was a better camera, especially after the UG upgrade, where I noticed no negatives at all, and it was a considerably better camera.

However it did happen when Nikon once upgraded my 990 and it kicked off some other problems. In that case, when I found I had other problems resulting from the upgrade installation, they re-installed it a second time and everything was okay.

I guess everyone out there that is deeply disturbed by the FZ-10
low light performance should scream. If you're not disturbed,
however, don't rule out the possibility that a firmware update may
decrease performance in another area.

I suppose that's the gamble one must be prepared to take with any upgrade. Perhaps it might turn out to be a downgrade instead!

P.S. "Gun-shy" is not a term anyone around me uses to describe me
(LOL). I've changed firmware in my D7 at least a dozen times. I
could actually change the firmware to match the type of shooting I
was doing. I don't think the typical user would want to try this,
though. Once you change the firmware you generallly want to be able
to stick with it.

Well I haven't got the guts to do an upgrade myself. I simply refuse to touch the camera - even with very clear instructions, and Minolta has always been very nice about doing it for me.

But I'm curious to know how you can do that and adapt firmware to the type of shooting you will do. Are you actually able to "hack" into the firmware software? I don't know how else you could do that - or even how you could do that. In what ways could you manipulate the firmware to your needs? I find that a really facinating possibility - I just can't understand how it is possible to actually do.
Barry

 

[Tim Trzcinski]

I'm afraid that my firmware explanation wasn't specific enough. There are 6 firmware selections that I know of for the D7, 021,121,122,123,200, and 201. 200 has faster AF at 200mm (without sacrificing accuracy), 122 or 123 is more accurate (not faster) especially in low light,122 is better for IR,etc. I don't have the ability to actually hack into the firmware (wish I did). I couldn't even offer an explanation of why the firmware works the way it does. My conclusions are based on trial and error. But that has left me with some knowledge of which firmware revision will yield the best results for the type of shooting I'm doing. I would never recommend this as I believe changing the firmware frequently can't be good for the camera. Eventually you're going to make a mistake.

 

[Fritz17383]

The conditions I am describing are really not dark at all. It's
not the subject I care about. I'm only trying to describe light
levels where the camera completely fails, but where others do not.
To make it simpler, the point at which the EVF goes black and the
AF ceases to operate is the light level point I am trying to
describe. That light level is actually not very low in this
camera. Far lower than it should be. I am not talking about shots
taken with flash here either, as many people do not like to use
flash. But in the case of the FZ10, even the flash will not work
without forcing it, and the results will neither framed, and
probably not focused.
Barry

Barry,

What the dickens are you talking about, and why do people even listen to you? You actually had me worried until I went and tried it myself. You either need to have your eyes examined, or your camera.

I took my new FZ-10 (K35SS03802) to a darkened room, illuminated by light coming from a streetlight, through curtains in a neighboring room. I pointed it into the dark corner and saw the scene and was able to frame it. THE EVF DID NOT BLACK OUT. I half pressed the shutter button and the camera focussed and turned on the shake warning indicator. I finished taking the picture and the exposure was f/2.8 1/4 second at ISO 200. This is the absolute minimum exposure in "P" mode, and it worked fine.

Here is the shot after I cleaned it up in Photoshop. It's uninteresting, noisy, and underexposed. But it's focused, and the Mega-OIS gave me a usable picture despite the lack of light.



The original right out of the camera can be found here:
http://Peacham.homeip.net/images/P1010074.jpg
--
Fritz (DMC-FZ1O, 2 x C-21OO, B-3OO, FL-4O, and a DiMAGE Xi up my sleeve)

 

[Barry Kernerman]

Sorry Tim, but I'm rather slow when it comes to understanding these things, and I really would like to be sure I follow what you mean.

Am I correct in saying that any one has these firmware selection choices that you've listed of 021,121,122,123 and 200 can be made from within the camera itself by bringing up certain hidden Menus while pressing a combination of buttons on the camera? If so, what does one have to do to see these Menus?

I understand that one might be playing on dangerous ground, and I'm certainly not going to try it (I'm certainly the "gun-shy" type) - but I am interested in knowing the procedure. I find it amazing that these kind of custom changes can actually be made.

I recall reading recently of someone who said he could change certain things (I believe he was referring to flash control) but didn't pay much attention to it at the time. Perhaps it was you, I don't remember.
Thanks, Barry

I'm afraid that my firmware explanation wasn't specific enough.
There are 6 firmware selections that I know of for the D7,
021,121,122,123,200, and 201. 200 has faster AF at 200mm (without
sacrificing accuracy), 122 or 123 is more accurate (not faster)
especially in low light,122 is better for IR,etc. I don't have the
ability to actually hack into the firmware (wish I did). I couldn't
even offer an explanation of why the firmware works the way it
does. My conclusions are based on trial and error. But that has
left me with some knowledge of which firmware revision will yield
the best results for the type of shooting I'm doing. I would never
recommend this as I believe changing the firmware frequently can't
be good for the camera. Eventually you're going to make a mistake.

 

[james morgan135248]

Pardon my intrusion I thought I was in PANASONIC SITE i will go and try browser again ttfn.
--
jasm

 

[Barry Kernerman]

James.

I think this discussion with Tim applies to ANY digital camera. If you think my questions don't pertain to the FZ10 as well, you are totally missing the point of my questions for Tim. If this manipulation of Minolta firmware can be done, then it is probably possible to do it with other cameras including the FZ10 as well.

We have someone here who appears to know quite a bit about firmware - a subject in which I am personally very interested in learning something about. I really don't care which camera he's talking about. I'm here to learn, and he's just taught me some interesting things I never knew about.

If you are not interested, then I would suggest that you simply pass, and don't waste your time reading these messages.
Barry

Pardon my intrusion I thought I was in PANASONIC SITE i will go and
try browser again ttfn.
--
jasm

 

[Tim Trzcinski]

Excuse me if my terminology isn't exactly right but it works something like this (it was discussed frequently in the Minolta forum about the time firmware version 200 was released). Each revision has a ram.bin file and a dsc.app file. It was discovered by someone in the forum that if you took the dsc.app file from any version of the firmware and couple it on a small CF card with the ram.bin file from the 021 Japanese version then you could change the firmware in the camera to any firmware version you wanted. Examples: 123 dsc.app+021 Japanese ram.bin=version 123 in camera. 121 dsc.app+021j ram.bin=121, etc. They did say, however, that if you wanted to change to one of the upgrade versions (200,201) you had to use the ram.bin file that came with the upgrade (not the 021 Japanese ram.bin file). There were people that were upgrading and then switching back if they had problems with focus, etc.

I changed back and forth quite a few times before I felt it might be getting risky. I have individual CF cards with the 021,121,123,and 200 firmware on them.

Minolta did not volunteer this information (I was thankful to the individual in the forum who figured it out). If Panasonic were to offer a firmware upgrade for performance enhancement I would want to have the option to switch back if I didn't like it.

 

[Ramblin]

That is very cool to know. With the Panasonic FZ1 update, no one has the original firmware, so no going back. It may not work with the Panasonic anyway.

Excuse me if my terminology isn't exactly right but it works
something like this (it was discussed frequently in the Minolta
forum about the time firmware version 200 was released). Each
revision has a ram.bin file and a dsc.app file. It was discovered
by someone in the forum that if you took the dsc.app file from any
version of the firmware and couple it on a small CF card with the
ram.bin file from the 021 Japanese version then you could change
the firmware in the camera to any firmware version you wanted.
Examples: 123 dsc.app+021 Japanese ram.bin=version 123 in camera.
121 dsc.app+021j ram.bin=121, etc. They did say, however, that if
you wanted to change to one of the upgrade versions (200,201) you
had to use the ram.bin file that came with the upgrade (not the 021
Japanese ram.bin file). There were people that were upgrading and
then switching back if they had problems with focus, etc.
I changed back and forth quite a few times before I felt it might
be getting risky. I have individual CF cards with the
021,121,123,and 200 firmware on them.
Minolta did not volunteer this information (I was thankful to the
individual in the forum who figured it out). If Panasonic were to
offer a firmware upgrade for performance enhancement I would want
to have the option to switch back if I didn't like it.

--
Olympus C5050, Panasonic FZ1, FZ10K, Oly Tcon 1.7
http://www.pbase.com/ramblin_mo/galleries

 

[Barry Kernerman]

Tim. Thanks for your detailed explanation. It finally managed to penetrate my thick skull. It's much too risky a procedure for my blood, that's for sure!

Actually, the reason I thought you were referring to hidden menus was that someone had mentioned that these did exist on the A1 and other cameras.

I know they do exist on the Pentax 550 (not as hidden menus though). It turned out that certain "new features" of its replacement 555 were available all along in the 550 (but not revealed by Pentax), and were discovered by accident by a few people. These features were enabled by pressing certain combinations of buttons.

I can't remember now what the features were, but 550 owners were (and still are) up in arms at Pentax about it, accusing them of cheating 550 owners by replacing their camera with a new model within ONLY 4 or 5 months, - trying to get them to upgrade to a new camera to get fixes, and also getting access to certain features that they already had, but didn't know about.

The noise issue was also addressed in the new, almost identical Pentax 555 camera, which further angered 550 owners who felt they were due a firmware fix from Pentax to address that problem - which they had vigorously complained about from day one.

As a result, 550 owners are circulating a petition to Pentax right now, and many people have sworn never to buy another Pentax product again, unless they get that upgrade. In the end, it will cost Pentax dearly, not only in many lost customers, but even moreso from a negative Public Relations point of view.

Perhaps some FZ10 owners will take note, and realize that they will get absolutely NOTHING from Panasonic in the way of camera support, unless they raise hell and insist upon it.

Anyway, thanks for being patient and clarifying my questions for me. It's much appreciated and was very informative - for me anyway.
Barry

Excuse me if my terminology isn't exactly right but it works
something like this (it was discussed frequently in the Minolta
forum about the time firmware version 200 was released). Each
revision has a ram.bin file and a dsc.app file. It was discovered
by someone in the forum that if you took the dsc.app file from any
version of the firmware and couple it on a small CF card with the
ram.bin file from the 021 Japanese version then you could change
the firmware in the camera to any firmware version you wanted.
Examples: 123 dsc.app+021 Japanese ram.bin=version 123 in camera.
121 dsc.app+021j ram.bin=121, etc. They did say, however, that if
you wanted to change to one of the upgrade versions (200,201) you
had to use the ram.bin file that came with the upgrade (not the 021
Japanese ram.bin file). There were people that were upgrading and
then switching back if they had problems with focus, etc.
I changed back and forth quite a few times before I felt it might
be getting risky. I have individual CF cards with the
021,121,123,and 200 firmware on them.
Minolta did not volunteer this information (I was thankful to the
individual in the forum who figured it out). If Panasonic were to
offer a firmware upgrade for performance enhancement I would want
to have the option to switch back if I didn't like it.