Why I opted against the Sony a7xii (it's all about Metabones)

[jlg84]

I drove down to Dunedin today, all set to buy a Sony Alpha a7ii with Metabones adaptor for Canon EF lenses. The camera appeared to be great--excellent size, fit my (relatively small) hands well, nice features, etc etc--and with a Sony E lens attached it focused quickly, and was nice and handy. But when I attached the Metabones IV adaptor (which we discerned had the latest firmware) my EF lenses were extremely slow to focus, almost to the point of being completely unusable. Since my EF lenses are slightly old, we tried some of their brand-new lenses just to see if it made a difference, and if anything it was actually worse. While I was willing to put up with somewhat slower performance than I can get with my Canon 5DmkII, I was not willing to go quite this far, so I ended up leaving with my money still in my pocket.

I think I am now in the position of waiting for Canon to come out with a comparable product, and a way to use my existing lenses. In the meantime, I will bring my Canon body and lenses with me to South America next month, together with my brand-new Sony RX100m3 (which I love so far).

 

[mike105105]

Was the firmware on the body up to date? PDAF with adapted lenses wasn't enabled before a certain FW ver.

Mike

 

[jaybr]

It sounds like you had AF-S and/or CDAF set in the camera.

AF-C with PDAF gives optimum performance with Metabones adapted lenses.

I get almost native AF speeds with these settings.

J

 

[jlg84]

I thought of that, too, and according to what we could see on the camera, it had the latest firmware. Also, I tried several focus settings on the camera, some were not available for my lenses, and others resulted in very slow focusing.

 

[jaybr]

I thought of that, too, and according to what we could see on the camera, it had the latest firmware. Also, I tried several focus settings on the camera, some were not available for my lenses, and others resulted in very slow focusing.

The a7ii firmware has to be 3.10 or later (check in camera menu), and the Metabones IV adapter firmware 0.47 or later (can only check via Metabones firmware update app).

The Lens also has to be compatible with the Metabones IV adapter:

http://briansmith.com/sony-a7rii-canon-ef-smart-adapter-tests/

You really should have done your homework before visiting the camera store.

If you did, you would have been aware of the specific requirements, settings and limitations of using adapted lenses on the a7x platform.

J

 

[lightgrabber]

I wish I could remember the details better to be of more help but, a few months ago I upgraded from a canon 5DMKII to the A7RII.

I already owned an a6000 and the Mark IV Metabones adapter for using my Canon lenses with that, but had found AF was useless and I had to do MF all the time. The salesman had assured me that I'd get auto focusing with the new A7RII and my adapter and demonstrated with his A7RII and Metabones IV adapter but, being wary about spending all that money and still not getting acceptable AF, I brought my lenses and my adapter into the store to try before purchasing. Sure enough when we tried my equipment with the A7RII we got a lot of hunting and unreliable focus. After more poking around it turned out that there are two versions of the Meta IV, MARK IV (MB_EF-E-BT4) and MARK IV (MB_EF-E-BM4) .

The BT4 focuses fairly well on the A7RII and the BM4 not really well at all. In my case the salesman made me a deal which included trading in my BM4 for a new BT4 when I purchased the new camera.

Not sure if something similar could be what happened in your case, or not, but thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I should add that, although I find the AF with the BT4 adapter is reasonably satisfactory, for me, I did discover once I had it out in the field that it only focuses well when using the central focal point. If I try to set my focus point off to the side the AF becomes unreliable once again.

 

[jlg84]

Thanks, but I did quite a lot of homework, which is how I knew to ask about the firmware. Perhaps I am just a bit too demanding, but even with what was meant to be the latest firmware on both the camera and the Metabones, I did not find the combo to work, even though the lenses I have are mostly on the list from Brian Smith.

 

[lightgrabber]

Don't mean to belabour the point, and certainly not trying to talk you into the A7II, but I'm just wondering...is the firmware the same as the adapter version? My impression was that even with the latest firmware the BM4 version of the adapter wouldn't work. Honestly, I'm not sure what the difference is between BM4 and BT4 but my impression was that it wasn't something that could be changed with a firmware update.

 

[jlg84]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

 

[Jay A]

Maybe it's just bad luck or something but I have rented several Metabones adapters and several lenses and not once have I had a good experience. I have had anything from very slow focusing, to no focusing at all, to camera lockups, to different exposures resulting wide open to stopped down.

Again, maybe it's just some bad luck on my part, but I totally gave up on the Metabones idea and only use lenses in FE mount be they Sony or Zeiss.

 

[jaybr]

The difference is a slightly larger "hole" and the addition of "anti-reflective flocking":

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briansmith.com

Aside from this, there is no difference between the two adapters if they are both running the same firmware versions.

If anyone is in doubt, can I suggest contacting Metabones to confirm the difference.

J

 

[Rol Lei Nut]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

I'm quite satisfied with how my Canon lenses work on a MB IV T + A7RII. But then I also rarely take pictures of bells & whistles...

 

[vett93]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

I'm quite satisfied with how my Canon lenses work on a MB IV T + A7RII. But then I also rarely take pictures of bells & whistles...

Show us some BIF images with your Canon 400 F5.6.

 

[James54]

I am not trying to talk you into the a7 series either, but I have shot weddings professionally with canons since the 10d and have started using a7ii's. At first along side the 5diii's but now the canon stays in the car as a backup. I use the metabones with the sigma 50mm 1.4 (old version) which never worked on the canon 5d, 5dii or the 5diii but it works perfectly on the a7ii. Super accurate and quick enough that I never miss a moment. I also use the Sigma 85mm 1.4, again works amazing, at least 98% hit rate and fast focusing. Also the Canon 50mm 1.2, Canon 135mm f2 and the Sigma 35mm 1.4 art. With the 5diii I would always be concerned that I was missing moments because of bad focusing, it really was and still is a hit and miss situation, even with the 24-70 f2.8 ii

I am hanging out for Sony to come out with a new, bit bigger body with dual card slots, I really am having so much fun with these cameras and I love the images that are produced.

Cheers

James

 

[Rol Lei Nut]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

I'm quite satisfied with how my Canon lenses work on a MB IV T + A7RII. But then I also rarely take pictures of bells & whistles...

Show us some BIF images with your Canon 400 F5.6.

I didn't realize that BIF was the only thing a 400mm lens is good for...

Anyway, it would be perfectly capable of doing that as well, unless one expects technology to do all the thinking & work.

 

[lhkjacky]

Traditional DSLR lens are design for using dedicated PDAF module.
They will never AF great on mirrorless body, mirrorless body use hybrid AF (OSPDAF + CDAF), traditional lens does not preform well with CDAF.

If traditional lens can work well with E-mount camera, why Sony don't reuse their A-mount lens design? Sony has redesign all their E-mount lens, with new focus mechanism & focus motor & fly-by-wire focus ring to get good AF speed for hybrid AF.
CDAF require the lens to move forth & back at high frequency, traditional DSLR lens cannot do that.

All native E-mount lens are design to have small & light focus group, focus by wire, floating inside the lens with almost no friction and control by Linear Electromagnetic Motor.

Sigma CEO also confirmed that in the interview, if they want to make lens for mirrorless, they have to redesign all their lens and use another type of AF motor.

 

[lhkjacky]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

You should thanks god already, you can still use your Canon lens in a Sony camera body with AF. Sony mirrorless camera AF are not design for the old design Canon lens.

You are changing a new camera system, and you still expect you can use all your current lens with native AF performance ? It is a unrealistic hope / dream. ;-)

Everyone who have change system before, know that you need to replace all your lens or accept for the poorer focus.

..

At the moment, Sony are still expanding their share in the camera market, therefore they let you to use the Canon lens, because they want more people jump into their system.

Once they gain enough share, and they will force people to buy their native E-mount lens, they will change the protocol and make all your metabone adapter stop working. Sony is a company only focus on profit, they won't let you keep using your canon lens in a Sony camera forever.

Just like a printer company will find every way to stop people using third party ink.

 

[lightgrabber]

Thanks, but it was definitely (or it was supposed to be...) a BT-IV. And I would not be happy with a new camera that would not allow me to use the bells and whistles with my lenses. I think I will learn to be happy with my situation, and just wait for the perfect camera to come along. Hopefully that will happen at Photokina...

I'll keep my fingers crossed for that to happen. I had other reasons to switch to the slightly smaller Sony, from the larger Canon 5D too so, even with less than the perfect focusing situation, it was worth it to me. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't appreciate an improved AF function as well.

 

[brick33308]

Sony is a company only focus on profit, they won't let you keep using your canon lens in a Sony camera forever.

you'd be hard pressed to identify many companies who don't have that focus

 

[Dan_168]

I drove down to Dunedin today, all set to buy a Sony Alpha a7ii with Metabones adaptor for Canon EF lenses. The camera appeared to be great--excellent size, fit my (relatively small) hands well, nice features, etc etc--and with a Sony E lens attached it focused quickly, and was nice and handy. But when I attached the Metabones IV adaptor (which we discerned had the latest firmware) my EF lenses were extremely slow to focus, almost to the point of being completely unusable. Since my EF lenses are slightly old, we tried some of their brand-new lenses just to see if it made a difference, and if anything it was actually worse. While I was willing to put up with somewhat slower performance than I can get with my Canon 5DmkII, I was not willing to go quite this far, so I ended up leaving with my money still in my pocket.

I think I am now in the position of waiting for Canon to come out with a comparable product, and a way to use my existing lenses. In the meantime, I will bring my Canon body and lenses with me to South America next month, together with my brand-new Sony RX100m3 (which I love so far).

My experience on the Metabones IV + A7R II is quite positive.

I use my DSLR lenses such as TSE 17. TSE 24 II, Sigma 35, Zeiss ZE, 85L II, 135L and 70-200 F2.8 IS II Tamrom 150-600 on my A7R II quite a bit and it always works nicely, I won't say they all focus as fast as those on my 1D4 and 1Ds3 and 1Ds2, but for sure perfectly "useable" for everything I shoot except for airshow and fast action like that, actually in some case, I would even say it focus faster with the Sony, such as the 85L II, I found it focus actually faster on A7R ii, it actually feels like it hunts a little less on the A7R II then the 1Ds3, it focus slow on both but less back and forth hunting on the Sony, accuracy wise is great on both bodies even wide open. so I am perfectly happy with this adapter, it gives new life to all my Canon lenses, actually I am so satisfied with the adapter and don't even have any desire to buy any Sony lenses at the moment, 85 GM is the first and my only Sony lens.

One thing I found about the Metabones is if you move your focus point from something very close to very far or the other way around, it will take forever for the camera find it, so in those cases, I just rotate the focus ring a little manually just so let the focus distance to get " in the ball park" then the AF will take over and work perfectly. I also apply te same method in all my DSLR so for me it's just a second nature not feeling like I have to something "extra" on the Sony.