XPRO1 too slow AF, sell now and buy again next year?

[ZZ9]

i bought 1 month ago a XPRO 1, i wanted use for my reportage work (i m a freelance photojournalist), i already claimed at beginning how slow was AF with both lens, but after i upgraded the firmware i saw some improvment (big on 18mm and small on 35mm to be precise)

first i must admit this: the IQ is stunning, it blow away my "old" GH2 and also my 5DMII, in all situations, low light especially , noise is 1 stop and more lower then 5D MII, 2-3 stop lower then GH2

this is my question: the 35mm is very slow lens, impossible to do any kind of reportage work with people especially in low light, last week i did some night test, also in a scene with a big light in the middle where a very slow lens like panasonic 20mm 1.7 coupled with my GH2 focus something like 10 times faster

its possible that a "easy" shot like this take 2 second to lock focus?? it drive me crazy ....

xpro1 adn 35mm 1.4,

this is just a test, shot its just for test (to be truth its horrible)))) but if the camera need 2 second to lock focus on a big light like this where also a Point and shot its much faster..well its a problem





just for info, other shots with similar light were impossible for fuji to be focused...it hunted for 3 seconds then it shoot but all out of focus ...

i have seen very interesting lens roadmap, pity the 23mm 1.4 will be released next year (march , april??))

so my idea is this: sell all now ,2 lens 18mm and the 35mm 1.4 and the XPRO1 (impossible to work,i ma photojournalist i need to come back home with the job done if i spend 2 months travelling in rural china or tibet or such remotes area...i cant miss shots...

then next year test the 23mm 1.4 and the zoom 18-55mm, if its slow as 35mm well bye bye fuji forever, if its at least fast as the 18mm (slow but decent) well i can buy again the XPRO1 or XPRO2 with just the 23mm

or better i keep the XPRO1 untill zoom will be released and then wait again the 23mm before decide all ?

thanx for all advice

 

[mr moonlight]

Perhaps your issue with night shots is how you focus. The camera constantly adjusts to properly expose a scene. If you place the focus box on a bright light in a night scene, it will most likely just see a blown out region with no contrast and not achieve focus. I had this issue when I attempted to recreate Steve Huffs focusing test on a lens cap. He used the focus assist beam that blew out any contrast on the lens cap and couldn't achieve focus. I did the same test with the same settings without the focus assist beam and the camera focused fine. It focused fine in even lower light. In your image, I would have focused a meter or two away from the flame.

Hope this helps.

 

[wilburpan]

so my idea is this: sell all now ,2 lens 18mm and the 35mm 1.4 and the XPRO1 (impossible to work,i ma photojournalist i need to come back home with the job done if i spend 2 months travelling in rural china or tibet or such remotes area...i cant miss shots...

First, on the photo you posted: based on my experience with the X-Pro 1 so far, if I were trying to get that shot, I would have focused on a face in the crowd and recomposed the framing to get the shot you posted. I don't think that the AF of the X-Pro 1 will work well if the flare is the target.

I'll be upfront and say that I'm not a photojournalist, so my definition of "too slow" will probably be different from your definition. But I can say that I'll be traveling to China for a once in a lifetime family trip this summer, and that I'm confident enough in the X-Pro 1 that it's going to be the only camera I'm bringing along.

My personal feeling is that how you feel about the X-Pro 1 at some level is a reflection of how you feel about missed shots. I've missed some shots with my X-Pro 1 because of AF speed, back focus, etc. But I can't recall or regret any of the shots that I missed, mainly because I'm really happy with the shots that I do get. I also know that there are some who will remember a missed shot forever, which is fine. In that case, you probably will be happier with a DSLR.

 

[baobob]

I fully agree with the tip

Another tip in such a situation is to use the DOF preview forcing the camera to adjust the aperture to the choosen value and keeping it avoiding this permanent adaptation then no lag time

I shot in such conditiond without any problem

In fact you get excatly the same lag outside sunny weather with very contarsty scene at least one second lag
Can be cured by my tip
--
Good judgment comes from experience
Experience comes from bad judgment

 

[AndyGordon]

Not anywhere as much light, but focussed from memory on either the guy nearest the flame or the flame itself. took quite a few with the X Pro 1 and X100 - no issues with either





focussed on faces lit by firework light only - again no problem





Focussed on the fireworks





--

Fuji X Pro 1, Fuji X100 and Panny GX1 + Mac and more years with film than I care to remember

 

[Lodro Rigdzin]

I do a lot of reportage style work with the x-pro: I have no issues with the focus for this type of work. Hard to say how it is going with the OP, since I don't know how he shoots at all.

and also a question that keeps haunting me: what does "missing shots" mean exactly? I wait for the right shot, sometimes for a considerable time and I never miss shots because of equipment but always because of my own stupidity or absent mindedness or because of not being in the flow of shooting the right way.

the way other people describe "missing" shots, it's like a train one fails to catch.

 

[ZZ9]

hello i didnt understand, what you mean exacly (in practice) to do with XPRO to force camera to adjust the aperture?

I fully agree with the tip

Another tip in such a situation is to use the DOF preview forcing the camera to adjust the aperture to the choosen value and keeping it avoiding this permanent adaptation then no lag time

I shot in such conditiond without any problem

In fact you get excatly the same lag outside sunny weather with very contarsty scene at least one second lag
Can be cured by my tip
--
Good judgment comes from experience
Experience comes from bad judgment

 

[ZZ9]

how much camera needed for lock focus? 1 second? 2 second?

a standard mirrorless (i.e. a entry level m43 or samsung) can do very fast on such scene,maybe 1/5 sec

 

[brudy]

So you've never stumbled on a great photo moment where you couldn't get your gear together in time? I just don't believe it. Example - a bike comes around the corner and a tough looking guy has some hilarious looking little dog in a front basket. And it's a girls bike. Like that and you're already looking at his back. That kinda stuff just happens. I've definitely missed some shots, with all kinds of cameras. Sometimes it's my fault, but sometimes it is the gears fault. On the x100 slow af and no distance scale on the lens can make those split second shots even tougher to get.

I do a lot of reportage style work with the x-pro: I have no issues with the focus for this type of work. Hard to say how it is going with the OP, since I don't know how he shoots at all.

and also a question that keeps haunting me: what does "missing shots" mean exactly? I wait for the right shot, sometimes for a considerable time and I never miss shots because of equipment but always because of my own stupidity or absent mindedness or because of not being in the flow of shooting the right way.

the way other people describe "missing" shots, it's like a train one fails to catch.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brudy

 

[ZZ9]

a simple shoot done years ago with my old GH1 and 7-14mm

i do a lot of religious processions, people usually move toward you, so you need to point and camera must lock focus and shoot in maybe 1/4 sec, just in next "moment" person is gone and bye bye

35mm is too slow, and this is not action photography and even its not done with a nikon D4 , just a 3 years old mirrorless...

second photo with a GH2 ,same problem as above...persons who move you have just a part of second for frame and catch photo, if not bye bye subject is already gone , and focus must be precise

i dont say i cant at all with XPRO1, just 80% of this shot will be missed using AF and worse...after you miss 2-3-4 shots...i start to become nervous...

 

[boinkphoto]

I think "slow" isn't quite the right word. It's true when you struggle with it that it can slow you down, but the issue is "difficulty in focusing", not really general "slowness".

That is, if it focuses it focuses very quickly (at least in my experience), however sometimes it will choose not to focus. When it does it can be painful trying to get it to lock, which certainly in a time sensitive situation can blow your shot.

I suppose some might frame this as a failing on the photographer rather than the camera. At some level I can see that as being true, but it does seem like the AF on the X-Pro1 is particularly difficult. I would say more difficult than it should be and therefor "flawed".

That's not to say you can't learn to work around it, apparently some have found consistent methods to work around it, but I would argue you shouldn't have to compensate as much as it seems we do.

All that said, I love my X-Pro1 and wouldn't trade it regardless. I just think Fuji needs to put some effort in this area. I would also would love to see more tips and tricks from users on how they work around the focusing difficulties.

--
Matt Fahrner
http://boinkphoto.com

 

[Paul Szilard]

Just had to add my 2 cents' worth here - but it seems that so many pleople have forgotten to how to use:

1) Hyperfocal distance manual focus
2) Pre-focus
3) "Guess" focus

By "guess" I mean, if you are photographing a subject that is more than 50 feet, it is a safe guess to focus to infinity using manual and then set aperture to say f4 and everything will be sharp and your "delay" is 45 milliseconds (I think) for shutter release.

I am a strong believer in learning to use your equipment. I have used the above techniques with all my compact cameras, starting with film, Nikon Ti28 and Ti35, Olympus XA and than digital Ricoh GX100, Fuji X100 and of course the XPRO1.

Give it a go, you will ike it.
--
paul szilard
http://photos.remektek.com.au

 

[wilburpan]

i dont say i cant at all with XPRO1, just 80% of this shot will be missed using AF and worse...after you miss 2-3-4 shots...i start to become nervous...

I used my X-Pro 1 and the 35mm lens for taking pictures in a 4th of July parade last week. I'm not saying that I didn't miss any shots, but it was nowhere near 80%. It wasn't DSLR-level performance, but it wasn't terrible. And I'll say again that I really don't miss the shots that I didn't get.

I'll also say that I got a lot better with practice. When I first got my X-Pro 1, my keeper rate improved the more that I used it.

 

[JSTB]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare basically a wide angle zoom to a 50mm equivalent. For example, I recently purchased the Nikon 28mm F1.8G. It does not focus any faster on my D700 (still waiting for my D800E to ship...sigh...) than the Fuji 18mm. The Nikon 50mm F1.4 G doesn't focus any faster than the Fuji 35mm. For that matter the my 35mm F1.4 G doesn't really focus any faster than the Fuji lenses and that darn thing cost $1500. Now my 24-70 and 70-200 G Series lenses focus faster and they better. Combined they cost almost $4000.

But if I had any advice I'd just sell the camera and get something that works for you instead of worrying about it. It's just a camera that works for some people and not for others. No big deal. Get the one that works for you. I like Nikon FF and the X Pro some people like MFT. There really isn't a right answer just what's right for you.

 

[ZZ9]

well i m starting to think my 35mm its defective, its really too slow....

i have used many cameras in last years and just for give my 2 cents

my 5D MII (who its a camera with a slow AF, a lot slower then D700) focus much faster then both 18mm and 35mm also with a tamron 28-75mm , and for example my old 28-105mm USM blow away fuji lens. the 24-70mm 2.8 that i sold couse its too big for my tastes its very fast also

all m43 lens are faster then any fuji lens, the 14-140mm that i dont use anymore its fast as the canon 24-70mm USM, the primes are all very fast exept the 20mm 1.7 who is painfully slow (but a speed demon compared to the 35mm )

I'm not sure it's fair to compare basically a wide angle zoom to a 50mm equivalent. For example, I recently purchased the Nikon 28mm F1.8G. It does not focus any faster on my D700 (still waiting for my D800E to ship...sigh...) than the Fuji 18mm. The Nikon 50mm F1.4 G doesn't focus any faster than the Fuji 35mm. For that matter the my 35mm F1.4 G doesn't really focus any faster than the Fuji lenses and that darn thing cost $1500. Now my 24-70 and 70-200 G Series lenses focus faster and they better. Combined they cost almost $4000.

But if I had any advice I'd just sell the camera and get something that works for you instead of worrying about it. It's just a camera that works for some people and not for others. No big deal. Get the one that works for you. I like Nikon FF and the X Pro some people like MFT. There really isn't a right answer just what's right for you.

 

[ZZ9]

well fuji its not a camera for use Hyperfocal , the lens havent any scale marks, are focus by wire...and also the focus ring move easy

also if i buy a camera witha 1.4 lens this mean that i will use mostly in night (i take a lot of photos at night) so its useless

if you consider from a wider point of view, 50 years ago Cartier Bresson was one of the few on the world who could travel and take stunning photos in remotes place (he was very very rich also) so it was easier take good photos, also with a slow Rangefinder Leica, some of his photos (many) are also out of focus...

if he had also a entry level canon 600D at that time his production was 100 times wider (and better quality)

so why to be a masochist with slow equipment now?

Just had to add my 2 cents' worth here - but it seems that so many pleople have forgotten to how to use:

1) Hyperfocal distance manual focus
2) Pre-focus
3) "Guess" focus

By "guess" I mean, if you are photographing a subject that is more than 50 feet, it is a safe guess to focus to infinity using manual and then set aperture to say f4 and everything will be sharp and your "delay" is 45 milliseconds (I think) for shutter release.

I am a strong believer in learning to use your equipment. I have used the above techniques with all my compact cameras, starting with film, Nikon Ti28 and Ti35, Olympus XA and than digital Ricoh GX100, Fuji X100 and of course the XPRO1.

Give it a go, you will ike it.
--
paul szilard
http://photos.remektek.com.au

 

[Lodro Rigdzin]

If I stumble on someting, it is because I haven't paid attention previously to that moment. If I don't get a shot like the one you describe it is because I wasn't sufficiently present in the moment to get it. I posted a series of street shots here, that I did in Amsterdam. For instance, when I walked back to central station there was a beautiful moment when a chinese man and his about 4 year old granddaughter came out of a shop and were stopped by an acquaintance who stooped down to greet the little girl by pinching her cheek. That could have been a great photograph, if I had been in the right place to shoot it and if I hadn't packed my camera away already. I see it, regret it, but that's it. A teacher of mine at photography school always said: "the best photos you make in your head, without the camera". And I've found this to be true. But I don't see that as "missing" shots. There's so much in the flow of life that no one misses anything, ever.

Garry Winogrand: "there are no pictures when I reload"

So you've never stumbled on a great photo moment where you couldn't get your gear together in time? I just don't believe it. Example - a bike comes around the corner and a tough looking guy has some hilarious looking little dog in a front basket. And it's a girls bike. Like that and you're already looking at his back. That kinda stuff just happens. I've definitely missed some shots, with all kinds of cameras. Sometimes it's my fault, but sometimes it is the gears fault. On the x100 slow af and no distance scale on the lens can make those split second shots even tougher to get.

I do a lot of reportage style work with the x-pro: I have no issues with the focus for this type of work. Hard to say how it is going with the OP, since I don't know how he shoots at all.

and also a question that keeps haunting me: what does "missing shots" mean exactly? I wait for the right shot, sometimes for a considerable time and I never miss shots because of equipment but always because of my own stupidity or absent mindedness or because of not being in the flow of shooting the right way.

the way other people describe "missing" shots, it's like a train one fails to catch.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brudy

 

[Paul Szilard]

Well, I own an X100 and had a loan of an XPRO1 for 2 weeks, and had no problems using hyperfocal focusing. They both have manual focus, which even though by wire, can be set to any distance.

I have typically set it to my X100 to f4, which gives a hyperfocal distance of 7m using the 23mm lens.

For the XPRO1 with 35mm lens, f4 gives a hyperfocal distance of 16m, but if I focused to 10m the DOF would cover 6.2m to 26m, which is quite reasonable.

There are a number DOF calculators for the iPhone/iPad, which can be helpful. I particularly like Simple DoF Calculator as it uses the full screen on my iPad.

If you are keen to have very fast focus in a sub-DSLR, then take a look at the latest Olympus OM-D EM-5. I believe it is outstanding.
--
paul szilard
http://photos.remektek.com.au

 

[ZZ9]

yes its sure helpful hypefocal

the problem is that when you shoot at night using 1.4 or f2 its a pain, DOF is very narrow

also you must count, pity that DOF scale on LCD is very conservative as many people showed

if was so easy sure i had bought the voigtlander 17.5 F0,95 coupled with the OMD
problem: you can imagine use hyperfocal shooting at 0,95 ?

Well, I own an X100 and had a loan of an XPRO1 for 2 weeks, and had no problems using hyperfocal focusing. They both have manual focus, which even though by wire, can be set to any distance.

I have typically set it to my X100 to f4, which gives a hyperfocal distance of 7m using the 23mm lens.

For the XPRO1 with 35mm lens, f4 gives a hyperfocal distance of 16m, but if I focused to 10m the DOF would cover 6.2m to 26m, which is quite reasonable.

There are a number DOF calculators for the iPhone/iPad, which can be helpful. I particularly like Simple DoF Calculator as it uses the full screen on my iPad.

If you are keen to have very fast focus in a sub-DSLR, then take a look at the latest Olympus OM-D EM-5. I believe it is outstanding.
--
paul szilard
http://photos.remektek.com.au

 

[CraigArnold]

I think you're on a hiding to nothing here.

It seems like the X cameras are just never going to work for you. It happens to some people; their natural shooting style is just not right for the Fujis.

I would be very surprised if you ever get acceptable performance from an X camera.

Why not pack all that stuff in and get a 5DMkIII? The AF performance is getting rave reviews - easily equivalent to D3/1D4. Maybe a D4 or 1DX would be better.

Use a couple of small primes, 50 1.4 or 28 1.8, stopped down 1/2 stop and you're good to go. If you shoot a lot at night the light/DR in the scene is so poor anyway that the minor flaws in the lenses are not going to be an issue. You just need them in focus.

The 5D3 is smaller and has a much quieter shutter than the 5D2. I think that's your best option.

--
Blog ------------------------ http://peri.org.uk/wp/?tag=blog
X100 Blog ----------------- http://peri.org.uk/wp/?cat=16
X100 Quickstart Guide -- http://peri.org.uk/wp/?page_id=1345