So, if you all really want the XP1, why ain't ya bought these ones?!

[tommiejeep]

Sorry , wrong spot to reply...disregard

--
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong
Tom
http://taja.smugmug.com/

 

[gulogulo]

One cannot draw the conclusion that the camera is not selling because of stock at B&H. There could be a number of reasons including Fuji not wanting the same experience as the X100. Make sure dealers have stock. Mine will be delivered today. I am tired of carrying around tons of weight. Light and nimble is best and fuji offers that. I don't care about the quirks. They can be dealt with just as with any camera. When legacy lens adapters become readily available a couple of Leica m lenses on this will be stellar.

Just because Lloyd said it does not make it so. You have to take what he, or anyone else, says with a grain of salt. None one knows all the facts. Remember the rules of logic. One can have false premises and false conclusions and still have a logical argument.

I can't wait to get my hands on the camera.

--
Happy is the man who makes his living by his hobby.
Henry Higgins

 

[scdown]

While it would be nice to see a full frame X-mount, I'm not sure we'll see that happen. I'm sure that the example you would use is DSLRs - they support both with the same lens mount, therefore why not the X-mount?

DSLR mounts, like Nikon's F-mount, were designed for full frame in the first place. Back flange distance is far enough from the sensor that an FX lens can cover a full frame image circle. Put a smaller APS-C sensor under the same mount, and it still works because you have even better coverage.

The X-mount is designed to be compact, with a tight back flange distance (17mm?). Lenses designed for this mount will cover the APS-C image circle, but I'm thinking that if you put a full frame sensor under a lens that close, it's not going to cover.

UNLESS, of course, the image circle of the XF lenses is so wide as to negate that issue. Now, I'm willing to wait until some more tests come in - if testing reveals that there's no light falloff at the corners on any of the lenses wide open, perhaps the lenses are designed for it. Just seems unlikely to me, is all.

... I think if Olympus agrees on partnership with Fuji instead of Sony this year, we will probably see full frame retro X body in 18 months

 

[hellocrowley]

Agreed completely. I myself bought an XP1 with the hope of being able to ignore its shortcomings, but we'll see how that turns out. A friend of mine who just got into photography asked me what to buy and I told him to buy the OM-D, it is a safer choice.

Honestly the main reason I'm buying XP1 over the OM-D and the Nex7 is not because of the OVF or the (better?) image quality. It's because of the 35mm 1.4. To me, XP1 body is inferior to those cameras, and I couldn't care less about a quirky OVF. But I'm sick of waiting for Nex lenses and not ready to give up DOF control.

I wouldn't be surprised if the XP1 turns out to be a sales flop.

I think a lot of us are waiting to see how the evf on the olympus om-d e-m5 will turn out when the first proper previews etc shows up. The olympus and panasonic mFT range is pretty tempting.

Had the ovf on the x pro 1 been better, had the body been weather sealed, had the mf worked, had the 18mm lens been better, had the 60mm lens been faster, had the frame lines been more accurate, had the off had diopter adjustment etc etc, x pro 1 would've been sold out

As it is now, the Xpro1 is higher quality than all other aps-c sensors or smaller, even compared to some of the older 35mm formats, but will you ever get the shot?

And before there's support in lightroom etc there's just no way I and many with me will even consider buying it
--
Anders

'It is nice to be important but it is more important to be nice'

 

[chopsteeks]

Yup and for those folks who will dish out $2300, they will take their time researching this possible purchase...

This is from Lloyd Chambers' blog today:

"I’m quite surprised to see a new and heavily anticipated camera sit there in stock at B&H Photo all day long, because most new and exciting cameras fly off the shelves instantly. See my notes on the Fujifilm X-Pro1.

As I write this late on the 3rd of April, the Fujifilm X-Pro1 and the 18/2 and 35/1.4 lenses were all in stock. Note that due to Passover, B&H orders must be placed by 4:00PM EDT on Thursday April 5th in order to ship before the holiday closure."

 

[calxn]

The price isn't really the problem.

The X100 issues are widely known. They were annoying enough that any reports of any slight issues with the XPro1 was enough to scare many of the X100 owners and fans away. Note, I said many and not all. Many of them have decided to stick with the X100 or, like me, buy the NEX-7. I've since decided that my NEX-7 with a 24mm and 50mm is more than fine for me.

The other problem for the XPro1 is that the D800 has sucked the air out of the room for every camera maker for the moment. I think it may have even temporarily stunted the migration to mirrorless. I was planning on selling all my Nikon lenses but now have the D800E on preorder.

If price was a limiting factor than the $3k D800 wouldn't be sold out. Also, Nikon is going to print money on all those G primes they're going to be selling to new D800 owners. Unfortunately, I'm caught up in the hype too and looking to get the 24mm G and 85/1.8 lenses for the D800E.

 

[pkincy]

This simply is a result of Fuji ramping up production so that stock could get out immediately. B&H, Amazon, and Autorama all had huge amounts of preorders but apparently were able to get enough stock of all but the 60 mm to fill the preorders plus have some to sell.

My store did not get enough stock to fill all the preorders, but when it came available at Amazon I picked it up there.

Seeing some stock is not an indication of anything but that they have fixed their production and distribution problems.

See huge discounts would mean that the camera is not selling well.

Let's don't go jumping to ridiculous conclusions so easily.

Perry

 

[calxn]

There's no jumping to any conclusions. I'm not disparaging the XPro 1. Quite frankly, I really don't care if a camera is selling like hotcakes or not. I really don't have any brand loyalty. I'm sure Fuji has a hit on their hands. Whether it's an X100 introduction type hit or not is another debate. Personally, I think the shine has come off the apple temporarily. Some people would look at it in a good way. Having a camera not used by the masses will give them images with a different look. I may one day have an XPro 2 or 3. Still love the form factor.

 

[barjohn]

While cost was not the major factor keeping me from buying one, the lack of significant improvements over the X100 was a very big factor. At the time I purchased the X100 there was no camera that could match its IQ even though several could beat its performance. Having lived with it for over a year I was really looking forward to a newer version with or without interchangeable lenses but with really fast AF, improved framing lines, MF that worked as well or better than MF on a range finder camera, lenses with leaf shutters for fast flash sync speeds and ultra quiet operation, of course better buttons and better menu. I also expected the IQ to be even better. So far, I am only seeing a better menu and buttons. That isn't enough to make me part with my money.

I read where people say they can live with the slow AF and other quirks. I frankly don't understand that. One could say the same about any P&S in that you can get the shot as long as everyone holds still and poses and so what if the AF and other features are slow or quirky. The so what is you are spending $2300 to $3K+ and in that price range I want more. I don't think I am alone.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
http://www.barjohn.com/My Photographs/index.html
Comments and critiques welcome.

 

[RealXenuis]

Nothing wrong with waiting to check out the em5. It's an appealing camera (on paper).

What's wrong with the OVF? I use it just fine, and it's bright enough and I've never once thought "wow, this is awful to use"? Puzzling.

I'd like weather sealing too. Though I've only shot in light rain and snow really. Dust has never been an issue with any camera I've used to date, including film. Gotta get everything cleaned and checked every few yrs anyway right? But it does give me (possibly false, possibly legitimate) peace of mind.

The 18 is great. Not sure the false controversy about it on DPR. Probably the early pre-prod model examples. I was turned off of it then as well, but it seems vastly different than back then. I have it and it's great. I'm awaiting the 60, but it's a portrait lens. It's really not supposed to be fast, is it? I guess when the stabilized tele-zoom comes out we'll have that option. Are they making a longer prime?

MF doesn't work? Hmm.

What I don't like about the diopter is that the glass isn't shallow enough and attracts the oil from my eyelashes. It's worse that an LCD b/c I can't get to it easily to clean it.

I get just about every shot I attempt, so that's confusing. I bet if you asked all the current owners, you'd have much more confidence in the camera than you do now. I've shot in a moving car, at a moving car, my running dog, plants blowing in the wind, people walking. I've had most issues in low light and wide open, but that's an issue with many CDF cameras with glass this wide. I get much faster better results when it's stopped down (35mm). I've yet to have any focusing issues with the 18 (I've only had it two days, granted) that I wouldn't have with literally any lens. These are strange reiterations in a forum full of them. No one is proclaiming XP1 + lenses to be the "best", fastest AF. But at the same time, it's absurdly misrepresented, mostly by people who have shown a bias (not necessarily you) and don't own the camera. It's funny, sure, but it doesn't represent what a lot of owners are talking about. I suppose this will just continue, as it seems to motivation to (falsely and with bias) bash a company is greater than to represent it more fairly. Or at least, it's much more controversial and brings out the loudest? I can't be sure.

I think a lot of us are waiting to see how the evf on the olympus om-d e-m5 will turn out when the first proper previews etc shows up. The olympus and panasonic mFT range is pretty tempting.

Had the ovf on the x pro 1 been better, had the body been weather sealed, had the mf worked, had the 18mm lens been better, had the 60mm lens been faster, had the frame lines been more accurate, had the off had diopter adjustment etc etc, x pro 1 would've been sold out

As it is now, the Xpro1 is higher quality than all other aps-c sensors or smaller, even compared to some of the older 35mm formats, but will you ever get the shot?

And before there's support in lightroom etc there's just no way I and many with me will even consider buying it
--
Anders

'It is nice to be important but it is more important to be nice'

 

[itairom]

I read where people say they can live with the slow AF and other quirks. I frankly don't understand that. One could say the same about any P&S in that you can get the shot as long as everyone holds still and poses and so what if the AF and other features are slow or quirky. The so what is you are spending $2300 to $3K+ and in that price range I want more. I don't think I am alone.

Fair enough, but I think people have different standards of what constitutes slow AF. Plenty of people lived with the 5D2's AF, and most reports I've seen about the X-Pro1 say its AF speed is comparable. That's not great, but it's a personal judgement whether it's satisfactory in a $1700 camera.

The only lens that early reports indicate is pretty much a dog when it comes to AF is the 60mm. Well, I've never seen a macro lens that isn't slow at AF. I'd still like to see Fuji release a non-macro telephoto prime for that reason, but - and I admit I haven't used one yet - the lens compared to its peers may end up being about average in terms of AF speed.

 

[JSTB]

Of course these things are subject to change but as of 5 minutes ago it was the #1 selling compact camera on Amazon (ahead of the NEX 5 and 7).

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Compact-System-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011/?tag=rumors04-20

If I had to guess, I'd bet Fuji has already made a profit on the camera. I remember people saying for weeks that the X100 was going to be a flop. Doesn't look like that now. I believe it's still retailing at it's original price. I'd tend to trust the people at Fuji more than the experts on this forum on camera marketing.

 

[LaFonte]

I think saying the xpro1 (and the x100 as well) has slow AF is simply misinterpretation of the real issue. There is not much focus hunting.

The AF is fast by any "normal" standards. The real problem is with occasional obtaining of the focus at all. As with the x100 in some (not many, don't misinterpret me) situation you half press shutter and then the AF is red, without actually any prolonged hunting, camera simply gave up trying to obtain focus within a second.
So you re-frame half press and the AF is green. Bingo, but a lot of time wasted.

Now if you are used to DSLR, they don't simply give up so easily. My 5DMK2 with 50mm may hunt for the focus in tight spot but it will eventually find it.
So the focus is fast, just the act of focusING may be slow.

I read where people say they can live with the slow AF and other quirks. I frankly don't understand that. One could say the same about any P&S in that you can get the shot as long as everyone holds still and poses and so what if the AF and other features are slow or quirky. The so what is you are spending $2300 to $3K+ and in that price range I want more. I don't think I am alone.

Fair enough, but I think people have different standards of what constitutes slow AF. Plenty of people lived with the 5D2's AF, and most reports I've seen about the X-Pro1 say its AF speed is comparable. That's not great, but it's a personal judgement whether it's satisfactory in a $1700 camera.

The only lens that early reports indicate is pretty much a dog when it comes to AF is the 60mm. Well, I've never seen a macro lens that isn't slow at AF. I'd still like to see Fuji release a non-macro telephoto prime for that reason, but - and I admit I haven't used one yet - the lens compared to its peers may end up being about average in terms of AF speed.

 

[LaFonte]

Well if a vast majority of people who were certainly planning to get the camera did preorder, then yes, the stock in stores would mostly sit - this is hardly an impulsive buy, you go to the store to buy something and wow, wrap me up this $3000 fuji baby there as well.

Of course these things are subject to change but as of 5 minutes ago it was the #1 selling compact camera on Amazon (ahead of the NEX 5 and 7).

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Compact-System-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011/?tag=rumors04-20

If I had to guess, I'd bet Fuji has already made a profit on the camera. I remember people saying for weeks that the X100 was going to be a flop. Doesn't look like that now. I believe it's still retailing at it's original price. I'd tend to trust the people at Fuji more than the experts on this forum on camera marketing.

 

[RealXenuis]

Unfortunately, you describe a camera that doesn't and never will exist, right? Not that that's any company's fault, but there are tradeoffs that are made. And even if every menu item were ticked off your list, there would be a thousand other ppl who would complain that it's all wrong and doesn't tick off their list.

As compared with the X100, though i'm sorry you don't find any big improvements, many many people have. And certainly, they're not all wrong or delusional. This is all preference, of course. And I can only assume that you bought an X100, owned it long enough to get a good feel for it and what it can do, and then kept it for it's exceptional IQ.

You may not be alone, but rather part of a group who either never used the cam for any length of time, who for some reason hate any-other-camera-but-their-own, or who's priorities lie in things like very fast AF. It's safe to say no one who saw the XP1 was attracted to it by it's implied promise of blazing sports photog performance.

Having said that, you don't understand it b/c it's not true. The AF is fine. It's not slow in any conditions that many other cameras aren't. Certainly, many other cameras are faster, but they also don't have things the XP1 does. That doesn't make the XP1 NOT an upgrade over the X100, just like it doesn't require it's subjects to "hold still". It's fun to exaggerate and be loose with language, but it's also perpetuating a lie on the forums, with questionable intent. If you need to build a case for why you're not buying it, it's not any less convincing to just say it's AF is not fast enough for your needs, no?

As for spending the money on it, no you're not alone. And that's great. I'd like to spend less on everything that I want, including the XP1. But I don't think $1700 comes with some requirement that it outperform everything less expensive. If we apply the same standard, I could guffaw at the price this or that camera sells at with much lesser IQ, handling, looks, etc etc. And you're gonna find it hard to make the case that the lenses aren't worth their current price.

While cost was not the major factor keeping me from buying one, the lack of significant improvements over the X100 was a very big factor. At the time I purchased the X100 there was no camera that could match its IQ even though several could beat its performance. Having lived with it for over a year I was really looking forward to a newer version with or without interchangeable lenses but with really fast AF, improved framing lines, MF that worked as well or better than MF on a range finder camera, lenses with leaf shutters for fast flash sync speeds and ultra quiet operation, of course better buttons and better menu. I also expected the IQ to be even better. So far, I am only seeing a better menu and buttons. That isn't enough to make me part with my money.

I read where people say they can live with the slow AF and other quirks. I frankly don't understand that. One could say the same about any P&S in that you can get the shot as long as everyone holds still and poses and so what if the AF and other features are slow or quirky. The so what is you are spending $2300 to $3K+ and in that price range I want more. I don't think I am alone.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
http://www.barjohn.com/My Photographs/index.html
Comments and critiques welcome.

 

[chopsteeks]

Nothing is wrong with OVF. Heck great images have been captured using viewfinderless point and shoot.

As folks like to think of themselves as 'artists', you are saying that an OVF will limit your imagination ?

What's wrong with the OVF? I use it just fine, and it's bright enough and I've never once thought "wow, this is awful to use"? Puzzling.

 

[RealXenuis]

Huh? Mayhaps you misread my post.

Nothing is wrong with OVF. Heck great images have been captured using viewfinderless point and shoot.

As folks like to think of themselves as 'artists', you are saying that an OVF will limit your imagination ?

What's wrong with the OVF? I use it just fine, and it's bright enough and I've never once thought "wow, this is awful to use"? Puzzling.

 

[ricko5]

I do think the price has something to do with it.

I might be mistaken but when the XPro 1 was first announced in the UK it was "rumoured" to be £1k for the body and £500 per lens. Ok, at this price I am interested if it really pulls out all the stops.

But the price is close to £1,500 for the body and it doesn't pull out all the stops.

Quirks on an X100 at £700, maybe.

Quirks on a £1,500 X1p body... hmmm... yes the sensor looks great but the focus is about as fast as a £500 camera and the viewfinder is a definite step down from the less-than-half-the-price-X100.

I want to want one, but with nice fast glass on my D700 it has a lot to live up to for that kind of money, a £2k investment just to get that form factor of camera.

 

[RealXenuis]

Price has something to do with the value decision, sure. But that decision is very personal. For instance, I really wanted an (used) D700 but I just couldn't justify spending $2300 for a used, body only of a camera that was several yrs old. Basically the mirror of your perspective, but no different.

You mention the sensor looks great. Some..many even..think it looks more than great. You mention the viewfinder being definitely a step down from the X100. I've read 20's of posters saying it's not. You say its focus is as fast as a 500 BP camera. Well what's that camera focusing? What's that lens like? Hows the sensor? Is the AF of the XP1 unusably slow for your shooting style? You spent a LOT for even a used D700 and "fast glass". Can you really make that comparison and keep all the other comparison? It's sort of cherry picking to create a worst case. That's fine, if it's for your personal value choices. But it's in no way some objective construction of why the XP1 is not worth the money. The fact is, people are buying it, using it, loving using it, and not returning it. At that point it can't NOT be worth the money...right?

You're not paying 2GBP for "form factor". Or maybe you are, but that's a weird single criteria to have. You've already mentioned great sensor. I think what you mean by "pulling all the stops" is "how cheap can i get this camera that that fits my idea of perfection". If you think the D700 is perfect, then surely you wouldn't like this camera, so in that way it makes sense.

I do think the price has something to do with it.

I might be mistaken but when the XPro 1 was first announced in the UK it was "rumoured" to be £1k for the body and £500 per lens. Ok, at this price I am interested if it really pulls out all the stops.

But the price is close to £1,500 for the body and it doesn't pull out all the stops.

Quirks on an X100 at £700, maybe.

Quirks on a £1,500 X1p body... hmmm... yes the sensor looks great but the focus is about as fast as a £500 camera and the viewfinder is a definite step down from the less-than-half-the-price-X100.

I want to want one, but with nice fast glass on my D700 it has a lot to live up to for that kind of money, a £2k investment just to get that form factor of camera.

 

[The Smoking Camera]

Many excellent points. The x100 is quite unique and Fuji did not make the X-Pro 1 stand out from the competition in quite the same way. If Fuji had included a few of the following features it would be flying off the shelves.

• Leaf shutters on each lens for high speed sync.
• Silent mode.
• A 23mm lens (same as x100).
• Built in diopter.
• Speedy autofocus.
• Weatherproofing.

In some ways the X-Pro 1 makes the x100 look like a bargain. Now hoping for a worthy successor to the x100 in the near future.
--
Joe
http://www.thesmokingcamera.com