Hog Heaven, a rant

[Harry Behret]

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk (excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of $1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

 

[Rodger Carter]

Glad you feel better. If you pick up a copy of Consumer Reports and check the various brands of automobiles, you will find that it is not uncomon for them to find a dozen or more problems with a new vehicle (and they cost a lot more than your 717!). The very best may have only two-three minor faults. Your 717 apparently has a single, very minor fault that Sony will fix quickly for free. Maybe your expectations are a bit unrealistic.

Rodger

 

[bronson99817]

Here we go again.

First of all, we're not talking about a defective car. Nobody's life is in danger. In the grand scheme of things, we're talking about a dumb (actually, the best) little camera with a minor focusing problem (easily fixed at no charge).

Man oh man, is life so miserable that this is such a big problem???

Yes, it's $1000, so what?? I usually expect anything I buy to be perfect even a music CD for $10 but guess what... we live in an imperfect world full of H-U-M-A-N-S and as humans we are pretty good at dealing with imperfection.

They might just be human in the Sony QC dept after all. We know they are over at Nikon. ;-)

end my rant.

Now I'm going to go and have a good day.

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

 

[Shay Stephens]

Glad you now feel better after ranting and dragging down everyone else. I am glad it makes you feel better to make others feel bad about their camera and putting pangs of doubt into those who have no problem with their camera. It's good to act as if life revolves around an auto focus issue. It's good to to be irrational about a minor problem and blow it up to the level of a personal attack on your safety and security. We don't need to think about anyone but ourselves, so let er rip people.

There are probably a hundred different things we all own that are not perfect in some way, so let's find them, and then come back here and whine like there is no tomorrow about it. I am sure that if doing it for one thing helps, doing it for everything we own will make us all feel like we are the king and queen of the world!

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[Shay Stephens]

"I've had the 717 for a couple of weeks and its a fine camera. Mine is making its way to the SONY ctr for the fix. I did not have any problems with the camera before sending it in but I decided to be safe."
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=3708764

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[PFR]

Believe me Harry, the only time they would be in hog heaven is in the only posts going on were talking about how great the camera is. For every negative post on a forum, there are probably 100 customers out there with the same opinion. When I surf the web, I don't like to see anything negative about our products. Even when the comments are unfair, or incorrect, the manufacturer feels that it is their fault because they either communicated the wrong message, or otherwise failed to win over that consumer. A healthy approach in this industry is that the negative comments you see are only the tip of the iceberg. If you can address these points when they are only comments, then you can avoid a lot of lost money due to recalls, rework and lost sales. A return can cost you a lot more than the profit on a sale. The best way to make a profit is to sell a quality product that doesn't come back.

--
Pat
http://community.webshots.com/user/pfr_01
http://community.webshots.com/user/skate_adventures
http://www.pbase.com/pfr

 

[TurboTed]

So you are asking for a 100% perfect camera? It's okay if you are, I just feel it is unreasonable to ask and need to clarify before continuing.

What would you pay for such a camera? I'm not just asking monetary cost, which is a factor, but also consider what you might loose in features, time, convenience and everything which contributes to the complexity of design and testing. If you were really able to force companies to release trouble-free products all you'll see are simple, featureless products that are years too late to market. Of course being late to market is only relative and may not be an issue since the release of products of any sort from any company would be severely hindered by this demand of yours.

The fact is that you are right that we do bring this on ourselves. It is our lust for the latest and greatest which encourages companies to push and push to get new products out the door. Did you get your 717 or are you just waiting? If you jumped at the chance to get one of the first 717's then you got exactly what you deserved. A great camera but one which was first off the assembly line and had a higher chance of being defective. It is not some great secret that problems like this can arise as we already know from last year. If you are waiting, then I commend you for doing the right thing.

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

--
TurboTed

(It's easier just being insane than acting insane)

 

[Mike G.75791]

Glad you now feel better after ranting and dragging down everyone
else. I am glad it makes you feel better to make others feel bad
about their camera and putting pangs of doubt into those who have
no problem with their camera. It's good to act as if life revolves
around an auto focus issue. It's good to to be irrational about a
minor problem and blow it up to the level of a personal attack on
your safety and security. We don't need to think about anyone but
ourselves, so let er rip people.

There are probably a hundred different things we all own that are
not perfect in some way, so let's find them, and then come back
here and whine like there is no tomorrow about it. I am sure that
if doing it for one thing helps, doing it for everything we own
will make us all feel like we are the king and queen of the world!

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[Ann Chaikin]

it is not possible to test every possibility nor desirable either. The amount we'd have to pay for a camera that was "thoroughly" tested would astound you. And, much as the QC department might try, it will not be able to come up with testing scenarios to cover all situations. Customers will find new things to do with a product that the testing department never even thought of... I know this from formerly being a software developer and tester.

Sony is handling this problem in a professional way. They arrange to pick up the camera at their expense, fix the problem quickly (I hope) and get the camera back to you. What I don't like are companies who deny there is a problem and refuse to own up to their mistakes. That is not the case here.

Perfection is unattainable. This is a good lesson to learn in all areas including personally. I learned it well about 20 years ago when I made a really obvious stupid mistake (not harmful or dagerous but very visible to my boss and coworkers) and my life has been much better since. Since then I've KNOWN I wasn't perfect and have been more accepting of imperfections in others and in the world in general. It is a good lesson well worth learning.

Ann

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries
http://www.annchaikin.com

 

[Eric Lamont]

You said what a lot of us feel. Its messages like this that make me want to leave the forum.

Glad you now feel better after ranting and dragging down everyone
else. I am glad it makes you feel better to make others feel bad
about their camera and putting pangs of doubt into those who have
no problem with their camera. It's good to act as if life revolves
around an auto focus issue. It's good to to be irrational about a
minor problem and blow it up to the level of a personal attack on
your safety and security. We don't need to think about anyone but
ourselves, so let er rip people.

There are probably a hundred different things we all own that are
not perfect in some way, so let's find them, and then come back
here and whine like there is no tomorrow about it. I am sure that
if doing it for one thing helps, doing it for everything we own
will make us all feel like we are the king and queen of the world!

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

--
Eric
DSC-F717
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

 

[Steve Cavigliano]

You're absolutely right to expect a high quality product, for the price you paid. I also share your pain on having to part with this gem for even a week.

Having said that, I have to agree with most of the other posters. I don't believe Sony has any joyful feelings about this, at all. I know how hard Japanese management takes quality issues. I can assure you, if it makes you feel better, that someone's, or many one's, head rolled for this debacle. You know I'm afraid to run the same test on my 707. It may have the same issue. This problem smacks of something they never looked for in the mfg process. So it's possible the 707 has it too.

As for dragging everyone down. I think Sony already took care of that issue. While I still love my 717, I can't help feeling that there may be other issues, yet un-covered. Will that feeling keep from using it. Heck no. If there's more bugs, I want to find them as soon as possible. Fortunately most of what I've uncovered, so far, has been positives not negatives.

Thanks for the rant, after answering I feel better too...lol
Steve

Sony is handling this problem in a professional way. They arrange
to pick up the camera at their expense, fix the problem quickly (I
hope) and get the camera back to you. What I don't like are
companies who deny there is a problem and refuse to own up to their
mistakes. That is not the case here.

Perfection is unattainable. This is a good lesson to learn in all
areas including personally. I learned it well about 20 years ago
when I made a really obvious stupid mistake (not harmful or
dagerous but very visible to my boss and coworkers) and my life has
been much better since. Since then I've KNOWN I wasn't perfect and
have been more accepting of imperfections in others and in the
world in general. It is a good lesson well worth learning.

Ann

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries
http://www.annchaikin.com

--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k

 

[W.C.]

Your posts usually interject a little humor in order to put things in much needed perspective.
What happened? Didn't you get your morning cup of coffee?
--
W.C. VandenBerg
http://www.pbase.com/wc_vandenberg
--

 

[johnd1]

The subject is getting stale Harry. Are you living in a dream world? Or do you just require attention like some other whiners on the forum? You and some others who apparently love reading your silly complaints over and over really need to do a reality check about how things are in life. Now bring on the flames . I'd rather read them than the repetitious whining about how Sony upset your lives. Why not just get a life!
John

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

 

[Judy Howle]

As for dragging everyone down. I think Sony already took care of
that issue. While I still love my 717, I can't help feeling that
there may be other issues, yet un-covered. Will that feeling keep
from using it. Heck no. If there's more bugs, I want to find them
as soon as possible. Fortunately most of what I've uncovered, so
far, has been positives not negatives.

Thanks for the rant, after answering I feel better too...lol
Steve

I have decided not to rush to send mine in for repair since I do very little indoor/lowlight photography and I want to check it out more thoroughly to see if it might have other issues also. It definitely does have the HAF problem, ony 5 out of about 20 indoor night shots under incandescent lighting were in focus. Some of my cloudy day photos were foggy looking, while the next ones at a slightly different focal length would be perfect. Not sure if it's overexposure? Anyway, I only want to have to send it in once.

Judy Howle

 

[johnd1]

You got it right bronson.

For a lot of people on the forum life really is so miserable. The other forums must be having a good laugh at the bus load of whiners here. Sony corrects the problem and they still continue complaining.hahahahaahah.

Using the HAF is the most important thing in their lives and it doesn't function right. Maybe we need the government to step in.Hahahahaah
John

First of all, we're not talking about a defective car. Nobody's
life is in danger. In the grand scheme of things, we're talking
about a dumb (actually, the best) little camera with a minor
focusing problem (easily fixed at no charge).

Man oh man, is life so miserable that this is such a big problem???

Yes, it's $1000, so what?? I usually expect anything I buy to be
perfect even a music CD for $10 but guess what... we live in an
imperfect world full of H-U-M-A-N-S and as humans we are pretty
good at dealing with imperfection.

They might just be human in the Sony QC dept after all. We know
they are over at Nikon. ;-)

end my rant.

Now I'm going to go and have a good day.

Hi all,

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven. I’m going to my bosses and tell them that we can get rid of
most of our QC employees and increase our profitability. I’ll tell
him that our customers don’t mind a buggy release and will gladly
beta test any product we sell them. Heck they will even defend us
when a few malcontents criticize us. Whoee life is beautiful.

Maybe I’m just cranky but when I pay for something I expect it to
work. When I buy a car I expect that it won’t put my life at risk
(excluding NYC drivers of course); when I buy my red meat I expect
it to be free of disease; when I buy software I expect it to be bug
free (fool that I am); when I buy a camera whether I pay $100 of
$1000 I expect it to focus properly. Its not Ok with me to sell me
a camera and then say oops let me have it back for a while I just
have to make this simple little adjustment.

I love my 717 as much as I loved my 707 and I’m grateful to SONY
for making such a fine camera but its not acceptable to me to
release a camera that was not tested properly. If we give them a
free pass here where is the incentive not to repeat this scenario
with the 727? SONY is not making cameras out of their love for
photography their incentive comes from the bottom line. If the
bottom line won’t be impacted by shoddy QC then there’s no reason
to improve it.

Thank you for letting me go on, I feel better already.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

 

[Ampomfilo]

Why would Sony be in hog heaven? They had to issue a repair bulletin and pay for express shipping both ways to fix the cameras. Partially from reading this forum and receiving complaints from users. Not to mention the damage done to their reputation. I doubt anyone at Sony is happy about this.

I also don't understand why it is such a big deal. When someone on this forum first mentioned a possible issue, I did a test on my 717 and, sure enough, I had the same problem. I called it in to Sony and waited. In the mean time, I kept taking pictures and took the 717 hiking and got some of the best pictures I've ever taken. So now I'll wait for a week or so, get my camera back and keep taking great pictures.

I normally prefer other brands to Sony, since Sony doesn't make the best everything and charges a premium for their name, but in this case, the 717 is outstanding.

I bet you will get your camera back and everything will be cool again.

If I was a SONY exec and reading the posts here I would be in hog
heaven.

--
Amp
http://www.pbase.com/ltn
F717+B300+Canon250D
(F707 in better home)

 

[Harry Behret]

Rodger,

I don't think it should be unrealistic to expect an item to work. I am more concerned with our low expectations. We won't get better treatment unless we demand it.

Harry

 

[Harry Behret]

bronson,

I don't want to redo past posts. I know that this is not a major issue. I am very happy with the 717 and will be again when it comes home from its current jaunt. I was commenting more on what lack of upset over SONY not doing its job well. If you look at my past posts you'll see that I'm not an alarmist on this issue I just feel that SONY has to have some incentive to do better and that incentive has to come from us.

Have a good day.

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

 

[ZipperZ]

Cheese and rice!!!!

How long must people beat on this issue? Its a god damn complex electronic piece of equipment. Things are gonna happen! Cars are complex and they break down all the time. Get over it, get a life and go take some pictures. If you don't like it then return it and go gripe on something else. This forum is going to the crapper with all this nonsense. Me included! How do you like me now?!

Thank you for letting me go on, 'NOW' i "too" feel better already.

---------------------------------------------------
Posting these days requires either dedication or medication...
cheers
Zip

 

[Harry Behret]

Shay,

My intention was not to bring anyone down. If I did I apologize. I did say the 717 was a great camera and I looked forward to getting it back.

What I was trying to address as I said previously was our low expectations from companies. I think we won't get better treatment or products unless we demand better.

Again I was not trying to be negative. I don't think trying to get SONY to do a better job is negative. If I offended please accept my humble apology it was not my intent.

Harry