Optical viewfinders will dissappear...

[Razr]

Optical viewfinders will disappear when all us old fogies die off; not one day sooner.

Optical viewfinders allow for instant composition and shutter release coordination.

Whenever they get that stutter-step out of electronic viewfinders they might have a chance .

Until then, and as long as there are NFL & NBA games...and POLO, optical viewfinders have a place, at least with those people who shoot fast action and who also buy $8,999 SLRs.

 

[René Schuster]

Optical viewfinders will disappear

 

[GodSpeaks]

I don't know. But I do think that the day will come when the EVF's are able to match a good OVF for clarity and usefullnes. But when? 5 years? 10 years? It all depends on how much money the manufacturers are putting into R&D.

However, it seems like the manufacturers are more interested in taking viewfinders out of cameras than they are in putting in high quality EVF's.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

 

[Barrie Davis]

Razr wrote:
snip

Until then, and as long as there are NFL & NBA games...and POLO, optical viewfinders have a place, at least with those people who shoot fast action and who also buy $8,999 SLRs.

Do these sporting activities not appear on TV?

Do the TV cameras used for broadcast not have electronic viewfinders....[?]

.... [well, I doubt very much they have optical ones... (shrugs) ;-)]
--
Regards,
Baz

Well, I'll see your Cher, and your Streisand... and I'll raise you an Alice Babs!

 

[Andreas Stuebs]

I only this morning read the quick review of the Panasonic G10 and about the so-so EVF of that camera. I know that the OVF of the entry level SLR are nothing to write home about but they do beat a so-so EVF of a Panasonic G10 hands down. So I do second what you have written: The camera manufacturers are not really ztrying to put in decent view finders in entry to lower midrange cameras. It seems to me that whatever camera you choose, you need to pay €1000 at least for a decent viewfinder and if not you are still better of with a pentamirror finder than a so-so EVF

Andreas

I don't know. But I do think that the day will come when the EVF's are able to match a good OVF for clarity and usefullnes. But when? 5 years? 10 years? It all depends on how much money the manufacturers are putting into R&D.

However, it seems like the manufacturers are more interested in taking viewfinders out of cameras than they are in putting in high quality EVF's.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

 

[ZorSy]

Do the TV cameras used for broadcast not have electronic viewfinders....[?]

.... [well, I doubt very much they have optical ones... (shrugs) ;-)]
--

they do not have the shutter button, either....(in particular the studio ones, it's all on the control panel). ....and has nothing to do with the OP

 

[MusicDoctorDJ]

I personally think that the OVF's days are numbered in entry to mid-level DSLR's, and one day even the high end DSLR's.

I also think that DSLR's days are numbered as well . . . but that topic is for another day!

--
J. D.
Colorado

 

[Lee Jay]

Optical viewfinders will disappear when all us old fogies die off; not one day sooner.

I'm 40. My grandfather is 93 and doing okay. So, that means we'll have optical viewfinders for more than 50 more years, right? That's fine with me.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[Barrie Davis]

Do the TV cameras used for broadcast not have electronic viewfinders....[?]

.... [well, I doubt very much they have optical ones... (shrugs) ;-)]

they do not have the shutter button, either....(in particular the studio ones, it's all on the control panel). ....and has nothing to do with the OP

Oh! So it is shutters that are a problem [?] How does that happen, exactly?
--
Regards,
Baz

Well, I'll see your Cher, and your Streisand... and I'll raise you an Alice Babs!

 

[TrapperJohn]

video game arcades, auto tires that lasted 15k miles, pay phones, cassette players, mail order catalogs, and all the other things have disappeared in the last 10-20 years.

OVFs will disappear when something better comes along.

If old methods never became obsolete, we'd all be living in caves or under trees, with a life expectancy of around 25 years.

 

[Mark Smith145430]

Do the TV cameras used for broadcast not have electronic viewfinders....[?]

.... [well, I doubt very much they have optical ones... (shrugs) ;-)]

they do not have the shutter button, either....(in particular the studio ones, it's all on the control panel). ....and has nothing to do with the OP

Oh! So it is shutters that are a problem [?] How does that happen, exactly?

Its like this; in your example of fast moving action being captured with a TV camera, the camera is making 24-30 exposures a second-that's how it captures action with ease-in other words they are different from stills cameras.

With an EVF what you are looking at is history, so when you see it its already gone, you press the shutter and the camera takes the image just after the one you saw.

So TV/Video is a different ball-game as they have realtime shutters that record sequential exposures.

 

[Simon97]

But all of these things still exist in small numbers. I had to use a pay phone not too long ago when I forgot my cell. You can still buy a new cassette recorder...

The OVF will be around, perhaps in smaller numbers, like those other old gadgets.

 

[Lee Jay]

OVFs will disappear when something better comes along.

True, but no such thing has come along thus far. Binoculars are still optical, rear-view mirrors are still mirrors, telescopes still use eyepieces, and I still shave in a mirror, not a camera/monitor combination.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[Mark Smith145430]

video game arcades, auto tires that lasted 15k miles, pay phones, cassette players, mail order catalogs, and all the other things have disappeared in the last 10-20 years.

We have a pay phone just outside our house, mail order catalogues still exist, as do cassettes, How long your tyres last is another thing mine do 20-25k but on my old car (bigger rims) they lasted longer.
Hey I can still post a letter with a stamp....

The point is not every product that supersedes another is always better, sometimes they proliferate because of ease of use or cheaper production.

Or do you think beer tastes better from cans than bottles? Or energy saving lightbulbs have better quality light? Unleaded low octane fuel is better for mpg? or the catalytic converter on your car gives you better performance?

Some ideas are so simple that they have essentially remained unchanged-wheelbarrows, bottle openers, coins etc sure they improve their execution but the basic idea is the same.

OVF will be here until something that is better comes along-that hasn't happened yet

 

[teamrican1]

I only this morning read the quick review of the Panasonic G10 and about the so-so EVF of that camera. I know that the OVF of the entry level SLR are nothing to write home about but they do beat a so-so EVF of a Panasonic G10 hands down. So I do second what you have written: The camera manufacturers are not really ztrying to put in decent view finders in entry to lower midrange cameras. It seems to me that whatever camera you choose, you need to pay €1000 at least for a decent viewfinder and if not you are still better of with a pentamirror finder than a so-so EVF

But Panasonic also makes the GH1, which has the best EVF in the digital camera world. They just chose to put a crappier on in the G10 because the G10 is their budget model and the GH1 is their luxury line. I'd bet the house OVF's will be obsolete in entry and mid range DSLR's within 5 years.

 

[JamesRL]

The ones I used twenty years ago in a TV studio had a CRT about 6 or 7 inches in diameter. It was shielded on the top and the sides for maximum brightness, glare reduction. But we weren't shooting HD, just Standard Definition NTSC, so it had a resolution of 525 lines, scanning at 30Hz.

It was easy to view and bright, much better the EVFs I've used on my Fuji bridge cameras. Those EVFs helped drive me to a dSLR (after I played around with my film camera in low light and remembered how much better it was).

BTW the lenses on the TV cameras were Fujinon, the cameras themselves Hitachi.

 

[nikclick]

I only this morning read the quick review of the Panasonic G10 and about the so-so EVF of that camera. I know that the OVF of the entry level SLR are nothing to write home about but they do beat a so-so EVF of a Panasonic G10 hands down.

But Panasonic also makes the GH1, which has the best EVF in the digital camera world. They just chose to put a crappier on in the G10 because the G10 is their budget model and the GH1 is their luxury line. I'd bet the house OVF's will be obsolete in entry and mid range DSLR's within 5 years.

I have a GH1, and the viewfinder is a treat to behold. I don't feel it limits me at all.

However, I don't think it has to be an either / or situation. I can understand why people like optical view finders. Why does everything have to be polarised (no pun intended). You can still buy a medium format film camera, what makes you think that somehow a magic wand will be waved and all the OVFs will disappear? Live and let live, there is room for OVF and EVF, CDs and vinyl, film and digital, payphones and mobile phones

Optical viewfinders allow for instant composition and shutter release coordination.

Whilst there is a minute delay in seeing the image, I sincerely doubt that is the limiting factor for EVF cameras.

For all cameras, there is a delay between pressing the shutter release and the picture happening. An OVF camera has to swing the mirror out the way before it starts taking the picture, and this takes time. An EVF camera doesn't have this delay.

The things that are currently holding back micro four thirds cameras for being DSLR beaters is slightly slower focus lock and less rapid continuous shooting.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30225435@N00/

 

[Lee Jay]

Whilst there is a minute delay in seeing the image, I sincerely doubt that is the limiting factor for EVF cameras.

This is an absolutely MASSIVE issue for me. It prevents me from getting the subjects into the frame.

For all cameras, there is a delay between pressing the shutter release and the picture happening. An OVF camera has to swing the mirror out the way before it starts taking the picture, and this takes time. An EVF camera doesn't have this delay.

That's a different, and far less important delay.

The things that are currently holding back micro four thirds cameras for being DSLR beaters is slightly slower focus lock and less rapid continuous shooting.

It's not slightly, and continuous shooting speed isn't an issue for me.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[nikclick]

Whilst there is a minute delay in seeing the image, I sincerely doubt that is the limiting factor for EVF cameras.

This is an absolutely MASSIVE issue for me. It prevents me from getting the subjects into the frame.

I doubt you have even tried. Have you shot action with a GH1? I have:



The camera is not the limiting aspect.

For all cameras, there is a delay between pressing the shutter release and the picture happening. An OVF camera has to swing the mirror out the way before it starts taking the picture, and this takes time. An EVF camera doesn't have this delay.

That's a different, and far less important delay.

It is a very important delay, the same as any other delay between pressing the shutter button, and the picture getting taken. Plus your image is blanked out during this process.

The things that are currently holding back micro four thirds cameras for being DSLR beaters is slightly slower focus lock and less rapid continuous shooting.

It's not slightly, and continuous shooting speed isn't an issue for me.

Slower / slightly slower. Semantics, what are the figures? Who cares, go shoot

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30225435@N00/

 

[Lee Jay]

Whilst there is a minute delay in seeing the image, I sincerely doubt that is the limiting factor for EVF cameras.

This is an absolutely MASSIVE issue for me. It prevents me from getting the subjects into the frame.

I doubt you have even tried. Have you shot action with a GH1?

No. Does it's EVF update at 100fps or 500fps or is it 30fps like all the others I have shot with?

I have:

That's a slow-moving loosely-framed subject shot with a short focal length. Multiply the speed and focal length by ten and get only, say, four times farther away and try it again.

The camera is not the limiting aspect.

On all the EVF cameras and camcorders I've used it is.

For all cameras, there is a delay between pressing the shutter release and the picture happening. An OVF camera has to swing the mirror out the way before it starts taking the picture, and this takes time. An EVF camera doesn't have this delay.

That's a different, and far less important delay.

It is a very important delay, the same as any other delay between pressing the shutter button, and the picture getting taken.

Like I said, getting the shot some milliseconds after I hit the button isn't the problem as long as the subject is actually in the frame. With EVFs and fast-moving subjects, the subject is often hard enough to track that it isn't in the frame.

Plus your image is blanked out during this process.

Not a problem with current mirror blackout times, it is on some EVF-based systems.

The things that are currently holding back micro four thirds cameras for being DSLR beaters is slightly slower focus lock and less rapid continuous shooting.

It's not slightly, and continuous shooting speed isn't an issue for me.

Slower / slightly slower. Semantics, what are the figures?

Try shooting a subject that is moving toward or away from the camera at 10-20 depths-of-field per second, and getting the subject in-focus.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)