D60--The SLR For Dummies

[eml1909]

it never ceases to amaze me how people put down scene modes on
cameras and then have to have exposure bracketing or some other
automatic feature

shoot in manual

• shoot - flip thumbwheel - shoot - flip thumbwhell - shoot

you just bracketed

OK, so please excuse my obvious ignorance but how exactly does AE bracketing work?

When you use AE bracketing, do you "fire" the camera once only, or do you have to take more than one shot of the same image to make it work?

Also, does AE bracketing simply take multiple versions of the same shot (ie multiple shots each with different exposure) which you can then play around with at the pp stage, or does the camera somehow "merge" the different versions automatically into one single image?

I have read the article about AE bracketing but I am still confused!

Perhaps it's time for me to go back to my p&s!

 

[Lictor]

So what if it is? Nothing wrong with that. To me having an SLR is
sort of like driving a car with a 5-speed, or becoming a chef

Errr, you're aware that anywhere except in the USA, even the dumbest human beings are able to driver a 5-speed car, even with several grams of alcohol? It's not like driving a manual shift is a particularly elitist or even impressive feat, most people could do that in their sleep.

As for chefs, you do know that some of them do use microwaves... It seems it's able to provide ideal cooking conditions for foie gras.

To wit: you're taking charge of things and need to learn what f-stops
and ISO values are, or at least try and learn a little about it.

And?

I could use my D300 without knowing anything about that. Actually, that's what my girlfriend does when I let her use it. Likewise, you can be a world famous photographer without bothering about the technique that much. People like Sarah Moon did most of their work on polaroids . Likewise, some photographers do amazing work on $50 cameras.

And, at the opposite, you can know everything you need to know about the science of photography with a D40/D60. It has everything you need: full manual mode, center-weighted measure, manual focus...

Nikon does not make dumbed down cameras. You can always override all the automatisms if you want or need to.

 

[Lictor]

Heck, and yes I've said it 1 million times already it seems, but my
first 35mm SLR was the Nikon EM, which was an entry-level Nikon if
ever there was one. Yes it ditched manual-mode and didn't have
depth-of-field preview or a PC-sync socket, multiple exposure, etc.
Compromises were made for the price point, totally understandable.
But the big selling point I used to hear was how it allowed you
access to all of Nikon's lenses.

Well, you have no problem then... The 50mm will work just as well on the D40 as it did on your EM: in manual focus.
Just like when I use the Lensbaby on the D200, I revert to manual focus.

 

[Kurt Horsley]

--Indeed...don't underestimate the value of that new VR lens. It's nice...especially when it's basically free.
-Kurt Horsley

 

[Lictor]

shoot in manual

• shoot - flip thumbwheel - shoot - flip thumbwhell - shoot

you just bracketed

The only drawback is that it is slow. With AEB, you can just shoot your three photos in half a second on a D200 and have decent chances that they will match for use in HDR even when handheld.

So, yes, AEB is an advanced feature. For regular use, exposure compensation (no need for manual mode) is acceptable.

 

[larrytusaz]

I agree - I bought my D40 so I can learn photography, and I actually
leave it in manual mode perpetually unless handing it to someone. I
don't think I mind the lack of AE bracketing, I bracket manually and
don't have any problems with that.
--
Jamie
D40, 18-55mm, 55-200mm VR
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/Jboschan/

I actually agree. I myself don't miss the lack of AE bracketing, I bracket "on the fly" myself. But some do value the feature, nothing wrong with that.

When I say "simplicity is good," there is this one group I sort of admire. There is this group at Flickr called the "no metering lenses on Nikon DSLRs," I think most of them are D40 shooters (and there is another group called the D40 users group). The respective links are http://www.flickr.com/groups/d40/ and http://www.flickr.com/groups/365610@N21/ .

The latter especially impresses me, what many of them apparently do is take their D40 and AI-era lenses (or even pre-AI lenses) and take great photos with them. They obviously use exposure meters or trial-error and get great photos with them. They seem like the type that simply use the D40 as a serious picture-taking tool and don't worry about gimmicks.

That is not to say that anyone else is being gimmicky necessarily, and the D40 certainly has its limitations. I certainly am not at all asserting, either, that you have to use manual exposure meters and manual-focusing to be a "real" SLR user. But that group, the 2nd one especially, strikes me as the type that doesn't make excuses for not caring about f-stops and ISO values and isn't composed of people who would, for instance, think an 8-megapixel Coolpix is more of a camera than a 6-megapixel D70. They surely don't strike me as the type to run out and buy a D60 because of its "animation mode" nor do they spend a lot of time trying to make use of the "wallpaper" mode of the D40-D40x-D60.

They may own a simplistic D40 and Series-E lenses (some of them), but they learn what they can and don't for "dummy auto" modes to do everything for them. They seem very "purist" in what they do, not the least bit gimmicky (and get great photos as a result), and I really am impressed by that. They sure impress me a lot more than someone that buys a Rebel XT or Nikon D60 because of an animation mode or eschews an SLR that doesn't use the colour LCD for everything.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

 

[larrytusaz]

As for chefs, you do know that some of them do use microwaves... It
seems it's able to provide ideal cooking conditions for foie gras.

Yes, I am sure that they use microwaves to an EXTENT. But surely if you go to a world famous restaurant in Paris or London you're not going to be served Hot Pockets heated at 1:30. And you have to know how to do more than that to be a chef. I think the same thing applies with SLRs.

I could use my D300 without knowing anything about that. Actually,
that's what my girlfriend does when I let her use it.

I personally wouldn't let someone use a D300 I owned if they didn't know what an f-stop was--not even my own wife. If that makes me a jerk, I guess I am. Not saying you're wrong or anything, please understand.

Nikon does not make dumbed down cameras. You can always override
all the automatisms if you want or need to.

Yes, true, but when a company thinks it's more important to put a "wallpaper" mode or an animation mode on an SLR (not a Coolpix) as opposed to an autofocus motor for non AF-S lenses that are still being made, that is most certainly "dumbed down" and very gimmicky. SLRs aren't for the gimmicky, Coolpixes and iPhones are.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

 

[MikeCG]

My immediate reaction when I learned of the D60 was disappointment, in part because it made my prediction of a D80s/x/D90 wrong, but mostly because I was looking forward to the camera I would like to buy: an updated enhanced D80. But on reflection, it makes sense for Nikon to strengthen its hold on the lower end of the DSLR market, where there is a great deal of profit and it has had considerable success, shortly after it had come out with two super high-end DSLRs, the D3 and D300. Hopefully Nikon's next step will be to fil in the middle, with "my" D90. Soon, please.

By the way, I previewed this note carefully and corrected several typos. You guys are really a tough audience and I don't want you to think I can't spel.

 

[Kathryne]

History repeating itself. Didn't you go off on rants like these for months after the D40 was released ... until you bought one yourself.

C'mon Larry, geez. We already know you don't think anyone should be allowed to own an SLR camera unless their completely proficient in their use and that you believe your opinion is the only right and true stance on this issue.

--
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.katscan.smugmug.com

 

[RAL131504]

It needs 75 automatically controlled autofocus points, automatic face detection, automatic bracketing etc, etc, etc. It is definitely not any more geared to dummies than the 40, 50, 70, etc. The average point and shooter will most likely be unsatisfied at least initially when they go to it. I have seen it happen several times personally with folks who bought D70, D50, D40, Canon xti coming from point and shoots being really unsatisfied - they either went back to p&s eventually or took the time to learn how to use the dslr.

 

[larrytusaz]

eml1909 wrote:
[snip]

OK, so please excuse my obvious ignorance but how exactly does AE
bracketing work?

I have read the article about AE bracketing but I am still confused!

Perhaps it's time for me to go back to my p&s!

Someone give this guy a hand, please! Right on!

I say this because this is someone who apparently is willing to LEARN about SLRs and what they mean. He used (and still uses, I guess) a point & shoot but is asking questions trying to LEARN, rather than (apparently) thinking that an SLR of all things is supposed to do everything for you. That is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. If more newbies were like this, maybe we'd have an AF motor in the D40 and D60 rather than a silly wallpaper and animation modes.

"eml1909"--if my observation is off-target, please forgive me if I assumed too much.

Anyway, "eml1909," to answer your question as best I can--I never use this mode, but I can tell you it doesn't take several images and merge them, it takes separate images. The idea is that since sometimes an image looks better a little darker or brighter than what would otherwise result, shooters often will "bracket" by shooting a "straight" shot and then modifying the straight-reading a bit with their settings and take extra shots with these modified settings. This AEB feature helps makes that execution a bit more convenient by automatically taking a "straight" shot first and then typically another 2-shot sequence a certain amount above-below a "straight" reading. You can still bracket manually using manual-mode or exposure compensation, but this feature makes it easier (just remember to turn it off when done).

Someone else I am sure can answer this better than I can, as I never use it--I bracket "on the fly" using exposure compensation.

But again, kudos to this person to ask and inquire and not expect SLRs to do everything for him. All people are different, but more prospective first-time SLR users should be more like this, rather than griping about the lack of movie mode or "ancient black-white LCDs."

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

 

[eml1909]

eml1909 wrote:

I say this because this is someone who apparently is willing to LEARN
about SLRs and what they mean. He used (and still uses, I guess) a
point & shoot but is asking questions trying to LEARN, rather than
(apparently) thinking that an SLR of all things is supposed to do
everything for you. That is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking
about. If more newbies were like this, maybe we'd have an AF motor in
the D40 and D60 rather than a silly wallpaper and animation modes.

Many thanks! No, you are spot on - I am a p&s photographer who is very keen to buy my first DSLR and start learning how to use it properly and to its full potential. I am fully aware that there is LOTS to learn and I am looking forward to starting my "journey" into the DSLR world!!

 

[larrytusaz]

I have seen it happen several times personally
with folks who bought D70, D50, D40, Canon xti coming from point and
shoots being really unsatisfied - they either went back to p&s
eventually or took the time to learn how to use the dslr.

I would actually agree with you. If someone can't figure out why an SLR will enable someone to take better photos, that's fine--I microwave Hot Pockets rather than spend 2 hours over a stove cooking perfection myself, there is no shame in trying to make things easy. The shame would be buying a nice SLR--or a nice chef-oriented type of stove--then going "duh, where's the Hot Pocket button on this thing?" (Or, "why no movie mode?")

Time for me to go to work--good enough, I've posted enough (or too much?) in here already. But I am carrying my Treo 650 with me (haha).

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

 

[David314]

your three photos in half a second on a D200 and have decent chances
that they will match for use in HDR

i maybe wrong about the D200 but for the real experience HDR photographer - people are using bracketing that goes beyond what normal AEB will produces

also, a regular raw image will produce pretty good dynamic range - at for some reason that 10meg sony CCD sensor had extremely good dynamic range in the D40x

there is also now a dedicated d lighting adjustment button - which i take to be adjustment of the dynamic range

David

 

[RickWells]

As for chefs, you do know that some of them do use microwaves... It
seems it's able to provide ideal cooking conditions for foie gras.

Yes, I am sure that they use microwaves to an EXTENT. But surely if
you go to a world famous restaurant in Paris or London you're not
going to be served Hot Pockets heated at 1:30. And you have to know
how to do more than that to be a chef. I think the same thing
applies with SLRs.

I could use my D300 without knowing anything about that. Actually,
that's what my girlfriend does when I let her use it.

I personally wouldn't let someone use a D300 I owned if they didn't
know what an f-stop was--not even my own wife. If that makes me a
jerk, I guess I am. Not saying you're wrong or anything, please
understand.

Nikon does not make dumbed down cameras. You can always override
all the automatisms if you want or need to.

Yes, true, but when a company thinks it's more important to put a
"wallpaper" mode or an animation mode on an SLR (not a Coolpix) as
opposed to an autofocus motor for non AF-S lenses that are still
being made, that is most certainly "dumbed down" and very gimmicky.
SLRs aren't for the gimmicky, Coolpixes and iPhones are.

Maybe, just maybe, those people you look down on so much, simply want the better image quality a DSLR will give them, for whatever reason. Maybe they want better shots of their kids sports games, or whatever. A DSLR can give them that. They don't need to understand everything about photography to do that, the companies build cameras like this one for them. Most of them will never use anything other than the basic zoom lens packaged up with camera, so that AF-S limitation is not so great. Reality is, if you understand the differnce, and have other lens, then very likely this isn;t the camera for you anyway. So why the indignant viewpoint on them? Nikon doesn't want to sell you one of these. Really.

If we all took your viewpoint, we would start requiring photography tests to own a DSLR.

 

[oduncan4]

To Larry, et. al.

Thanks for the references to d40 Flickr sites. They look quite interesting.

I currently use a Pentax dl, and some of the folks at the Pentax blog are even more unhappy with their new options, the k20 and k200. Pentax cameras are very nice, and my dl includes ae bracketing and the ability to meter with virtually every lens Pentax has ever produced. Even my dl is a wonderful camera with good image quality and great simplicity of operation. It does many things very well, but one thing it does very poorly, and that is autofocus in low light.

Most recently, I have miissed shots of my grand-daughter blowing out the candles on her birthday cake, giving her father a hug and a great look, shaking hands with Hillary Clinton (I live in Iowa) that I can never get back.

When I, and others, complain about this we are told to learn to focus manually, to quit whining, and to go to Nikon if we want fast focusing. So I am looking at Nikon.

As many of you have noted, Nikon has put me in a hard spot, inentionally and profitably, I think. Should I buy a d40 for about $500, a d40x for $600, or spend a thousand for a D80 that will autofocus old lenses?

Is the D80 worth twice as much as the d40? Is its 18-135 lens as good at 18-55 as the d40's 18-55? Is the d80 that much quicker? Is its image quality that much better? Is the d40 reliable in low light? Thanks for any help.

And appreciate the fact that for all your differences of opinion, no one seems to be saying shut up or get out.

Owen Duncan

 

[larrytusaz]

Maybe, just maybe, those people you look down on so much, simply want
the better image quality a DSLR will give them, for whatever reason.

That is fine, but then, they need to learn how to use one or at least try like that one "eni1098" guy (or whatever his user name is, don't see it on my screen at the moment).

Maybe they want better shots of their kids sports games, or whatever.
A DSLR can give them that. They don't need to understand everything
about photography to do that, the companies build cameras like this
one for them.

They also build Coolpixes and Powershots for them, too.

Most of them will never use anything other than the
basic zoom lens packaged up with camera, so that AF-S limitation is
not so great.

Yes, but Canon doesn't do this, neither does Pentax--and before the D40 Nikon didn't either, not even in their "soccer mom" cameras like the EM or N55.

If we all took your viewpoint, we would start requiring photography
tests to own a DSLR.

I wouldn't deem that by law they should be, but a sense of responsibility sure ought to make someone at least try and learn all they can rather than expecting dummy-modes to do it all for them. That's all I am saying--that, and that putting a wallpaper mode and animation mode when non AF-S compatibility could've been done instead is just silly.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

 

[jboschan]

I agree - I bought my D40 so I can learn photography, and I actually
leave it in manual mode perpetually unless handing it to someone. I
don't think I mind the lack of AE bracketing, I bracket manually and
don't have any problems with that.
--
Jamie
D40, 18-55mm, 55-200mm VR
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/Jboschan/

I actually agree. I myself don't miss the lack of AE bracketing, I
bracket "on the fly" myself. But some do value the feature, nothing
wrong with that.

I agree on that.

When I say "simplicity is good," there is this one group I sort of
admire. There is this group at Flickr called the "no metering lenses
on Nikon DSLRs," I think most of them are D40 shooters (and there is
another group called the D40 users group). The respective links are
http://www.flickr.com/groups/d40/ and
http://www.flickr.com/groups/365610@N21/ .

Thanks for the links.

The latter especially impresses me, what many of them apparently do
is take their D40 and AI-era lenses (or even pre-AI lenses) and take
great photos with them. They obviously use exposure meters or
trial-error and get great photos with them. They seem like the type
that simply use the D40 as a serious picture-taking tool and don't
worry about gimmicks.

That is not to say that anyone else is being gimmicky necessarily,
and the D40 certainly has its limitations. I certainly am not at all
asserting, either, that you have to use manual exposure meters and
manual-focusing to be a "real" SLR user. But that group, the 2nd one
especially, strikes me as the type that doesn't make excuses for not
caring about f-stops and ISO values and isn't composed of people who
would, for instance, think an 8-megapixel Coolpix is more of a camera
than a 6-megapixel D70. They surely don't strike me as the type to
run out and buy a D60 because of its "animation mode" nor do they
spend a lot of time trying to make use of the "wallpaper" mode of the
D40-D40x-D60.

They may own a simplistic D40 and Series-E lenses (some of them), but
they learn what they can and don't for "dummy auto" modes to do
everything for them. They seem very "purist" in what they do, not the
least bit gimmicky (and get great photos as a result), and I really
am impressed by that. They sure impress me a lot more than someone
that buys a Rebel XT or Nikon D60 because of an animation mode or
eschews an SLR that doesn't use the colour LCD for everything.

Yeah, I think its really cool that there are people so devoted to that. I would like to be that kind of photographer, or at least some of the time. I want to learn how to use the camera well on all-manual, and once I've got it down, then maybe I'll use A or S mode or even P mode sometimes, but I think I'd rather work from harder to easier, than the other way around. I also look forward to using some lenses that will be MF only on my D40, as it will force me to learn to do it right.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)

--
Jamie
D40, 18-55mm, 55-200mm VR
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/Jboschan/

 

[Greg Henry]

Well, it's obvious that Nikon is caving in to pressure to make d-SLRs
for idiots

Yes it will make Nikon money but I still say--why accomodate these
embicles? What they need is a Coolpix. If they can't work an SLR they
shouldn't buy one.

I believe it's comments like this that give the Nikon forum the reputation it has in the other forums. Wow - how arrogant.

Every camera manufacturer makes cameras on every level, from complete NOVICE (not "idiot") to Professional. Just about every camera maker who now makes DSLRs are also making entry-level DSLR models as well, for those who want the speed and image quality of a DSLR, as well as those who from the ground up, wish to learn how to use one. How exactly does one learn to use a DSLR with a cheap Coolpix? Did YOU pop out of your mother's legs with the full knowledge of DSLR use? I doubt it.

If you don't like the new entry models - it's very simply for even the simple minded who get bent out of shape over it - DON'T BUY ONE. Why take the time to complain in a forum about models that have nothing to do with your interest level or supposed level of knowledge and experience, or for that matter, insult those who would buy that model by calling them "idiots" and "embicles"?

Would you like some food with that whine?

 

[Daniel]

While you are part of a number of people who seem truly annoyed with the D60, I am one of those who are getting increasingly ticked off about all this bellyachiing. All one can read these days is what a bunch of boneheads Nikon are for not including this, that, or the other feature. Just don't buy it if you don't like it! It's obvious from your posts that you want or need features that the D40 and D60 don't have; fine, all that means is that you are not part of the target market for these cameras, not that those whose needs are addressed by D40s and D60s are dummies.

Clearly, you need (want?) a D80, a D200, a D300, D3, or whatever model has the features you crave. Oh, I see, all these are too expensive for you? Well, then, if Canon has what you want at price you can afford, or Pentax, or Sony, or whatever, sell your Nikon gear and get whatever thrills you. You are not THE customer Nikon uses to decide what camera to come out with (thank God for small favors!), and not everybody whose interests and desires are different from yours is mentally deficient.

Before you say it, yes, you definitely are entitled to voice your opinion. Just kkeep in mind that this is all I'm doing, too.

Daniel