The size is mostly to accommodate a huge battery, just like most flagship cameras for many years. The Sony a1 was a bit of an anomaly that way...you have to attach a separate battery grip to it.

Mirrorless cameras have certainly come a long way in terms of battery life, but they still aren't as good as DSLRs because it takes power to operate an electronic viewfinder. So, that big battery is even more necessary for a mirrorless camera in heavy use.

The larger pro bodies with integrated battery grip have other nice advantages: many feel they have the best type of grip, and that they balance better with the larger super tele lenses that are often used with them.

The larger body style also enables what many feel is a better control layout, and overall more durability, There are already many videos of the Z9 being subjected to harsh use and environments and handling it with ease.

As to the battery, those who have used the Z9 are reporting literally thousands of shots per battery charge, and also the advertised two hours of 8K recording. So right now it seems as if the Z9 battery life is the best of all mirrorless.

The Z9 is a larger body than most mirrorless, but if you hold one it may surprise you: it doesn't feel that heavy or large. The design and weight distribution makes it a very pleasant experience.

The thing with the size and the market is, you said the market it is aimed at doesn't seem to care. That is not true, it does care a lot. Many pros are completely unwilling to buy a small camera because it is so hard to work with them.
When Nikon introduced the D800, and it was clear there will be no more successor to the D3x or at Canon no more to the 1Ds series a lot of pros, even studio photographers were upset because they don't like the small body format. I am one of that folks too, for private life, holidays and so on yes I absolutely love a small camera. But for work, never ever, it's such a pain to work with these small bodies, very bad ergonomics, weak batteries and either crippled electronics or overheating issues. The later ironically only became a problem with mirrorless, they draw way more power and need to distribute that heat. See the issues Sony and Canon had with cameras shutting down because of overheating.

@lauma that was actually my point, the pros won’t care about a bigger body. I agree with what your saying. That said, it still seems to me that Nikon and Canon are still designing cameras like it’s 1999.

@lauma: you bring up a good point. Most pro's and serious hobbyists own more than one camera. And most have a smaller camera for personal use, like going to Disney or the beach with the family.

So if one really considers the nature of their photography and their use cases, the larger size of the pro bodies is really not so much of a problem.

Many who criticize these pro bodies as being too large have never used one, and are imagining the use case as more of a personal one, for holidays, theme parks, family trips, etc. But for those who own these cameras, they almost always have other gear for that.

@attomole

You're probably assuming that the vote was open - it wasn't - it was between 6 products - 2 Nikon, 3 Sony and 1 Tamron - which is only available in Sony mount.

So unless you think all the Canon shooters abstained and didn't vote this year, the Z9 is just a factional pawn.

@RubberDials, this vote was a second one - containing all the top votes of the first one that featured many more options - Canon among them.

Narrowing down the selections. It even says so in the introduction.

@Flowchart

I know that, but the polling still indicates factional voting, unless you think there are many more Nikon users than Canon and Sony.

According to market share, Canon should have had a finalist product here. Maybe the products that won seem to be the best among voters.

To the OP: Why? The Z9 has shipped; there are many happy user posts in online forums and social media.

More is coming; in fact in mid January.

All new products are hard to come by; it's the nature of the business right now.

Let me put it a little differently then. It is interesting that a product is being put to the vote that is not even a product, that is not even on the market. And yet many people choose it. For me, that makes it a bit frivolous. Just because it's expensive and a big brand.

Which of these products is not on the market? If you are referring to the winner, the Z9, it is "on the market." One can order it. Some units have shipped to happy customers and more are on the way.

It is as much "on the market" as any other product.

@Mateus1
I would like to correct your sentence saying " I would like to think that most Sony fanboys are really angry that majority of people have chosen Z9 best camera of the Year"
I am sure, like mferencz said above, you would like such idea. The Z9 seem to be a fantastic camera (seems to because very few have had the luck to use it and none of it has been done directly against its competitors). Nevertheless I am pretty sure that for most Sony users the weight and size of the Z9 is a non starter, so product of the year or not is pretty irrelevant.
Nevertheless, imo considering the product and its price the Z9 deserves it, even if I shoot with an A1 and I still prefer it over the Z9.

@Mateus1

The Z9, whilst not being quite a grace-and-favour product almost certainly uses the A1 sensor or a variant of it. The camera has not been reviewed by DPR but we already know that it's behind the A1 in DR and the AF is 'competitive' but not better.

In terms of specs (which we are often told don't matter, but actually do) it has less resolution, fewer AF points, lower FPS, a smaller EVF, slower flash sync, no SD card slot and a less versatile form factor.

On the plus side it has a slightly more versatile rear screen (but not S1h versatile) illuminated buttons and the promise of 8K/60 with a future FW update.

To Nikon users who hate Sony for their brattishness in taking the number 2 slot from them it seems like the beginning of a fightback. To Canon users it's a chance to tarnish the A1, whilst not having a product in that segment themselves. That's it in a nutshell.

I think it's a shame, because the R3 is actually a greater achievement than the Z9, by a fair distance.

BTW, here's a review by a photographer who has used the A1 extensively, titled:

Nikon Z9 Review: It Makes Other Cameras Feel Like Antiques

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/07/nikon-z9-review-it-makes-other-cameras-feel-like-antiques/

BTW, add to the advantages of the Z9 over A1: better user experience on EVF, longer battery life, and just plain better, more professional feel....and there's that cool 120 fps 11MP mode, which in certain instances can be useful.

I haven't used the R3 yet, but I do agree that it's a great achievement, esp the eye control AF, which most users really love. That could in the long run establish a new standard for mirrorless cameras.

@RubberDials the Z9 most likely does not use a variant of the A1 sensor: its imager is likely not made by Sony

And even if it does come out of Sony's chip fab, it is still custom designed by Nikon. It's still a Nikon sensor.. or is the Apple M1 not an Apple because the SoC behind it is made by TSMC versus in-house by Apple themselves..?

There is this oddity among some Sony promoters...that if another company does something good, they have to explain it away by attributing it to Sony anyway...for example, saying that the sensor is made by Sony.

We saw this in the case of the Canon R3, and now the Nikon Z9.

The implication is that only Sony can do anything of merit. it's almost like a cult, or propaganda for a dictator, where everything good has be attributed to the central authority.

And in this case, even the term "grace and favour" is used...which implies royalty giving something away as a "grace and favour." So the implication is that Sony would have done Nikon a favor by creating the sensor for them.

Of course that's laughable. The reality is that Nikon with their Z9 created a great product and has overshadowed Sony. Some can't deal with that very well.

And Canon makes their own sensors, unless the R3 is an exception.

"There is this oddity among some Sony promoters" is an interesting bit of insinuation. It toes the line by its use of 'some' while suggesting that there are a lot of these people - it also echoes back to the same poster's constant accusations back when the original R and Zs were released, that anyone who said anything positive about Sony was a paid shill.
Yes the Z9 is a great product. No it isn't 'all in good fun':
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9828108143/dpreview-readers-choice-awards-product-of-the-year?comment=2341607955

"here's a review by a photographer who has used the A1 extensively, titled:
Nikon Z9 Review: It Makes Other Cameras Feel Like Antiques
https://petapixel.com/2022/01/07/nikon-z9-review-it-makes-other-cameras-feel-like-antiques/"
I think your facts might be a bit soft here: The mention of the A1 next to the headline seems to insinuate that the Z9 makes the A1 feel like an antique. However, if you read the article the reviewer actually says "going back to shooting with my Z6 II feels like stepping back in time 10 years and shooting with an antique"; he then retracts a bit as the Z6ii is still highly capable. Note that writers don't necessarily write their own headlines. He appears to rate both the A1 and R3 as viable alternatives, but points out the price advantage and recommends the Z9 to any Nikon shooter.

Canon make their own large sensors, they have been known to use bought in sensors on smaller cameras - not sure whose sensors they use in the current 1" compacts.

@Bob Janes: I stated it accurately: some Sony promoters do have a tendency to try to attribute anything good by a non-Sony brand in the camera industry to Sony. I used the qualifier "some" because I can't provide an actual numerical count or percentage.

An example: when Canon came out with the R3, there were quite a few Sony fans on this and other discussions who insisted that Sony had to have been the one to make that stacked sensor for Canon. Even after Canon publicly stated that the sensor was designed and manufactured by Canon, some Sony fans continued to repeat the assertion that it was all Sony. Some Sony fans couldn't accept that another company could come up with their own stacked sensor, even though one of the core technologies is licensed even by Sony from fanother third party company.

Another example: many times a Sony fan will suggest that all of the advancements by other brands in mirrorless are due to competition with Sony.

No, you did not 'state accurately' you insinuated.
Who (apart from Rubberdials in a recent post) has ever suggested that Canon use sony sensors in their large sensor cameras? You say quite a few, so you must be able to name them off the top of your head...
Now, even if you had 5 names - does that really consitiutute 'quite a few' given the population of Sony users on DPR?
Put the poison away, it is not 'all in good fun'.
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9828108143/dpreview-readers-choice-awards-product-of-the-year?comment=2341607955

@Bob Janes: Please...you are simply trying to read words into what I actually wrote.

There have been many who suggested that Canon used a Sony stacked sensor in the R3. I certainly don't memorize their names and I am not going to do research for you and dig back into the mud.

But the rumor got so persistent that some YTers and photo gear sites ran with it, and Canon had to issue a statement of clarification, something they rarely do. So if it got the attention of Canon, it was more than just one person.

@Thoughts: Your posting style relies on people reading stuff into what you write and I think you know that.

You introduced the Canon sensor thing here as if it was Sony users from this community who had created this rumour. You provided no evidence to back that insinuation up. I looked up the Canon clarification and from an article on PentaPixel it looked like it was sparked by journalists trying to truffle out a non-story* based on some mis-wording on a Canon website – nothing to do with any Sony ‘promoter’, here or on YouTube.

*There is interdependence between most companies. Nikon are highly involved in photo-lithographic etching for chips and Canon were responsible for fabricating most of the sensor fabrication machines. Canon pioneered CMOS technology and our sensors would not be as good as they are without them – they are allowed a bit of take as well as give without criticism wherever they do buy in parts or get another company to produce something for them.

@RD. Quite right, I'd misread your post. Apologies - I was angry with someone at the time (which is not intended to excuse myself for the slight, just to explain why I screwed up).

Come on, it's all in good fun. It's like debating sports with other fans.

And please, let's not compare it to using knives...that's a bit overdramatic.

No it is not good fun.
It is vile and poisonous and encourages people to be rude and disrespectful towards those they see as different. It normalises conflict in an environment that has so much potential to educate, help and bring people together. It is a wasted opportunity; an abuse of community.
If anyone finds the comparison to knives as over-dramatic they are unaware of the effect of social media on mental health. Cyber-bullying is a serious problem for our young people (and some of our old people too).
btw: The Z9 looks like a great camera and a worthy winner - I don't shoot Nikon, but it is good to see them pushing the envelope particularly regarding value for money at the top end.

Thoughts are us. Look at you all. All is right in the world and on Dpreview. Your horse the Z9 won. If the A1 would have won you'd have had the sling blade out carving with your mix of soft hate and soft facts.

Nikon have mostly deserved the negative perceptions that have swirled around them for the last few years. Nikon 1, Nikon Keymission, very late to mirrorless, then subsequently poor autofocus, 58mm Noct.
This year they’re finally back to the standard for bodies that they were producing for their DSLRs. Funnily enough if you make stuff that’s good and people would like to buy you get positive potential customer sentiment.

Who’s Tony?

ohh, you are talking about "Sony Northup"...

@George Agree with all that, except: "The only reason we get new cameras today is because companies need new sales."

I mean, this was always true. The sales imperative has always driven technical innovation, it's just that the technical superiority of newer cameras has got increasingly marginal. I think you're right that for the great majority of shots people take we've all had the ability to do that for many years, I just think newer cameras make it easier to do it successfully with a lower failure rate, e.g. with smarter AF, and perhaps with a greater perception of ease. These are things that enhance the experience of photography, but not the art or the end result (except for a few fewer missed opportunities).

The whole thing reminds me of reading Mean Machines magazine in the early 90s when I was a young teenager. The letters page was always full of vitriol against either Sega or Nintendo's products, depending of course on whether the writer had a Megadrive or Super Nintendo. Even back then it struck me as very immature and insecure.

@BackToNature1 From what I read he doesn't do that at all, just rightly bemoans the way it leads people to argue bitterly about which camera is the best and turn their current camera brand into part of their personal identity, neither of which are good things.

@mikegt: LOL. No not at all. All one has to do is read and see who is making the most noise.

I think some Sony fans have a problem because of the way they were attracted into the Sony system. In marketing, usually what brings a customer in will determine their future expectations and whether they stay or go.

With Sony the lure was all about having the most advanced tech, and along with that, winning awards, etc. But now that they are not the most advanced in everything for mirrorless, some Sony fans can't deal with that.

With most brands, their loyalty goes beyond winning the tech spec wars, and also includes appreciation of the brand's handling, ergonomic, user experience, and long brand history of reliability and quality, But you never hear much about how a Sony user really enjoys their gear so much. The loyalty can be tissue thin.

So when a product like the Z9 comes it challenges their preconceived notions.

TRU:

Spewing your anti-Sony venom as usual, on an article about a Nikon product; something you are always complaining about other people doing with other brands. A 500-posts-per-month rabid Super Troll certainly has no right to complain about what anyone else is posting here, or to complain about how other folks are being partisan.

For example, I have read hundreds of posts written by satisfied Sony owners who really enjoy their cameras; but you can't see them because it doesn't make sense in your excuse for a brain that anyone could enjoy using something made by a company that you hate so much.

@mikegt: Mike, you don't get it. I and the others wouldn't say a peep about Sony if you Sony guys didn't come into these discussions about other brands and trash talk.

We really don't care about Sony and would want to leave Sony out of the discussion. Why aren't you hanging out in forums with other happy Sony users talking about how happy you are? Geesh.

Goodness I wish comments threads weren't full of this. The first in my feed right now refers to Nikon "putting an (sic) smack down" on its critics.

The whole world doesn't have to exist in this drive-by ego jousting mode. Nor do we have to retreat to some sort of insular brand-loyal condition in order to just flipping follow photography.

It's sad.

Yes, Tony N actually did that. But that gives you an idea of how much he makes from his YT channel. It's that important for him to keep providing gear reviews and stay up to date, like other YTers who've been loaned Z9's or found a way to buy one at MSRP.

And let's face it: he can always write the expense of the camera off as a business expense. And if he doesn't want to keep it after the review, he can always resell it for probably about what he paid for it. So it would be a cheap rental at that point.

The sad thing is that he probably won't really take the time to learn to use the camera correctly.

Actual Sales that Sold on ebay of the Nikon Z9 are 2 at $12,000. 1 at $12,400. and $12,600.
Not sold asking $20,000. + $519.70 Shipping and $12,500. Seller has a feed back score of '0'.

519 for shipping . That’s funny.

@TRU: "The sad thing is that he probably won't really take the time to learn to use the camera correctly."

Perhaps, but then this is a potential pitfall of any early review. Although how many weeks should it take someone to get to know a camera enough to be able to give it a fair review?

@Thoughts R Us

Come on man, everybody knows you haven't been anywhere near the Z9 or the 100-400 lens. If you had you would have posted pictures of it on here.

Just like you don't know all the A9, A1 and R5 users you're always talking about anecdotally. I've worked in creative industries my whole life and I only know two photographers well. Even when I was a member of a camera club no-one had the very latest gear.

And it's not difficult to understand why you keep mentioning that you haven't handled the R3. You wouldn't be able to do your standard X- good/Y-bad comparison if there was a third body in the mix.

You're as transparent as glass.

@RubberDials: feeling a bit paranoid, are we?

I don't care if you believe me or not, but I did get to try out a Z9 at my local camera store.

It's not my thing to post those pics; people like you would have just found something to criticize.

But please, you humor is pretty funny.

Here comes (AGAIN) the Sony police to troll... What a surprise!

You're the troll Foskito, look what you just posted at the top of this thread:
"The Sony boys really can't take a defeat 😂"

I've never posted something so inflammatory (or juvenile) on here. You do it all the time.

Rubber, I am just pointing a fact.

mikeran, mikegt (probably the same person), zxaar and you keep hijacking posts to point how awesome your sony is and attacking anyone who does not share your shill. It happens with every single article.

@RubberDials: "I've never posted something so inflammatory (or juvenile) on here. "

Yet you literally in this thread accused me of lying about my own experiences and then tried to do some weird psychoanalysis on me. That to me is pretty inflammatory and juvenile.

Everyone can see through you and some of the other Sony promoters. In reality you shouldn't really even be in these discussions of gear you don't care about and just seek to poison the well.

@Foskito

No, you're not pointing out a fact, you're gaslighting Sony users like you always do, whilst trolling Sony with the usual cheap remarks like I pointed out above.

You literally wrote ""The Sony boys really can't take a defeat 😂" 4 minutes after calling me a troll. You're utterly insincere. I supported you over offensive Hiroshima comments that were made some time ago but you're actually not a nice or genuine person.

@RubberDials: Are you going to apologize to me for accusing me of lying?

Because otherwise your comment ""I've never posted something so inflammatory (or juvenile) on here" is the one that is a lie.

@Thoughts R Us

Using my own metaphors against me doesn't work because I'm not you. I'm the opposite of you. You chuck crap at Sony, I clear it off. That's not promotion, it's housekeeping.

I don't do it for Sony - they don't care about me, I do it because I love this site and I don't want astroturfers like you to ruin it.

@RubberDials: you are evading my question. You openly accused me of outright lying and then proclaimed that you have "never posted something so inflammatory (or juvenile) on here".

I am waiting for an apology.

Note that accusing someone of lying is not the same as disagreeing with them. You can disagree all you want. But you literally, without foundation, accused me of lying.

"Thoughts R Us - I am waiting for an apology."

Narcissism 101!
Boy, seek career in politics! You have everything!

@Thoughts: The waiting for an apology thing comes over a bit rich from someone who posted not 5 days ago "sure one can take that glass half full view of Sony consumer bodies..but it wouldn't be true". This comment and its insinuation of lying annoyed me intensely at the time (and remember that trying to annoy people is something we are not supposed to do on this site), but I figured that people were unlikely to be influenced by your insinuation that I'd said something that was not true.
Should I be expecting an apology?

@Rubberdials: "You chuck crap at Sony, I clear it off. That's not promotion, it's housekeeping. I don't do it for Sony - they don't care about me, I do it because I love this site and I don't want astroturfers like you to ruin it."
Problem is that if you garnish correcting the misleading statements with pejoratives or barbs back, you allow people to hook on those and your original good points get obscured. Apologies for repeating myself as I think we have had this conversation before. Always remember the old maxim that there is no point in wrestling a hog, you just get as mired as the hog and the hog enjoys it.

@BobJanes: The comment that you referred to..."sure one can take that glass half full view of Sony consumer bodies..but it wouldn't be true"...was not me trying to insinuate any degree of dishonesty, but simply being incorrect. I did think that would be obvious in context, but yes, I will apologize to you if you felt insulted in that way.

My statement could just as easily have read "sure one can take that glass half full view of Sony consumer bodies..but it wouldn't be CORRECT". Also, again, if it's not obvious, that is my opinion, so I could even have posted "sure one can take that glass half full view of Sony consumer bodies..but it wouldn't be CORRECT, IMHO".

But that's a big difference from @RubberDials literally accusing me of lying about something like actually being able to have tried out a Z9 at my local camera store, which shouldn't even be controversial, as many have been able to do that exact same thing.

@Rubber,

come on, we are talking cameras here, that incident was WAY beyond any kind of decency or humanity, and I appreciate your support, this is just fun and you know it.

the r3 gins up fake d.r. by using permanent noise reduction across the entire iso range, which lowers resolution, you can't have both at once, thank goodness the a1 and z9 don't do that.

after using the wonderful a9 ever since 2017, i was glad to have 2x more pixels with the a1, it's a solid improvement in both p.q. and cropping ability.

i have zero need for eye control af in the sports i shoot, but i would like to see it for video, which canon has not done with the r3.

@milcman: LOL. Wow...the R3 is so bad that pro's are using it across the world to capture some really great images.

You really can't help yourself, can you? You can't accept that some products from some companies may be superior in some ways to Sony products.

@mikegt

The sensor of the Z9 is not original Sony, but designed by Nikon and manufactured by Tower it seems

Technically, the R3's sensor does not have more dynamic range than either the a1 or Z9; it has less. It measures as having more dynamic range using the methodology used by photonstophotos.net (or the methodology we use where we divide saturation by read noise where SNR is 1, or 0 depending on who you ask) because Canon is applying irreversible noise reduction to all its Raws, at all ISOs. This of course comes at the cost of detail & contrast, particularly in low contrast shadows.

Of course you could just as easily apply such noise reduction to the Nikon or Sony files to achieve higher measured DR. Hence, ultimately, the Nikon Z9 and Sony A1 have more flexible sensors, both in terms of dynamic range and resolution.

The R3 gets even worse in e-shutter mode. Here's a comparison of dynamic range of the R3 vs. A1 vs. Z7 II vs a7R IV, all in E-shutter mode save for the a7R IV (which has the same performance in mech & e-shutter).

The R3 is the noisiest & softest.

@Rishi Sanyal
thank you for the clarification. I was aware of the clear difference between m-shutter and e-shutter, but not so about the noise reduction implications. Anything to do also with its excellent low light performance as described on DXO review?

> The sensor of the Z9 is not original Sony, but designed by Nikon and
> manufactured by Tower it seems

I have been unable to find any official announcement regarding this; the info shows up only on rumor sites. You would think that either Nikon and/or Tower Semiconductor would be boasting about it, if it was true.

Nikon seldom, if ever, discloses who manufactures its sensors.

@Thoughts R Us

"@milcman: LOL. Wow...the R3 is so bad that pro's are using it across the world to capture some really great images.

You really can't help yourself, can you? You can't accept that some products from some companies may be superior in some ways to Sony products."

I thought MILC man made a perfectly reasonable point, and Rishi's post seems to confirm that. He didn't say anything of the sort that it isn't a perfectly capable pro camera, he merely challenged someone on their opinion that it should have topped this poll based on factors including its DR.

@Vignes The R3 was included, it came 3rd in the best camera category so it didn't make it through to the vote for best product.

> Nikon seldom, if ever, discloses who manufactures its sensors.

So then we have no way to tell who is making the sensor in the Z9. There are many reports that Sony does make the sensor used in the Nikon Z7, and Sony clearly has the ability to make a full-frame high-resolution stacked sensor since their A1 uses one. Tower Semiconductor did claim they made a one-inch stacked sensor for industrial applications, but they have not announced making a full-frame stacked sensor. Chip manufacturing difficulty seems to go up exponentially with chip size, so successfully making a 1" stacked sensor does not automatically mean they can make a full-frame one. Therefore the available evidence would seem to point to the Z9 sensor coming from Sony rather than Tower. It would be nice of course if Nikon actually told us who is making the sensor.

Almost the same as you Simon as a Canon fan but I fell in love with Nikon when Nikon had the D850 and D500 Canon just couldn't compete at that point. Sure the 1d series I've had a soft spot for was still there but it wasn't enough. I'm all over this Z9 instead of the R3. The R3 in my opinion was the R1 Canon just wasn't ready for the competition when A1 and Z9 was announced so they just carried on and renamed it to R3. Certainly Canon needs a price rethink especially UK.

"Shutterless" is in my opinion overblown marketing hype. The scan speed is practically the same so only real difference over the A1 is the lack option for 1/400 and 1/500 flash synch which is a disadvantage for the Z9. And technically it still has a mechanical shutter, it is just that it is useless for photography.

Both cameras do HSS which is what most will use anyway with flash. Mech shutter no longer needed.

Nikon had the courage to make that change and now others will follow. When the other brands have followed no one will miss the mech shutter.

yes, "shutterless" is nothing more than marketing hype, since all stacked sensor bodies can be used without the shutter... the only thing "shutterless" does is lower the price a bit, with severe penalty loss of 1/400th-1/500th flash sync capability.

working pros list the advantages of fast a1 sync: https://alphauniverse.com/stories/alpha-1-why-fast-flash-sync-matters

the z9 is apparently lacking high-frequency flicker correction, which could be a problem for sports shooters in stadiums with led lighting.

canon and sony both have it, nikon needs to add it in a firmware update, but afaik they haven't addressed the issue.

Boy, the Sony people are really angry that the Z9 is garnering so much attention and awards.

Thoughts R Us: "I don't think we are headed unambiguously into a world where every camera has to be that small." With all respect, I think humanity's tolerance for big-without-reason is quickly going to zero. The Z9 is frighteningly close to the dimensions of my B&J 4x5", and going forward I don't see people accepting anything being way bigger than it needs to be... in other words, a decade from now, I predict cameras the size of the Z9 will have 4x5" sensors.

" With all respect, I think humanity's tolerance for big-without-reason is quickly going to zero. "

I guess that's why large SUV's and trucks continue to sell so well. I see plenty of people with large homes, large watches, etc...they don't all need them.

People are diverse and have diverse wants/needs WRT to the size of their products.

You may be right that cameras the size of the Z9 will have a larger sensor a decade from now. I wouldn't be surprised to that happen as camera companies and the people who buy dedicated cameras continue to go upscale.

But that doesn't mean that some people won't prefer the larger camera body no matter what.

One size does not fit all.

@Thoughts R Us - "I guess that's why large SUV's and trucks continue to sell so well"

i think not, europe for example has definitely not embraced the porky giant suv truck trend, in fact you can't even officially buy an f150 in europe.

there is no question that camera sizes went up with dslrs and now they are going back down, more like where 35mm film bodies were back in the day.

but more importantly, smartphones are much smaller than ilc, and smartphones own the camera market.

"Both cameras do HSS which is what most will use anyway with flash. Mech shutter no longer needed."

HSS is not the same as flash synch and will typically result in uneven lightening (some degree of banding depending on the flash´s performance and shutter speed), The point of flash synch is that the flash fires while the entire sensor is exposed and contributes evenly all over the frame.

"Mech shutter no longer needed."
That is not anymore true now than it was back at A1 launch. Z9 brings nothing new here.

I haven't seen banding on Nikon HSS images. I believe the electronic shutter can be controlled much more accurately than mechanical shutter. If there is a problem, then it is because of incompatible flash lights.

The difference between 1/250s and 1/400 is only 2/3 stop so not much difference in real life, especially when shooting in studio with strobos only where sync speed doesn't matter much. And if you need stop movement combined with ambient light, 1/400 isn't enough either.

> those reasons I prefer the Z9.

You prefer the Z9 because of your endless obsessive hatred of Sony. Which therefore makes your opinion basically worthless, since Sony could make the most perfect camera in the world and you would still hate it because it came from Sony.

@mikegt: Well, others agree with me re the ergonomics and handling of the Z9.

Carrey Rose of DPR:
"...providing an experience a cut above even the likes of the Sony a1"
"...when I used the Sony a1 after the Nikon Z9 for actual shooting, I was underwhelmed."
"With the Z9, what you see when you first look through it is what you get. No resolution changes, no hiccups, no jolting."

Rishi Sanya of DPR:
"And the Z9: far more desirable to use in the field than a Sony a1."

Say what you will about me, but I'm not the only one.

> Carrey (sp) Rose & Rishi Sanya

How about providing links to these alleged comments so we can see them in context ?

> others agree with me re the ergonomics and handling of the Z9.

You are missing the point as usual. The question is not whether or not the Z9 has better ergonomics and handling than the A1, which is debatable due to the heavy weight of the Z9 versus the A1. The question is whether you would ever say that ANY Sony camera is superior - and the answer is no, because you hate the company itself. All of your endless "X is better than the Sony version" statements come from this bias.

@mikegt: And you are not biased? Please.

TRU - SECOND REQUEST: How about providing links to these alleged comments so we can see them in context ?

Your tendency to run away from threads when confronted with questions you don't want to answer is very cowardly of you.

@mikegt: I and others have posted that info elsewhere. Do your own research. There's this wonderful tool called "Search."

And I really don't care if you believe me or not.

I'm not here to respond to your every request. Grow up.

> really don't care if you believe me or not.

Then why do you keep replying to my posts ?

I took your advice and did a search, and found as I suspected that you took Cary's quote out of context. When Mr. Rose said going back to the A1 was "underwhelming", he was not referring to the camera as a whole, but rather the A1's EVF, which he felt was "underwhelming" because during focusing it apparently drops in resolution and the Z9 doesn't do that.

What you shamefully left out was that Mr. Rose also then went on to criticize the EVF of the Canon R3 as well (see https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4210565040/shooting-experience-the-nikon-z9-is-the-most-dslr-like-mirrorless-we-ve-ever-seen).

As for Rishi Sanya's comment, I could not find it in a search; but knowing you, I'm sure it was also taken out of context as well.

As many others have pointed-out to you, you are a very dishonest debater.

@mikegt
The quote from Rishi that you are looking for is in the comnents section of the Nikon 100-400 review. You need to read the whole thread to understand the context of his quote and his other comments. But basically he was saying that overall he found the Z9 a better shooting experience than the A1. Thats not to say that he thinks its technically superior to the A1 as he also rebutted a claim of af inaccuracy in the A1 in the same comment.
The point here is that as cameras at this level are so close in performance, user experience matters and will become even more important going forward.

@mikegt: who's taking who out of context?

I mentioned that I was talking about the handling and ergonomics of the Z9 vs the A1. Last I checked that included the EVF...and the VF is the most used UI on most cameras.
Cary's quotes are indeed about the EVF user experience, which is a big part of the overall user experience. So my point stands...regarding UX, Z9 >> A1.

I will leave it to you to find Rishi's quote in the comments...I and others have even linked to it. I know you can do it.

> he was saying that overall he found the Z9 a better
> shooting experience than the A1.

I found the relevant thread. Rishi never said the above, which makes your version a lie. All he actually said was that he thought the Z9 was "more desirable to use in the field" with no further explanation as to why. We can guess that he might of been referring to his impression that the Z9 may be more rugged due to its size and weight, or he could be talking about the lighted buttons which are handy at night "in the field".

You also forgot to mention the compliments Rishi paid the A1 in the same thread, such as the following:

Our repeated testing found that Sony's Eye AF is particularly good at focusing on eyes and not front-focusing on eyelashes. The A1 and Nikon can calculate re-focus at 120 Hz while Canon (R3) is limited to 60Hz.

The Sony A1 review written by Carey Rose, Richard Butler and Rishi Sanyal said this about the ergonomics & handling of the Sony A1:

Solid ergonomics; good balance of external controls and compact size. Excellent build quality, extremely customizable, responsive, polished interface, menus and a truly excellent viewfinder.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a1-review

Really mikegt?
You don't equate "more desirable to use in the field" as a better shooting experience?
And you might want to reread what I posted above, I did say that Rishi rebutted a comment about the af accuracy of the A1, which was a direct reply to the OP.
BTW he also said this "As far as accuracy of placement of focus (front of back focus) as well as false positives / negatives, we'll have to wait to comment on that until we've been able to test the Z9, R3, and A1 further side-by-side.
Suffice it to say all 3 cameras are phenomenal & deliver."

Which is a point that I've made many times. At this level, all of these cameras are astonisingly good. Choice of which to use is becoming less and less one of technical differences and more one of user experience and thats something Nikon has always done well.
One further point. If you have bothered to look, I've only ever praised the A1, the fact that I think the Z9 is a great camera in no way means that I think the A1 is not.

Pretty sure you just complained, but I understand the brand loyalty angle, haha.

I'd probably prefer the universal body myself, but if you'd lined up all 3 cameras in front of me, I think I'd try the R3 first. The eye-controlled AF is something I've never experienced in a camera before so I'd be very curious to try that out.

High resolution and fast speed? Handy to have, sure, but déjà vu.

I hate to say it but I think it was mainly the resolution and resulting Video output. That one change probably would have completely changed it's reception. Which is too bad because 24MP get's the job done it's right in the MP sweetspot. The camera is great, but it's like Nikon not putting 2 card slots on a camera. It's such a non issue compared to everything that was done right that it will forever be judged on that one issue by the spec sheet photographers.

Yes, the if the R3 had something like 45 to 50 MP it would have been up there in the conversation. As it is, many gear oriented sites and reviewers just kind of ignore it.

That's a shame because those who have used it really love it, and most love the eye control AF.

In the long run, that eye control AF feature may be remembered as being one of the things with most impact this year, and hence the R3 may be looked upon as more significant.

> most love the eye control AF.

It's nice but a bit of a gimmick to be honest. DPReview's Jordan didn't love it. When tested by Chris & Jordan, it had a 66% failure rate (worked for Chris, did not work for Jordan or his wife). Other reviewers have reported that for it to work properly, it has to be recalibrated for different lighting conditions and of course for each person using it. In addition, eye-control AF on the R3 is completely disabled whenever video is being recorded.

@mikegt: Here's the reality about eye control AF: it works for some, not for others. Most that I have read about seem to really love it.

Sure you can cherry pick someone for whom it didn't work so well. That's natural. But it will also get better over time.

There are users like the great wedding photographer Sam Hurd where he loved the eye control AF and it has transformed the way he shoots.

DPR did an article on eye control AF:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6931257631/is-the-canon-eos-r3-s-eye-control-af-good-enough-for-sports-shooting

"But for those of us at DPReview that tried it, we loved it. It's such a simple yet powerful way of working for a wide variety of photography that we're anxiously awaiting the technology to trickle down to more consumer-level products. It's honestly one of those features that would benefit everyone from beginner photographers that just want to document their families, all the way up to pro sports shooters.

Even if eye control is not perfect yet, few years ago the same could be said about eye AF. Now eye AF has improved significantly and is a must for any high level camera.

Yes, Valdyslav is correct. Eye control will only get better over time and even now many users love it. It could become a de facto standard on all cameras.

And here is more from that DPR article on eye control AF:
"After this experience, I would frankly prefer not to use an AF joystick ever again. Even using a touchscreen just feels clunky after being able to take control over such a significant aspect of the camera simply by moving my eye."

This is about announcement impact, not about real user experience, otherwise one would only vote for their own gear, not very interesting. Most people vote on the perception that that camera or lens is something really interesting. And the Z9 rally caught a lot of attention, from all types of photographers. My case, I'll likely never buy such a camera, but it interested me to learn about it and its new technologies.

If that is the case...I am voting for my Samsung smartphone...that is the only camera I bought this year. ;-)

@W5JCK Are you suggesting that readers on a consumer electronic site dedicated to photography gear, should use the gear before voting on a popular vote?

That seems impractical.

Also, there are many reviews of all 3 products all over the net last month. So, it's not like people voted only on marketing material.

When you can see a Sony user bitter about the results from a mile away.
First it was "It isn't even in consumer hands yet", then "It's in consumer hands but not at a high volume yet", then "It's too close to the end of the year so it shouldn't count."

Sony, haven’t you exhausted your supply of lowrez lcd panels for the A1 YET!

Congrats Sony, the highest priced, Top of your line camera with the crappiest lcd panel money can buy!

Canon, ship your blasted camera already!

Nikon, announced and shipped. Congrats Nikon!

Even if they were all widely available, polls like this would never reflect an unbiased appraisal based on experience of all the contenders because most photographers don't get to personally try more than a small fraction of each year's new products, so you really can't expect anything else. Be thankful the readers have a wider scope than just voting for whichever new camera they bought that year, if at all.

@Thoughts R Us

Wait, you wouldn't choose the Sony?

Dang - I miscalled that one.

@RubberDials:
I was surprised too. Sneaky TRU was hiding his preference for Nikon very well ;-)

@CBphoto123

DPR criticised the use of stepper motors in Nikon lenses not me. The 'arguments' are theirs not mine. I also didn't quote Rishi, or link to any articles he wrote.

If you consider making six posts in a day being busy I guess you don't have much of a work ethic.

Strange how everyone has forgotten the Sony A1 now.

OMG... Even as they're selling units faster than they can make them and winning top awards for the year there's still haters saying they've about to die out.