Should you upgrade? New Sony a7 IV vs a7 III

Simply put: YES!

But... if you need 4k60 uncropped, or 4k120 you should skip it for the A7S III or A1, or wait for the A9 III and A7R V next year.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Of course, Sony Alfa Rumors is calling for next year, the a7rV, a9iii, plus one unknown. I hope the unknown is the a7cii. I still maintain that the goodies in the a7iv, will eventually find their way in the a7cii, mostly. I expect them to drop the a7ii next year with the a7iii an a7c becoming the Entry Level FF Models. With of course, an decent price Drop.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Thoughts R Us

I tried an a7C in a Best Buy and was impressed with the body and build quality. To me it's the best body that Sony has made. It has one downfall though and that is a very poor EVF.

I honestly would have considered buying one with their 35 f.14GM lens if the EVF had been good. They had the lens on display with an A7SIII and yes, that lens is special.

I too hope that Sony very soon comes out with the A7c II, with all of the goodies from the A7IV, without waiting a few years until the a7IV tech is getting dated. Then all they need to do is to really improve the EVF. If they improved the EVF enough I would buy one.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Yes, the A7C is for those shooting using the screen.

The lack of a joystick is IMHO the worst cut corner it has... and a very close second is the ridiculously small number of dials and buttons. Third would be the single card slot, and fourth the small (a7 1st gen style) grip.

Other than that, it's good in most respects, and the smallest usable hybrid full-frame camera out there (the Sigma L-mount camera is a joke for photo).

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@catlyn: basically the worst thing with the A7c is that it's not the A7 III. ;)

I must admit that the lack of a second dial is annoying, and considering the price a better EVF and little things like dual slots and joystick. But I don't see how the grip could have been bigger when the goal was a smaller camera. We probably don't want a 200-600mm on that body.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

IamJF

2nd dial and I will give it a close look. Would be a great 2nd camera - but not with different usability as an A7.

Nov 11, 2021permalink

#larkhon

Agree with all except the grip and a 200-600. You may want whatever you need on any body. Want to shoot a 400mm f/2.8? Great.

No, a better grip wouldn't have made the camera huge. Just look at the a6600 -- it's the same size as the a6400, but has a better deeper grip. For me, a better grip is at least deeper, that allow the hand to stay better and grip the camera better.

Nov 16, 2021permalink

@catlyn:
The A6600 has a better grip but also a 25% increase in weight, and a new battery that would not fit in the A6400's grip. A bigger grip would have meant a weight closer to A7 III. It is already a rangefinder version of the A7 III with much worse controls and features, how would they sell it if it were less than 100g lighter? I would imagine the c in the name stands for compact after all.

In my opinion they didn't go far enough, they could have gone closer to A5100 (let's not forget there was a RX1, the A7c is a mammoth in comparison). And there's always a possibility of improving the grip with accessories. While you don't want to use a 200-600mm you still can.

Nov 16, 2021permalink

TonyPM

The A7III is still a very good camera.

The question is.

Will it get a price drop now?
And, will it get a firmware update to make that af system a little better than before?

Nov 9, 2021permalink

No and no. Or unlikely.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

williams359

The one firmware update I wish they had done is the grey focusing box. Who's Idea was it to make it grey. they changed it via firmware for the A9mk1 but never the A7iii. Main reason that camera stayed in my bag.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@williams359
I also wanted the A7 II to have a setting for min. speed for Auto ISO. The A7r II had it. Like in your case, not something big to fix in a FW update. Never happened...

Nov 10, 2021permalink

IamJF

Price drop - for sure.
Firmware update - it already got a BIG AF firmware update. Don't think they will make any more and I also don't think the old processor is able to do more.

Nov 11, 2021permalink

Bob P cz

@IamJF The old processor IS able to do more - the a7c has the same old processor and it does have a real time tracking. They never updated a7iii for the same AF algoritm, supposingly to differentiate a7iii and a7iv more. Actually not very surprising to me...

Nov 13, 2021permalink

Kerensky97

Cameras in the last few years have all been so amazing, I think many people aren't so much limited by their camera specs as they are they own ability to use the camera.
Getting a new camera I'd probably go with the a7IV, but I don't really see the need to upgrade if I already have the A7III.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

Seems like good commentary. Especially the old chestnut "But if you're not pushing the camera in either regard, it might be that an extra lens could benefit your photography more than upgrading to the newest model." which for a lot of folks, is really the best place to spend their money.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

When I first started posting on DPR, the mantra was invest in quality Lens, not new Cameras. Those mantras seem to change, daily.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

Date the body, marry the glass..

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Aberaeron

New camera models seem fewer and further between these days than at any time in the last two decades.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Dan_168

If i am a A7 III user and decided to stay in this level of camera I will definitely upgrade to the a7 IV, the improvement in the resolution, AF tracking, and most importantly the bigger body makes it a day and night better camera.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

abarth

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered.
The a7 III is still a great camera but for my type of video shooting 10 bit will help and the better AF as well as the articulating screen will save me trouble (and re-shoots!) when I don't want to hook up an external monitor. Things tend to go wrong when I can't see what the camera is doing. 😑

Also, finally no more stupid 30 min recording limit!

Nov 9, 2021permalink

minoltak

LA-EA5 support and better AF are the two reasons to change the A7III for A7IV. All the rest is unimportant.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

The video stuff is pretty important too

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Djehuty

Why can't they implement video AF-C for LA-EA5 is beyond me.

Nov 12, 2021permalink

Did anyone test the weather sealing of the new model yet? How does it compare to the a7 III?

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I don't know of any test of the A7 IV. But it basically is the body of the A7S III, and for that, there are multiple tests out there. Seems like you basically cannot kill it with water.
Well, salt and soap water is another story, but I guess that's true for all cameras :D

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Thanks, good info.

I ask because Sony has a less-than-stellar track record in this regard. And other manufacturers have actually moved towards IPX ratings.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

The only manufacturer with a meaningful IP rating is Leica with their IP54 rating.

Olympus offers an IPX1 rating, but that is basically meaningless and doesn't even cover moderate rain, or holding the camera slightly slanted in any kind of rain

Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji and Sony don't offer any kind of IP rating. But the new high-end cameras are all basically watertight from them

Nov 10, 2021permalink

https://www.imaging-resource.com/articles/2017-weather-testing-nikon-d850-vs-sony-a7riii-canon-5div-olympus-e-m1II

The most comprehensive test I know of is this one by imaging resource:

Canon and Olympus came out on top, followed by Nikon with Sony falling pretty hard behind with the A7 III.

Now apparently Sony has made some improvements since then but I would like to know more.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@Auf Reisen

Well, that's a third-gen body. Since then Sony had two body revisions for the 4th and then for the 5th gen.
For the 4th gen, there are extensive teardowns showing the improved seals. For the 5th gen, there are no teardowns yet. Just reviews with extensive and extreme rain. And they handle them flawlessly.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

That seals are there is good to know, but it does not show how well they work. That somebody took the camera out in the rain and had it survive is also nice but different from systematic testing. I took a bunch of non-sealed cameras out in the rain without anything ever happening to them.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@Auf Reisen
The imaging resource test you linked, was basically an amateur test as well. A sample size of 1. A test number of 1. And all that on a model that is not relevant today.

People put their A7S III into multiple hours of heavy rain. But you don't like the test because it isn't imaging-resource hosing down the camera with the equivalent of light rain for 15min?

I don't know what will convince you

Nov 11, 2021permalink

A systematic test under controlled conditions with an investigation where water ingress occured is certainly much more reliable than someone taking a camera and stating that no damage occured (yet). I agree they should have repeated the test with more units. Alas, reviewers in the photo review industry almost never do.

"I don't know what will convince you"
A test like the imaging resource test I linked with never models would be a great start.

Got any links to the tests you mentioned?

Nov 11, 2021permalink

jonby

The menu changes look like an improvement. I hope they have included the ability to navigate between primary and secondary tabs with separate dials. When I used the A7III I found having to scroll up to the tab in order to traverse menus was a real pain.
One of the other complaints I had was the back AF button being a bit hard to find with the camera to my eye. Glad to see they have sorted that.
There were lots of other things I wasn't keen on - sluggish response of the manual light meter, only +/- 2 EV readings, flickering EVF, too small a body for the number of controls, and many other poorly thought-out interface decisions. Not clear whether this new model will improve on these - I would need to try it out. The specs don't give you the whole story by a long shot.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

silvano

for dpreview:
does anyone know if the 7IV has the "AF color frame" ?
Many thanks

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Yes. A choice or red or white.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Ilan_H

More interesting for me is 7IV or R6.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I'll add that to our list of articles to consider, thanks for the suggestion.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Yes, you should upgrade. To Nikon or Canon :)

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Bob Janes

The z5 is a seriously nice spec for the price - but for someone with A mount glass the a7iv plus the la-ea5 is probably going to keep us in place...

Nov 9, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ AvailableMight: How would such an "upgrade" affect the quality of my work? Would not anything at all. But it would hurt my wallet a lot.

Better to stay with the mount that fit my excellent and expensive glass. At all, the cameras in this leage are excellent performers.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

@Magnar
How would an update to the new *Sony* affect the quality of your work? Correct, it doesn't, too.

You can adapt your lenses easily on the new Nikon or Canon mounts. You don't have to, but you get a NPS or CPS support and an ergonomic body. Of course, *you* choose what's the best for you.

I stay on DSLRs, for example, still shooting film and digital on some events. Using the same lenses on ALL bodies.

Nov 10, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ AvailableMight: Sure, we have tons of possibilities with all brands, and that's great! Personally I prefer native mount lenses, though, but I have a few lenses that need to be adapted.

Nov 10, 2021*permalink

MartinSho

the small changes don't justify a new camera, let alone the much higher price tag. The APSC cameras make fantastic cameras as well. I might go back to APSC, lighter and cheaper. good for taking the camera everywhere.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Dan_168

I consider the change pretty big, the 33 Vs 24MP, the much better AF/Tracking , the bigger handgrip, the implementation of the lossless RAW, the ability to close the mechanical shutter, CFexpress A slot, I would even call it a day and night better camera, all with a little bit of price hike.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I don't think this is the same kind of upgrade as mark II to III, which was really day and night, in my opinion, and for any user. In the case of the mark IV one might see the difference when directly compared to mark III, but I doubt one would feel limited with mark III the same way as with mark II.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Kona Mike

a true upgrade is to a higher level model, not a new release of the same model.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@Kona Mike:
I agree, but there are not that many levels though, and not everyone will be interested in the A9, for instance, compared to the A7 IV. The A1 might suit everyone but it's a big upgrade.

By increasing the price to 2800€, they put the new model against the A7r III for landscapers and the original A9 can be found in used condition at a cheaper price. At least it looks like an upgrade if you look at the price, I guess that's what was intended.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Jeff DLB

I love my APS-C a6000 (+Sony 18-135mm), and take it on long hikes in the mountains. The full-frame a7 IV is obviously a great camera, and I enjoy reading these articles and comments about better cameras than mine, but each time instead of getting Camera Envy I end up more convinced that I made the right choice last year buying the lowly a6000. Zero of the deficiencies in my landscape photos are due to not having FF, or extra dials, or better EVF, or 300 extra grams to carry, or $2000 left in my pocket. For me that cash would be better spent on travel to a new photogenic destination!

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Kona Mike

@larkhon, As I said before, when a manufacturer releases a new version ( II, II , Iv) it is just to keep that camera current. Different models up the manufacturer's camera line are the upgrade path.

I'm not sure why people feel compelled to buy every new version, and/or worry if all the incremental changes are an advantage over the previous model.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Harry33

From the business point of view, one may think does a newer camera body make him or her a better photographer and would it pay itself back by increasing the number of photos sold or even sold with a higher price tag.
Usually the answer is no, no it does not.
Then, one may consider the impact of the newer body on to the quality of the photos.
And the answer is usually not much. A greater impact can be achieved with a higher quality lens.
But that still doesn't make anyone a better photographer.
Only a good practice and a good mentor can do that.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Totally correct.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Dan_168

I just want to get down from my high horse and report in my own case, I got significantly more good picture coming back from a Airshow and bird watching every time I used my D500 compare to my A7R II, so for me, gear matters, mattes a lot actually, same event same bond head, same skill ( or lack of) , only thing different was the camera gears.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Nikita66

I just do not understand joysticks for focusing. Simply pointing, recomposing and shooting is way faster than messing with a fiddly little knob, at least for hand-held.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

blse59

Because some people's brains work differently than yours and they have different ways they prefer to do things. It's good to have options.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

mujana

I agree with both of you. I always focus/recompose. Always as in always.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

quatpat

When you have your camera on a tripod, for example for product photography, you can't just focus and recompose all the time.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

mujana

@quatpat. Correct! I never did that and never thought of that. Thnxs.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

CarlitosM

Lens with field curvature or narrow DOF, you are better off not recomposing

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Focus and recompose also doesn't work super great for macro, where the DOF is so small

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Kerensky97

It also depends on light metering, I like to choose where I meter the light not always on the subject since I'll be editing later. When you recompose you might pan up to find your sky is suddenly blown out because the composition changed.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

MikeRan

CarlitosM that’s no longer an issue in the “new” focus recompose with AF-C and tracking.

Put the subject in the center, initiate tracking and recompose. The camera keeps the subject in focus even if you move or the subject moves or the lens has field curvature.

In 2021 this is focus recompose.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Nikita66

Yes, "quatpat," that's why I mentioned hand held.
And "blse" gets all defensive.
Oy vey, photo forums are so contentious.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Nothing wrong with making an excellent camera even better.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Nikita66

Right, except it's now $500 more. It's gone over my $2K limit. As a non-pro, I can't justify it.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

The A7III is still available, at a lower price tag than yesterday.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

eno2

@Magnar W "The A7III is still available, at a lower price tag than yesterday."

Actually the A7III is exactly the same price as yesterday and to be fair, at least in some stores in USA it is exactly the same price as it was at launch 1998$ (check the prices at BH).

Nov 9, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ eno2: It was meant as a metaphore.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

If the price of the newer model should be 25% higher than the previous model a few years ago, a lcd tv would cost more than $50,000 today. If you want I can argue how much better a tv today compared to what it was decades ago.
You can also argue with early adoption rule pricing, but even a TV 10 years ago was still more expensive than it is today.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Kerensky97

That's one of my gripes with Sony keeping all their former models in production at the same price. Each new model has to be just that much more expensive. When the old camera goes out of production the prices can lower a bit in-between the release of the next upgraded model.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@Magnar W:
metaphore or not, shops are still selling it 2149€ over here. So it's almost like yesterday's price that was 2299€ in 2018.
Mark II went from 1800€ at release to 1100€ when Mark III was released. Tough times...

So A7 II + 500€ = A7 III, A7 III + 500€= A7 IV and finally A7 II + 1000€ = A7 IV.

Nothing wrong with making an expensive camera more expensive.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

voronspb

> onemoreguy
"If the price of the newer model should be 25% higher than the previous model a few years ago, a lcd tv would cost more than $50,000 today"

The camera market is a declining one, unfortunately... You may safely compare the TVs to the present drone market: each subsequent model outshines the previous one by huge margin.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Pseu_Pseu_Pseudonym

Someone could have cleaned the dust off the 73 before using it for a product shoot.

The EV comp dial is also lightly damaged (on the 73).

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Someone tried. They also then spent a tedious amount of time cloning the worst of it out. It should still catch me off-guard just how much every dust spec sparkles when you hit it with flash, and yet...

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Shouldn't still catch me off-guard, rather.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Karroly

"They also then spent a tedious amount of time cloning the worst of it out."
cloning or cleaning ? ;-)

Nov 10, 2021permalink

Thirdmort

As an a7iii owner who only shoots photos, I'm not tempted in the slightest. The screens, Compressed Raw, real-time AF, and slight resolution bump are nice but not NEEDs. Add the price difference and it doesn't make a ton of sense for stills shooters. I got my a7iii on sale, so the price gap between what I paid and the a7iv is way too big to justify the little upgrades.

For the video folk, it's probably a different story, but I'll hold onto my little a7iii for a long time to come :D

Nov 9, 2021permalink

geekyrocketguy

I'm in the same boat. You want me to upgrade? Release a model with better ISO performance and dynamic range. As long as the camera can shoot 1080p at 30fps, I DGAF about video features. And yet this comparison didn't even mention ISO performance/DR.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Thirdmort

Haha I know what you mean. I've never even taken a video clip on my Sony yet. Granted, it took me years before I did so on my old Canon 6D too... If I want video, I just pull out my phone or my GoPro (video people will probably flip out at hearing that haha).

Nov 10, 2021permalink

visualenvy

Good to see Sony improving the usability of the camera instead of just throwing in a bunch of new hyped up marketing gimmicks.

Put the A7IV next to the A7 and you'll think/realize what a horrible user experience the original version was.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ visualenvy: Still use the original A7. Not a bad camera, and image quality is just fine for lots of paid work too. The newer one feel much more mature, though.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

The first a7 was already not a bad cam, but very unergonomic. Without some improvements to the grip, mostly done aftermarket its no tool for daily work. At least not for me.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ AvailableMight: I tried to figure out how the engineers thought we should hold the original A7 grip. With the index finger pointing up instead of horizontal direction when grabbing the camera, the grip feels much more comfortable, and the placement of the shutter release button makes more sense.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

The original one was lighter than the A7c btw. Shame they didn't go a bit further with the weight reduction. Another 30-50g off and a second dial would have made it better for me (but I'm happy with it so far, just nitpicking).

Nov 10, 2021permalink

M4NH4CK

Quick question: can you pinch-to-zoom in the photo review mode? Can you swipe left or right to browse photos on the SD card? Asking because I'm getting quite tired of models taking the A7 III off my hands to review poses, then spreading fingers on the screen just like they would on a smartphone to zoom in - only to fail. And then I take the camera back with a grimace like, "Allow me to perform that bit of rocket surgery for you."

Seriously, zooming in on the photos in the A7 III is like trying to set time on a Casio digital wristwatch a few decades ago: unless you are a certified time-setting expert, you'll end up pressing every button combination twice before you figure out the damn thing. Sure, I have the muscle memory required, but my models do not.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

dlb41

Absolutely. Better ergo and build quality.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Gesture

Extremely important for Sony's future to keep the incremental sales. Like Nikon DX series.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

james _

I think Sony did a great job picking and choosing what to trickle down from their high end cameras to modernize the A7 line. People complaining about its price should consider how few features away it is from matching top tier models from both Sony and other brands, while still managing to offer benefits unique only to the A7IV at this time.

The real excitement for me is that Nikon is in a great position to observe what Sony did and one up them with the Z6 III release and potentially take the lead for the next few years (though I'm guessing that camera won't come for at least another year). This is what a competitive market is about, urging the development of better products from all brands.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Dave Oddie

I agree. I get the impression some people are underwhelmed or think it's not worth the increased price. I am not sure what they expect? A Sony A1 bar the 50mp sensor for this price?

There are enough improvements as outlined in the article to justify the price including little things not mentioned like the shutter being able to protect the sensor from dust (which is something I think Canon did first).

As to people with A7 III upgrading, that's a choice only they can make and I suspect for many they will be like me an amateur for whom such a purchase isn't a yearly occurrence. I have one on pre-order as I finally pension off my trusty Sony A77 and I the A7 IV will hopefully last me as long as the A77 did.

In the UK it sells for the same price as the Canon R6 which also has compromises to meet a price level compared to the R5.

As to Nikon, I think a Z6 III will need their excellent 3D AF added to compete. Will they trickle that down to a Z6 level camera? Time will tell.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Pseu_Pseu_Pseudonym

It's not an A1 bar the resolution. Not even close.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Dave Oddie

@Pseu_Pseu_Pseudonym "It's not an A1 bar the resolution. Not even close."

No one said it was. I was suggesting some people think it should be.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

"I get the impression some people are underwhelmed or think it's not worth the increased price"

you're right. I'd be one of those. I would make a comparison with computer hardware, where you have now some people saying it's only fair that the newest GPU costs 50% more because it's delivering 50% more performance than the previous generation.
Except that not so long ago, hardware would see their prices fall over time, and the new hardware would come at roughly the same price (making it a 50% increase or whatever to the current price, not the release price).

Here we have a camera that never really lost its MSRP, and they're basically making the new one more expensive, so they can keep the old one at MSRP. And it's not only Sony. Canon made their R6 more expensive than the A7 III or Z6 II and didn't lower their price for a year now (cashback aside). Sure there are shortages but this strategy started before the pandemic...

Nov 10, 2021*permalink

ZilverHaylide

Of course upgrade. Upgrade your camera, your lenses. But why stop there?! In fact, upgrade everything! Your car, your house, your wife, your kids...

Seriously, though, this particular upgrade does look worthwhile, feature-wise (unless you hate fully-articulating rear LCDs). Add in the fact that the A7iii might, from some reports, have some tendency towards shutter failures, and that's reason from an additional direction to move up to the A7iv.

However, I'm under the impression that the A7iv lacks pixel shift. Is that correct, or did I miss mention of it? If it's missing, that would make the A7Riii the better choice not only for landscape, but also for still life, and film digitization, and in fact for any non-moving subject where moire/aliasing could be a problem, or maximum color fidelity desired.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Do we know if the shutter is that much different than the a7iii?

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Upgrade because your current camera potentially could have a shutter failure at some point 🤔

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Simon Barker

Realistically the A74 is going to be the better choice for the vast majority of people over the A7R3.

Pixel shift is a good feature but the A7R3 is too limiting, you can't use it with flash due to the slow read out and you can't use it with any moving subjects. For the select few this applies to I'm reasonably confident the A7R4 or A1 are better choices.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

M4NH4CK

I wonder if the shutter can be replaced on the A7 III. Haven't found it mentioned anywhere. Or am I stuck with buying a new camera if it breaks down? It has been acting up lately after 130k+ actuations, which is below the advertised life of 200k but still within that range. Shooting moving subjects using electronic shutter is not an option due to the lag.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY

Shutter replacement is usually in the 5-600 range. But cameras tend to be pretty beat up by the time they need it, unless you are doing Timelapse

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Neverlost99

You had me at wife

Nov 9, 2021permalink

HJVN

Our kids get upgraded automatically as they grow older. They learn new tricks and get new abilities.
You don't even need to get new ones, the old model just magical morph into a newer updated version.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Pseu_Pseu_Pseudonym

What site do you recommend to upgrade the wife?

A firmware update would be preferable if possible. Thanks.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Dave Oddie

@HJVN this will only mean something to those in the UK of a certain age but a comedian by the name of Harry Enfield used to do sketches based on a character known as "Kevin the Teenager".

Not sure if this link will work outside the UK (if that is where you are) as it links to a BBC YouTube video but it is the moment Kevin receives his "upgrade" to teenager.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@neverlost: twss

Nov 9, 2021permalink

HJVN

@Dave Oddie
Perfection.
Though not English, I do like English humor.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

eno2

The A7IV could be a nice 1999$ camera, but at 2499$ it's overpriced IMO!

Nov 9, 2021permalink

james _

yeah, if it had the super fast sensor readout of the a7sIII and the RAW burst shooting capability of the a9, I might consider it for $2000

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

blse59

The market has the final say. If they're sitting on warehouse shelves with no buyers then it's overpriced. For some reason I don't think that will be the case here. You can argue that if they're selling as much as they make and there is still a waiting list it might be underpriced.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

The Squirrel Mafia

The a7IV has definitely caught my attention. I look at it this way. The APS-C Pentax K-3III is $2,000 USA. It's the most advanced Pentax DSLR body ever made with AF.C that is actually usable with a fast focusing lens. All other Pentax bodies before it are practically useless in AF.C including the full frame Pentax K-1II. The K-3III even has eye-AF through the viewfinder, though it's not on the level of most mirrorless bodies.

For only $500 USA more, not only am I getting a full frame camera, but I'm also getting autofocus performance that makes me feel like I'm cheating on a college final exam without any worries of being caught.

The K-3III is built like a tank. It's the APS-C "flagship" for Pentax. I'm quite certain that the a7IV doesn't have the build, ergonomics, weather sealing, & similar features that the K-3III has, but ultimately the a7IV looks like it can deliver far more image keepers than the K-3III. I'm just talking about stills here. Pentax has nothing on video. Hmmm.....

Nov 9, 2021permalink

The US inflation rate is around 5%. I'm not sure how people come up with 15, 20%. This is not the first time I've seen these comments this month.
Even for food this what I've got from a quick research "Cost of food in the United States increased 4.60 percent in September of 2021 over the same month in the previous year."

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

That's one of the causes.
It doesn't explain how you come up with that number.
Maybe it feels like it?

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

I understand. That's the nature of the inflation problem actually.

We often ignore small price changes and only notice big price changes at the same period of time. Then when we feel the inflation rate is a lot higher than what it actually is, we rush out and stock up things we don't even need. In turn, it creates even higher inflation. The vicious circle goes on.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Thoughts R Us

@onemoreguy: perfectly said. We don't have nearly as much of an inflation problem as some make it out to be.

And you have to expect some inflation given supply shortages and the surge in demand coming out of the world health situation.

What would one rather have? Recession? Lockdown?

Look at fuel. Of course there's inflation relative to last year because people weren't able to travel last year. Would you rather go back to that?

The key is to keep inflation low, within a certain range. So far that's been happening if one considers the overall market.

The price of luxury cameras doesn't count, and let's face it, all of these FF cameras are really luxury items to most people.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

JoeOe

Has anyone seen an a7c vs a7IV autofocus comparison?

I "upgraded" from the a7III to the a7c early in the year for the better AF performance (and because I am one of those weirdos who like viewfinders on the side of the body.)

Nov 9, 2021permalink

It looks stickier and faster from videos, but who knows. Nothing earth shattering currently. If there are no firmware updates, I’d say definitely not worth an upgrade from a7c

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

The a7C is better than the A7 III for sure.

But you don't pay the a7 IV's premium for nothing... ;)
It's definitely better than the A7C in autofocus, too.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

whtchocla7e

For someone like me who is still using a 1st gen, 12 mpx body (2014 tech), mark IV looks absolutely tasty. The autofocus, the full touch screen operation, the articulating screen, the 33 mpx with lossless compression - all of that alone will be a huge step-up. It's all a matter of perspective

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I'm a big fan of skipping at least one generation between upgrades.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

@whtchocla7e

What 1st gen body are you using? Certainly not the a7 first-gen, which has 24 mpx.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Maybe you should throw in the Sony - Alpha 7R III as well. I have seen the latest version discounted at an lower price than the just released a7iv. So many folks are now saying it's all about the MP. Clearly the a7iv has more. So clearly it isn't just about MP.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Never was, you could also buy an A7R II cheaper than an A7 III for most of its life

Nov 9, 2021permalink

james _

maybe you should read the article...

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I'm not just talking about the article, I am however talking about folks an the ongoing MP war. But I shouldn't have to click through like forever, for them to mention they also included the a7riii, that should have mentioned, at the start. In the title. Should have been...............Not until point #11

Should you upgrade? New Sony a7 IV vs a7 III vs a7r III

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

"panther fan
Never was"

Clearly some are not behaving that way. Some People are behaving as if 24MP is just dirt these days.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

IMO, the comparison would have to be the a7riv.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

JpGomez

As an a7III owner, everything about the a7IV is very enticing. It is the most complete package Sony has come up with.

OTOH, I tend to skip one gen (from a7 to a7iii) and can wait for a7V.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Really? The only material upgrades I see is active is and real time tracking. The rest of the stuff is very evolutionary or niche video.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

JpGomez

That's why I feel its a complete package for an a7 line. It's pretty much an a7Siii except the 4K120 crop but with $1K less price tag.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

l92

In my country it's double the price. For a slightly higher res sensor, and 10bit video. No thanks.
(Before you attack, I know there are other minor improvements, but I don't care about those)

Nov 9, 2021permalink

If you don't care about improvements in AF, IQ, ergonomics, EVF, screen, utility etc...

What upgrades would you have cared about?

Nov 9, 2021permalink

andyyau

For its spec, I really prefer paying more for a better and faster one. The problem is that it is not cheap. And it is almost the same price as A7R IV in my location.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

l92

panther fan,

+2mm grip isn't gonna make it or break it for me ergonomics-wise, I was fine with the previous one.
How is the screen better? it was trash 4 years ago, it's trash now, but you can flip it out.

But I agree there are other improvements. As I said, I don't care about those.
All I'm saying it doesn't worth 2x A7III for me. That's it.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

"How is the screen better?"

1. Slight bump in resolution from 640x480 to 720x480
2. change of aspect ratio from 4:3 to 3:2 making it essentially larger for stills and videos
3. increased brightness and viewing angles

Nov 9, 2021permalink

sabad

He cares about the price, improvements are not important to him.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

l92

If we wouldn't care about the price we'd all have A1s as that's better in every possible way.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

ASRBriggs

@panther fan That is still a garbage screen on a $2500 camera in 2021.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@ASRBriggs
Would I wish it was higher resolution? -Yes

Is it as big a deal as people make it out to be? -Not at all

The pixel density is 288 PPI.
That is slightly above the newest 2021 Ipad Pro Liquid Retina XDR Display at 264 PPI
And slightly below the 326 PPI of an iPhone XR/11 or the new 2021 series 7 Apple watch

Is it ideal? No. But garbage? Not at all. Especially with the high screen brightness, which is a far bigger deal for viewability than a minor resolution increase

Nov 10, 2021permalink

ASRBriggs

Where are you getting screen brightness specs from? I can't find them anywhere for any Sony models. It's certainly not listed on DPR. Also, where are they measuring this 3" screen from? Previous Sony models are listed as 3" also, but if you look carefully, the bezel on the left hand side has increased massively, presumably to make space for the articulating hinge. So is the overall area bigger now to still incorporate a 3" screen and the larger bezel? I'd love a fact check from a reviewer on that one.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

@ASRBriggs
screen brightness -reviews

3" as all screen size measurements is the diagonal

area is of course not the same because of the changed aspect ratio

bezel on the right is smaller now, and the one one the left not much bigger: https://camerasize.com/compact/#777,883,ha,b

Nov 10, 2021*permalink

ASRBriggs

Sorry, I'm still not seeing where you are getting screen brightness figures from. "screen brightness -reviews" does not help me. Every review I have looked at does not list it, nor does DPR, nor does the official Sony specs.

Nov 10, 2021permalink

mart1234

A tilt screen is much faster to flip out and close, so I would not see that as a con. Fully articulating screens require a pretty complex movement with two hands involved.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Yes for stills use I think the tilt style screens are better

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Complex.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I preordered the A7IV on day one. The improvements over the A7III, which I own seem to be a pretty big upgrade, especially in AF. But now with the rumored A9III coming out in 2022 will the A7IV be the right move? That remains to be seen.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

A9 III will be 4500$, that's almost double the A7 IV price. And it will probably come in at a lower 24MP resolution.

So there are really only four reasons to wait for the A9 III
-you need the speed
-you need the fast readout of the stacked sensor for shutterless shooting
-you want the better EVF
-you want/need full width 4k 60p

Nov 9, 2021permalink

I doubt Sony will offer the A9III at the same price as the A9II. But stranger things have happened for sure! And 24mp's is still enough imho. Could care less about the video side.
As for the A9III, as a budding wildlife shooter, the speed would be welcome. Even though I get "decent" shots with my lowly A7III. And the silent shooting is nice in some respects with wildlife and street. But doens't the A9II and now the A7IV have the same EVF?
Will be interesting when reviewers get the production model of the A7IV in their hands to compare RAW files between the 24mp sensor and the new 33mp sensor. And to see if there were any improvements in the preproduction models vs production models of the A7IV.
And me being me? I could be overthinking the A7IV. It very well could be an outstanding camera!

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@AZheaven
Both the A9 and A9 II launched at 4500$. And the A9 III has a set price ceiling with the A1. The A1 launched at 6500$ and will be over a year old at that point with frequent discounts. Setting the A9 III at 5000$ would doom it. So my guess is Sony would stay at 4500$

Nov 9, 2021permalink

THAT would be great if so!!!! And I'm just speculating anyway. With inflation and certain upgrades from the A9II, it was just a guess they would raise prices. Don't see Sony crippling the A1. But who knows what goes through the minds of corporate?!
I've been reading where some are upset over the price increase of the A7IV vs the A7III. Without taking into account inflation since 2018 and various upgrades over the A7III.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

Color me skeptical about 3 cameras in 2022. That being said I think an a9iii or a7rv would make sense. For me, I will “never” buy another non-stacked camera. Imho, that’s part of the reason why the a7iv isn’t that much of an upgrade, even if ticks all the boxes.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@SafariBob..
Well, let's not forget also that SAR rumored the A7IV for nearly 2 years! So there's that to look forward to regarding the A9III and RV! And depending on the performance of the A7IV? I may either wait for a hopeful A9III in 2022 or maybe Sony will have a price decrease on the A9II. Strange they didn't after the release of the A1.

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@Richard Butler
As you probably know best, because you wrote an article on it: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2834066212/the-raw-and-the-cooked-pulling-apart-sony-raw-compression. Sonys lossy compression is 11+7bit not 12bit.

What your 2nd section probably refers to is readout mode. And yes the A7 III drops to 12bit readout mode in compressed RAW continous. But does the A7 IV? Because it is not listed that it does on Sonys website: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00229990

Also, the part reads like the A7 III wouldn't support 14bit uncompressed RAW, but it does. And it does so at 10FPS.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

I'll try to clarify that I mean compressed Raw from 12-bit readout. That and the fact it's destructively lossy are the main things I wanted to convey (since 11+7 bit is not going to mean much to most people).

The article you've linked to pre-dates the a7 IV. I'm working from this statement:

'RAW images recorded with this camera have a resolution of 14 bits per pixel. However, resolution is limited to 12 bits in the following shooting modes:'

'[Cont. Shooting] when [RAW File Type] is set to [Compressed].'

I'll have another look at the text around continuous shooting on the a7 III, too. Thanks for picking up on that detail (I have too many caveats about camera features floating around my head at the minute).

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

According to this, the a7 III's burst rate drops in uncompressed mode:

'The shooting speed during continuous shooting becomes slower when [RAW File Type] is set to [Uncompressed].'

So the statement that both only shoot 10 fps in lossy compressed mode appears to be correct (that said, I don't have an a7 III to-hand to cross-check against, this morning).

Nov 9, 2021permalink

@Richard Butler
If you trust imaging-resource.com, which I do, they have done the test for you:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a7-iii/sony-a7-iiiA6.HTM

The measured speed according to them drops from 9.86 fps to 9.73 fps. I would call that 10 FPS

[Another thing worth mentioning is that both cameras need to drop from Hi+ to Hi to get live view. That's 8FPS on the A7 III (probably the same on the A7 IV)]

Nov 9, 2021permalink

It's times like this I hate cameras so much.

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

Well but that's exactly why we need you. Basically all cameras in this class come with a giant stack of asterisks and somebody needs to test them.

Z6 II + advertised 14 fps
-only 12 bit RAW, single AF point, no live view
-for 14bit RAW > down to 10 FPS
-for Live View > down to 5.5FPS

R6 + advertised 20FPS
-electronic shutter drops to 12bit readout
-drops with below 50% battery

R5 + advertised 20FPS
-electronic shutter drops to 12bit readout
-drops with below 50% battery
R5 + advertised 12 FPS mechanical
-drops to 13 bit readout
-for 14bit readout speed drops to 8 fps

And that is without slow down due to AF. Getting side by side tests from you is essential

Nov 9, 2021*permalink

JE River

I think I might be too cash-poor to keep visiting this website. :(

Even though I shoot Sony APS-C, I would kill to have that fully articulating screen. The regular flip out screen is utterly useless for low-angle tripod work in portrait orientation. But, us Sony APS-C shooters are well-groomed to be neglected, so it might seem very strange if we finally got some love. haha

Nov 9, 2021permalink