Like much of the DPReview staff, editor Barney Britton is a self-proclaimed super-fan of the 35mm focal length. The Sony Cyber-shot RX1R II has the same permanently affixed 35mm F2 lens as its predecessor, but it is backed up by almost completely new internals, including the same 42MP full-frame sensor and autofocus system as the Sony a7R II. Barney's put the RX1R II through its paces in a wide variety of shooting scenarios, and shares his thoughts about what's new, what isn't, and more importantly, whether or not the Mark II version is worth the upgrade. For more sample images, click the link below.
I don't understand how this camera does not have an electronic shutter. They were able to include this feature in the A7RII & A7S/II. The RX1RII could really use this feature as its shutter maxes out at 1/4000! Can this be included via a firmware update, the way that the E-M1 got its electronic shutter?
I am familiar with leaf shutter. It doesn't go anything above the 1/4000, which is a problem for shooting wide open in bright day light. Pay attention to what I wrote.
At the risk of getting you even grumpier Angrymapie. There is always the potential of a variable ND filter in your bag which on a PERSONAL level I prefer to very high shutter speeds and what they bring to the table...Best Of The Season..
Not grumpier mate. I don't like using ND filter because it is fiddly for my style of shooting. I was pissy only because Thematic's rather lousy attitude. Being a Sony user myself, I always find it silly that so many people seem to like to take on the role of Sony loyalists to the death. The fact of the matter is having 1/8000 shutter speed is simply superior to having just 1/4000 when you pair your camera with a f2 lens. It is perfectly reasonable to express one's disappointment that such a high-end compact does not come up with a way to compensate for the lack of 1/8000 shutter speed. Electronic shutter is the way to go.
All good! I understand the fiddly issue. What I have noticed with electronic shutters - 'rolling shutter'. That said not a big deal and perhaps Sony will get there with the next iteration. Cheers.
Dear RX1R M2 and RX100 M4 owners, Can you turn of the sound completely for silent shooting? I have RX100M4 and couldnt find sound option in the menu. So I wonder if Rx1R Mark 2 is the same. Thanks.
Too many people complaining about the price. Jesus christ people. Life isn't cheap, nor is this camera. Its a far better value than LEICA or really any other compact full frame camera out there. I had to return the mark 1 when I had it because I had become accustomed to the 36mp files that just looked more natural and film like to me than the smaller mp of the rx1r. Now that its the bigger sensor, I can use it for work and travel. The price point is TOTALLY fair for what you get with this camera.
I liked your comment about Leica, value for money.... However Leica equipment does last a long time, given the occasional service. I use a 1970s 40mm f2 Summicron successfully on M4-P, M9 and M240. Will Sony equipment last? Will old lenses get excluded by changing technology? Philip
Using this camera now, I can see myself using it for a very long time without needing to upgrade it. Its the perfect camera. A leica film camera will last a long long time. Film is still relevant in my life and my contax g2 will get use as long as it continues to last.
Sluggish=A camera that freezes up, lacks responsive controls. This just is just not something a 3000 camera should do period.Though, it has many features that would seem to justify the price. I'm not going to want to carry around a nice a camera like this if I'm always clearing a buffer. And trying to run that sensor off an rx100 battery?
"Video Summary", where does it say that. It does say video overview, where did I say I was summarizing anything - this was simply put my take on the video overview.
RidgeRunner22,
I have an RX1RM2, I shoot RAW it has not frozen once waiting for the buffer to clear and I always shoot in burst mode. So if you are having this problem with your RX1RM2 you should have it checked-out. As for the battery life - last go around for me was about 230 shots over a 2 hour period, with energy save set to 5 minutes - with loss of two bars..it could gone longer but I couldn't :) I am not sure where you got issues about 'lacks responsive controls' in the Video Overview. In fairness I will re-watch it.
Having the RX1R, I think I prefer the removable EVF. Sure it's not as convenient and a bit more fiddly but it tilts up, has a built in rubber cover and I don't lose my built in flash for situations where I need a bit of fill flash. It also sits in the middle of the camera rather than on the side which I prefer but maybe others don't mind either way.
80+ Meg for uncompressed RAW...yikes. I thought the RAW files from the RX1R were large. You practically need to buy a new computer to go along with the RX1R II just to process the photos.
They said it was different - I assume it's of the new breed of EVF's that the R II and S II also have - better response, image, clarity. The difference between the 7 II and the 7R II EVF is night and day, too.
I apologize I should have been a bit more specific...the best comparison is to the A7RII ILC.. I have the RX100 MK4 and it is a very poor second cousin to the pop-up viewfinder on the RX1RM2..
The A7RII Mirrorless ILC: EVF size is 0.5" EVF Pixel Count 2.3M EVF Eye point 23mm EVF Magnification 0.78
The RX1RM2: EVF Size 0.5 EVF Pixel Count 2.4 EVF Eye Point 23mm EVF Magnification 0.74
EthanP99 Please, with respect read the entire thread. Of course you can't compare them..which was my point in the first place. At any rate as I originally said they are vastly (RX1RM2/RX100M4) different. Thank you pointing it out once again. Cheers to you.
I mentioned it because someone reading your numbers could think that its a very close figure going from .73 to .79 when in reality its huge because of the sensor size difference.
Sounds pretty much like my RX1 original.... superb build and even better image quality.
But lethargic responsiveness, fiddly EVF (add-on, in my case), less than ideal ergonomics and control, etc...
...relegates it to the shelf where its sat all of last year. Meanwhile, the Fuji X100s (flaws and all) has gone through thousands of shutter actuations
Except this is like a RX1 that can actually focus... I've had family members pick up a RX1 and then hand it back to me saying 'it's broken, it won't focus' at a party.
The RX1R II is like the opposite of that - not only can it focus, it can focus quickly, in low light, and even continuously, and even precisely on eyes.
That's a game-changing difference over the first iteration, for some, anyway.
And how good are the alternatives? Exactly, there are none. Monster resolution & best in class FF sensor, splendid lens, jacket pocket size, EVF, tilt screen. If this is your thing, the RX1rII is the camera to get. Period. Is it perfect? Nah. But no camera is.
Conversely, if you can make do with very good as opposed to epic RAW picture quality and DOF flexibility, you can save a stack of dosh and get better handling
Hmm, that's a strange review. Not sure if it's intentional but it makes the camera look rather bad. After watching the whole video all I could remember is bad UI, bad responsiveness, bad battery, bad eye cover... I would not want to buy this camera based on this review. There is no analysis of image quality, autofocus, ergonomics, lens quality, competition, etc. And even if I missed any of this, it means it wasn't presented well. And on top of that, the accent and fast pronunciation make it difficult to understand for some of your audience. Just wanted to share my honest impression. Personally, I like camara reviewes of The Camera Store on YouTube and this one was lacking in comparison.
If you think a camera is in the ballpark feature-wise (in this case a fixed lens FF with a high MP output) then it's wise to just go an try one for yourself, not rely on someone else's opinion.
You may find that some of this stuff doesn't bother you, you may find more not to like. Barney does actually say there is a lot of positive aspects as well.
And as already said, this isn't the review, it's an accompaniment.
First off it wasn't a review. Second is not DPR job to sell you stuff or present it in such way as to stimulate or entice the buyer. At least that's the charter of DPR I know of. People that are interested in this will buy it no matter what anyone says, and they want to know what is NOT in the specs sheet. If you don't get that, then you know very little about consumer psychology.
I had been big sony fan, I totally dig this, but I have mixed feelings how sony is trying to become a leica with their pricing. I thought the first R1 was overpriced. On the other hand all sony branded stores in my city were closed down because of low sales - so they can wave in front of my nose the new multi-thousand $ camera and talk how they are reaching to new highs but the reality is different for sony.
Sony isn't going Leica. Full frame has always been pretty expensive but Sony still sells their old A7 for just around $1k which makes it the cheapest full frame camera of all time.
Nothing of Leica is the cheapest anything I can assure you ! :P
Leica rests on the strength of its name so much so it can literally strip away features from an existing camera, and re-introduce it as a new product.
Sony has no credibility in the imaging business and so every new products breaks some grounds in 1 way or another.
Leica calls on a washed-up pop-rock artist to stamp his name on a camera and sells its for the price of a Toyota. Leica markets an APS-C camera by pointing out some "artisans" spent 40 man-hours polishing the case. And prices it out identically to a Sony body that features a class-leading sensor stabilized along 5 axes.
If you want cheaper, they have the Alpha 6xxx series.
If you can afford more for a top-notch sensor and lens combination, there is the RX1. And yet,, its still cheaper than the Leica Q....
Leave it to Leica to scour the paint off a new body and upsell it "special edition"
This RX1 is really a great concept camera, aside from the price. Maybe the shape of things to come in consumer products for people that want the best FF sensor but retain the convenience of small size. Basically for when the iphone doesn't cut it, which is on scenic trips, night outs etc. I think enthusiasts will gravitate toward something like this more and more in the future rather than a bulky camera that is going to stay home 99% of the time. I am surprised that Canon and Nikon did not take notice to this segment. Or maybe they did but they just can't pull it off.
Maybe in the name of practicality Sony should've made a bit of a grip at the front, where the right hand fingers are, and use the extra room to adopt the larger NPFW50 battery for their E-mount cameras.
Do I need my eyes checked? I'm not "seeing a real difference" between the magnified "glowing 30" numbers at about 1:40 into the video ... comparing uRAW to cRAW.
If anything, the slightly different magnification of the uRAW and cRAW may impact the visual impression created.
Not at all - it can be a subtle thing, and is hard to see through the relatively low resolution of this video and all the compression YouTube adds.
You can see the effects much more clearly here, in closer crops of the images fro the video: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6144418951/what-difference-does-it-make-sony-uncompressed-raw
Replicating is pretty easy. Shooting a dimly lit scene with some fairly high contrast bright / dark edges seems to show it. Pushing it five stops, as we did in the video, exacerbates the problem, but you don't necessarily need to do that, as you can see in the Space Needle + moon shot here:
Again, this is super subtle. In my personal photography, I'd be hard-pressed to notice these types of things. (My Nikon D700 is set to lossy compressed 12-bit Raw, and though that and the a7 series are apples and oranges, I've never noticed any issues to make me re-think my settings.)
Are you (Carey) part of DPR? Usually, there is some kind of identifier for them. Or a person who participated in making the video? The DPR family is a "big tent", especially taking into account the Amazon Big Dog. :-;
Artifacts are visible at high contrast edges, especially upon many forms of post-processing. The artifacts along the crescent moon in the link Carey posted above would be visible in a larger-sized print, and easily seen at 100%, or less even.
The reason that Nikon's lossy compressed 12-bit Raw is actually 'visually lossless' is because NEF compress 'is clever', as beautifully explained by Dr. Emil Martinec here.
NEF compression takes advantage of the principles of shot noise to compress data in a visually lossless manner. Sony compression also does this to a certain extent, but their compression curve appears to throw away a little more data on the lower end (which may or may not matter b/c of non-zero read noise anyway) but, more importantly, performs additional compression on top of all this that Nikon does not do. That's what leads to the artifacts at high contrast edges.
DPR'ers (including iconic Rishi and non-iconic Carery :-)
Thanks for the follow-up.
My less-than-informed observation is that the Adobe DngConverter does at least a satisfactory job of "pragmatic lossless compression" from uRAW .arw's. There are some very knowledgeable forum members who would claim otherwise, perhaps including IB (the author of RawDigger).
My understanding is that the issue might be some secondary (non-essential?) bits are left out or maybe even corrupted. Also, there seem to be 8 or more "guard pixels" on the sides and/or top as the a7Rii is "reduced" in size to the 7952x5304 dimensions. Maybe some missing EXIF?
Would it be possible to check this, perhaps in collaboration with IB and/or JK (of "The Last Word" blog)?
For example, does uRAW to .dng via DngConverter avoid the artifacts in the "moon over Seattle" capture? How about some/most/all of the artifacts in other cRAW problematic captures?
@Rishi, Emil got those values from me and his photon noise explanation explanation is not unlike the CIE Lightness explanation I give in my [NEF Compression](http://www.photonstophotos.net/NikonInfo/NEF_Compression.htm) article. Also, that excellent Open Forums post is only a portion of his larger article [Noise, Dynamic Range and Bit Depth in Digital SLRs](http://www.photonstophotos.net/Emil%20Martinec/noise.html) (see page 3 The Consequences of Noise for An aside on "lossy" NEF compression) Regards P.S. - What is the correct URL syntax in these posts?
It's intended to stimulate salivation in the consumer mouth, like a ferrari or a lambo. Then you have no problem going out there and buying a camry, or, in this case, an A6000. ;-)
Worth every Penny. Stop complaining. Look at the MP count? The stellar lens, and the compactness. What would this have cost 3 years ago? Its a freaking STEAL for what it is. I can now travel with one tiny camera and not really desire any other camera.
Add a touch screen to navigate, review, and focus. Add icon screen navigation like a phone so I can put commands in any order I choose by screen like a phone. Doing this would automatically reorganize actual menus for those who want to use them. A shooting screen with only those things I want showing on it, and commands one swipe to the left. 1st screen my favs, 2nd screen next most important to me, etc. etc. $99 per month with 30 month contract.
UGH.... what happened to DPReview? It seems like they are loosing their touch with photography. The carious little quirks outweigh the fact that this compact, tiny camera can shoot better photos than a 5D Mark III or Nikon D750?
i would argue that exactly the opposite is true, and that DPR is finally, after many years, 'getting in touch with photography'. I started here in 2004 and it was all about the tech, all about the cameras, very little about the photography. But that's just me...
I agree with SJ. The technology of digital cameras is now so good it exceeds most users requirements. Now we are getting back to the actual experience of taking photographs, the thing the cameras were designed for, as the more important factor. I thought it was a very good video, and I'd be happy to see more "wandering around taking pictures" videos.
Great Video, Barney. One can only hope that Sony would post this time Firmware Updates for the 2nd Gen. RX1R Camera. Also, sad to see the Interface/Camera behaviour is sluggish still, for that much money, but it's nice to see Sony added here at least also uncompressed RAW for those who need it (and buying it).
I had both for a time. I giggled when the 35mm RX1 out resolved the Summilux f1.4 in all apertures, at all ISO's, and in all corners of the frame. Of course the equivalent focal length in the m43 format didn't stand a chance either.
In my experience with both the camera in this video and other a7 models, it's the cold boot-up that is an issue (after the camera has sat for some time or had a battery swap). If you've just turned it off a few minutes ago and then re-boot it up, then it's pretty quick.
But, if you're swapping batteries all the time or holding them in your glove / pocket to keep them warm, as is so often the case with the RX1R II, that cold boot up time is pretty annoying.
Sam, haha my brain is idle when I come here. That's why I do, to relax. I suggest you try the same. However, batteries are T sensitive especially flat ones with lots of surface area. The concept of cozying up 'stuff' in cold climates to reduce the effect of cold temps is common place.
Seriously? You could buy a lot of smartphones as well which not only take pictures but surf, send email, make phone calls, etc. etc. which makes a smartphone substantially more useable that your Lumix overpriced toy.
If the idea that fixed focal length lenses, especially wide angles are simply better quality than zooms doesn't matter to you then of course, there's no justification for this camera. But prime lenses are better and probably always will be.
I don't understand the continual harping about the Sony menu design. I've used Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony cameras and frankly all have opaque and cryptic menu systems.
I agree - the Sony is no better than Canon 5D3 IMHO or a Panny G series I had a while ago.
The Olympus menus are worse though, but they have a feature called a 'Super Menu' which gets all your shooting settings in one place that's really easy to navigate.
It would be great if Sony did the same. At least the RX1r MKII has 3 dial controlled configurable memory settings.
But as they appear not to deliver value-add firmware releases like other manufacturers (from what I can see on this forum) it is what is.
I know it's obvious to say 'if it were cheaper they'd sell more', but I do feel that they should be pricing this product somewhere between an RX100mk4 and the A7rii.
Seems more logical to have it as an aspirational compact or an entry-level to full frame goodness.
Wildly over priced. Even if it's the best 35mm focal length camera with best 35mm sensor...not being able to change lenses sucks.
I had my Canon EOS M with 22mm prime lens in San Francisco which gives you a 35.2mm crop, and I used my Panasonic 20x zoom for 800 of the 1100 pics taken.
Way better image quality out of the canon, but so much more I could do with the zoom.
They won't sell many, but it's not a boutique thing. You want the best lens quality in a wide angle, avoid zooms. Simple. OTOH, you want a camera that's small and versatile, this Sony is only one of those things.
The problem here is that Sony are embarrassing themselves in this department. Maybe the business doesn't care, but others offer menus that graphically show you which button you are assigning, or let you assign the button by just holding it down. Making more logical menus, or allowing the user to have a menu with his frequently accessed items isn't rocket science. Sony could figure it out.
"For example, 22 AF options are split across 11 different submenu pages under 2 different main menu headers. The lack of organization is inexplicable, but what makes it even worse is the lack of a customizable 'My Menu', which would at least have allowed user to collate all frequently used menu options under customizable tabs. It's silly that I have to go to the second line of the fifth page of the sixth tab simply to format my memory card, something you might (and should) often do."
Agreed. I believe that many people expect the cookie cutter and very outdated menu systems of the Canon and Nikon considering it is what most people have been using since cameras first became digital.
And what's that? Three more seconds? Five? I tthink we have all become anxious creatures. Personally, I'd rather have a camera with speed, apreture ring on the lens, iso, wb selection and that's about it. Simplicity is not in this world anymore. Five seconds searching in a menu? Relax.
"For example, 22 AF options are split across 11 different submenu pages under 2 different main menu headers that aren't even labeled or organized as AF-related."
What that means is that you will almost never memorize what option is where; I haven't in weeks of use, and I am one of the more understanding, forgiving members on our team re: the Sony UI, because I feel a lot of the initial antagonism are simply teething, familiarity issues.
The point is: you don't go to options, you randomly search for them. Every time. That's not seconds of time, that can actually be tens of seconds, especially b/c you run past options as you flick quickly through the menus, so often I find myself going back multiple times over the same pages. That's not a few seconds. That's not even 5 seconds. Sometimes it is. Often it's not.
That's the difference between getting a shot & missing it with your head deep inside the menus.
For most of the shot related things there is the fn-Button custom menu. I dont know how often you will miss a shot because you forget to format your memory card :)
A bit anoying is that you can't configure every menu point on FN menu and custom buttons. For moving targets i woukd love to quickly turn of automatic focus magnification, but it is not in the list.
By the way, i hope you finally figured out quickly setting of a focus point :) If not, just set the Center button to Standard, push the center button once while in focus point Mode. Then you can move the focus point directly. And please update your A7RII review :) Maybe not as fast as the dedicated button with nikon or canon, but at least half way there.
You're making the exact same points we did @Spellbinder...
We've already said that Sony needs a My Menu option specifically because not all Menu options are available in the Fn menu. So either make everything available in the Fn menu (like movie options, and APS-C crop options), or make a My Menu available or, ideally, both to cover all your bases.
Finally figured out how to quickly move the focus point? No, you misunderstand us entirely. I know very well that you can hit the Center button to adjust the AF point. But that's not fast enough. Not for a working pro, compared to a dedicated joystick or D-Pad. It's an unacceptable extra step/barrier for professionals. Furthermore, this extra step is exacerbated by the fact that every now and then the buttons on the camera don't even respond (either b/c the camera is slow or b/c the ergonomics of the buttons are so poor that often button presses don't register). I spend a good portion of my a7R II Conclusions talking about this...
There's no replacement for a dedicated AF selection method. I'm not even saying a joystick is best - I can in fact think of something even better. But dedicated AF point selection needs to exist. Or the 'Lock-on AF' system needs to function as well as Nikon's 3D tracking - with Nikons, I rarely select my AF point, I let the camera select it b/c it's that good at tracking my initial subject.
And btw, it's not best to set the Center button to 'Standard' - that makes the Center button useless in most camera modes, b/c it's assigned to 'Center Lock-on AF' - a mode no one should ever use on the new Sony's, since it's been replaced by the far more usable 'Lock-on AF: Center'.
Rather, set the Center button to 'Focus Settings', which always allows you to use the 4-way pad to move your AF point, or turn the dial to change AF area.
Oh, except on the RX1 cameras, you can't assign that to the Center button. Which is precisely why we're complaining about the 'Cybershot' philosophy of it...
If Sony were to refine the UI a bit more, maybe including some features/menus based on rigorous study of easy-of-use (ergonomics) before implementing them; they would have even more a winner. IMO even though it lacks a bit in the UI experience, it's already a winner as it is.
Why not get things right before it goes on sale? I hate these dopey car analogies (almost as bad as "built like a tank") but I wouldn't buy a new car that was a couple updates from greatness.
@AbrasiveReducer - it's actually a fine camera, and every bit the 'finished product' that Sony intended.
The gap is between Barney's view of what it *should do* and what Sony think makes a good camera. As there is no such thing as the perfect camera, it's up to us consumers to decide whether the product on offer meets our needs.
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