Video: a look at the Sony Cyber-shot RX1R II

At the risk of getting you even grumpier Angrymapie. There is always the potential of a variable ND filter in your bag which on a PERSONAL level I prefer to very high shutter speeds and what they bring to the table...Best Of The Season..

9 months agopermalink

Angrymagpie

Not grumpier mate. I don't like using ND filter because it is fiddly for my style of shooting.
I was pissy only because Thematic's rather lousy attitude. Being a Sony user myself, I always find it silly that so many people seem to like to take on the role of Sony loyalists to the death. The fact of the matter is having 1/8000 shutter speed is simply superior to having just 1/4000 when you pair your camera with a f2 lens. It is perfectly reasonable to express one's disappointment that such a high-end compact does not come up with a way to compensate for the lack of 1/8000 shutter speed. Electronic shutter is the way to go.

9 months agopermalink

All good! I understand the fiddly issue. What I have noticed with electronic shutters - 'rolling shutter'. That said not a big deal and perhaps Sony will get there with the next iteration. Cheers.

9 months agopermalink

korayus

Dear RX1R M2 and RX100 M4 owners,
Can you turn of the sound completely for silent shooting? I have RX100M4 and couldnt find sound option in the menu. So I wonder if Rx1R Mark 2 is the same.
Thanks.

9 months agopermalink

I have both..they can operate completely silently. Check-out "Audio Signals" in your RX100IV manual. Hope this is helpful.

9 months agopermalink

nycgazelle

Too many people complaining about the price. Jesus christ people. Life isn't cheap, nor is this camera. Its a far better value than LEICA or really any other compact full frame camera out there. I had to return the mark 1 when I had it because I had become accustomed to the 36mp files that just looked more natural and film like to me than the smaller mp of the rx1r. Now that its the bigger sensor, I can use it for work and travel. The price point is TOTALLY fair for what you get with this camera.

9 months agopermalink

PLAMBERT

I liked your comment about Leica, value for money.... However
Leica equipment does last a long time, given the occasional service.
I use a 1970s 40mm f2 Summicron successfully on M4-P, M9 and M240. Will Sony equipment last? Will old lenses get excluded by changing technology?
Philip

9 months agopermalink

nycgazelle

Using this camera now, I can see myself using it for a very long time without needing to upgrade it. Its the perfect camera. A leica film camera will last a long long time. Film is still relevant in my life and my contax g2 will get use as long as it continues to last.

8 months agopermalink

Here is what I took away, your mileage will vary depending on your point of view.

1. Eye AF is 'astonishingly' good.

2. Low Light AF is better than the previous model by a long way.
Some discussion about hybrid AF

3. 'Exceptional' resolution with high ISO.

4. Good to excellent JPG engine.

5. RAW Mode now has uncompressed which makes for excellent detailed files at the cost of file size and disk space, etc.

6. Changeable low pass filter - the first in the industry.

7. Excellent pop-up EVF (better implementation then RX100 series)

8. Battery is to small (but doesn't tell us about his set-up - airplane mode, etc)

9. Included is a USB outboard battery charger

10. 'Sluggish' (a very opened comment without much detail)
(Complicate AF Modes, no stabilizer - distracting flashing ICON)

11. Sony Menus complaint - although Tile Menu option helps.

12. No touch screen

13. A few firmware updates away from 'Greatness'

14. Quirks out weighted by cameras abilities...

9 months ago*permalink

RidgeRunner22

Sluggish=A camera that freezes up, lacks responsive controls. This just is just not something a 3000 camera should do period.Though, it has many features that would seem to justify the price. I'm not going to want to carry around a nice a camera like this if I'm always clearing a buffer. And trying to run that sensor off an rx100 battery?

9 months ago*permalink

Thematic

Did you just try to summarize a video summary?

9 months agopermalink

Thematic

As for what dpreview left out that mentioned - remember this isn't their review.

It is a video summary.

9 months agopermalink

attomole

Err Spoiler alert!

9 months agopermalink

Thematic,

"Video Summary", where does it say that. It does say video overview, where did I say I was summarizing anything - this was simply put my take on the video overview.

RidgeRunner22,

I have an RX1RM2, I shoot RAW it has not frozen once waiting for the buffer to clear and I always shoot in burst mode. So if you are having this problem with your RX1RM2 you should have it checked-out. As for the battery life - last go around for me was about 230 shots over a 2 hour period, with energy save set to 5 minutes - with loss of two bars..it could gone longer but I couldn't :) I am not sure where you got issues about 'lacks responsive controls' in the Video Overview. In fairness I will re-watch it.

9 months agopermalink

alolywu

Having the RX1R, I think I prefer the removable EVF. Sure it's not as convenient and a bit more fiddly but it tilts up, has a built in rubber cover and I don't lose my built in flash for situations where I need a bit of fill flash. It also sits in the middle of the camera rather than on the side which I prefer but maybe others don't mind either way.

80+ Meg for uncompressed RAW...yikes. I thought the RAW files from the RX1R were large. You practically need to buy a new computer to go along with the RX1R II just to process the photos.

9 months agopermalink

The II's compact EVF, if it's anything like the 100 IV's, seems too small to be fun.

9 months agopermalink

AstroStan

I have an RX1 and also like the original EVF for the reasons you enumerate. Except that it does tend to snag when carried in a pocket.

9 months agopermalink

Nothing says you have to shoot uncompressed raw but at least you now have the option.

9 months agopermalink

Just to be clear the RX1RM2 pop-up EVF is far and away superior to the RX100M4 pop-up EVF.

9 months agopermalink

They said it was different - I assume it's of the new breed of EVF's that the R II and S II also have - better response, image, clarity. The difference between the 7 II and the 7R II EVF is night and day, too.

It's still tiny on the RX1R II tho!

9 months agopermalink

I apologize I should have been a bit more specific...the best comparison is to the A7RII ILC.. I have the RX100 MK4 and it is a very poor second cousin to the pop-up viewfinder on the RX1RM2..

The A7RII Mirrorless ILC:
EVF size is 0.5"
EVF Pixel Count 2.3M
EVF Eye point 23mm
EVF Magnification 0.78

The RX1RM2:
EVF Size 0.5
EVF Pixel Count 2.4
EVF Eye Point 23mm
EVF Magnification 0.74

9 months agopermalink

EthanP99

You cant compare evf magnification from the two different sensor sizes.

.75 on an rx100 does not mean what that means on an a7

9 months agopermalink

EthanP99
Please, with respect read the entire thread. Of course you can't compare them..which was my point in the first place. At any rate as I originally said they are vastly (RX1RM2/RX100M4) different. Thank you pointing it out once again. Cheers to you.

9 months agopermalink

EthanP99

I mentioned it because someone reading your numbers could think that its a very close figure going from .73 to .79 when in reality its huge because of the sensor size difference.

9 months agopermalink

b0k3h

Sounds pretty much like my RX1 original.... superb build and even better image quality.

But lethargic responsiveness, fiddly EVF (add-on, in my case), less than ideal ergonomics and control, etc...

...relegates it to the shelf where its sat all of last year. Meanwhile, the Fuji X100s (flaws and all) has gone through thousands of shutter actuations

9 months agopermalink

Except this is like a RX1 that can actually focus... I've had family members pick up a RX1 and then hand it back to me saying 'it's broken, it won't focus' at a party.

The RX1R II is like the opposite of that - not only can it focus, it can focus quickly, in low light, and even continuously, and even precisely on eyes.

That's a game-changing difference over the first iteration, for some, anyway.

9 months agopermalink

Maklike Tier

Fingers crossed for the new Olympus Pen F, eh?

9 months agopermalink

ekaton

And how good are the alternatives? Exactly, there are none. Monster resolution & best in class FF sensor, splendid lens, jacket pocket size, EVF, tilt screen. If this is your thing, the RX1rII is the camera to get. Period. Is it perfect? Nah. But no camera is.

9 months agopermalink

attomole

Conversely, if you can make do with very good as opposed to epic RAW picture quality and DOF flexibility, you can save a stack of dosh and get better handling

9 months agopermalink

VadymA

Hmm, that's a strange review. Not sure if it's intentional but it makes the camera look rather bad. After watching the whole video all I could remember is bad UI, bad responsiveness, bad battery, bad eye cover... I would not want to buy this camera based on this review. There is no analysis of image quality, autofocus, ergonomics, lens quality, competition, etc. And even if I missed any of this, it means it wasn't presented well. And on top of that, the accent and fast pronunciation make it difficult to understand for some of your audience. Just wanted to share my honest impression. Personally, I like camara reviewes of The Camera Store on YouTube and this one was lacking in comparison.

9 months agopermalink

surelythisnameisfree

This wasn't their review

9 months agopermalink

If you think a camera is in the ballpark feature-wise (in this case a fixed lens FF with a high MP output) then it's wise to just go an try one for yourself, not rely on someone else's opinion.

You may find that some of this stuff doesn't bother you, you may find more not to like. Barney does actually say there is a lot of positive aspects as well.

And as already said, this isn't the review, it's an accompaniment.

9 months agopermalink

Mattoid

Yeah, the nerve of them having an English accent in an English language review!

9 months agopermalink

First off it wasn't a review. Second is not DPR job to sell you stuff or present it in such way as to stimulate or entice the buyer. At least that's the charter of DPR I know of.
People that are interested in this will buy it no matter what anyone says, and they want to know what is NOT in the specs sheet. If you don't get that, then you know very little about consumer psychology.

9 months agopermalink

LaFonte

I had been big sony fan, I totally dig this, but I have mixed feelings how sony is trying to become a leica with their pricing. I thought the first R1 was overpriced.
On the other hand all sony branded stores in my city were closed down because of low sales - so they can wave in front of my nose the new multi-thousand $ camera and talk how they are reaching to new highs but the reality is different for sony.

9 months agopermalink

brendon1000

Sony isn't going Leica. Full frame has always been pretty expensive but Sony still sells their old A7 for just around $1k which makes it the cheapest full frame camera of all time.

Nothing of Leica is the cheapest anything I can assure you ! :P

9 months agopermalink

b0k3h

How is Sony and Leica remotely comparable?

Leica rests on the strength of its name so much so it can literally strip away features from an existing camera, and re-introduce it as a new product.

Sony has no credibility in the imaging business and so every new products breaks some grounds in 1 way or another.

Leica calls on a washed-up pop-rock artist to stamp his name on a camera and sells its for the price of a Toyota. Leica markets an APS-C camera by pointing out some "artisans" spent 40 man-hours polishing the case. And prices it out identically to a Sony body that features a class-leading sensor stabilized along 5 axes.

If you want cheaper, they have the Alpha 6xxx series.

If you can afford more for a top-notch sensor and lens combination, there is the RX1. And yet,, its still cheaper than the Leica Q....

Leave it to Leica to scour the paint off a new body and upsell it "special edition"

9 months agopermalink

PVCdroid

It's all about the sensor. Many think it's about the body and features.

Price an i7 computer compared to an i3. It's the same thing with cameras and with bsi there is a big cost to this technology.

9 months agopermalink

This RX1 is really a great concept camera, aside from the price. Maybe the shape of things to come in consumer products for people that want the best FF sensor but retain the convenience of small size. Basically for when the iphone doesn't cut it, which is on scenic trips, night outs etc. I think enthusiasts will gravitate toward something like this more and more in the future rather than a bulky camera that is going to stay home 99% of the time. I am surprised that Canon and Nikon did not take notice to this segment. Or maybe they did but they just can't pull it off.

9 months agopermalink

Everlast66

Maybe in the name of practicality Sony should've made a bit of a grip at the front, where the right hand fingers are, and use the extra room to adopt the larger NPFW50 battery for their E-mount cameras.

9 months agopermalink

Mike FL

For video, does Sony RX1R II ever have any kind of IS?

9 months agopermalink

EthanP99

Taking my rx1 out today :)

9 months agopermalink

Do I need my eyes checked? I'm not "seeing a real difference" between the magnified "glowing 30" numbers at about 1:40 into the video ... comparing uRAW to cRAW.

If anything, the slightly different magnification of the uRAW and cRAW may impact the visual impression created.

9 months ago*permalink

Carey Rose

Not at all - it can be a subtle thing, and is hard to see through the relatively low resolution of this video and all the compression YouTube adds.

You can see the effects much more clearly here, in closer crops of the images fro the video: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6144418951/what-difference-does-it-make-sony-uncompressed-raw

9 months agopermalink

Good point. Thanks for the catch.

It would help for DPR to provide a link to full RAW .arw's of the equivalent of the "glowing 30's ". Perhaps they have?

Also, guidance on how to replicate would be appreciated.

For me, Adobe DngConverter provides more than satisfactory "pragmatic lossless compression" of uRAW's.

9 months agopermalink

Carey Rose

Replicating is pretty easy. Shooting a dimly lit scene with some fairly high contrast bright / dark edges seems to show it. Pushing it five stops, as we did in the video, exacerbates the problem, but you don't necessarily need to do that, as you can see in the Space Needle + moon shot here:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2834066212/the-raw-and-the-cooked-pulling-apart-sony-raw-compression

Again, this is super subtle. In my personal photography, I'd be hard-pressed to notice these types of things. (My Nikon D700 is set to lossy compressed 12-bit Raw, and though that and the a7 series are apples and oranges, I've never noticed any issues to make me re-think my settings.)

9 months ago*permalink

Thanks for the follow-up.

Are you (Carey) part of DPR? Usually, there is some kind of identifier for them. Or a person who participated in making the video? The DPR family is a "big tent", especially taking into account the Amazon Big Dog. :-;

9 months agopermalink

Artifacts are visible at high contrast edges, especially upon many forms of post-processing. The artifacts along the crescent moon in the link Carey posted above would be visible in a larger-sized print, and easily seen at 100%, or less even.

The reason that Nikon's lossy compressed 12-bit Raw is actually 'visually lossless' is because NEF compress 'is clever', as beautifully explained by Dr. Emil Martinec here.

NEF compression takes advantage of the principles of shot noise to compress data in a visually lossless manner. Sony compression also does this to a certain extent, but their compression curve appears to throw away a little more data on the lower end (which may or may not matter b/c of non-zero read noise anyway) but, more importantly, performs additional compression on top of all this that Nikon does not do. That's what leads to the artifacts at high contrast edges.

Not anymore, though. :)

And, yes, Carey's a DPR Admin.

9 months agopermalink

You should get CR the little DPR badge of honor by it's name for Xmas. ;-)

9 months agopermalink

DPR'ers (including iconic Rishi and non-iconic Carery :-)

Thanks for the follow-up.

My less-than-informed observation is that the Adobe DngConverter does at least a satisfactory job of "pragmatic lossless compression" from uRAW .arw's. There are some very knowledgeable forum members who would claim otherwise, perhaps including IB (the author of RawDigger).

My understanding is that the issue might be some secondary (non-essential?) bits are left out or maybe even corrupted. Also, there seem to be 8 or more "guard pixels" on the sides and/or top as the a7Rii is "reduced" in size to the 7952x5304 dimensions. Maybe some missing EXIF?

Would it be possible to check this, perhaps in collaboration with IB and/or JK (of "The Last Word" blog)?

For example, does uRAW to .dng via DngConverter avoid the artifacts in the "moon over Seattle" capture? How about some/most/all of the artifacts in other cRAW problematic captures?

9 months ago*permalink

bclaff

@Rishi,
Emil got those values from me and his photon noise explanation explanation is not unlike the CIE Lightness explanation I give in my [NEF Compression](http://www.photonstophotos.net/NikonInfo/NEF_Compression.htm) article.
Also, that excellent Open Forums post is only a portion of his larger article [Noise, Dynamic Range and Bit Depth in Digital SLRs](http://www.photonstophotos.net/Emil%20Martinec/noise.html) (see page 3 The Consequences of Noise for An aside on "lossy" NEF compression)
Regards
P.S. - What is the correct URL syntax in these posts?

9 months ago*permalink

ozturert

Excellent lens, excellent sensor, sluggish user experience (menus, review etc..).
Why Sony, why... This is a $3000+ camera. Whhhhhhhyyyyyyyyy....

9 months agopermalink

meanwhile

Yep, they have the margins on a camera like this to up the processor speed, the bandwidth, buffer, etc. It should be done.

Does the RX1RII still have the slow ~35MB/sec write speed bottleneck? They've had a couple of years to increase this now, it's time to up the ante.

9 months agopermalink

Sam808

Because they want and they CAN rip you off!!!

9 months agopermalink

meanwhile

I think it's likely slightly more nuanced than that. :-)

9 months agopermalink

It's intended to stimulate salivation in the consumer mouth, like a ferrari or a lambo. Then you have no problem going out there and buying a camry, or, in this case, an A6000. ;-)

9 months ago*permalink

nycgazelle

Worth every Penny. Stop complaining. Look at the MP count? The stellar lens, and the compactness. What would this have cost 3 years ago? Its a freaking STEAL for what it is. I can now travel with one tiny camera and not really desire any other camera.

9 months agopermalink

ozturert

nycgazelle, have you actually read what I wrote? That's my idea, for you it may be worth. So I complain, you love. Free world :)

9 months agopermalink

NoMirror99

Add a touch screen to navigate, review, and focus. Add icon screen navigation like a phone so I can put commands in any order I choose by screen like a phone. Doing this would automatically reorganize actual menus for those who want to use them. A shooting screen with only those things I want showing on it, and commands one swipe to the left. 1st screen my favs, 2nd screen next most important to me, etc. etc. $99 per month with 30 month contract.

9 months ago*permalink

I prefer good lens but no TS to TS and bad lens ala canon.
But yes both TS and good lens should be on a 3300 cam in 2015!

9 months agopermalink

rialcnis

Sony should do a Cybershot RX1Sii basing it on the a7sii with the super low light and video greatness.

9 months agopermalink

Agree. I would happily go RX1 S + 10 II at that point. As it stand, I sold both the original RX1 and 10 II in favor of the S II.

9 months agopermalink

surelythisnameisfree

Not sure a fixed lens camera will ever be ideal for video

9 months agopermalink

I think you mean prime lens - there are hundreds of fixed lens video cameras in all shapes and sizes.

There are enough pixels to do 1x, 1.5x, 2.5x 4k on the R II - and for the S II, the same in 1080p.

In other words, you'd have a range of video options for both 4k and 1080p depending on which sensor they used, between 35mm and 85mm if they.

e.g. 35/50/85 crops / focal lengths already exist for video

9 months agopermalink

JaeLee

UGH.... what happened to DPReview? It seems like they are loosing their touch with photography. The carious little quirks outweigh the fact that this compact, tiny camera can shoot better photos than a 5D Mark III or Nikon D750?

COME ON DP REVIEW! GET BACK TO YOUR ROOTS!

9 months agopermalink

Simon Joinson

i would argue that exactly the opposite is true, and that DPR is finally, after many years, 'getting in touch with photography'. I started here in 2004 and it was all about the tech, all about the cameras, very little about the photography. But that's just me...

9 months agopermalink

Doctor J

I agree with SJ. The technology of digital cameras is now so good it exceeds most users requirements. Now we are getting back to the actual experience of taking photographs, the thing the cameras were designed for, as the more important factor. I thought it was a very good video, and I'd be happy to see more "wandering around taking pictures" videos.

9 months agopermalink

marc petzold

Great Video, Barney. One can only hope that Sony would post this time Firmware Updates for the 2nd Gen. RX1R Camera. Also, sad to see the Interface/Camera behaviour is sluggish still, for that much money, but it's nice to see Sony added here at least also uncompressed RAW for those who need it (and buying it).

9 months agopermalink

Sam808

Extreme lens Pincushion distortion for such a ridiculous price!

I think I would be happier with GM5 + prime lens combination.

9 months agopermalink

You just want pincushion on the cheap.

Go and take your pincushion addiction elsewhere!!!

9 months agopermalink

I had both for a time. I giggled when the 35mm RX1 out resolved the Summilux f1.4 in all apertures, at all ISO's, and in all corners of the frame. Of course the equivalent focal length in the m43 format didn't stand a chance either.

9 months agopermalink

Barney - I don't understand the boot time in this video - I can switch mine on and acquire focus lock in about 1sec flat.

Is it a configuration thing?

9 months agopermalink

Carey Rose

In my experience with both the camera in this video and other a7 models, it's the cold boot-up that is an issue (after the camera has sat for some time or had a battery swap). If you've just turned it off a few minutes ago and then re-boot it up, then it's pretty quick.

But, if you're swapping batteries all the time or holding them in your glove / pocket to keep them warm, as is so often the case with the RX1R II, that cold boot up time is pretty annoying.

9 months ago*permalink

I 'll have my wife start knitting some battery cozys. :)

9 months agopermalink

Sam808

You basically do not understand anything. Just trying to be sarcastic. hahaha

9 months agopermalink

Sam, haha
my brain is idle when I come here. That's why I do, to relax. I suggest you try the same. However, batteries are T sensitive especially flat ones with lots of surface area. The concept of cozying up 'stuff' in cold climates to reduce the effect of cold temps is common place.

9 months agopermalink

Walsh_uk

A7RII with the lens permanently ‘glued on’..

9 months agopermalink

SKPhoto12

For the price you can buy about five Lumix LX100, which as a compact high quality camera is substantially more useable than this Sony overpriced toy.

9 months agopermalink

Seriously?
You could buy a lot of smartphones as well which not only take pictures but surf, send email, make phone calls, etc. etc. which makes a smartphone substantially more useable that your Lumix overpriced toy.

9 months agopermalink

Mssimo

I have a hard time holding two cameras at the same time, i cant imagine trying to juggle five of them. Do you happen to be from the octopus family?

9 months agopermalink

Daft Punk

Nonsense. Just nonsense.

I guess you are harping because you can't afford it.

The quality in this camera is pretty obvious. Great sensor, great lens. A lot to like.

And its cheaper than a Leica !

9 months agopermalink

If the idea that fixed focal length lenses, especially wide angles are simply better quality than zooms doesn't matter to you then of course, there's no justification for this camera. But prime lenses are better and probably always will be.

9 months agopermalink

JT26

Idiot

9 months agopermalink

mandophoto

I don't understand the continual harping about the Sony menu design. I've used Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony cameras and frankly all have opaque and cryptic menu systems.

9 months agopermalink

I agree - the Sony is no better than Canon 5D3 IMHO or a Panny G series I had a while ago.

The Olympus menus are worse though, but they have a feature called a 'Super Menu' which gets all your shooting settings in one place that's really easy to navigate.

It would be great if Sony did the same. At least the RX1r MKII has 3 dial controlled configurable memory settings.

But as they appear not to deliver value-add firmware releases like other manufacturers (from what I can see on this forum) it is what is.

Maybe on the MK3.

9 months ago*permalink

The Squire

I know it's obvious to say 'if it were cheaper they'd sell more', but I do feel that they should be pricing this product somewhere between an RX100mk4 and the A7rii.

Seems more logical to have it as an aspirational compact or an entry-level to full frame goodness.

9 months agopermalink

Revenant

Surely it does cost less than an A7RII with a comparable lens?

9 months agopermalink

You are exactly right-on;
Using B&H pricing...
A7RII with a Zeiss 35mm F2 Loxia $4600US
RX1RM2 with a Zeiss 35mm F2 3300US

9 months agopermalink

The Squire

Fair point

9 months agopermalink

Richard Franiec

Bravo Barney,
Finally you've did something that no one can accuse DPR of being the Sony's (Canon, Nikon, Fuji....) shill LOL.
Cheers

9 months agopermalink

Don Sata

This is a rich man's toy.

9 months agopermalink

malabito

I had the previous version and for sure was not rich. It's a matter of perspectives, some eat three meals a day others eat 4 and some don't even eat.

9 months agopermalink

By what benchmark?

9 months agopermalink

Don Sata

From a Mexican middle class man's making 18 thousand dollars a year.

9 months ago*permalink

Maybe Don, but thats not who its targeted at. Its actually not who any high end camera is targeted at.

I would assume this camera is targeted at those in the family income bracket of $100K +/yr. That may see rich to you, but living in NA, its not.

9 months agopermalink

I was going to give up eating so I could buy a Lunar but then they dropped the price.

9 months agopermalink

morechitlins

@Sting $100k+/year is way more than the median household income in NA. True, this camera isn't targeting the average middle class in NA either.

9 months agopermalink

dwill23

Wildly over priced. Even if it's the best 35mm focal length camera with best 35mm sensor...not being able to change lenses sucks.

I had my Canon EOS M with 22mm prime lens in San Francisco which gives you a 35.2mm crop, and I used my Panasonic 20x zoom for 800 of the 1100 pics taken.

Way better image quality out of the canon, but so much more I could do with the zoom.

I'd buy this camera for $800, max.

9 months ago*permalink

nebulight

Then the Fuji X100 series is a camera for you. You aren't going to get top of the line anything for $800.

9 months agopermalink

ondrejbobek

Best 42Mpx FF sensor with good 35/2 lens and EVF in a small body for $800? :D Only for Free! ...and in three colors in one box.

9 months ago*permalink

malabito

Than this camera is not for you. Yes it's expensive, are you or me going to buy it probably not. Is it going to sell, for sure :)

9 months agopermalink

"I'd buy this camera for $800, max"

I'd buy a Ferrari for $20K, max. Now, back in the real world...

9 months ago*permalink

Daft Punk

Sony won't sell it to you for 800. They don't care.

If you don't see the value in a FF camera with a dedicated zeiss lens, then don't buy it.

9 months agopermalink

Mssimo

Let me borrow the "Progressive Insurance" price gun after you are done with it.
I'll take a Audi R8, Ferrari 488, Koenigsegg One:1 for $800, max.

9 months ago*permalink

They won't sell many, but it's not a boutique thing. You want the best lens quality in a wide angle, avoid zooms. Simple. OTOH, you want a camera that's small and versatile, this Sony is only one of those things.

9 months agopermalink

nebulight

Everyone seems to have issues with the Sony menus, am I the only one that doesn't really see a problem with them?

9 months agopermalink

tesilab

The problem here is that Sony are embarrassing themselves in this department. Maybe the business doesn't care, but others offer menus that graphically show you which button you are assigning, or let you assign the button by just holding it down.
Making more logical menus, or allowing the user to have a menu with his frequently accessed items isn't rocket science. Sony could figure it out.

9 months agopermalink

To quote our a7R II review:

"For example, 22 AF options are split across 11 different submenu pages under 2 different main menu headers. The lack of organization is inexplicable, but what makes it even worse is the lack of a customizable 'My Menu', which would at least have allowed user to collate all frequently used menu options under customizable tabs. It's silly that I have to go to the second line of the fifth page of the sixth tab simply to format my memory card, something you might (and should) often do."

9 months ago*permalink

JaeLee

Agreed. I believe that many people expect the cookie cutter and very outdated menu systems of the Canon and Nikon considering it is what most people have been using since cameras first became digital.

I personally LOVE the Sony menus.

9 months agopermalink

turvyT

And what's that? Three more seconds? Five? I tthink we have all become anxious creatures. Personally, I'd rather have a camera with speed, apreture ring on the lens, iso, wb selection and that's about it. Simplicity is not in this world anymore. Five seconds searching in a menu? Relax.

9 months agopermalink

Let me try again:

"For example, 22 AF options are split across 11 different submenu pages under 2 different main menu headers that aren't even labeled or organized as AF-related."

What that means is that you will almost never memorize what option is where; I haven't in weeks of use, and I am one of the more understanding, forgiving members on our team re: the Sony UI, because I feel a lot of the initial antagonism are simply teething, familiarity issues.

The point is: you don't go to options, you randomly search for them. Every time. That's not seconds of time, that can actually be tens of seconds, especially b/c you run past options as you flick quickly through the menus, so often I find myself going back multiple times over the same pages. That's not a few seconds. That's not even 5 seconds. Sometimes it is. Often it's not.

That's the difference between getting a shot & missing it with your head deep inside the menus.

Then there's the lack of My Menu...

9 months ago*permalink

Spellbinder

For most of the shot related things there is the fn-Button custom menu.
I dont know how often you will miss a shot because you forget to format your memory card :)

A bit anoying is that you can't configure every menu point on FN menu and custom buttons.
For moving targets i woukd love to quickly turn of automatic focus magnification, but it is not in the list.

By the way, i hope you finally figured out quickly setting of a focus point :)
If not, just set the Center button to Standard, push the center button once while in focus point Mode.
Then you can move the focus point directly.
And please update your A7RII review :)
Maybe not as fast as the dedicated button with nikon or canon, but at least half way there.

9 months agopermalink

You're making the exact same points we did @Spellbinder...

We've already said that Sony needs a My Menu option specifically because not all Menu options are available in the Fn menu. So either make everything available in the Fn menu (like movie options, and APS-C crop options), or make a My Menu available or, ideally, both to cover all your bases.

Finally figured out how to quickly move the focus point? No, you misunderstand us entirely. I know very well that you can hit the Center button to adjust the AF point. But that's not fast enough. Not for a working pro, compared to a dedicated joystick or D-Pad. It's an unacceptable extra step/barrier for professionals. Furthermore, this extra step is exacerbated by the fact that every now and then the buttons on the camera don't even respond (either b/c the camera is slow or b/c the ergonomics of the buttons are so poor that often button presses don't register). I spend a good portion of my a7R II Conclusions talking about this...

9 months agopermalink

There's no replacement for a dedicated AF selection method. I'm not even saying a joystick is best - I can in fact think of something even better. But dedicated AF point selection needs to exist. Or the 'Lock-on AF' system needs to function as well as Nikon's 3D tracking - with Nikons, I rarely select my AF point, I let the camera select it b/c it's that good at tracking my initial subject.

And btw, it's not best to set the Center button to 'Standard' - that makes the Center button useless in most camera modes, b/c it's assigned to 'Center Lock-on AF' - a mode no one should ever use on the new Sony's, since it's been replaced by the far more usable 'Lock-on AF: Center'.

Rather, set the Center button to 'Focus Settings', which always allows you to use the 4-way pad to move your AF point, or turn the dial to change AF area.

Oh, except on the RX1 cameras, you can't assign that to the Center button. Which is precisely why we're complaining about the 'Cybershot' philosophy of it...

9 months agopermalink

ProfHankD

Summary: Best IQ, still annoyed by Sony UI.
My view: BEST IQ!!! Still annoyed by price. ;-)

9 months ago*permalink

JF69

If Sony were to refine the UI a bit more, maybe including some features/menus based on rigorous study of easy-of-use (ergonomics) before implementing them;
they would have even more a winner.
IMO even though it lacks a bit in the UI experience, it's already a winner as it is.

9 months ago*permalink

Daft Punk

I don't understand the criticism of the menus. My RX100 menus are fine. Much better than Olympus for sure. On a par with a Nikon.

9 months agopermalink

NoMirror99

9 months ago*permalink

nathantw

What did he say? A couple firmware upgrades from greatness? LOL. From what I heard people who buy this will be lucky to get even one firmware upgrade.

9 months agopermalink

Why not get things right before it goes on sale? I hate these dopey car analogies (almost as bad as "built like a tank") but I wouldn't buy a new car that was a couple updates from greatness.

9 months agopermalink

I'm sad to say it appears to be a Sony MO that adding value with updates affects future sales.

Products at this price though, have a market with a different expectation.

They seen to have forgot (or never learnt?) that brand loyalty is built on customer loyalty from their side.

9 months agopermalink