In this video from Photokina, Panasonic's Matt Frazer walks us through the features of the new Lumix DMC-LX100 compact camera. Matt also explains Panasonic's use of a multi-aspect four thirds sensor, discusses lens design and manufacture, and explains the camera's 4K video capabilities.
It's funny people should comment on the knowledge of the guy- of course he knows something about the camera, it's his job. Having said that, he IS a nice guy and that reminds me of Pana's french rep. He also is a nice guy and he said himself he doesn't know why they chose him because he is an unlikely choice but it seems they are happy with him as he's been doing his job for several years now.
As for "interview": this is a joint presentation, helped largely by Barney. There was not a single question if you don't consider "Why is this thing good?" an interview question. Why didn't you ask "Why no TS?" or "Was there a lot of discussion about leaving out the flash?" or "Were you sure that the target audience would not frown an 12 MP these days?" or "Why no ND-filter?"or so many more- that would have been an interview. 95% of the stuff said in this video was already known to people who are interested in this camera.
Maybe Barney would care to chime in. If criticism is allowed, anyway...
Barney - you did very well to refrain from commenting on equivalence when he started talking focal lengths, apertures and fields of views.
For what it is worth I wish you guys would start a gentle discussion with the manufacturers so they start to make their equivalence claims more sensible, especially around light gathering and aperture.
I suspect you guys are one of the few organisations with the influence, weight and audience to start that conversation with the manufacturer's.
That single sentence sale pitch was a VERY long multi full stop" sentence"!!!!
With regards to the Leica Typ109- I don't think Leica will even try to show some "improvement" on the Pana. model (it's that good). You will pay the extra solely for the red dot- and the Lightroom.
What you get with the Typ 109 that differs, value is a matter of personal taste and needs: - different styling, loss of integrated small grip. A much cleaner look. - access to the Leica grip accessory which is larger than the LX100's stock grip - 3 year Leica warranty - LR5 if that matters to you - different jpg processing if you do shoot jpg (personal taste as to rendering) - DNG open RAW file format with Leica vs. Panny (I think it's RW2 and proprietary). - the added cost of the Leica - decreased cost of the Panny and accessories - the Red dot in exchange for losing all of the other printed stuff cluttering the Panny body...again, a matter of personal choice.
It was before I could read the exact specification. Actually I'm fairly disappointed because I was following the rumors from July and thought this camera would be ideal for me.
Just my words. X100T lacks it as well. Both are superior to most others in control and handling. It's hard to find the perfect camera. Hopefully they'll add GPS as well in 2 years!
I have the LX7 and satisfied with it but it happens very often that I'd need a tilt screen. I made a solution with a mirror so for low angle I can use it fairly well but for high angle it's uncomfortable. I hoped that this camera will solve this problem. Now I'm considering the FZ1000 instead of this.
Nice interview and I like the sales rep - seemed down to earth.
No touch screen - that's OK with me as I've turned it off on every camera I have that has one - too many times it's become more of a hindrance than a help for what I do.
No built-iin flash - this is perhaps the most troublesome missing feature for me as for a compact travel camera a built-in flash certainly comes in handy. But I must admit that having a fast lens and OIS will certainly help in this regard.
No swivel EVF - I use it occasionally on my GX-7, but it's not something I'd miss terribly
No tilting LCD - I think this is particularly problematic for me as I use this a lot on my GX-7 and A7R.
The LX100 would be a no-brainer for me if it had the swivel screen (and perhaps built-in flash) as it would replace my GX-7 + 12-35/2.8 for my general compact video rig.
I would have like to have seen them build in a flash, like the Fuji X100, into the front face plate of the body as a fill flash. It doesn't take up a lot of room, doesn't need to pop-up and should have been easily implemented. maybe in MII?
Swivel screen...why omit that? Even just a tilt would have been welcomed. I could care less about touch as well.
I may sell my 12-35/2.8 and get the LX100 in it's place. I've been using primes mostly on my GX7 anyways and for general video it's been the 12-35/2.8.
This seems like it would be a great backpacking camera, especially if it had the tilt screen and built-in flash.
Agreed- when I use my M- solely with a 35mm lens and finder, while I liook thru the finder, my nose hits the screen and the focal point shifts. "AArrgh!!
Well, it'll be easy for them to do mark II version of this camera: 1) add touch screen, 2) add flip mechanism to screen, 3) add built-in flash (but this may be difficult), 4) new sensor if one is ready.
For all the comparison with the Sony RX1000 III, it appears to me that the form factor makes it more of a competitor to the Fuji X100T. If this had the built-in flash, I would consider it more. But it is very similar in size to Olympus E-PM2 with 20mm f1.7 lens that I already have. So if I'm going to have to juggle-- bringing add-on accessories like clip flash--bringing add-on viewfinder for E-PM2 isn't that much different.
They could stack the shutter and exposure dials, probably put the exposure compensation dial on the bottom. The dial would look similar to the G7x dial except it'd be shutter on the top instead of a mode dial. That would give room on the top plate for a pop-up flash in the same location as the sony RX100m3
I'm with you on the touch screen, that should just be a question of cost. The articulating screen I really don't want. They add weight and take up extra room on the back of the camera that could otherwise be used for control surfaces. It has a cell phone remote which you can see what it's shooting on. Use that as your infinitely articulating and already removed rear screen. With shutter button!
Haha, it was funny to see Dpreview reminding Panasonic that the camera does 4K video :-)
Hmm and the Panasonic representative says "unfortunately it doesn't have a touch screen on this camera.." or such... I like his honesty but not good marketing PR :-)
pop up flash takes room. But a front plate flash, such as on the Fuji X100, would have worked IMO. Touch? No idea why not. Not a space or processing issue to deal with. Odd, but it doesn't matter to me.
With such amount of direct controls, missing a touchscreen is not that big of a deal. As for the lack of built-in flash, that's fairly obvious. There's no space for it. Instead, you get a proper hot-shoe, which gives you the ability to use proper flash. And with leaf shutter and high flash sync rates, that might be something that many people would like to have.
Tilting screen would be nice to have, thought. So maybe in Mk. II...
All in all, the compromises Panasonic had to make to create LX100 seem to be sensible. I'd say they did a good job of finding the right balance here, especially considering this is the first generation of this product.
I can say that the leave shutter synced till 1/2000th on the floor today.
the Leica Rep i spoke too said the mechanical leaf shutter goes up to 1/4000th. But i didn't have the flash output available to verify this on the floor.
Still a M43 sensor with a fast aperture lens and this leaf shutter makes for a insane strobist tool.
I don't think anything close to that performance is available for that kind of money.
I really like Frazer's honesty and enthusiasm here. I love how he says “our marketing says it's …”, and how he smirks at that whole “LX7 lens scaled up” marketing stuff.
The line “unfortunately there's no touchscreen on this camera” was particularly surprising and should have been a cue for the interviewer to ask: well, why not? I guess he didn't have had enough sleep, he looks a bit tired. Too bad.
I agree. I also smirked when they talked about the sensor and lens size difference being about multi-aspect when they've given that feature on other lenses without an oversized sensor behind the lens. They SHOULD have said something about keeping the lens dimensions down even compared to a small 4/3rds lens. Multi-aspect is part of it but this lens STILL crops the 4/3rds sensor even at 16:9 (and it's not like they offer a wider mode than that) so the lens being a little bigger would NOT affect their mutli-aspect ratio pitch.
LX100 16:9: 4480 x 2520 GX7 16:9: 4592 x 2584
Same sensor. That's a slight crop that could be removed by making the lens larger and more expensive. I'm not saying the entire crop in 4:3rds isn't related to the multi-aspect ratio but there is some of it that is purely just because the lens is smaller than it had to be for that sensor. 5% smaller. Making the lens 5% larger would increase the usable portion of the sensor and not diminish it's multi-aspect ratio.
The diagram in the LX100 preview is to-scale: the outer grey area is based on the pixel dimensions of the GX7, so you can see how much you'd gain by making the lens larger.
The one that puzzles me is 1:1 - why doesn't that use the full height of the sensor?
Richard, I'm with you on the 1:1 thing. Geometry says it should be pretty good up there unless their lens is uniquely oval. Maybe they are using 4/3rds sensor chips that have defects on the top or bottom for this camera to save some money? CPU and GPU manufacturers do this all the time by deactivating cores with some manufacturing error and selling it as a lesser spec'd model.
On the 16:9 thing, I'm saying that the lens chosen doesn't give full use of the sensor at 16:9. The lens is 5% too small to do that. They can say they chose to make a smaller lens because they wanted to support the same field of view in multi-aspect but they didn't size the lens big enough to utilize the entire width of the sensor in ANY aspect ratio. It's about 5% too small a lens for that. At 16:9, it doesn't use the 4592 pixel width of the 4/3rds sensor. If they made it 5% bigger it would. It would still not give 16mp at any crop but it'd match the existing 4/3rds sensors at 16:9 (and 1:1 possibly)
I would add though that they've got more than enough lens to utilize the 8mp crop for 16:9 4K video the sensor wants to do. They quote 26mm at the wide end for that. Doing the math 3840x2160 is only 84% of the width of the 4/3rds 16mp sensor. The LX100 lens is 97% of the width of the 4/3rds sensor in 16:9 aspect ratio. 84% would get us the 26mm they quote from the 10.9mm lens spec.
So it looks like the 4K video area is just a central 16:9 8mp area of the 16mp 4/3rds chip. That actually leads me to think this lens was considered for a 12mp 4/3rds sensor to take 4K video. The dimensions calculate right. It shines on exactly 8mp in 16:9 ratio of a 12mp 4/3rds sensor (doesn't quite need the 12mp's 4000 pixel width, only 3840)!
@gkdiamond - most companies consider UHD to be a '4K' format.
It's not helped by Samsung deciding to call the 17:9 version of 2160p '4K' and the 16:9 version 'UHD,' when almost everyone else considers them to both be '4K'
For now we're going to use the terms DCI (or Cinema) 4K to mean 4096 x 2160 and UHD 4K to mean 3840 x 2160, with both comin under the '4K' umbrella. If more consistency breaks out, we'll follow that.
Right on. I could have clarified by UHD but I thought that was a given in this sector of things. My point is that this lens covers only 97% of the width of a 4/3rds sensor in 16:9 aspect ratio which is pretty much the exact percentage of a 12mp 4:3 ratio sensor (like the A7S or earlier 4/3rds) you'd have to cover to get 3840x2160 16:9 capture.
But does it have manual HDR feature and slow-motion 120fps in 1080p? (LX7 has slow-motion 120fps in 720p so two years of evolution should make it very possible)
Heh. "Unfortunately there's no touchscreen on this camera", now that's something you don't hear from company reps often. You can really tell this guy is realistic about the camera and personally likes it. His posture completely changed when he had to repeat the stupid marketing pitch about how everybody from your grandma can use the LX100.
All the camera companies should have people like this.
Anyway I'd rather like to see them make this lens for the GM5. Well, uncropped of course. Honestly saying the camera is using a 16 MP m43 sensor is a bit of lying on their part since it only uses 12 MP. Isn't the imaging area closer to 1" then?
It's a LITTLE better than that if you could the area you can add with other aspect ratios. For example, I find the 16:9 mode appealing as a wide angle option, adds a bit more on the sides at the cost of the top. The equivalence there is about 22mm which is pretty damn good even if it's only 16:9. Will work extremely well for a bunch of kids on a stage at a school event able to capture them from surprisingly close. If you count the little extra bits you get in 3:2 and 16:9 mode you get a 13.7 MP camera (not in any rectangular aspect ratio remember but instead an oval like overlay of three ratios) which is 195 mm^2. One step further if you ONLY shot in 16:9 from 4/3rds sensors (which are somewhat ironically all 4:3 aspect ratio), say because you're a video nut or something, The LX100's usable area is 95% of 4/3rds sensor in stills and matches it exactly if using an 8mp 4K video 16:9 crop.
So on some level yes it's 4:3 180mm^2 but in some ways it's still 225mm^2 or close to it.
That's true. I prefer the 3:2 ratio so I really hate 4:3 sensors since cropping to 3:2 changes the FOV of wide angle and prime lenses compared to native 3:2. 16:9 while not my first choice is fine for many purposes and a wider horizontal angle could be worth it.
However I'd much rather see selectable aspect ratio in ILCs. Panasonic already does that with the GH series, I wish they'd put the same capability in 'lesser' cameras. I also wish Olympus would stop spoiling the fun with insisting on 4:3.
4:3 is closer to round than 3:2. 1:1 would technically be the biggest area rectangle you could get within the circle but few people want to deal with that aspect ratio. I also prefer working with 3:2 over 4:3 for 4"x6" printing and being a little closer to computer aspect ratios like 16:10 or even 16:9 but it's hard to blame them for wanting to get more sensor area out of their lenses than a 3:2 sensor could get.
I think a lot of people though print 8x10 and 5x7 which are both closer to 4:3 than 3:2. If you were to equally print 4x6", 5x7", and 8x10", you'd be right in the middle with a 4:3 ratio sensor.
If you love 3:2, the LX100 might be a better camera for you than you think. You can set it in 3:2 and forget it and you will actually pick up a little width compared to the people who use a LX100 only in 4:3. Not quite the width of a full 4/3rds 4:3 sensor but closer.
I'm not actually used to printing, but if I print something, it's 20x30 or 40x60 cm (8x12", 16x24") which happen to be 3:2 but it's more a coincidence than anything. When I had my first digital compact I always thought there's something odd about those images.
As for LX100, well, it's fixed lens and quite big so doesn't really interest me. RX100 III seems like a better choice for a compact camera (and also natively 3:2 to boot) even though it's lesser in the lens speed department, then again it's 20 MPx so advantages go both ways.
BTW if I'm not mistaken, the digicam's 4:3 ratio comes from the computer industry where 4:3 displays used to be standard, and that in turns is related to the PAL standard. Which I find a bit odd since most of the initial PC breakthroughs came from NTSC countries (US, JP) with native 5:4 ratio. I gotta look it up someday.
This is the first time I'd seriously start thinking of buying a fix-lens camera, if it had tilting touch screen. The GX7 is definitely a much better option with its tilting touch screen and tilting EVF. If only Panasonic made a GX7m2 with IBIS 5-axis IBIS working in video and touch-magnification during video.
GX7 only appears to be in this thing's price range because of the lens involved. The 12-35 f2.8 panasonic lens alone costs more than the LX100 body AND lens. For those like me that are wide angle focused, it can be argued that the LX100's better anyway (brighter at the wide end than 4/3rds f/2.8 even with the 2.2x total crop).
If you compare the LX100 to any 4/3rds that has a zoom, the LX100 is an unbelievable value in terms of lens speed, physical dimensions, and cost. If you compare body to body, it's not that special. The lens of the LX100 is it's best feature. That said, independent aperture, shutter, exposure, zoom, and yet another dial for ISO/WB/menus/etc is pretty special even compared to a GX7 or a GH4 or an E-M1 or anything else.
I'm having trouble seeing a reason to buy any 4/3rds camera after the LX100 his the market. It's lens, if it is comparably sharp etc, compares to a lot of 4/3rds primes for maximum aperture over a pretty useful range. Certainly plenty of market that wants to go telephoto but why are these people in 4/3rds? The size advantage of the bodies goes out the window when you attach a massive lens to it. Might as well use an APS-C body with a decent grip.
I am thinking about this camera. Seems the only Panasonic cares about potential customer...the is certainly different interview than with "Sony representatives!"
Exactly. And I also appreciate he was honest, not hiding anything ("the LCD is unfortunately not touch sensitive...") and not pretending (explanation of crop from 4/3"), so no usual PR bul...t.
Built in flash doing wireless would be nice! Touch and swivelscreen. Separate EVF, tele macro, some kind of wheatersealing. Room for an OLY XZ 100 then?
Agreed, and let it use the whole 16 MP in 4:3. Make the lens slightly larger.
Seriously, though the LX100 is impressive, I do not get the omission of tilt-screen / VF and a touchscreen (though the latter is less important to me). Weather sealing would be nice, too.
Yes, despite the impressive feature list the lack of a tilt screen puts this camera much lower on my list. Really a surprise as the FZ1000 does have EVF and tilt screen ...
And when comparing to cameras like G7X and RX100-3, that LX100 lens better be VERY high quality to compensate for the increased weight/size/price... will be interesting to see how much better the LX100 is with all those ED/aspheric lenses (I guess RX100-3 and G7X also use special lens technology ...).
A separate EVF would be going backwards. Finally manufacturers are adding that and you want to take it out > Sorry, but I'd keep that and use a more powerful external flash.
Yes, the silver looks pretty ugly. Strange, I love it on Fuji's and Leica's cameras. The black looks so much better with the LX100. Part of it may be how the lens is silver on the outside but when it extends it's black, that just looks horrible.
Bravo Panasonic! I still wish it's had a built in flash and 5 axis stabilization system like FZ1000. Maybe next model? 60P for 4k too?
Question, can you put the viewfinder at the bottom of the camera and a built in flash on the top? Would it be awkward? Does it have space inside the camera for them 2 together?
The RX100m3 does EVF+flash+shoe in a compact but the top plate of the LX100 has two dials on it for exposure compensation and shutter speed where the sony has just a hopefully soon to be old fashioned "mode dial". In effect, you get two control dials instead of a mode dial and a pop-up flash.
It DOES have a hot shoe remember, and even comes for the price with a pretty small flash you can use (that's also a good bit brighter than your typical compact camera built in flash) along with support for much more capable units. Fair trade for the extra dials IMHO.
I mean, there is no mode dial, how awesome is that? You can't do that without aperture, shutter, and exposure dials. Context sensitive dials require a mode to switch the context (duh). There's also a dail on the back for easily changing ISO or white balance. The price you pay for that is no onboard flash, there's no room!
I really like these sorts of videos but let me say something: this wasn't an interview but more like a presentation with a lot of help from Barney. But ok, still imformative. But why on earth didn't you ask "why is there no touchscreen?" when he mentioned the fact himself? THAT would have been an interview. And many people have been asking this question. When an interviewer hears "unfortunately we didn't put a TS on it" wouldn't it be naturally to ask why?
As for Leica branded lenses- I guess and hope that this one will be very good, but I have to disagree that Leica only allows them to put their badge on when it's really very good quality because there have been a number of Leica branded Pana cameras with lousy glass (I am now talking about FX 25 times). At the time Fuji had compact lenses that were so much better, so if the guy says that they only let them use their name on super good lenses than I have to say: no. Still, I'm excited about this camera even if it has no flash.
Panasonic hits a home run this year and last year. The GH4 is a stunning achievement as a Film/Photo hybrid, then Panasonic release a FZ1000 super-zoom fitting a lens that almost seem impossible. Now Panasonic managed to squeeze in a 24-75/1.8 ~ 2.8 lens into a Micro43 sensor camera that is no bigger than a GX-7, what's more its stunningly cheap when compare to buying an M43 camera + Panasonic 12-35/2.8. Good Job Panasonic.
Panasonic is doing great. Olympus has recovered -hopefully- from the executive management scandal and cruising at top speed in the DSLM arena. It will be great if Ricoh enters the mirrorless market but, I'm afraid it would disturb Pentax's course too much to risk the move.
Here is the LX100 compared to GX7 with 12-35/2,8, which is so much bigger. Even the GX7 with collapsible (and slow) zoom is still bigger (and heavier). http://j.mp/1s8g4R6
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