And the winners are: DPReview Awards 2015

I am not a big for of tcstv reviews but in that particular case he explains and shows quite clearly how he tested it. Not to mention they shot the whole review with it.

A lot of reports I have come across don't have the same kind of coverage (not that I am implying they are false).

In any case that thing is out of my price range, I simply posted the test to play devils advocate.

Depends on your use case really. For purely stills i rather own a D7200.

Getting hold of the camera is not too bad in the UK, but getting hold of the lenses outside the standard 16-50mm kit lens can be bit of a problem.

One other thing that bothers me is selling Samsung gear is rather hard. Selling Sony stuff is annoying enough. that's one thing good about canon/Nikon, stuff seeks easily and at the same time easy to pick up on used market.

well if someone is fanboy why would they swap!! I think availability is an issue. I don't just mean in shops but also in used markets. I can just about put up with Sony (and its gotten lot better in last two year for e-mount). But if got any worst I'd probably give up Sony too.

As much as I'd love to buy all the new gear, I generally have a 50-50 split. I buy used when I am not sure about something, so I can re-sell with little or no loss. I personally got into Sony this way. If I can't try out Samsung in the same way, it becomes rather inaccessible for me.

p.s. not saying any of it is Samsung's fault but it is what it is...

Yes it's a problem and I found when i looked at the NX1 the counter guys tried to talk me out of it, with no basis or reason. I knew why I wanted it they did not know how good it is. Many shops won't even take it out as they may only stock one and don't want to turn it into a demo. Samsung should have just put stock into lots of stores as "Demo's" So yes Samsung need to come up with innovative ways of breaking down these barriers. Away from this th NX1 is healthy in it's own community where Video performance is important.

Japan:

Samsung has NOT stopped mirrorless camera sales.

You've confused a rumor for fact, Samsung has hinted at reconsidering P&S cameras.

No rumor, unfortunately: a good friend of mine was working in their camera design team (based in Tokyo) and they have disbanded the whole team. It was announced internally that they are leaving this market but keeping maintenance and other basic things alive.
So don't expect any new ILC or lens in the medium-long term.

By the way, to clarify, their Camera Design team was based in Japan, but they have never distributed their ILCs in Japan, so I am not mistaking with a partial drawback from one market: they actually stop designing any new camera.

Japan,

And Samsung has denied it publicly.

Deal with it.

Your source is not fully informed.

No, the rumor is that Nikon leant some engineers to Samsung to design the NX1, that cooperation may have ended.

It is indeed likely that Samsung would withdraw from P&S cameras.

I told you what I know (and how I know it). Now time will sort things out :-)

JapanAntoine. Can you confirm that this was all of Samsung's whole camera development team? Maybe they have other development in Korea? What camera's was your friend working on? And if this is true, why are these people not talking about it? Have they signed NDA's? . It seems strange to close a whole area and have silence and just friends of friends quoting? I am not saying you are wrong, just would like some more information.

hmm... if they signed a NDA, they have clearly broken it already!

nan:

Samsung has likely dropped the 1" sensored NX mini.

Also again Samsung basically denied the rumor.

And why would they still be marketing the NX1, if it's no longer being made?

I am not suggesting they have dropped NX1, what I am saying is someone signed a NDA, they are definitely breaking it.

I work for a large electronics company myself and we sign all sorts of agreements. I am not even allowed to take a job at a competitor company for 6 months after leaving the company!

So why would someone risk their career! Forget telling a good friend, I wouldn't speak about work related stuff to my own parents or wife!

And if there is no such agreement, this story should have had more leaks than the titanic by now.

nan:

As I said above the rumor, totally unconfirmed, is that Nikon leant out engineers to Samsung to design the NX1.

Perhaps thinking to gain mirrorless design experience, or more radically to launch a Nikon mirrorless APSC body that could take NX lenses--sort of akin to the Panasonic-Olympus lens overlap for the 4/3 and m4/3s mounts.

A poster named Japan spreading bad unfounded rumor about Korean nemesis Samsung... That's classic.

Guys, there's absolutely no way Samsung would have any strategically crucial R&D in Japan. Doesn't matter if they closed this little shop or not.

MikeDPR... you know probably nothing about Korea and Japan, anyway...
Samsung has big teams in Japan for R&D and Design. There was a team specialized in Cameras design (UI, UX, etc) but I am not in the details of their org chart. I just meet a friend a few times a year and he's been working there for years, on many cameras Samsung released (from P&S to ILCs). He just told me the team had been disbanded and the reason given was that the new Samsung chairman is cutting all non-profitable activities, cameras being one of those.
I don't follow Samsung's official communication, but that's what I know. Surely I don't know everything and maybe they have hidden plans to make another team or another brand do the work somewhere else, who knows...

So in reality, they could be just cutting back in an area that worked on UI, UX etc??? Sony closed one of their main lens factories 5 years ago. They still seem to make lenses and camera's?

I walk into camera stores whenever I get the chance, and holding a camera is a big part of my assessment of it. I had muted feelings about the XT1 until I held one, so putting your stuff in stores is important. I've seen a few Samsung stands, but never with a NX1, which is a shame.

I visited Jessops Oxford Street (London) last week, and there was still a Samsung stand, but no Samsung cameras :(

So I think your anger should be at Jessops? Ask them why they don't stock it?

Jessops oxford street only stock things they can sell and have been 'trained' to sell. For example, I have seen Sony reps there few times speaking for Sony cameras trying to sell them with the staff there.
Plus its a small shop with limited space plus space is expensive in London especially so on Oxford street. So a camera on display will need to support itself with sales.
At the same time they don't want to be seen as the shop with lower number of options. So they will have a stand for samsung, but it won't be well supported. Just as test, have a word with one of their employees about samsung gear and then canikon gear, you'll notice a huge difference.

nan:

And if the camera is not on display the store can lose traffic.

Majority of the people who go to store are generally not sure what they want. I don't know which part of the world you are from but in UK it is cheaper to buy online from amazon or during sale seasons than in shops like jessops.
Its a lot easier to sell a canon or nikon DSLR to someone looking for "upgrade" from p&s than it is to sell Samsung.

Like I said that store in oxford street is small, with limited space where space is probably at is highest price in the country. Any camera that's on display has to support its cost. They will still have a Samsung stall to make sure they have covered a wide range of options but it won't nearly as well covered as canon or nikon.

Right or wrong, it is what it is.

@FodgeandDurn: next time try Park cameras which is nearby jessops on oxford street. They have NX1 on their website unlike jessops who don't even sell it on their website. They may have NX1 on display there (they didn't last time I was there but things might have changed now)

nandbytes:

Sure there are people who go into camera stores not knowing what they want.

Then there are people, usually in big cities, who use cameras, who go into camera stores to restock but also to look at what is new. In many ways these repeat customers are the most important ones, because over the course of a year or two they spend much more money in serious stores for gear than someone who simply gets a DSLR upgrade from a P&S.

And in the US, Amazon's prices simply aren't better than those offered by good stores where one can try cameras--this is only true of big cities in the US.

I've never been in Jessups, but they don't sound like a particularly serious camera store. They sound like something akin to a camera boutique--almost all of those went out of business in the USA. Ritz and Wolf would be two examples.

Having managed Camera stores in the past, Salesmen, I have found will tend to be dismissive of products they are not familiar with, even to the point of putting a product down or "Why do you want to see that camera" This translated actually means. Please don't ask me about that camera as I am unsure of demonstrating it.
Brand ambassadors in stores is the only way to break it down, get the guys in the store owning and using the gear. THEN the attitude changes. It a circle, I don't know it, I don't want to demo it, the sales are poor, lets not put it on display, so sales are NON existent. Then the store and sales guys will say, poor camera and poor sales. Samsung need to work to fix this, only they can break this down over time.

kryten, gets my point.

How:
Jessops used to be one the largest chains in UK, and recently had to shutdown few stores due to financial difficulties. At least in central London, we don't have big camera shops like b&h. I wouldn't know about outside London, but I imagine they aren't massively different in size either. Jessops is still one of the more popular, well known camera shops in the UK.

You can comparing US market to UK market. They don't work the same way. I have only ever bought 1 piece of new camera equipment from a camera shop. I can almost always find it cheaper online or on amazon.

Still available online, at a premium price..

nandbytes,

Doesn't work that way in the US, though Amazon can be cheaper than B+H for say a peculiar flash card if you really try.

Home Depot, one large chain of home improvement stores, is great if you just want to run in and buy a power drill or circular saw, or 10 bags of ready mix concrete, but they're neither specialized construction stores, nor specialized wood working tool stores. In the US most of those two latter are still independent--and/or online.

Unfortunately in the UK if you want to try a camera out in person it can be a bit of a hunt.

Nan - I've been on the Park Cameras website quite a few times, didn't actually realise they had a store there. The Curry's on Oxford Street opposite Jessops has a surprisingly good range of cameras - so far the only place I've been able to play with an XT-1. I don't make a point of visiting Jessops but I drag my girlfriend in there to look around when we're nearby. They used to have quite a few Samsung cameras out on display but no more.

I used to like the London Camera Exchange on the Strand but they once offered me such a bad trade-in price I felt insulted and haven't been back.

Regarding brand ambassadors, they're definitely part of it with less informed customers. However I had an argument with a Sony ambassador in a Curry's recently - he was trying to tell me E-mount cameras would take Alpha lenses without an adaptor. Because Sony now call them the Alpha 7, right? *facepalm*.

Depending on where and how you live, same thing can be affordable or expensive, so it's complicated, but here it goes...
Aps-c:

DSLR nikon d3300 (excellent camera) or canon 1200d (repackaged 550d more or less, but cheap lenses)

MILC without evf Samsung nx500 ~600 usd with 28MP and 4k, nx3000 with 20MP for ~300 usd (16/2.4, 20/2.8, 30/2, 45/1.8, 50-200 all around 200-250 usd) and kit lens is great.

MILC with evf Sony a6000 - excellent camera, some affordable lenses, excellent lenses will cost you. Sony a3000 is ~300 usd and it has (low quality) evf.

M43 or smaller - ask someone with better knowledge.
Full frame - kidding, right?

Compact non super zoom - buy a cellphone.
Superzoom - panasonic tz70, Fz200, FZ1000 - pick your poison.

The Panasonic G7 certainly fits in the lower price range.

If strapped for cash, one can always buy used equipment.

If 2014 launches qualify, the LX100/DLux109 should be at least a candidate somewhere. A great advanced compact.

Sony's E-mount selection (or lack thereof) is what reluctantly made me move back to Nikon. Using an A-mount AF adapter on an A6000 to get the lenses you want completely defeats the purpose of the camera.

And i am asking you what is innovative about the camera's you have suggested? I own one of them and i don't see it? Is it innovative to have a screen you can't see in daylight to shoot video? or a one hour battery? I could go on.. What has sales got to do with it? Sales success was not a criteria? I assume they judged it on the merits of the camera? I reckon more people have bought their NX1's and kept them than A7RII people who have bought and sold as a percentage?

My Alpha 900 had FF sensor stabilising back in 2006 thanks to Minolta/Sony, So is this innovative nearly 10 years latter?

As I said, I have both camera's and the only thing 4K about the A7RII in FF is the number on the Dial. The output is much lower than 4K, It really is only 4K at super 35 and can you explain how this is better than the NX1? Even then the NX1 way out resolves it.

Largest EVF...Innovative? The viewfinder is good but it needs to be because the back screen is crap. You cannot shoot video in daylight on the back screen. It's broken!

Sounds more like a p*ssing competition, I keep hearing the word "Largest" :-)

Anyway, don't suppose it matters, the sony did not win the samsung did and the advantage that I have and that the guys at DPR have is they have extensively used both.

@kryten61
Now I am starting to doubt your knowledge completely. You say
"the only thing 4K about the A7RII in FF is the number on the Dial. The output is much lower than 4K"

If you had at least some understanding of the subject, you would have known that what's important in Full Frame videography is the full frame aesthetic, using a large sensor that allows for shallower DoF and specific look. The camera is doing line skipping, but does read the entire FF sensor which provides the FF aesthetic. Even if 1 in 4 pixels are read you still have enough resolution for 4K (about 8Mp) and actually will get very close to not needing interpolation which is always a good thing to avoid.

While shooting in Super35 allows the sensor 1:1 readout to 4K and no skipping which is the ideal case.

I actually doubt you have the A7RII at all (not in your profile as well), rather a Samsung fanboy defending his favourite company. It just doesn't make sense at all to throw $3k at camera you don't like at all.

Good one, so if I add it into my profile that will validate my statement? Thanks for doubting my knowledge. Go and see the camera store review. He estimates the 4K FF output at about a real 2.5 K and I agree with him, Its soft and mushy. And I have verified it with my own A7RII. Thanks for the photography lesson although its not needed I can assure you. Lets be accurate, I wanted FF asthetics in 4K, That is not what is achieved. In Super 35 it res is closer to 4k. Having an output res that is 4K doesn't mean it is achieving this in actual resolution. The 5D was alway rated way below its quotes 1080P in actual resolving output. I am a fan of the Samsung, no doubt, I wanted to be fan of the Sony...But maybe not! One thing is being a fan of something cause it does what it promises, it another thing being a Fan because you invested in a "Team" and you start barracking.

When the LX100 came out it trumped the RX100m3 on many fronts like 4K video and the quality of the viewfinder. Now the RX100m4 is a better comparison and you're mostly deciding between size and manual controls. Each still has advantages over the other but the RX is smaller and probably a better "amateur" camera where the LX100 is not going to fit in your pocket and wasted on somebody who has to be told how to put it into auto.

Yes! Size matters!

Very weak, poorly thought out and poorly written review you have referred to @entoman. Strictly for the insecure who need their prejudices reinforced.

Sub par they may be, but it's very very marginal, and I'd bet that no one could tell the difference between images from A7iiR, D810 and 5DsR at ISO speeds of 3200 or lower that most of us shoot at (assuming same settings, subject, lighting, exposure and print size).

The EISA stand point are from the Pros. Not sure the other judge.

no they are not, they are an European association of around 50 specialty magazines.

People like stating the obvious as comments for replying this thread.

I disagree, It's extremely expensive but an exceedingly "desirable" camera, and I think Leica will have problems meeting the demand, despite the high price.

I seriously doubt there are too many people who see value in a $4k fixed prime lens camera. The only such camera I would consider desirable would be the Ricoh GR II as these cameras are purely for fun as they are severely limiting what you can shoot.

Well I can tell you that Leica can't keep up with the demand for this camera. You might think it is expensive and it is but it is cheaper than the RX1R and add on viewfinder where when originally released. The IQ from the leica sensor and lens just wow me everytime. One of the best £2900 I have ever spent on a camera

^^ Fair enough. It suits your needs and thats good.

However the A7rII is #1 in amazon.com mirrorless best seller, while the Leica Q is nowhere in the top 100 and I doubt it will be anywhere in the top 1000 also.

So the fact that Leica can't keep up with demand is hardly telling since its obvious they will be having a very small production run.

I also have the A7rII and along with the FE55 it complements the Q with it's 28mm very well. Of course the A7rII will be a bigger seller but that doesn't take anything away from the Q's strong points

I am aware. Had a look at your portfolio and Flickr link which had EXIF info. Have you by any chance tried the Sony 28mm f2 to compare with the Leica Q ? Or an actual Leica lens like the 28mm f2 Leica to use on the A7rII ?

ChrisH37 - The NX-1 is not going to be as well stocked as established camera brands like Nikon, Canon and Sony.

There are several dealers advertising the NX-1, but most have it listed as "awaiting stock".

That signifies that either Samsung's import and distribution service is failing, or (more likely) that demand is currently so low that dealers will only order them when customers ask them to.

It's a great camera, and has a good system of lenses, so the real problem I think is that Samsung are not promoting the camera heavily enough. I also agree that it's hugely overpriced when compared with it's direct competitors Canon 7DMkii and Nikon D7200.

Pentax, Olympus, Fujifilm and Samsung all make excellent cameras, but they are not as popular with reviewers or buyers, when compared to Sony, Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. Someone has to win, someone has to lose. It doesn't mean that the losers are bad cameras, it just means they are not as popular!

Yes, those who jump ship are likely to drown. Those who stay on board continue to have great cameras and take great pictures. People should stick with what they've got and learn how to use it properly, instead of making silly "threats" to switch brands.