Nikon D4 and Canon EOS 6D added to test scene comparison tool: Digital Photography Review

Nikon D4 and Canon EOS 6D added to test scene comparison tool

Published Dec 17, 2013 | dpreview staff

Comments

All (50)

Most popular (3)

Editors' picks (0)

DPR staff (1)

Oldest first

Eleson

When I click on:
"Compare the Df to the D4 and EOS 6D in our new test scene"
I end up in the Df review. Is that as it should?

Dec 27, 2013permalink

Sad Joe

This is most interesting - the cheaper 6D seems to more than hold its own against even the mighty D4 and most tellingly the sensor in the DF is clearly NOT the same as the D4….

Dec 19, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

Sad Joe:

It’s not news that the Canon D6 is a good high ISO lowlight camera, but it aint the D4. The Canon has cyan and magenta blotching in deep shadows starting around ISO 16,000.

As for the D4 and the Df not using the same sensor, you can’t be sure unless you have access to the sensors and a scanning electron microscope. Then more importantly: The Df has a new processor and the lens matters.

The Canon body that may (that’s “may”) challenge the Df/D4 for high ISO lowlight shooting is the 1D X–nearly eight grand for that Canon body.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

yabokkie

D4 is definitely not mighty in image quality.
though it's not weak either.

Dec 20, 2013permalink

Shiranai

Thats great! I personally tought of writing you a mail if you could add the 6D. And now it pops up all by itsself :)
Cheers.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

thx1138

Well well, DxO mark claims Df has best low light IQ of any camera ever, yet the dpreview test scene shows that at high ISO (RAW) the Df and D4 are not even better at the pixel level than 6D, which can further be resampled to 16MP for even better results.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

Get a hold of a lot more raws, with all sorts of lighting conditions before jumping to your conclusion.

Though safe to ignore DXO sensor scoring, in this case DXO is correct and I base my conclusion on raws I’ve shot with both the Df and the D4 and also the D3s. And yep the Canon 6D too. That Canon is excellent at high ISO lowlight, but not up to the Df, the Canon has magenta and cyan blotching problems in deep shadows starting at about ISO 16,000.

And no resampling does NOT reduce noise. It's myth, try it with a tiff from a noisy raw of your own.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

Ayoh

That's because the DPreview test are not controlled and the camera sensors are exposed to different amount of incident light. The test are supposed to be set to compare JPEG output for constant JPEG brightness, however even that is inconstant as similar camera are shot at different apertures which would affect sharpness - for instance in some full frame Nikon and Canon images one camera is shot at f5.6, the other at f11. There is also no disclaimer presented on the test page either which informs readers that these test are not controlled and should not be used to gauge characteristics such as noise in Raw images. In all, the Dpreview images seem pointless, DXO and Imaging resource are a much more useful for making fair comparison.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

Revenant

I'm sure DxOMark is very trustworthy; they are very rigorous in their testing. However, you have to understand what exactly they are measuring.

Many people don't seem to realize this, but DxO's image quality analysis is based on the unconverted (and hence undemosaiced) raw file, i.e. it's based on numbers, not actual, viewable RGB images. I'm sure their results are accurate with respect to sensor performance (including any noise reduction that might be applied to the raw file by the manufacturer), but they can't be compared to converted images. The specific demosaicing and NR algorithms used by the conversion software can have a huge influence on the quality of the final images. So basically, here at DPR you are comparing [raw sensor data+ACR at default settings], not sensor performance itself.
There isn't necessarily a conflict between DxO's results and what you see with your own eyes in your images, because you never look at undemosaiced images, do you?

Dec 19, 2013permalink

thx1138

HowabaoutRAW, you still pushing your own myth about resampling I see. Not sure what universe you live in.

Dec 20, 2013permalink

David Myers

Shame this new test scene is so poor! The lighting is uneven: The lights should have been much further away and strip lights used to avoid the semi circular bright spots on the left and right sides of the set. Because of this the centre is correctly exposed but the image gets progressively overexposed to towards the left and right sides.

Also light scatter in the entire room is causing reflections of the room contents in the reflective surfaces of the prints and glossy items destroying the black densities and subject contrast with room reflections.

If I was building and lighting a 'reference' set like this I would do it in a black room with well distanced and shielded strip lights and shoot through a black velvet 'wall' with a hole for the lens. Even lighting and reflection control is needed to maximise contrast and resolve the highest detail.

Sorry DP Review but this a 'fail' as a test setting!

Dec 19, 2013permalink

RedFox88

I knew there was no way the same quality image sensor was going into the df for half the price of the d4. d4 is a good stop better at high ISO than the df. The df is good but of course the d4 is better just like d700 vs. d3s.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

Red:

The D3s used a different sensor than the D700. However the D3 used the same sensor.

Look at raws shot with more lenses on both the D4 and Df, before drawing any conclusion.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Bjrn SWE

People say that Canon sensors are lagging behind the Nikon (Sony) counterparts and that Canons are no good. Strange thing, I just can't see that in this "Studio Comparison Tool" - the EOS 6D looks just as fine as any of the Nikons, at any ISO. Did I forget to bring my glasses?

Dec 18, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

Sony doesn't make the sensor in the Df/D4; Renesas does the making and likely Nikon does the design.

Nor, of course, does Sony make the sensor in the 1 series; Aptina does.

And Toshiba makes the sensor in the D7100 and likely the D5300.

Sony makes the sensors for the D800 and D610 and probably Nikon's P&Ses.

So stop claiming that Sony is the sensor maker for Nikon.

You'll need to look at more raws than just this test scene to draw conclusions about Canon sensors, don't forget the lens and raw extraction software are both really important. Then you'll have to print out the results with at least 6 inks and good paper unless you have a 96bit monitor.

Dec 18, 2013*permalink

marike6

First of all, ignore the JPEGs and look at the RAWs. The Df/D4 has considerably less chroma noise than both the D610 and 6D.
At pixel level the D610 and 6D are close but the extra resolution of the D610 gives it an advantage for printing.

But noise at pixel level is only one aspect of sensor quality and the D610 has high DR at lower ISO values and apparently the D4/Df sensor has high DR above ISO 800 (higher than the D800/D610).

Color depth (accuracy) is another thing to look at. The D610 is really strong in this area.

Dec 18, 2013*permalink

Bjrn SWE

"Sony doesn't make the sensor in the Df/D4…"
Now I learned something!

Dec 18, 2013permalink

new boyz

""Sony doesn't make the sensor in the Df/D4…""

Maybe a relief for Sony fans as D4 sensor is not particularly great while D800 sensor has set a new height for the IQ bar.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

naththo

Sony sensor delivers better shadow noise than any other sensor manufacturer. So having shadow recovery is very important. You don't want end up with banding/blotchy and noisy after you attempt to do shadow recovery.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

naththo:

At which ISOs are you making those shadow noise control claims for Sony full framed sensors?

The point isn’t that Sony sensors are bad, but that the D4/Df’s sensor is better at lowlight high ISO shooting. And in fact in those conditions the Df sensor shows less shadow noise, while in deep shadows even the 24MP sensor from the D610 has cyan and magenta blotching at the relatively low ISO of 10,000.

Right at ISO 100,000 the Df has banding problems, big ones in shadows. I imagine there are similar weaker banding problems at ISO 50,000 too. But the amazing thing is the ISO 100,000 image remains somewhat useable, though I’d not make it into an art print.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

HowaboutRAW

new boyz:

The sensor in the D800 has no where near the high ISO capacity of the sensor in the D4, you have no idea of what you're writing. For lowlight high ISO shooting, the D610's sensor is better than the sensor in the D800.

The D800 has serious problems above about ISO 8,000.

And no "resampling" does NOT remove noise. Go right ahead and test that process out yourself, start with a noisy raw, process to tiff and resample to your heart's delight.

Looks to me like the D800 also has DR problems that the D600/D610 and Df don't have. Yes I've shot raws with all of those bodies. And yes the Df is better than the D610 for lowlight high ISO shooting.

Of course the Canon 1D X and 6D also both surpass the D800 for high ISO work too.

Even the Leica M240 is better than the D800.

It's not like the D800 is a bad camera; it's just not a good high ISO body.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

JKP

Canon 6D looks pretty good, better than I though. It's almost on the level of Sony's FF sensors found in Sony and Nikon cameras. Maybe my good old 20D has time to go.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Mazhe

Are you also racing a K-3 review?

Dec 18, 2013permalink

KonstantinosK

I bet it's coming after the shopping holidays end!

Dec 18, 2013permalink

peevee1

Racing to the ground.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

RedFox88

Dude, the d4 and 6D came out long before the k3. Chill out.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

KonstantinosK

How about the Df?

Dec 20, 2013permalink

vFunct

How come there was no D4 review?

Dec 18, 2013permalink

clicstudio

No review, but plenty of ways to buy a D4 from DPR's own GEARSHOP...
DPR: We won't tell you how good a camera is, just trust us and buy one from our own store...
Pfffffff

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Jogger

prob. because the user base of DPR is basically smartphone users and mirrorless

Dec 18, 2013permalink

vFunct

That's probably true.

If they did reviews targeted for pros they'd have to do things like measure focus accuracy, focus speed, battery life tests, card speeds, and other things that matter to pros but smartphone/mirrorless users wouldn't care about.

Anyone know a good site that reviews pro cameras?

Dec 18, 2013permalink

RedFox88

Because it's a top of the line dSLR if you want or need the best buy it. That's what professionals do. It's the gadget junkies/uber-enthusiasts that want to see numbers and graphs before buying something!

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Ayoh

Cool, now why don't you now also add some scientific rigour to your test scene and ensure all camera sensors are exposed to the same amount of incident light, as currently they are not. Otherwise you should clearly state that your current test shots cannot be used to compare noise performance, as, by looking at the comments, that is what most readers are doing and making incorrect conclusions.

Dec 18, 2013*permalink

naththo

Ayoh because every brand has different process of JPEG. All raw looks identical to me anyway. They have done right thing with studio comparison. Canon JPEG engine tends to be contrasty and deeper black shadow. While Nikon JPEG engine is mute, pale, soft to preserve it for further editing. D4/Df is better than horrible D610 with moire/aliasing.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

peevee1

naththo, it has nothing to do with the proper comparison - exposure does not depend on JPEG engine.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Richard Butler

These aren't meant to be scientific sensor tests, they're representative of the results you get if you shoot to get a consistent JPEG brightness under consistent test conditions.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

AbrasiveReducer

Exactly. Each camera has strengths and weaknesses, they are all more than adequate and who actually makes the sensor is less important than how the sensor performs.

As always, with a little effort, its possible to see the one you are rooting for is clearly the best.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

RedFox88

Agree with Richard. when I take photos I'm not out there to put an image sensor through a rigorous test I'm out there to capture the light I want to, how I want to. Measurebators!

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Ayoh

Your test conditions are not consistent though, even for jpeg. You use different apertures for similar cameras - in the full frame Nikon and Canon images one camera is shot at f5.6, the other at f11. Would this not affect sharpness?
Regardless your page should clearly state that your test shots are not for comparing sensor noise performance, as currently it doesn't which is misleading. Look at the comments here, a lot of people are making conclusions based on noise performance in raw for these cameras, assuming equal conditions, which are not present. If you are not going to be consistent then state it clearly as there is an underlying assumption by readers that the cameras are shot in equivalent settings.

Dec 19, 2013*permalink

Pati Feroolz

You could make this test for the Pentax 645D :)

Dec 18, 2013permalink

The Davinator

No doubt that Nikon is superior at high iso for noise. Differences are small enough to matter little though

Dec 17, 2013permalink

SushiEater

I compared D610, 6D and 5DIII at 3200 RAW (not JPGs) and they look exactly the same to me.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

Pati Feroolz

don't see any difference between 6D and D610. but D4 is superior.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

yabokkie

haven't checked D610 but D600 looked the best of them to me. 6D and D4 are near within error but D4 is not designed for best image quality anyway (but for best response, best AF and frame rate).

Dec 18, 2013*permalink

new boyz

Agree with you yabokkie. People perceiving 16mp as a necessity for low light(larger pixel) when the actual reason is to keep the file small for a long uninterrupted burst.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

yabokkie

thus D4 sensor is really a bad choice for Df,
which inherites all the bads with no advantage.

Dec 19, 2013permalink

Anfy

Yes, it is better than the D610 at ISO 3200 and especially 6400, but not so much to justify the difference in price and lack of video and dual SD slot.

Dec 17, 2013permalink

marike6

The Df and D4 RAW files look fantastic at those ISO settings, whether or not it's needed is going to depend on what you shoot. Concert photography, events, really any available light work the extra expense for the Df is going to be well worth it. But of course the D610 is an extremely capable all-around shooter, no doubt.

Dual SDs, especially since the Df is not a video camera, are not such a big deal as fast cards have never been cheaper. I have yet to fill the 32 GB primary card in my D800 shooting RAW stills with some video.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

esco

Dual card slots aren't really about memory capacity as memory cards have gotten to the capacity of not needing to switch out for most scenarios, they are for backup and or writing images raw in one card and jpeg or of lower quality in another etc. . .

Dec 18, 2013permalink

marike6

> Dual card slots aren't really about memory capacity

They are if you are shooting video. But for still shooting in 2013 there are tons of ways to make redundant backups without dual card slots, the most common being via a portable drive, digital wallet or sending images via WiFi to a tablet in the field. Since the Canon 6D has WiFi built-in and the Nikon Df is WiFi capable, I don't see the single SD card slot as a deal breaker on either camera. And with Eye-Fi cards pretty much all cameras have this capability out of the box.

But honestly can't think of a reason to write RAW to one card and JPEG to another but everybody has different requirements. But it is nice to have dual card slots for sure, just not an absolute must as there are a variety of ways to make backups in the field.

Dec 18, 2013permalink

iZugar launches 220-degree super fisheye lens for Micro Four Thirds

The new iZugar 3.25mm F2.5 super fisheye lens offers an insane 220-degree angle of view. That means it can basically see behind itself... good luck keeping your feet out of the shot.

Sep 23, 201754 lens news

Apple's auto-generated Memories videos are still kind of weird in iOS 11

You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll remember that time you took a picture of the frozen pizza baking directions.

Sep 23, 201712 mobile

Craigslist poster raises the bar on terrible car photography

A Craigslist poster has discovered the worst possible way to photograph a car: taking pictures of pictures displayed on a cracked and scratched up smartphone screen.

Sep 22, 2017156

The iPhone 8 Plus is the best smartphone camera DxOMark has ever tested

With the iPhone X coming out soon, the title probably won't last, but the iPhone 8 Plus is officially the best smartphone camera DxOMark has ever tested, and the iPhone 8 is second.

Sep 22, 2017312 mobile

This Kodak Moments chatbot digs through your old photos and tries to sell you prints

Kodak's new Facebook Messenger chatbot is trying to bring back the 'Kodak Moment' by digging up your old social media photos and trying to sell you prints and custom coffee mugs.

Sep 22, 201733

Affinity Photo for iPad adds extremely useful drag-and-drop feature with iOS 11 update

Affinity Photo for iPad was touted as "the first full blown, truly professional photo editing tool to make its way onto the Apple tablet." This update makes it that much more convenient.

Sep 22, 201733

Yashica teases 'Unprecedented Camera': Coming to Kickstarter in October

Yashica has released a new teaser video, and this one claims they'll be releasing an "unprecedented camera" in October on Kickstarter. Ready... set... speculate!

Sep 22, 2017128 camera news

Synology launches its first 6-bay NAS tower, updates more affordable options

Storage solutions company Synology has just released its very first 6-bay NAS tower. Combined with the DX1215 expansion units, it can hold and control up to thirty drives.

Sep 22, 201716

New product overview videos: Canon EOS 6D II and more

We're always expanding our collection of product overview content, and we've just added videos for the Canon EOS 6D Mark II, the EOS Rebel SL2 and EOS M6.

Sep 22, 201796 video

Throwback Thursday: the Canon PowerShot G1

The venerable Canon PowerShot G1 was announced seventeen years ago this week, marking the start of a line of enthusiast-focused compacts that's still alive and kicking.

Sep 21, 2017140

Incredible microscopic close-ups of a peacock feather

Super macro photographer Can Tuncer captured these incredible close-ups of a single peacock feather using a special setup and three different microscope lenses.

Sep 20, 201799

Oprema Jena revives Biotar 58mm F2 lens with record-setting 17 aperture blades

After successfully crowdfunding the Biotar 75mm F1.5, Oprema Jena is at it again. This time they're bringing back the Biotar 58mm F2: the world's only lens with a 17-blade aperture.

Sep 20, 2017132 lens news

Adobe announces record-breaking $1.84 billion in revenue for Q3

Adobe's move to a subscription model is treating it very well indeed. The company has posted record revenue for the second quarter in a row, hauling in a mind-boggling $1.84 billion.

Sep 20, 2017455

Report: Blackstone working with Morgan Stanley to sell 45% Leica stake

More details have emerged about the potential sale of Blackstone's 45% stake in iconic camera brand Leica.

Sep 20, 2017108

Snapseed app updated with new interface and presets, adds perspective tool to iOS

Popular mobile editing app Snapseed just got a major update that includes a new interface and 11 new presets for both Android and iOS, as well as adding the Perspective tool to the iOS version.

Sep 20, 201752 mobile

Photo Experiment: Shooting macro photos of boiling water

It might sound like a strange idea, but taking macro photos of boiling water can actually result in some really cool photographs. A good photo experiment for a rainy day.

Sep 20, 201737

Diversify Photo launches database of photographers of color to promote diversity

The database was created to "break with the narrow lens through which history… has been recorded" by equipping those who commission photography with "the resources to discover photographers of color available for assignments.

Sep 20, 2017175

Lensbaby unveils Creative Bokeh and Sweet 80 optics

Lensbaby has released two new optics for their special "optic swap system." The Lensbaby Sweet 80 Optic gives you that trademark sweet spot of focus, while the Creative Bokeh optic gives you 9 different drop in aperture plate options to play with.

Sep 20, 201728

iPhone 8 Review: Pushing the limits of photography

TechCrunch has already posted their review of the upcoming iPhone 8 (not yet the iPhone X), and they're calling it "a look into the augmented future of photography."

Sep 20, 2017techcrunch.com 35

Review: Affinity Photo 1.5.2 for desktop

Affinity Photo is a $50 photo editing software with no subscriptions. That's it – pay for it once and you're done. And we think it's actually pretty darn good.

Sep 20, 2017263 review

Instagram is testing a four-photo grid, and some users are freaking out

Instagram is currently testing a major change to the app's profile layout: replacing the 3-photo across grid with a 4-photo grid... and some users are NOT taking the news well.

Sep 19, 2017109

Zenit's full-frame mirrorless camera will use components made by Leica

A report by USSRPhoto is shedding some light on the return of the famed Zenit camera brand. It seems the full-frame mirrorless camera they're working on will be made in part by Leica using components from the Leica SL.

Sep 19, 2017230

Report: Samsung is developing a 1,000fps mobile image sensor

According to a reliable Korean report, Samsung is developing a smartphone sensor that's capable of super slow motion. Translation: Samsung's next batch of Galaxy smartphones may be able to shoot 1,000fps.

Sep 19, 201772 mobile

This is the story behind that tragic, viral photo of a seahorse holding a Q-tip

This simple photograph of a seahorse and Q-tip has taken the internet by storm. We spoke to photographer Justin Hofman about how it was captured, and what it means to him.

Sep 19, 2017202

The Profoto A1 is the 'world’s smallest studio flash' and Profoto's first on-camera flash

After a massive leak last week, Profoto has officially debuted the Profoto A1: the company's first on-camera flash system that they're calling "the world's smallest studio flash."

Sep 19, 201798

Why hyperfocal distance charts are inaccurate

"When the first hyperfocal distance charts were designed, someone decided that an acceptably sharp background contained some blur — enough to notice in a medium-sized print [...] After that point, nearly every other hyperfocal chart followed suit."

Sep 19, 2017Photography Life 40

Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / EOS 200D Review

The Canon EOS Rebel SL2 (also known as the EOS 200D) is the company's impressively compact entry-level DSLR. Packing a 24MP APS-C sensor, DIGIC 7 processor and Dual Pixel AF, it promises a lot of bang for the buck. And while not mind-blowing, it handles most tasks very well.

Sep 19, 2017472 review

Video: Four common composition mistakes and what to do instead

Correct these four common composition mistakes and your photos will be more balanced, tell a better story, and lead your viewer's eye where you want it to go.

Sep 18, 2017142

Kodak PixPro Orbit360 4K VR camera now on sale in the US

The rugged, compact 360° action camera Kodak unveiled at Photokina in 2016, the Kodak PixPro Orbit 360, is finally available in the United States.

Sep 18, 20177 camera news

Bookmark this HEIC to JPEG converter if you're upgrading to iOS 11 tomorrow

iOS 11 launches tomorrow, and it'll save all of your pictures in a new high efficiency image format called HEIC. Fortunately, there's now a converter that will let you turn those photos back into JPEGs.

Sep 18, 2017161

Tips or suggestions? Contact us!


Got Bokeh? DxO reviews the Nikkor AF-S 105mm F1.4E ED Dec 14, 2016	Readers' Showcase: Sarnim Dean Aug 1, 2015	Canon releases its TS compact and faster Pixma printers to US market Dec 16, 2016	Canon advisory warns of counterfeit EF 50mm F1.8 II lenses Dec 16, 2016

Body Only, Base	In stock	From $1,499.00	Shop now
w/ 24-105mm STM, Base	In stock	From $1,899.00	Shop now
w/ 24-105mm USM, Base	In stock	From $2,099.00	Shop now


Nikon Df	Canon EOS 6D
356 I own it 407 I want it 126 I had it Discuss in the forums	2294 I own it 351 I want it 326 I had it Discuss in the forums

Nikon D4
392 I own it 229 I want it 80 I had it Discuss in the forums


Bald Eagle by anisah from Features - lips/mouth	heron and fish by APenza from A Big Year - birds	Cows Cowering Under Rare California Super Cell by RBFresno from -The Old Cows-