Just Posted: Canon EOS 650D / EOS Rebel T4i review

In the conclusion: "The EOD 650D carries on the tradition of high image quality from previous Rebel series cameras."

But isn't it in fact the lowest image quality of all modern (2012) DSLRs? And even modern mirrorless, like Fuji X-Pro1, Pentax k-01, Sony NEX C3/F3/5N/7 and Olympus E-M5 are better?

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

@ Henry M. Hertz I think you could win any competition with any of those cameras if your a good photographer; and if your a bad photographer, not even the Phase One IQ180 would guarantee a win.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

brendon1000

All the dynamic range charts and even noise charts say different. What proof are you offering to back your statement ?

Aug 21, 2012permalink

ageha

Nothing as usual. sdyue still hasn't seen the doctor.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

sdyue, do you even read to the IQ comparison pages (including DR, high ISO etc)? The 18Mpix Canons with their 3 y/o sensors and slow DIGIC 5s are absolutely the worst cameras of 2012, to get anything worse you need to dig all the way down to Pana GF5 with it's 4 y/o 12mpix sensor.

Aug 21, 2012*permalink

IcyVeins

DPR Why did you fast track this camera over ones that have been available longer and are probably better, like the A57 and K-30 and GF5 and RX100?

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

ET2

A couple of authors wrote two 400 page books on A57 and got it published. Apparently it takes DPR much longer than that to write 15 page review.

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

Barney Britton

You want the A57 reviewed. I know. I get it.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Icy--

Seems to me that IR posted something about the RX100, and DPRev posted some general comments about the K-30.

You can always read what buyers of the Sony A57 say at B&H. (bhphotovideo.com)

I'd be the A57 is better at low light than the A77.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

cgarrard

Sony is so unfairly treated here on DPR, they know, they get it.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Barney Britton

Oh yeah, we hate Sony... or is it Nikon we hate this week? Depends on who's paying us for favorable reviews this week, I suppose, or how much inventory of whatever camera that Amazon needs to shift... I lose track.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

raimaster

the question from IcyVeins is very clear but still no answer from dpr team: this camera (650D) arrived later than sony 57 or pentax k30, but why get the review first???

Aug 21, 2012permalink

brendon1000

Guys I am a Sony shooter but lets face it Sony has launched too many similar models - The A37,A35,A55,A57 that all share the same sensor and have merely few small differences between them.

The D3200 had a new sensor so many were curious as to how it would perform. Similarly the Canon has a new hybrid AF system which many would also wish to know how it would perform.

The A57 shares so many features with the old A55 (same sensor, same AF system, same LCD etc) that there is nothing new or exciting that would leave a big question mark.

There is a new NEX rumour which says that the latest NEX will also have a phase/contrast AF system not very different from the Canon mirrorless camera but many would be dying to know how it would stack up with the competition. Now I am willing to bet that DPreview would definitely fast track that review. :)

Aug 21, 2012permalink

Scott Nicol

Another Sony shooter here - as much as I'm interested in seeing an a57 review, its strange to say DPR hate Sony - look at the list of golds awarded to interchangeable lens cameras since they updated their review format a few years back - 12 cameras got the gold and 4 of them were Sony (c.f. 3 canon, 3 nikon and 1 for Pentax and Olympus) - they may take their time reviewing all the different Sony models that flood in but they do seem to like them... they like them quite a bit in fact.

Aug 21, 2012*permalink

sandy b

IMO, the Canon got reviewed first because it will out sell the Sony maybe what, 5-1, more? Interest drives hits, and lets face it, more people want to see the Canon review than the Sony. This is just my opinion, but if i ran a website, thats how I would do it.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

cgarrard

Hope you know I was kidding Barney ;)

Aug 21, 2012permalink

ageha

Still don't think Barney gets it.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

Cameras like the G5 keep looking better and better. Soon DSLRs will be for semi and PRO only.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

techmine

I totally agree. The mirrorless and enthusiast p&s cameras are getting better and better. They are overcoming their shortcomings very fast. On the other hand DSLRs are struggling to up the ante. Right now, bigger sensor is the only thing abuzz.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

techmine--

Try matching the buffer or the lowlight performance of the Nikon D4 with a mirrorless system.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

FTW

Compare what is comparable. 650$ against 5000$. Somewhere you can expect to get something more for that price, don't ya think so?

But, I am willed to compare any D800 against a NEX-7 and I bet all you want that, resized to same size, you can't find out what camera shot what picture, and here we are again comparing 5000$ including glass to some 1800$. So, is price and pixel count a bargain. I don't think so. I hardly touch any of my dslr's since I use the NEX-7 and I think to sell all the Nikon stuff soon. Sony is progressing in a way that Nikon will soon hardly follow the evolution. Anyway, Nikon's success is Sony's work too. And, with the NEX-7, Sony has what Nikon users are awaiting since a long time, not the silly N1 system. I used Nikon since 1967, so can't say I am a newbie. Low light is Nikon's strength, but ay what price? If coming D600 will have correct pricing, I will think about it, if not, I await Sony A88 and 99.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

FTW:

Neither the D800 nor the Nex 7 are particularly useable over ISO 3200, however the Nikon has a few more high quality native lenses than the Sony.

You can still buy a D700 which is good in lowlight, what would be nice would be a D700s with the D3s' sensor.

The D3 (D700), D3s, and D4 don't use Sony sensors. But sure Sony did some nice sensors for the D3x, D300s, and the D7000, none of which interest me.

NB: In '67 Nikon was making film cameras, so there's no point in bringing up how long you've used Nikon cameras, now if you want to a talk about some great Nikon lens from say 1970 that you still use, go ahead.

The Nikon 1 system isn't silly, it just needs a couple of fast lenses.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

Francis Carver

AF speed is sad to be painfully slow in the DP Review article. The video clips illustrate this point quite well. Whereas the T4i is good for taking still photos, for video use there is no reason at all to use a traditional flip-mirror DSLR, and all the reasons to use a mirrorles digital camera, or else the Sony Single Lens Translucent camera.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Francis Carver

I have a 4-years old, $120 Nikon pocket-cam that has a wonderful AF illuminator light that comes on and works in both still picture and video modes.
Flash forward to the year 2012 and to the Canon Rebel T4i that costs about 5x as much as the little Nikon referred to above. Guess what? Canon had conveniently "forgot" to put in a AF illuminator into their latest prosumer DSLR camera. I guess if you have a strong flashlight/torchlight with you at all times, you would not need on in the camera -- or so the thinking must have gone with the Canon corporate bean counters.

Regarding hybrid AF (phase + contrast detection) -- well, mirrorless cameras have had that feature for years. Just ask Panasonic, Sony, and so forth. Can Canon ever come up with something that others have not already come up with before? We begin to wonder.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Esa Tuunanen

650D is entry level consumer DSLR, not enthusiast/prosumer DSLR. (which position is now shared by 60D/7D)

And Nikon 1 is only mirrorless with phase detection.
But what Chipworks gives available for free from 650D's teardown shows Canon sensor's phase detection definitely isn't up to level in Nikon 1.

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

Richard Butler

Francis - this is the second time you've claimed that Sony and Panasonic offer hybrid systems. That is not the case.

So far we have seen on-sensor phase detection from: Fujifilm, Nikon and now Canon (Ricoh had a two-sensor hybrid system, but that's different)

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Amadou Diallo

As noted in the review, the 650D uses the pop-up flash for AF illumination. Not ideal, but that's not the same as claiming they don't offer it at all.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Francis--

Does that $120 Nikon shoot raw and take interchangeable lenses?

How's it shoot at ISO 1600? Now about the buffer...

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Francis Carver

Sony SLT's "hybrid system" nomenclature is based on their own publicity material. It has got something to do with the camera being able to do continuous autofocus, and show what it records (in video mode) either through its viewfinder or via its built-in LCD screen. If the Caninkon DSLRs can also do this with similar ease, then I stand corrected. Otherwise, not.

RAWman, the $120 Nikon L120 does not shoot "RAW." Fortunately. Nor do you have to buy dubious value-for-$ extra-cost lenses for it, also fortunately. Heck, it only costs 120 bucks! Obviously, these old school, flipping mirror DSLRs like the latest Canon T4i attempt do not hold a candle to today's modern mirrorless design cameras, or even to the SLT design favored by Sony. But hey, DSLRs will always have their defenders, no matter what and at what cost.

Aug 21, 2012permalink

"So far we have seen on-sensor phase detection from: Fujifilm, Nikon and now Canon (Ricoh had a two-sensor hybrid system, but that's different)"

Fuji? Which one?
At least Sony NEX-5R and NEX-6 with on-sensor PDAF are all over Internet...

Aug 21, 2012permalink

fdfgdfgdgf

The photo gallery link is broken

I Looked again to video section and photo preview, Amadou review seems very good particularly covering all real-life aspects in video/photo gallery

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

Richard Shih

Thanks for mentioning that. It's been fixed.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

So, it is the same ancient sensor from 7D and 550D (Rebel T2i)... High ISO is no better.

Aug 20, 2012permalink

Its new because they have Phase detector built in now.

Aug 20, 2012*permalink

Esa Tuunanen

That phase detection aspect looks little weak with only some irregularly positioned pixels equipped for it unlike in Nikon 1 whose sensor has lines of pixels capable to phase detecting just like in SLR's separate PDAF sensors.
http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/recent-teardowns/2012/07/inside-the-canon-rebel-t4i-dslr/

Aug 20, 2012permalink

But the other, more important aspects of the sensor are the same, as evidenced by the behind-the-times noise and DR of the sensor. Use of some pixels for phase detection vs light gathering is a relatively minor modification.

Aug 20, 2012permalink