Way to go dpreview for deleting my post about there not being a dislike button due to the madness of political correctness. The same madness that caused you to delete my post.

Do liberals like free speech? Sure, as long as they agree with it, otherwise it is censored. So much for being liberal, huh?

@Maxim_C - LOL, I don't remember when Canon was *ever* cool. What are you smoking? Nikon was always the "cool" camera company! Plus, I think you're a bit self-delusional if you think you're such a big influencer in the camera market. Besides, keep in mind that people have been predicting Canon's demise for the last ten years. It's the same old broken record *every* year and with *every* camera model that Canon releases. It's almost become a sport now. But frankly, I think Canon has a better understanding of the camera market than the average internet forum yahoo does. Of course, everyone likes to think that they know how to run a company better. It makes them feel important. That's just human nature! And ten years from now, there will be another Maxim_C declaring "Canon isn't COOL anymore! They're done for!" Like I said, same old broken record from the same old self-important internet yahoos. Deja vu all over again.

In the meantime, check out Amazon's "Hot New Releases in Digital SLR Cameras" list where Rebel T4i takes 4 of the first 5 spots. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting the facts.

http://tinyurl.com/cehuvv2

#1. Canon EOS REBEL T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital Camera with 18-135mm EF-S IS STM Lens
#2. Canon EOS REBEL T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital Camera with 3-inch Touchscreen and Full HD Movie Mode (Body Only)
#3. Canon EOS Rebel T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital SLR with 18-55mm EF-S IS II Lens
#5. Canon EOS Rebel T4i (Body Only) 18-megapixel Digital SLR with 8GB SDHC Memory Card

Sorry, Maxim_C, but in your infinite wisdom, maybe you missed the idea that some people actually think the multi-touch LCD on the Rebel T4i is "cool"? Maybe you're not as big of an "enthusiast influence" as you think you are? Maybe Canon understands the camera market a bit better than you do? Maybe you're yet another internet yahoo prematurely predicting Canon's demise? Something to consider.

I return in my infinite wisdom:) Hot new releases list is artificially skewed toward Newly released cameras, and T4i being the latest recently released DSLR takes top places. On the other hand if we take a look at total DSLR sales, a different situation takes place: http://tinyurl.com/co643wo

1. Canon EOS Rebel T3i
2. Nikon D800
3. Nikon D5100
4. Nikon D3100
5. Canon EOS Rebel T3

As you see T4i fails to make to the top 5 in overall sales:)
Don't worry, I am not self delusional and don't consider myself a great influencer, I was merely giving an example of human behavior where enthusiast end up influencing purchasing decisions of others. And "congratulations" on your 16K posts, who's an internet yahoo after all...

First of all, I don't think the T4i is doing too shabby at #7, especially since it's at full retail price compared to its sister models that have been discounted. Secondly, it's clear that there are a LOT of Canon DSLRs on that list, so I don't think it's rational to be predicting Canon's doom just yet! LOL! Thirdly, I don't see many Oly m4/3 bodies on that list. Do you? Fourthly, how much do you want to bet that by the end of the year the T4i will be within the top 5?

And finally, Canon generally does not "lead in innovation" with their Rebel models! That's what models like the 1DX are for. And it's "COOL" models like the 1DX, capturing "COOL" Olympic photos like those captured at the London Olympics, that continue to give Canon the "COOL" factor. Same goes for Nikon. Call us when Reuters or Sports Illustrated switches to Oly m4/3! LOL.

BTW, I also gladly defend against internet yahoos who predict Nikon's imminent doom, too.

Haha, good point. On the other hand the reason that OMD isn't on the list is that Oly can't make enough of them to satisfy the demand. Its been only a week since OMD became more or less in stock on Amazon.
I am not spelling Canon's doom or anything so dramatic. I am sure that they will be fine down the road. Neither I am arguing that Canon's are somehow inadequate ( I have photographed plenty of weddings with 7d, 40d, 30d and other older models before that) as far as professional photography goes, equipment has never been the major factor. Its photographer's skill, experience and imagination what makes great photos. I am merely being nostalgic for time when I loved my Rebel 2000 and 28-135 IS setup. That lens was best bang for the buck in the consumer segment for several years. I just want to be excited about new Canon tech, but instead of innovating they have been playing it safe lately.

Maybe your nostalgia as passed, but I can assure you that there are many young photographers who are living and creating their own future nostalgia with their new Rebel T4i's and 18-135IS's today. People forget that Canon still have an enormously strong heritage, and a huge lens system, and a massive pro usership that a lot of these younger photographers, just starting off with their new Rebels, aspire to be one day. They aren't so jaded as you are, and they see nothing but potential with their new Canon cameras, while you might only see anger, disappointment, and despair (for whatever reason). Just don't poison their minds with your jaded attitude. Leave them to enjoy their passion and optimism just like you were able to do when you were their age.

BTW, people have *always* complained that Canon were "playing it safe" for as long as I can remember. Maybe it's just that Canon likes to play it *smart*, which is why they continue to be such a strong company after so many years.

@T3 you are wasting yourself on DPReview:) "anger, disappointment, and despair" you should be writing bad fiction instead! Instead of "poisoning their minds" i'm pointing them in a direction of better deal. Photographic potential can be discovered with any camera, so why not spend the money wisely. As far as playing it safe, actually you are right, back in the days it was Minolta who was introducing new tech into their bodies (such as laser focus assist etc).

NEXs are fine cameras. But these belong to completely different category - DSLR vs compact body MILC. I don't really see the point of your post...

NEX-6 is here just to illustrate the point of stupidity of buying a Rebel now. Different category? How so, the price is similar, viewfinder is there and it can take pictures. That one uses outdated technology does not make them totally incomparable.
And the point is - WHY would anybody buy the WORST current camera in it's price category? It is not even the cheapest - just the worst.

The differences in dynamic range and shadow noise are not miniscule or trivial and do affect real world shooting and the results you can achieve, no pixel peeping required.

We get it T3, Canon can do no wrong and is the best no matter what. You can stop with your insulting, argumentative posts now.

I agree Canon is behind, but "getting lapped" is quite a stretch.

deleted.

Simple, T4i and D3200 are not in the same category. While D3200 is entry level, T4i is mid level camera. D3200 should be compared with Canon T3 or upcoming Canon T4 (if any). Don't through question blindly.

i do have rebel beside these kind of lenses! i like the small body with good pic quality.rebel was the best at this, but 650 change this way( at least to me). i don't like to pay premium money for features i don't use, better spend it on lenses.

beside all that. am afraid if we accept this now from canon, then they will follow the route with each camera they gonna release in future. they would degrade its pic quality since they see people wont complain about it.which is not acceptable at all.

Personally I think there is a large untapped market for pro build, pro featured, pro priced cameras at the size of the entry level cameras.

Huh? I think there will be a lot of consumers who will think that the multi-touch functionality of the touchscreen to be very useful. Same goes for the increase to 5fps. Same with the gain of all 9 sensors now being cross-type sensor. Plus, not everyone finds FF to be "useful" because it entails having a larger body and lenses than what you can get with EF-S equipment. FF fans tend to believe that FF is the end-all and be-all of photography, but it really isn't. In fact, for a lot of consumer photographers, it's really FF that is "a waste."

I shoot with 1.6x and FF bodies. FF is nice to have, but certainly not a necessity. There are plenty of other features that can be considered more "useful." And BTW, if you think that Canon can stuff a 5DII into a Rebel body and sell it for $999, you're nuts. Cuckoo!

@Heie2 - I wasn't aware that the Pentax K-5 was a FF DSLR. Oh, wait, it's not!

@Shakens:

Don´t touch the screen then! The controls are there anyway, if you don´t like it "the touchscreen way"...

And if you have greasy fingers any camera would be getting "greasy finger marks all over..."

Deem the 650D on its actual merits, or lack thereof, please

Oh I don't know, I used to keep cleaning the screen on my G2 LOL but I rarely used the touch screen on it to be fair, so it's not such a big deal anyway compared to a non touch screen.

I thought I was going to dislike the touchscreen and felt similar to your sentiments. turns out it is quite a nice feature for some of the shooting I do and honestly my finger is less greasy than my nose that often hits the screen. Sorry if that was TMI for folks :) I have a full review/demo of the touchscreen on my site - happy to share it with anyone interested.

Happy with a phone camera now?

7D as overkill? Ha, tell me about it! I saw the saddest thing at a wedding, someone with a 7D and 430 EX... with the old non-IS 18-55 kit! Now that is overkill, while I dream of the 7Ds autofocus that doesn't miss like my rebel's so often...

And as for landscapes, that weather sealing is suuure nice to keep in mind when hiking around. Of course the sealed lens is required too.

Hey T3, just use a 7D yourself instead of pontificating against it. You can pour tea over your Rebel as much as you want and you will end up with a ruined camera. Amateurs always know better....

hello Couscousdelight....my eyes are OK...thanks :))
In your comparison i even can not see sony nex-F3, i think you need to see a doc :))) you put nex5N...
on the other hand, take a look at that; canon is far better than nex-F3...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_eos650d&masterSample=img_1020.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_eos650d&slot0Sample=img_1020.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=sony_nexf3&slot1Sample=dsc00751.acr&x=0.9600298892738265&y=-1.2313782140730292&extraCameraCount=0

I did consider the 7D and even the D7000, they seem to have great image quality, but neither has the swivel screen, quite heavy for my liking, in addition to being a little out of my budget.
As I said I considered several, the 5100 I didn't care for its grip, it felt strange in my hand. I loved the feel of the SLT57, but hated the screen swiveling downwards, but man is it fast. And the new micro 4/3rds, they just felt weird in my hand. So anyway going by process of elimination, I ended up with either the t3i or the t4i, with the newbie me thinking I might as well go for the 'newest' with its new bells and whistles that it would last me a little longer, my only concern about it is the fact that its noise seems to be higher than the t3i. Essentially it's a t4i with new stuff, less slight image quality, and more expensive vs. t3i, less all the new goodies, slight improvement in quality, and can now be had for a real bargain.

I'd go with T3i considering better noise.. in my opinion, the difference with T4i is nice but not curcial. Hybrid AF is helping the focus but only if you use a lot of live view (I usually use live view with Quick AF though). The extra money you can spend on a better lens

Just a note that unless you buy used the t3i is actually as cheap or cheaper than the t2i on Amazon.

Maybe I got a bad copy or something but i hated my T2i. (I know I'm in the minority here) but the IQ was worse than my T1i, images were just softer even with sharpness turned up. Color reproduction wasn't as good either. I dumped that thing as soon as the T3i came out and never looked back.

Yes, I'm coming from a p&s. Right now the t4i is $949 on Amazon, vs a t3i (which I can get in a package with a couple lenses for $830 or so). I like the fact of the unlimited video length and the stereo mics, and the idea of touch to focus is really nice too (I know this may not be for the pro's here, but just newbie me). Ok, let me ask it differently, does whatever the t4i add outweigh the slight noise increase over the t3i, putting prices aside?

The noise difference is really quite minor. People are bugged about it because they were expecting improvement. Personally, I'd spend a little more for the t4i. Touch focus is a very useful feature, and the video features are up to date.

However... if I were coming from a p+s I'd be careful about buying any dslr. I know they are what 'real' photographers use, but they are also heavy and bulky and so are the lenses.

Mirrorless cameras will give you equivalent IQ to entry-level dslrs in smaller, lighter packages. You've probably heard the saying that the best camera is the one you have with you. It's realistic to carry one of the smaller mirrorless models with a pancake prime in a coat pocket, or even an MFT camera with the Panasonic 14-42 power zoom. Sure, you won't feel like a pro shooting with one, but you can learn just as much and take pictures that are just as beautiful. They also work well with old manual focus lenses via adapters. Some of those lenses (like old Russian lenses and even old manual focus Japanese lenses) are pretty cheap and you can build up a collection for way less than buying modern af lenses. Cameras with focus peaking, like the Sony NEX models, are very popular for shooting with old glass.

Mark, the reason I've excluded the mirrorless ones isn't really because I was looking for 'real photographers' cameras', I held a couple at the store and they really felt odd in my hand (I have big hands here, I kind of had to squeeze my fingers together to hold them, just like the Lumix FZ-47, I liked it, but it is quite small for my hand). On the other hand I found the 7d, D7000 to be really heavy to just casually hold and walk around with. The t3i/t4i seemed to strike that middle ground of fullness in the hand feeling yet still be light enough.

ThoughtfulMind, don't get suckered into an outdated system with the "new" camera with outdated sensor and outdated processor.
Get into DSLR if you want to go with full-frame cameras, as there is no alternative in this segment yet. Then you have a choice of 4 current cameras: Canon 1D X and 5D III, Nikon D4 and D800. But for the consumer-level cameras, the whole industry went into the new, mirrorless systems, with smaller lighter bodies and smaller lighter lenses.
If you want to start a new system, wait 3 weeks until Photokina, a lot of new stuff will be announced, and you will be able to make a rational decision instead of going with either of the pathetic Rebels.

peevee1, that's pretty much my decision at this point, see what will come out of Photokina and probably buy around thanksgiving. I am really intrigued about the K-5 but it seems that it's a little old and a little lacking as far as video capabilities, the reviews of the K-30 are good too, but it has no external mic and just a mono mic. I guess I'll wait a little and see.
Just a question though, doesn't the t4i have the Digic 5 that's supposed to be a new processor?

I have heard people use the Nikon 1 with the FT-1 adapter and the 85mm f1.4 with good results. You can hardly get more critical than that.

I understand the point that bigger mirrorless are closer to the 650D because they are... Bigger. But comparing a DSLR against a mirrorless is comparing apples and oranges already. For the 650D apple the closer is the Nikon 1 orange because they share a key feature - on-sensor AF.

I did not know that the Nikon 1 uses either PDAF or CDAF, but not both. Thanks , Bart.

On reflection that makes sense. On-sensor PDAF does not have the flapping mirror/mechanized PDAF that DSLRs have. On-sensor PDAF just has less to be miscalibrated, so a CDAF trim is perhaps not needed.

My question would be: what is it about the Canon on-sensor PDAF that requires a CDAF trim where Nikon does not? Perhaps a critical patent Nikon is not licensing?