TinyMOS startup introduces Tiny1 astrophotography camera: Digital Photography Review

TinyMOS startup introduces Tiny1 astrophotography camera

Published Oct 1, 2015 | Brittany Hillen

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Most popular (11)

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aaron2016

astrophotography using a tiny lence without a tracking platform?

Jul 4, 2016permalink

0MitchAG

7 months late and still unimpressive... and no new photos to see.

Jun 8, 2016*permalink

Astroholic

As mentioned above the released images don't give good impressions about quality of the cam. A mid quality moonshot and bloomed starfield don't give a good impression of the quality of future images even with better lenses or scopes.
From a real astro photographer's view, there's nothing more than pixel size. What's your cams? Bad s/n ratio is a nogo for astro photography. Bad dynamics won't be improved esentialy by readout amp.
What's your pixel size? 1 µm?
Full well? 10,000 e-? 5,000e-?
Linearity?
...
And ... without moving to real dark skies (Australia?) and testing it I can't give your project any positive comment.

Oct 15, 2015permalink

GrahamHO

The fact that this is from students at the National University of Singapore makes me take notice. They are at the cutting edge of technology I believe. I'm looking forward to seeing this design and whatever they come up with in the future. Watch their space.

Oct 6, 2015permalink

Lassoni

I'm not impressed..

Oct 4, 2015permalink

Clint71

Thats the Dp review spirit I remember.

Oct 10, 2015permalink

Jim in AZ

The lens looks like a wide field eye piece.

Oct 4, 2015permalink

Nathebeach

it kind of does. Hope it has good relief. Most wide field's do. Wonder if it will do prime focus, or is the lens fixed? I can't tell from the images if it is through lens or not.

Oct 4, 2015permalink

Nathebeach

Having worked for at a major "orange" telescope co. at the corporate level, I can say this is a good idea. The critics on this site are wearing their ignorance as a badge of honor. Anyone know if the interface is 0.96, 1.25, or 2 inch. 1.25 is the most common. Maybe they will sell adapters, or is it already using standard threads (t40? 42? been so many years I do not remember). Wonder if it uses Astro stack or if it is able to use the four k video and stack the best shots? What about cooling? Lots of non consumer cameras need to be cooled because it increases light sensivity on film and digital. Wonder if that will make its way to the consumer market?

There are lots of things this could have that would not work on today's smart phones. Trolls, please close your mouths and learn the product before criticizing.

Oct 3, 2015*permalink

TinyMOS

Hi Nathebeach, thanks for your support! The camera is designed with the CS mount in mind so that it has a short flange distance to support the maximum amount of legacy optics possible. We are building some form as basic stacking in the camera to enable the average consumer to be able to have access to good astro images off the camera. Advanced users will still have access to RAW for their preferred image post processing. Cooling is a feature that we may add in the future, possibly as an accessory for advanced users.

For more information please subscribe to www.tinymos.com/subscribe. we will be releasing more information and collecting applications for beta testers shortly.
- Grey

Oct 5, 2015*permalink

nerd2

Let's get real. Just check who's the founders of this company. One self claimed photographer, One mechanical engineering graduate and one engineering undergraduate. All they have showed so far is the shiny case. Are you guys seriously think they can make something functional at all? Really?

I think all they can reasonably do (and maybe actually going to do) is ask a Chinese company to build a tiny android device inside their box and make a star chart view program for it.

Oct 3, 2015*permalink

omga14

I will not judge until we see the actual product. There are extremely intelligent people out there who have ideas, and in this current world of Kickstart and other means to get funding it is a wait and see final product kind of thing.

Oct 3, 2015permalink

steve9119

"self claimed photographer", what a joke...

The only person who should be able to engineer a camera is a photographer chosen by GOD.

I remember being at a camera store in my town and seeing a nice camera, I heard a voice from up in the clouds (it sounded like GOD) The voice told me who ever could remove that lens cap could have that camera and BE a photographer.

Well all the customers in the shop tried to remove that lens cap, but it was stuck tight, impossible to remove.

It was my turn to try, when sudenly the clouds opened up and a ray of sunshine shone down to illuminate the me. As I tried the lens cap released and I had then BECOME the chosen one.... a photographer.

So after paying for the camera, some accessories, memory cards, a carry case, extra lens, comfortable neck strap and tripod, I was then anointed by the King, and hence forth known as THE PHOTOGRAPHER.

let's get real....

*thanks to King Arthur....
and my local camera store www.excaliburcameras.com :)

Oct 4, 2015permalink

bwana4swahili

It may be a great Engineering learning project but they aren't doing themselves any favors with the images they've posted! If the camera is capable of better quality, let's see it. If not, shelf the project as a good learning undertaking and move on...

Oct 3, 2015*permalink

TinyMOS

hello bwana4swahili, thanks for your comment. We will try to improve the image quality as soon as we get a chance to. We started 18 months ago and we only started getting the engineering sample recently. As we live in Singapore, dark skies are not easily accessible to us for testing. The regional haze definitely hindered our efforts.

Regards,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

Dan Tong

I'd like to see some of the Automatically Negative idiots in these forums actually create something other than spitting out hostility. Sure you can find apps for lots of things -try writing one, or even use a voltmeter before mouthing off. It's too bad there is not a Stupidity/Hostility Cutoff Filter for Comments -we'd lose a good 65% of these posts... :)

Oct 2, 2015permalink

nerd2

You may not understand people with common sense and domain knowledge...

Oct 3, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

thanks Dan Tong for your support. We really appreciate it. We are definitely going against conventional camera design to provide a new imaging tool and experience for the everyday camera user. I think that we'll definitely face quite a bit of negative comments over our "unconventional" methods. I wouldn't suprise myself I had laughed at Nick Woodman's first concept of GoPro. As with all new technology and thinking, it is always 1 step back before we can take 2 steps forward.

Warm regards,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

nerd2

The thickness of the device clearly shows the sensor is TINY and not worth anything. You can install star chart app on any smartphones everyone have so what's the point?

Oct 2, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

Actually, the mount standard we use supports up to 1" sensors. The name of the company on the other hand should indicate that we are using Tiny (C)MOS actually.

Cheers,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

AstroStan

No doubt this is a worthwhile lesson / exercise. But the results (shown on their webpage) are awful. Any cheap point-and-shoot can do as well and most can perform better.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

photomedium

I think this particular one is an excellent example of extremely poor student mentoring/advising.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

sh10453

I respectfully disagree. Having taught electrical engineering, I can see the tremendous amount of lessons learned here in circuit design, board layout, schematic diagrams, microprocessor and component selection, control engineering, optics, programming, calibration, astronomy, ..., etc.

Even if the project ends here, the lessons they have learned can be applied in their future careers, and I can bet that they will be selected for employment at some major photography companies before anyone else who is without such experience.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

photomedium

Poor design riddled with compromises that ultimately won't do the job. Considerable investment of time and money for a completely unmarketable project.
Yes, there is a life lesson in there for sure.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

steve9119

Well done, some people here forget this is university students having a go at electronic engineering, manufacturing techniques, business, teamwork and product design. Probably aged around 20, they will go on to work in a variety of technical fields. No doubt a project like this will be great experience, and a good way to network with visiting engineers assisting in this project. It may lead to an awesome career, maybe designing cameras or any other item imaginable.

If any one has the time I recommend a visit to the next university open day in your city....

Oct 2, 2015permalink

fratiodan

I already posted this elsewhere, but ...So what if it's a startup from University Students, what is your point? Maybe someone should teach them ethics. This is their attempt at exploitation of the average consumer. They haven't invented anything special that a well equipped engineering student couldn't do. The average consumer wont have the patience for astrophotography even if you do point them towards the stars. This is nothing but an attempt at bragging rights for them.

*Full disclosure, I'm an engineering student too.*

Just because your idea might be loud doesn't mean it's special.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

sh10453

fratiodan,
I do not see any ethics issue here at all. I am an engineer as well, and I had taught electrical engineering after graduate school, and very well familiar with EE students' projects.

It is possible that this was a joint senior project for the students.
If they have succeeded in overlaying interactive sky maps on the camera screen, then it is not a trivial job that "any well-equipped engineering student" can do.

"Bragging rights" is very common among young college students, especially when they accomplish something like this, and that is not unethical.

I'm pretty confident that by the time they graduate, they will have plenty of offers from multiple major photography companies to work for them.

Let's be a bit humble, and also let's encourage them instead of this vicious attack on them that has been repeated twice so far.
Better yet, you should show us your accomplishments, as a well-equipped engineering student!

Simply put, just don't donate to funding their project.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

rishikol

Cool thinking...... considering the fact that we only use a small part of the sensor while photographing celestial objects it is a good idea to have a high resolution high sensitivity small sensor that supports small or big lenses. I believe it will make the art of astrophotography affordable and fun..... Cheers

Oct 2, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

Thank you rishikol! Actually that was the genesis of our idea. A large sensor will require large optics to perform the same task of acquiring a small object such as the planets and the Moon. For planetary imaging the optics becomes prohibitively large. We tried imaging Saturn with a 3500mm Equivalent focal length and we barely got the rings to show. If we were using FX cameras to capture it, imagine a 3500mm lens and the corresponding lens mount for it. That would be enterprise level/varsity level equipment that will not be portable.
We are very lucky to have a high sensitivity sensor which allowed us to perform wide field imaging of the Milky Way. We should be testing the camera on M42 Great Orion Nebula in the coming month. Stay tuned and subscribe to www.tinymos.com/subscribe

Regards,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

Joriarty

Cool concept, but I'm not convinced why you'd buy this instead of any normal mirrorless camera. Give it a sensor without a CFA, and a built-in filter wheel, and we might be talking. Tell me why I should use this, rather than my Fuji X camera, for wide-field astrophotography...

And for deep-sky stuff (basically anything other than the Milky Way, moon, or planets), there really is no such thing as "amateur" astrophotography. You have to be seriously dedicated. It's expensive and difficult.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

King Penguin

Hey guys, give them a break........we should appauld them.....young people, clever, with ideas and energy, trying to innovate, trying to make their mark, not sitting around drinking beer and moaning.....bravo I say!

Not my photographic cup of tea but I wish them every success :)

Oct 2, 2015permalink

gsum

If this camera is the pure data capture device that it appears to be then excellent - this is the way all cameras should be designed. No in-camera processing, no ridiculous histograms, no useless articulated screens, no scene modes, no plethora of knobs and controls to get in the way - just a device that captures an image for subsequent processing using a PC. If that's what it is, I'll have one.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

Giklab

Thank heavens you don't design all cameras then.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

snarff

"Thank heavens you don't design all cameras then."

My thoughts exactly.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

sh10453

" - this is the way all cameras should be designed".
Should have said "my" instead of "all".

Oct 2, 2015permalink

CheersUK

There are plenty of cameras like that available already in the astrophotography market.

Oct 3, 2015permalink

JGoodard

Cool.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

rrccad

*facepalm*

Oct 2, 2015permalink

LF Photography

I just love these random new camera companies who go head first into a market they know nothing about with a product no one wants...
But why do market research when you're crowd-funded, right?

When it comes to astrophotography, the Pentax K-3 II with it's Astrotracer feature is about as good as it gets right now. Just get a good lens+tripod and off you go...

Oct 1, 2015permalink

RichRMA

These are aimed at people who know nothing of astronomy. No planetary or deepsky imager is going to buy it.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

0MitchAG

No person who knows nothing about those 3 is going to buy it either...

Oct 2, 2015permalink

CheersUK

Can't really see the benefit of this over a dslr. Now, if it had active cooling I may have taken it more seriously. I think they are trying to invent something that doesnt need inventing. I suppose the sky chart overlay is a cool feature, but would still have doubts about implementation and accuracy.

Oh, and the milkyway photo could have been taken with a better lens...atrocious lens aberration.

Oct 1, 2015*permalink

TinyMOS

Hi CheersUK! Active cooling might be something we add as an accessory in the future. For now the camera is designed more for wide field, planetary, lunar and solar imaging. The target objects would not benefit greatly from cooling but should benefit immensely from high FPS imaging. That is where we are heading towards at the moment. Regarding the wide field lens, we are designing our own optics in the future. Think of the test lens as a kit lens for now.

Cheers,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

jimrpdx

Very cool - for now my Pentax Q and 1.25" eyepiece adapter will do, but it's a great niche market to capture!

Oct 1, 2015permalink

RedDog Steve

Which lens mount ?

Oct 1, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

Hi RedDog Steve, we are using CS mount and will be providing adapter options to major DSLR mount types.

Cheers,
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

mpgxsvcd

"with the same performance level as a mirrorless camera"

What they don't say is how big the sensor is in that mirrorless camera they are comparing it to. My guess is that they are comparing it to a 1/3 inch sensor.

Here is my advice on Astrophotography. If someone is trying to sell you a DSO astrophotography camera then simply ask them “How big is the sensor” and “How long can it expose for”. If they don’t say the sensor is at least 1” diagonal and the exposures can go for at least 2 minutes then just keep moving along.

Oct 1, 2015permalink

DarnGoodPhotos

Based on its' name, perhaps 1".

Oct 1, 2015permalink

grasscatcher

Except star trails start to appear around 30 seconds, unless the camera is mounted on an astrotracker.

Oct 1, 2015permalink

NetMage

That depends on FOV of lens and declination of target...

Oct 1, 2015permalink

mpgxsvcd

"Except star trails start to appear around 30 seconds"

Star trails are not DSO astrophotography(Deep Space Objects). Any camera can take a star trail. Very few can see Deep Space Objects.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

rialcnis

Does it take selfies on the moon?

Oct 1, 2015permalink

Ben Ramsey

Yes, but you have to provide your own transportation.

Oct 1, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

@rialcnis - basically yes. We are trying to develop the wireless trigger to reach Tiny1 on Earth whilst you're on the Moon. Stay tuned and subscribe to www.tinymos.com/subscribe

Cheers!
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

nebulight

Hmmm, from those samples, I'd stick with something else, unless the price is super cheap, I don't see the benefit of this.

Oct 1, 2015permalink

jaxson

"TinyMOS startup introduces Tiny1 astrophotography camera"
Never saw the Pentax Q series...

Oct 1, 2015permalink

davecamerator

I read as far as "crowdfunding"

Oct 1, 2015permalink

EthanP99

"with the same performance level as a mirrorless camera"

like a pentax Q mirrorless?

Oct 1, 2015permalink

RedDog Steve

In the strictest sense, Pentax Q is not "mirrorless", it is not based on a system that ever had a mirror. Same for the Nikon 1, there was never a 1" reflex (mirrored) design.

Oct 1, 2015*permalink

GRUBERND

Steve, i like your thinking. in the same line is every camera without a bigger sibling always a FullFrame™ camera. which makes pretty much every phone a fullframe camera. Samsung built phones first, so their cameras have sensors a lot larger than fullframe.

Oct 1, 2015permalink

SirSeth

So in the "strictest sense".... oh wait, humans aren't running Unix command line prompts are they? I mean what if folks start calling bananas mirrorless bananas because, hey, they don't have a mirror? But, yeah, I'm glad you cleared that up for me because I was about to have a slice of mirrorless apple pie and listen to some tunes on my mirrorless ipod. ;) BTW, I'm guessing that in the strictest sense you are not a golden retriever and I'm barking up the wrong tree here. ;) (Don't take me too seriously, I'm just working on my forum stand up routine).

Oct 2, 2015permalink

John Bean (UK)

Don't give up the day job ;-)

Oct 2, 2015permalink

fratiodan

SirSeth...haha, well played sir. I might be willing to give your stand up a chance. ;)

Oct 2, 2015permalink

SirSeth

Well, there is plenty of material in DPR forums to make a go at it. ;) Just bring on equivalence arguments. "So if you put a BMW motor on a skateboard..."

Oct 2, 2015permalink

John Bean (UK)

A plain BMW engine would be too noisy. Now if you go for the Bentley version then I can imagine a whole different experience to mull over while waiting for the ambulance.

Oct 2, 2015permalink

TinyMOS

@ John Bean (UK) if acoustics or the lack thereof is the key concern, may I offer a Tesla motor instead?

Cheers!
Grey

Oct 5, 2015permalink

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