The two most-produced 35mm cameras of all time? You've probably never heard of them

DPReview is a gear site, it reviews cameras.

Grumpy old man alert!

somehow i have a feeling, if article wasn't so much about soviet union cameras, we wouldn't see this comment here..

Menneisyys,
my Quartz (1x Super8) was not actually cheap at all (<2x monthly salary?), looked quite impressive in its own way, the zoom lens was sharp, and the machine worked quite nice, including autoexposure metering. The same can be told about the projector. As a teenager, I developed my reversible Super 8 at home, and it's still alive/useable with respect to color and density.

I too did develop Super 8 reversible B&W film in a makeshift bathroom darkroom. I remember keeping the large transparent spool with the film wound up inside it in a water tank, while shining light on it to get the negative transform into positive. I could never do color film though, as chemicals were very expensive and unobtainable in the late 1970s in Poland. I also used Quartz movie camera. The projector was Soviet made, like most of the photography equipment available in the country in those days. Just like this one... https://www.etsy.com/listing/671840448/film-projector-movie-projector-automatic.

buratino: OIC. Back in time, I didn’t check out Russian S8 cameras as they weren’t available in my country as far as I recall (at least I don’t remember seeing them at all, unlike Japanese etc, stuff), unlike second-hand Quartz-5 Std8 models. The latter ran for very cheap - around 1/8th of the average salary around 1986? And, for me, super8 was just an also-ran system. I did have a S8 camera (a Japanese model) but shot very little with it as Standard 8 material was SO cheaper. ORWO’s Std8 films’ price was third / half the price of the Agfa S8 films - of course I went for ORWO and Std8 as, for the same price, I could have 3-5 times more playtime (also factoring in Std8’s offering significantly more playtime than S8). And the Quartz-5 Std8 camera wasn’t bad either - it even provided more zoom range than my Japanese 2x zoom S8 camera.

(cont'd)

(continuing from previous)

Now I feel VERY happy I didn’t bother with AGFA - their color films aged terribly, unlike ORWO’s. The latter has absolutely no color shifts, unlike AGFA. The latter now has awful pinkinsh tint. Fortunately, I only shot six rolls of AGFA back in the 80’s - all the rest (around 100-105 rolls) were all ORWO’s.

caesarb,
"large transparent spool with the film "... I was able to load four 15-meter films instead of nominal two into my double spool: in each spool, two films were back to back, and I ground out a millimeter or so from the grooves to fit that frame with touching emulsion. It worked! So instead of 2 subsequent and degrading baths I needed just one.

The projector you referred to is "Rus", mine is still working fine.
In 1978 I could not find thiosulphate fixer for my Smena 8M rolls, either, but I was not even a teenager then. Somehow, we took our hobby business quite seriously, without any aids. Later I successfully pushed my B &W ASA (or GOST?) 45 Super 8s to 90 for the reversible and even did not know that it's called "push-processing".

Menneisyys, "Now I feel VERY happy I didn’t bother with AGFA - their color films aged terribly, unlike ORWO’s".

I have never had a chance to use AGFA reversible, but once in a while, I was lucky enough to get ORWO UT-18. Recently I found my very first Super8 rolls shot on ORWO in 1984, they were lost for many years, so it was quite unexpected. Surprisingly, I did not find any degradation, fading, or color shift. Even mechanical integrity was good. Actually, all my films from that era, including the Soviet-made, did not degrade noticeably, it is the original color of ORWO that was better. So, ORWO was great from my own experience, but I did not expect to hear that ORWO is better than AGFA.

Jeff: I agree with you in principle, but they were not making the same salary. The salary ranges were tied to education and job assignment and were limited to a range of about 5x (at least in the Eastern European country where I came from). These are not very different from what used to be in the US - in the 1950s typical CEOs were making 20x the average worker. Of course, now the sky is the limit.

The difference: we have lots of cheap consumer goods, most of which have a better rep than 1950s Eastern Bloc stuff.

But yeah.. every year more and more dollars for weapons and fewer and fewer dollars for the veterans who come back damaged from deploying them.

Every year the rich get richer, pay less taxes (if they even pay any at all..) and the poor get poorer in service of making them richer still.

Jeff, the idea is right, but the salaries (and privileges!!!!) were different.

What's really funny is when the militant moron set tries to say that Bernie Sanders' style Democratic Socialism is the same as Communism.

Taxing the wealthy and using the money for education and infrastructure and healthcare ,so that everyone can have a lot more equal shot at being successful, isn't the same as everyone making the same salary and the state owning everything.

Mr. Bolton, You can't tax the rich. It's finance 101.

A university professor made more than a sweeper, but a skilled factory worker made more than either.

Guys, you'll have a democratic election soon. Many are counting on you!

@DGrinb that would be 'Reaganomics 101' and the results are of that are.. America today. Literally a dozen human beings owning more capital than the entire bottom 90 percent of the economy. And they're not reinvesting it in anything but Cayman Islands bank accounts..

@misha I come from a blue collar/union family and I have no problem with the people who actually generate that capital, making as much or more than the parasites who collect checks every month for nothing.

@ Bolton, and you can do nothing about it, no matter which ruling party you have , cause it's economics, not politics.
Here is the flow for you: democrats are trying to tax the rich with rich's money already built in a budget, rich find loopholes cause they have money and resources for that (lawyers and accountants) and get away with the taxes anyway, government starts to tax mid class cause they already rely on this money and they are short of it.
Ask Treadue, he is a pro in making debts like that...

So...

So.. back in the '70s, American CEOs saw actual prison time for doing things that the 2012 Citizens United ruling made perfectly legal.

Back in the '70s, America had a thriving middle class. Nowadays, they have to keep on printing money in order for there to be enough of it not tied up in Bezos et. al bank accounts to allow the economy to even function.

@Mr Bolton
"everyone making the same salary"
On the other hand, you could choose any job you'd like and wouldn't have to worry about hating your job and only doing it for the money. You'd like to contribute to society by doing particle physics research? Great! You'd like to contribute to society by sweeping streets? Also great! You could do whatever you want without worrying about money.

Roman Korcek
@Mr Bolton
"everyone making the same salary"
- this is proven so many times - it does not work!

@Video-vs-photo
Really? Has it already been tested somewhere? Would be definitely worth a read.

To be fair, Leninism was the style of government in Soviet Russia, not quite Communism.

And speaking of same salary.. when everyone at Amazon Pick and Walmart makes the same salary and has to have food stamps because eight of the literal richest human beings on earth (Seven Waltons and one Bezos) can't share enough to pay their help a living wage-then you know what? You're right. Equal salaries are a problem.

I like Fujifilm cameras.

capitalism vs communism ...1 you q for bead 1 you q for iphone ...you choose

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. "
Attributed to J K Galbraith

you are correct dave surrey...the men we exploit in the UK (and rest of the capitalist world) are the top 1% earners....that pay 28% of ALL income tax collected here ...i like them paying all that tax as it means i don't have to ...what i dont want is greedy folk to tax them to heavy so thay bugger off and make her money else wear...like they did in the 70s ...if the top 1% buggered off who do you think will be left to pay shortfall ...

@davev8
Money isn't magically created by rich people. They only redistribute more of it to themselves. I.e. the money would still be there. Just not in the hands of those people.

@Roman Korkek that probably why the top 1% pay 28% of all income tax collected ..that's an irrefutable fact (in UK) ...unless they take it out of the country (which is more likely to happen if tax is high or loopholes not closed)or stuff it under a very big mattress everybody else gets a slice ...you cannot have a millionaire lifestyle without spending it whether its on massive mansions or a fleet of cars or priceless art

In the USA, the top one percent own over 90 percent of the capital. The Fed literally must print more money for there to be enough in circulation to allow the economy to function, because they're hiding it all away.

And.. income from capital gains isn't taxed at anything like the taxes paid by workers. Last year, the wealthy set in America paid $538 billion in taxes. That sounds like a lot.. but it works out to be a lower percentage of their income paid in taxes by far than someone who makes $75,000 per year. The worker pays less in federal taxes, but since living hand to mouth sales tax takes ten percent of most of that right off the top. Then property and other local taxes.. Shaving thirty percent off a small business owner's salary is a lot different than shaving thirty percent off a billionaire's capital gains.

I live within an hour's bike ride of over half a trillion dollars in personal wealth, owned by a smaller number of men than I have fingers on my left hand. Their percentage of taxes paid to the state, which is now facing a 9 billion dollar budget shortfall due to the Covid, while their windfall from the same Covid is some hundreds of billions of dollars more personal wealth?

Zero. They pay NO taxes on that wealth.

I am having a good year in my bicycle shop, and I have to pay more in taxes because of it. Fair enough. So.. why don't the billionaires have to pay more even when they make more?

i see in the US the top 1% pays 20% of all income tax ...what would you do if that 1% disappeared tomorrow and everybody else had to makeup that shortfall..out of interest your state 9B shortfall is it Democrat run or republican ran

@Roman Korcek
There are tooo many experiments but biggest problem is most of the time communist/socialist are very bad educated if they are at all!
So you can start your reading with very interesting experiment which almost killed colony at Plymouth. And following from this thanksgiving day!!!
But maybe THE BEST example is the life of Marx. First he lived from his father money. Later from the sale of his wife's jewels. Which is of aristocratic origin BTW. And also Engels provided him with "free flat" and now the GREATEST PART FREE HOUSEMAID!!! So actually trough his whole live he was EXPLOITER!!!
Not only this but it was totally incapable to raise and educate his own children. And all of them died......... What a great story for the life of a person who tried to make the world "better and rightly" place.
If you are not able to judge for yourself let me tell you - NO WAY!
Buuut! Colony at Plymouth is good start.

@davev8
Why do you think rich people give more money to society than they take away from it?
As an example, if a group of rich people who make let's say $10 billion a year and pay say $1 billion in taxes per year suddenly disappeared, why do you only see losing $1 billion in taxes but don't see that there are $9 billion left somewhere? They don't just disappear.

@Dave my state is run primarily by Dems, but the Covid doesn't care. Due to the utter, laughable failure of Republicans at the federal level to provide any leadership whatsoever beyond a single $1200 payment to out of work folks back in April.. well, they've proposed another tax cut for the class who became collectively $317 billion richer in three months because of said Covid.. our own state's unemployment fund-paid for entirely by workers-has come up short due to the pandemic.

But the billionaire's company gets to make more billions at our expense.

And since the top one percent own 90 percent of the capital.. then isn't 20 percent of the tax burden one heckuva tax break in and of itself?

I've been to Socialist countries. There are still yachts, cotillions, hundreds of thousands of Euro sports cars-all the trappings of wealth.

Sick to death of the assertion that there wouldn't be rich people anymore if we shaved half of their capital gains every year in taxes.

And yes, classical Marxism is too fragile to survive in the real world. Probably why modern day Socialism *isn't Marxism.*

@Mr Bolton
In Norway the oil companies are taxed at 78%. It's still the largest industry and it's still profitable.

Mr bolton what are the socialist countries you have visited ?

France, Switzerland, and Italy. OK, I don't know if Italy quite counts tho. But at least they do have universal healthcare.

mr bolton laws of capitalism still operated fully and private enterprise dominate the economy, in all of those countries you say ...sweden and norway would have been a better choice
how you turn a country into a socialist state 101 ...you turn the poor against the rich ...like you get rich socialist politicians telling you its the other rich that made you poor ... you disarm the population .remove free speech where possible .you turn any factions against each other ,,all i have to say is BLM a divided population is easier to control you make as much as the population as reliant on the state as possible health care helps but the best one is poverty laxing drug laws and general lawlessness anything to cause disruption ..
Continued

.your state that's $9B in the red if its been democrat for a long time i bet you have a lot of homeless folk, likes importing illegals for votes has a big drug problem and the policies of any mayors or big politician due to relaxed policies or on purpose will enhance all of the above ..what state do you live in ???

@davev8
I have visited and live in the eastern block, and let me tell you - brain damage, corruption and poverty is in all of them. And they look like maid by template.
Buut in the western society which actually produced fascism and communism now situation has a great potential to become much worse! Just because family failure and birth rates. Western Europe is actually dying because of his own stupid teachings and philosophy - materialism, relativism, humanism, communism, fascism and modern version of social-liberal-pseudo-science ....
Well done guys! Maybe you are not trying hard enough to build the perfect social society! But hey you will need people for it and if not people are born and grow up the end will be exactly as Marx own family............

You lost me at "importing illegals for votes" there, tRump humper.

I live in Washington state, where the income disparity between the rich and the poor, combined with a city council who have given the big C Capitalists everything they want for decades-every tax break, zoning exemption, neighborhood gentrification-has gotten the rents so high and the wages so low that here we are. They're Democrats when it comes to LGBTQ+ equality, for the most part, but like good little Republican toadies, they've given Boeing and Amazon everything they ask for.

And our tax dollars subsidize those profits, which we don't get to share in, they don't trickle down. Bezos' fortune is back up to where it was before the divorce-with zero taxes on that windfall. People die in his sweatshops to make that happen while our taxes pay the L and I claims. Socialism for the wealthy.

i would give Amazan and boeing all the tax breaks i could..its a sprat to catch a mackerel ..in fact a shoal of mackerel ..we don't have Boeing in the uk but i would say to boeing come over here its free..maybe you are confusing turnover with profit and that's why you think nothing trickle down which is so far from the truth
A big company is doing VERY well if they make 10% profit out of thier turnover after costs ..say Amazon makes $1B profit which means they have had $9B costs those costs are all the infrastructure like buildings/warehouses some body has to make them and their upkeep ..IT and all the cost involved companies like fedex/UPS the lease company that supply the vans .the drivers the mechanics ..the fuel stations and the list go on and on and on .
Continued

.if you have Amazan and boeing in your state and they left 1/2 your state will be unemployed..thousands of families with no income..hundreds of support business closing down .all because you don't have that $9B costs that Amazon spend now i think you are being VERY VERY selfish if you deny all those families an income just because you don't like and get bitter and twisted because some bald headed guy gets very rich out of it ...if he did not think he was going to get rich he would not of bothered and then where would you be...ho yes quing for a bread loaf instead of an iphone

Dave Boeing did in fact leave our state. Their offices are in Chicago now, they fired most of their union staff and now outsource much to Alabama where they'll work for peanuts.

Hey, remember when Boeing aircraft weren't all grounded for safety reasons? Remember when they didn't catch fire on the runway because French monitoring systems failed to mind British charging systems burning up Chinese batteries..? BONUS: Hey, remember when totally Socialist Airbus couldn't underbid Boeing's tax break profit derived outsourcing union busting CEO enrichment business plan?

Believe me, us Washingtonians remember when Boeing was profitable, couldn't be underbid by Airbus, their planes were the safest in the world-and *all their aircraft were built in Renton and Everett by fully benefited UNION HANDS.*

I don't care if Bezos is rich. Good for him. I care that he pays no taxes, and 99 percent of his jobs are literal sweatshop labor for Walmart greeter wages. I care that we're all chattel.

Ah --- the Fujifilm camera was a 35mm disposable.

Disposable cameras are 35mm as well, like the currently best selling camera at Amazon: Kodak FunSaver 35 mm.
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/281052

The first camera I used was my mom's Brownie Box. It shoot 620 roll film. Used it in my first trip to Yellowstone National Park. Six images. My last trip to Yellowstone (my 9th) was well over 1,000 shots. How things change.

Correct, but you could not catch all flaws during such rushed inspection. Once empty shelves and super-inflation hit in mid 1980s, you would buy a box, take it home, and then open it to see what product you were lucky to have bought. One of the paradoxes of that life, that time.