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Five ways the Canon EOS R could be improved (hint: it's all about the operation)

A critique, not a conclusion
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A critique, not a conclusion

The EOS R is Canon's entry into the full-frame mirrorless camera market and, while it doesn't look all that revolutionary at first glance, looks can be deceiving: this is a big step for the world's largest camera manufacturer. The EOS R comes with a new mount, a new lens lineup, and some new functionality. Most crucially, it's capable of capturing fantastic photographs.

But as we approach the completion of our full EOS R review, we wanted to address a few areas where we believe it could be improved (just like we did with Nikon's Z7). These principally concern usability and, to a degree, ergonomics, too, but also include limitations of some of the features included the EOS R as well as limitations imposed on the user by features that have been left out.

While some of these issues have been a feature of Canon's various lineups for some time, the EOS R - and the fresh start it represents - are a great opportunity for the company to take a fresh look at how it can make the camera more usable for more people.

So without further ado, here's what we'd like to see Canon try to improve in the EOS R.

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Oldest first
Shutterbug1947

Focusing with the EOS R is slow and clunky, a definite problem. Wonder if new firmware would fix it? When you get a photo right it is great, but a lot of misses.

3 weeks ago
CaNikonianite
CaNikonianite

Comment #500. Sorry, had to do it.

2 months ago
entoman

Ways to improve the EOS-R:

Not much can be done to change the bad ergonomics, short of a complete redesign, but firmware to improve the functionality would help. Given that the camera is what it is and can't be changed, the only other thing to do is to very rapidly expand the lens range to include macros and the "trinity" zooms.

The next EOS-R series model is rumoured to be a cheaper base model. Hopefully this will NOT have the slide-bar, but *will* have improved battery performance.

A semi-pro model should be released next year. If so, it needs to be larger, with 5DMkiv-style ergonomics, twin SD slots, massively improved battery performance, and much faster burst rate, before I'll even consider adding it to my arsenal.

I also hope that Canon resist the temptation to start another megapixel war - 24-30MP is more than adequate for most people, but it would be nice of they also produced a 40-50MP version to compete with the Nikon Z7 and Sony a7Riii (iv?) for those of us who need it.

2 months ago*
entoman

My personal wish-list:

1 - State-of-art 30MP sensor
2 - IBIS, so I can use non-stabilised Canon optics such as 180mm macro.
3 - Full size rear thumbwheel as per 7DMKii, 5DMkiv etc.
4 - Physical AF toggle, as per 7DMKii, 5DMkiv etc.
5 - PASM mode dial with programmable C1, C2 and C3 custom modes.
6 - Tilting (Nikon-style) rear monitor.
7 - Twin SD slots
8 - optical viewfinder and (quiet) shutter/mirror

2 months ago*
Iloveaircraftnoise

Just lower the price please.

2 months ago
pentaust

Does the EOS R have a mirror simulation mode? (such as shutter sound simulation on smartphones)

2 months ago
Shiranai
Shiranai

The R has a mechanic shutter and thus makes already a noise taking a photo. Unless in silent mode.
https://youtu.be/y_NpA7dcJiQ

2 months ago*
Shiranai
Shiranai

Improve the luminosity streaking problem which was already pointed out years ago in the 5D4 sensor.

2 months ago
JeroenD

I think it's all about marketing strategy. When the camera would be 'perfect', the users will be less induced to buy its successor. The manufacturer leaves a few flaws on purpose, so there will be room for improvements on the successor.
(I hope my English is not too bad...)

2 months ago
Mustafa

Add in-body memory, like the Zeiss ZX-1. Then there will be no need for a second slot.

2 months ago
borax
borax

Loose or break your camera, loose your pictures... no way for fixed size built in memory.

2 months ago
T3

The mark up price on internal memory is typically far more expensive than if you were to buy it externally in memory card form. It would be frightening to think how much Canon would charge for internal memory. After all, Canon is charging $190 for a USB power cable. https://www.adorama.com/capde1.html

2 months ago*
davev8
davev8

what if you could transfer the back up in real time to a mobile device ....ho wait

2 months ago
T3

@davev8 - How much free storage does the average mobile device have? Not much. Or maybe by "mobile device" you meant a laptop? Yeah, great idea, let's lug around a laptop everywhere we go. All of this so that we can avoid putting a second card slot into the camera? Ridiculous.

2 months ago
davev8
davev8

phones with up to 128GB of onboard storage, a microSD slot to expand the storage up to 512GB....and can be uploaded to social media or cloud in seconds your no 2 slot can't do that...it will be the future ...you don't know it yet

2 months ago*
borax
borax

Everybody doesn't have a smartphone, especially in professional environnement. Everybody doesn't have access to wireless internet. Moreover, I don't see the advantage of having a memory card in a smartphone compared to a second memory card in a camera.

2 months ago
T3

@davev8 - Most phones these days do not have expandable storage. And even if you did have a 128gb phone, that doesn't mean you have 128gb free! Furthermore, wireless transfer is far from bulletproof. And it's a battery drain, not only on the phone but also on the camera. It's MUCH more simple and reliable to simply have dual card slots. And even with dual card slots, you can STILL transfer to your phone for uploading if you like. Furthermore, as for immediate upload, not every place has good data reception. If you're shooting wildlife in a remote location, you may not have any reception at all. It is simply ridiculous to ignore or dismiss the simplest, most cost-effective, most battery-friendly way to have a redundant copy: dual card slots.

If you told existing Canon 1DXII and Nikon D5 users that the future updates of those models wouldn't have dual card slots, and you said, "Just transfer it to your phone!" they would laugh at you in your face.

2 months ago*
cdembrey

I learned photography shooting slides many years ago. I couldn't chimp with a film Canon and I choose not to chimp with a digital Canon. Here's what changes I'd like to see:
1) Delete rear screen like Leica did with the M10-D.
2) Leica FOTOS clone software for iOS and Android.
3) Zebra for setting exposure. Canon already has Zebra on their C-series video cameras. User can set clipping point—very handy.
4) Drop maga-pixels from 30 to 18 for even better low light performance.
5) IBIS not needed.

2 months ago
pentaust

Get yourself a Leica then.

2 months ago
cdembrey

@pentaust, my other film camera is a 1935 Leica IIIa ;-)

2 months ago
ksharp

1. So don't use the rear screen. Some of us like to use that as a waist-level viewfinder.
2. I can get behind better software, sure.
3. same as 2
4. Sony seems to do better low-light with 42 megapixels. I want more for greater detail and cropping flexibility.
5. IBIS is amazing. Being able to shoot long exposure without needing extra support, and combining lens stability with yaw correction in-body (which the lens cannot do) is a game-changer for me.

I guess what I'm saying is your use case isn't everyone's use case. If Leica fits yours better, like the other person said, why not shoot with a Leica?

2 months ago
cdembrey

@ksharp, my main camera is a Canon Elan 7n (film). I'm interested in getting a new Canon EOS-R to replace my Canon 40D that I bought new in 2007. Maybe I'll buy a used Leica M (typ 240) instead.

2 months ago
cdembrey

@ksharp I've been cropping in-camera for over 50 years. All I've shot in the past has been advertising and editorial, and 10-12 megapixels is enough for that. The US Army taught me to hit a target at 300 yards, using a rifle that DID NOT have IBIS. It's easy to turn your body into a tripod by leaning into a wall, tree or parking meter—this technique works with either a rifle or camera.

BTW I have a Canon Angle Finder C that I bought new for use on my Canon 20D and Canon Elan 7n https://www.amazon.com/Canon-Angle-Finder-EOS-Cameras/dp/B00004WCEY I've also got down on the ground to get the shot.

2 months ago
ksharp

I do 5+ second exposures with IBIS and blow that up to something that's 6 meters wide, and they get hung on walls, where viewers can get super-close. You're right that I don't quite need 42 megapixels for this, but it really helps being able to crop post-facto and still have sufficient pixels. Even with IS, I still have a relatively high reject rate, and yes, I know how to lean and hold still, and use impromptu supports. But they're still insufficient if you're shooting, for example, firework stars from tops of mountains where you have to climb, and each ounce is a factor.

Like I said, your use cases aren't mine.

1 month ago
petestone

I would add to the list....provide a way to have rear screen review only, so that there's no interruption of continuous view through the viewfinder, but still have instant review on the rear screen. Right now the only way to do that I believe is to push the review button every time you want to review the last shot image, then push it again to go back to live view. It needs to work like a DSLR in terms of image review.

2 months ago
borax
borax

Put a Sony sensor in it, with IBIS...

2 months ago
armandino

but you will lose the dual pixel af, which indeed very good. IBIS would be definitely needed though

2 months ago
borax
borax

So Canon couldn't make a 45 Mpixel sensor with real good DR, and DPAF ? I think they can...

2 months ago
armandino

I really think that the EOS R deficiencies do not lay in the sensor. I am the first to criticize the shortcomings of this camera at its price point, however in my opinion the sensor is not one of them.

2 months ago
TW14

A faster processor is needed for AF and video.

2 months ago
pentaust

Pentax had IBIS on all their DSLR for about 20 years, it was considered NO-GOOD by Canon and Nikon users. Now, Canon makes an EOS R camera without IBIS and folks ask for IBIS because Sony made it. Wow. Customer psycho at work, amazing. I can't believe how we customers can be so silly.

2 months ago*
armandino

@pentaust
it is about FF, Pentax made a FF when Sony already had IBIS on FF.

2 months ago
entoman

armandido - Dual pixel AF only has value when shooting in live view / video. Stills photographers wouldn't miss it.

IBIS would be great as it would enable unstabilised (cheaper) Canon lenses to be used - and that is precisely why Canon will NOT introduce IBIS, they'd much rather sell the considerably more expensive IS versions.....

2 months ago*
ksharp

How does one do yaw correction without IBIS? We can have IBIS and lens correction working together to get the best of both worlds. Canon must know this, but hasn't released the results of their R&D.

2 months ago
whumber
whumber

@pentaust If by 20 years you mean 11, ok. However, until Pentax introduced their version of 5-axis stabilization in the K-1 their IBIS was significantly inferior to the OIS in CaNikon bodies. IBIS in DSLRs also misses out on benefits like stabilizing the AF system and the viewfinder image.

2 months ago*
maurobbianc

Yeah, with striping...

2 months ago
PostConsumerWat

yes, discount the camera so I will buy... everybody agree

2 months ago
cn_a75

After a short 30min test a i have to say the top LCD is useless and it seems very cheap. The grip is ok but need it to manage the buttons and the AF touching with other hand. I couldn't find how to move the AF points using the four-way controller, for me it wasn't moving at all.

I was thinking switching from SL2 but i stay and i'm very happy. Of course the EOS-R having the 5Dsensor , much better in low light and the quality of photos in general.

Check:
Canon EOS R users complain of fragile top screen and lack of 60p with EF-S lenses!
October 22, 2018

2 months ago
davev8
davev8

Well we have had 5 ways the 7Z can be improved and now the R ,,,look forwards to 5 ways to improve the A7iii

2 months ago
RubberDials

It's difficult to improve the A7III, with current technology.

You could give it a higher res viewfinder panel and rear screen, but these deficiencies are really related to price point. If the camera sold for more money it would have those.

2 months ago*
cbphoto123

Rubberdials:

"It's difficult to improve the A7III, with current technology."

You then go on to explain that "current technology" is actually available, but would drive the cost up.

This is true for Sony, Canon..any brand. The more you "add"..the higher the costs. Question is, at any given price point ($2000 in this case).. what is a particular buyer willing to forgo and what not.

If one added "higher res viewfinder panel and rear screen" to the A7III.. the price would go up... in addition better ergonomics and weather sealing/resitance.. would go up some more. My guess the A7III would be heading into $3000 territory.

Much the same could be said of the Canon Eos R. It has a very nice viewfinder, rear screen and ergonomics.. but certainly could be improved with dual card slots, even more weather sealing etc.. and would also cost more.

For my needs, both the Canon Eos R and Sony come up short. But very much looking forward to Canon's next "pro" Eos R camera.

2 months ago*
The Fat Fish
The Fat Fish

I agree with RubberDials. There's not a lot that can be improved at a $2000 price point. Considering the EOS R's lacklustre specs and even higher price ($2349) there's quite a bit that be improved.

I'd start with two features that brings it's specs closer to it's peers the A7III and Z6. IBIS and Full Frame 4K.

2 months ago
cbphoto123

@The Fat Fish... seemingly you missed my point. IBIS, for myself is of very little real value. Certainly full frame 4k (since I don't shoot video) is also of no interest.
Both of those features to someone like yourself seemingly are.
Why would I want to pay for something I don't need, at the expense of something I do?

2 months ago*
The Fat Fish
The Fat Fish

@cbphoto123 with the EOS R you are paying a premium for no reason, why not pay that premium for more features even if you don't use them?

2 months ago
cbphoto123

As mentioned above: "For my needs, both the Canon Eos R and Sony come up short." That being said, I prefer the ergonomics and the EVF of the Canon over the Sony. The Canon Eos R also has other features that are of greater value to me, than what Sony would offer at the same price point.
The number of "features" is not more "valuable" than having the ones... you actually want.

2 months ago*
maurobbianc

One is fix the striping effect

2 months ago
dpjoe1

The EOS R has one feature that can only be topped by a D850 with a Zeiss Otus 55mm F1.4 @ almost double the price. And that is the RF 50mm F1.2. And this lens has auto focus! It is optically equal to the Otus, but the R’s sensor is not equal to the D850’s.

A second option could be the Otus on an a7R3 with adapter.

Neither of these (options) will have the shooting, handling, and fluidity of the R with its native RF lenses.

That makes the R’s body only a passing accessory for building our new lens arsenals while exuding in “performance from another dimension” waiting for a better lens holder to arrive!

2 months ago*
Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener

Or you could use the Siigma Photo 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM |A and the EF > RF ADAPTER to get autofocus and OTUS and RF 50mm f/1.2L level performance.

Or

2 months ago
Marc Bergman

Can you provide a link to this test of the Canon R 50mm f/1.2 and the Zeiss Otus? I would love to see it.

2 months ago
WickedMaPhoto

"R’s sensor is not equal to the D850’s" Potato Potattto IMO, we're at a point where the sensor is not remotely a limitation in practical, real world use. 5DIV sensor leaves nothing wanting and I shoot super high ISO's all the time at wedding ceremonies etc. Objectively, the D850 sensor is likely "better" but we're long past where this is a critical metric.

2 months ago
Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener

@WickedMaPhoto
“IMO, we're at a point where the sensor is not remotely a limitation in practical, real world use.”

Speak for yourself! I regularly use and appreciate all 45mp of the D850 and all 50mp of the Canon 5DS.

“(The) 5DIV sensor leaves nothing wanting and I shoot super high ISO's all the time at wedding ceremonies etc.”

Oh absolutely, same with the EOS R.

“Objectively, the D850 sensor is likely "better" but we're long past where this is a critical metric.”

Objectively, you are right that the D850 sensor and Exspeed processor image pipeline at or near base ISO for the camera (ISO 64 > 400) has not only greater resolution but also a larger dynamic range. But for high ISO work the EOS R is really good. ISO 10,000 performance on the EOS R is slightly better that what any camera was producing 10 years ago at ISO 400.

2 months ago
dpjoe1

@ Marc Bergman: goto diglloyd.com. Loyd is probably the pickiest reviewer out there. Also one of the most respected.

2 months ago*
armandino

@dpjoe1
I prefer a lens that it very close optically, but far cheaper and smaller, ideal for a compact shooting combo with a small body:
The Zeiss 55/1.8*.
I much rather have such pragmatic lens than an exotic, and heavy lens. I bet unless you scrutinize the images side by side you are hard pressed to notice any difference. Note that the Zeiss takes advantage of an IBIS sensor. Also, by DXO, the Otus scores 50 vs the Zeiss 48, very marginal difference. The Otus has a T stop of 1.7 vs Zeiss 55 T stop of 1.8, so generally speaking there is no speed advantage, actually disadvantage with static subjects.

2 months ago*
dpjoe1

@armandino
All very worththy points to consider! Thanks for chiming in.

2 months ago
Shutterbug1947

The first time I picked the EOS R up I hated it. It did not look, feel or operate like a Canon. Maybe Canon will correct that when the upper end model comes out at around 50 mp's, which is only a guess. But I am not buying this one.

2 months ago
Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener

You should give it another try then.

2 months ago
3dit0r

You got through a whole ‘how the EOS R could be improved’ article without even mentioning it’s basically using a sensor and video spec which were already behind the state of the art when they made their debut on the 5D4 in 2016?

2 months ago
henrikbengtsson

Read again. The purpose of the article was to identify potential future FW fixes and updates since Canon has made a statement about this. I am no engineer but I think I have read somewhere that it is pretty hard to download a new sensor.

2 months ago
Leitz

The camera sucks for the price, but Canon has the best "COLOR SCIENCE" :) https://youtu.be/EMfCDujQywY

2 months ago
jay-A

if it was only about the price...

2 months ago
Mariano Pacifico

Smartphones have 4k video capture while dFF & dSLRs struggle to deliver 4k.

DIE cameras ... die !!! Long live smartphones !!!

2 months ago
maurobbianc

No, just remove video from photography

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

All serious mirrorless cameras should have a *multi-aspect ratio sensor*, so we're capturing more of what the glass sees. There is no reason to still be stuck in 3:2. I'm very disappointed that Canon didn't do this right away, now that the restrictive, 3:2 mirror box is gone, and they make their own sensors, so they could easily jump out of the 3:2 box that Sony has us stuck in, unnecessarily.

Multi-aspect that included 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 in their native field of view, using the entire image circle is only 13% larger, but gives enormous artistic and practical benefits.

2 months ago
T3

This is a solution looking for a problem. Is it really that hard to just crop the image in post? After all, we are no longer in the days of using 6, 8, or 10mp sensors anymore. Canon's first FF body, the "high rez" 1Ds, only had 11mp.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

T3, cropping 4:3 or 16:9 from 3:2, instead of the image circle loses massive field of view, especially for 4:3.

Forcing us to crop from 3:2 is like having tunnel vision.

Multi-aspect, on the other hand, opens the field of view to use the entire lens circle.

3:2-only makes no sense now that the mirror box is gone.

The main problem seems to be a lack of understanding in how multi-aspect works.

The other main problem seems to be that Sony won't make any oversized sensors for any format, and many manufacturers want Sony sensors in their cameras.

Canon makes their own sensors, so they should break out of the restrictive, 3:2 box, providing a great service to the photographic community.

2 months ago
Eric Hensel
Eric Hensel

Your post doesn't make sense -how do you "use the entire lens circle" when the sensor is rectangular? Are you saying it should be circular?

2 months ago*
Jeff Fenske

Eric, what I meant is that in a multi-aspect ratio sensor, 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 all fit into the entire image circle, instead of 4:3 and 16:9 having to be cropped from the 3:2 rectangle we're only given now.

A circular sensor that captured everything the lens sees would be the ultimate. An oversized square would be next best. But the oversized 3:2 sensor, which 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 all fit in is only 13% larger than a standard 3:2 sensor, so it's a practical, cost effective place to start from.

2 months ago
Eric Hensel
Eric Hensel

"in a multi-aspect ratio sensor, 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 all fit into the entire image circle,".
A physical impossibility. Either way pixels are thrown away. A circular sensor is only an advantage if you want circular, or square images.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

Eric, the image linked below shows how an *OVERSIZED* SQUARE sensor would work. *All aspect ratios* imaginable (up to 16:9 in length) would *fit into* this particular image circle with corners touching the circle — either horizontally or vertically.

The same would be true if the sensor would be ROUND, but would give additional advantages. If the image was shot cockeyed, no pixels are lost when it's straightened. Round images would rock, and the entire fisheye image that only the lens now sees could be captured.

An OVERSIZED 3:2 sensor is more cost effective than the above, so it's what I would consider what the bare minimum should be in all serious mirrorless cameras now. 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 all have full native field of view and max pixels.

Square sensors for mirrorfree cameras (by Zoltán Biró).
https://www.43rumors.com/square-sensors-for-mirrorfree-cameras-by-zoltan-biro

2 months ago*
Eric Hensel
Eric Hensel

No one wants circular photos --we live in a rectangular world, love it or hate it. Both of those sensors are too wasteful of sensor real-estate --the thing you claim they eliminate. Perhaps when the cost of construction comes down by several orders of magnitude someone will build this. I believe digital photography will be wildly different by then.

2 months ago*
T3

@Jeff Fenske - "Eric, the image linked below shows how an *OVERSIZED* SQUARE sensor would work."

It would also mean an *OVERSIZED* price. As you increase the size of a sensor, it gets more expensive. Large sensors with large surface area (more prone to defects, which greatly lowers yield) get very expensive. Anything that reduces yield (including making *OVERSIZED* square sensors) increases cost. It looks like your *OVERSIZED* sensor is double the size of a 35mm 3:2 sensor, which means it would easily be double the cost, at least! It would be easily more than double the price since the larger surface area would mean a higher defect rate. So from an economic standpoint, this is just not going to happen.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

@T3, a 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 multi-aspect ratio sensor that I believe should be on this camera is only 13% larger than a standard 3:2 sensor. The cost would not be that much more. And the cost of producing sensors has gone down.

Consider, how expensive is all of our glass? Why are we only allowed to use only the 3:2 area now that the 3:2 mirror box is gone.

Canon should put multi-aspect ratio sensors in all of their serious mirrorless cameras. And then they should market the tremendous advantages, which Panasonic barely did.

2 months ago
T3

@Jeff Fenske - "sensor that I believe should be on this camera is only 13% larger than a standard 3:2 sensor."

The problem is that a 13% increase in size does not equate to a 13% increase in cost. Size and cost of image sensors is not a linear relationship. It's most likely closer to an exponential increase on cost. But even if it were *only* 13% more costly, that's still a considerable increase in cost. Plus, I think you're severely underestimating the additional cost of your square sensors, especially if they are "oversized". The cost to benefit ratio just isn't there.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

@T3, I'm not claiming it's only 13% more. The number of people who would buy it because it's multi-aspect would pay for the increase. I, for one, will stick with Canon SLRs for now. If this were multi-aspect I'd buy it.

Portrait photographers usually prefer 4:3. They wouldn't have to always crop from 3:2 this way. For many people, 4:3 is often preferred to 3:2, and 16:9 is often enough, especially for those who do video.

4:3 with the super wide-angle lenses would be a dream come true, especially for night sky, architecture, etc..

I linked to a square sensor, because that was the diagram I had. Many people don't seem to be able to understand how a multi-aspect ratio sensor works unless they see a diagram.

A square sensor would be much nicer (and a round one even better someday), and would be nice if someone did one soon, but the lower cost, oversized 3:2 sensor is much more cost effective now.

If Canon would build a standard multi-aspect and would market it well, It could soar!

2 months ago
Spectro

I want a camera with 2 lenses and 2 sensors at 43mm focal and next to each other like the human eyes. Get the same field of vision. Things be more 3d.

Ok I got that out of the way. Sensor are cut from wafer like how cpu and other chip are cut from silicon wafer. The more you can cut from one, the more sensor you can sell. Wafer cost the same, put the smaller one you can cut more out of and tad less waste. Bigger equal lesser quantity. The other aspect is the the majority lenses are circular, to waste the least amount of light, the sensor could be more square or circular. The more rectangular, the lights just don't get capture, why just cropping in post is the simplest solution like other mentioned here.

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/53826/why-does-increasing-sensor-size-necessarily-lead-to-lower-silicon-wafer-utilizat

2 months ago*
Jeff Fenske

Below are links to two diagrams showing how a standard, multi-aspect ratio sensor works. It's only 13% larger than a regular 3:2 sensor, but adds a great deal of versatility.

There is clearly a lot of misunderstanding about what a standard multi-aspect ratio sensor is. The manufacturers have dropped the subject, as have most camera reviewers, who don't seem to understand its importance. It's also rarely mentioned in the forums these days.

In DPR's GH1 review https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgh1, scroll down about halfway to Multi-Aspect Ratio Sensor diagram, which also has an animation below it.

The corners of the sensor extend beyond the image circle, so 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 all fit within the image circle.

Here is a review of the GH5 https://suggestionofmotion.com/blog/nab-2015-panasonic-gh5. Scroll down about halfway to the section entitled "THE RETURN OF THE MULTI-ASPECT SENSOR, which has an excellent diagram.

Canon should use this standard multi-aspect design.

2 months ago
nnowak

NOT POSSIBLE! Many lenses, including some of the new RF lenses, use rectangular baffles inside the lens and at the rear. These rectangular baffles are there to reduce internal reflections, flare, and ghosting. Redesigning lenses without baffles solely to accommodate a multi aspect sensor would come at the expense of overall image quality.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

nnowak, Canon SLR lenses do not have rectangular baffles, nor do any micro-four-thirds lenses that I've seen. Panasonic has already proven that multi-aspect works in the M43 system, so lenses without rectangular baffles should work fine in full frame too.

Do you, or does anyone have a link to a photo that shows the back of the new RF lenses? Sony hamstrung multi-aspect with their mount, putting electronic contacts below their rectangular rear baffle, unlike how M43 lenses are designed, which could even accommodate a round sensor.

If Canon also did this, this is very sad for the future of Canon's mirrorless. We should be able to shoot all of our Canon SLR glass in multi-aspect with an adaptor also.

Does anyone know how Nikon and Panasonic did it? I haven't seen the back of their lenses either. I've heard that Panasonic used an already existing Leica mount.

2 months ago
Spectro

most nikon f lenses don't have it, maybe a few. Not sure about the Z (will get one in the mail soon). But I don't care about multiple aspect ratio. I crop in post production anyways. I don't want pre cropping.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

Spectro, multi-aspect allows 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 to be shot in the native aspect ratio with full field of view and full megapixels, getting the most out of our expensive glass — instead of having to crop 4:3 and 16:9 from 3:2, which loses a lot of coverage.

3:2 is often not the best ratio.

Why shoot 4:3 and 16:9 in tunnel vision, narrowing our field of view, now that the limiting SLR 3:2 mirror box is gone.

This is ridiculous to still be stuck in the 3:2 box!

2 months ago
Spectro

probably because I have a FF sensor camera and my lenses are for that. I don't have a m4/3 camera anymore (panny gm1 for a short time). My only medium format is a film camera. I can't make my own sensor and camera so I live by what I can buy comfortably.

what the different if you crop in-camera or in post, same thing, some megapixel aren't being used. The 16:9 is tossing megapixel on your m43 sensor.

I don't have anything to add to this topic anymore.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

Spectro, if you still don't understand the difference between cropping from 3:2 in post verses 4:3 and 16:9 being able to achieve FULL FIELD OF VIEW and max megapixels by their edges touching the image circle, then you haven't carefully enough read what I wrote above and linked to.

2 months ago
Spectro

I read about that multi aspect ratio long time ago when panny lx100 or something came out. It is an over size sensor that will never use all of the megapixel regardless of ratio. It is pre-cropping which mega pixel to use.

You want a square or close to a square sensor on a full frame size. Manufactures don't want to cut oversize sensor and not use those pixels especially for larger sensor. Yes 3:2 is an old standard from film that translate into 2x3 and 4x6 prints that is industrial standard. Most monitor are widescreen. IG square image is wasting the monitor area with blank edge. Human have a field of vision that is wider more rectilinear then square. Square is odd, watching a square film verse a widescreen. Yes it makes sense to have a square sensor to get the most out of the lenses without the talk of a rectangular baffle as one point. 3:2 is a better balance between wide angle which is more natural for the eye and not wasting too much light the sensor capture.

2 months ago
Jeff Fenske

Spectro, I'm saying that all serious mirrorless cameras should have a *regular* multi-aspect ratio sensor that is only 13% larger, and only the tiny corners of it aren't used. I said this in my opening comment:

"Multi-aspect that include[s] 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 in their native field of view, using the entire image circle is only 13% larger, but gives enormous artistic and practical benefits."

4:3 is the standard for portraiture, and is also a standard print size, more common than 3:2. Cropping 4:3 from these 3:2-only cameras lose almost 20% of the field of view and megapixels.

Many landscape and cityscape images look better in 4:3, sports images, you name it.

Night sky images shot overhead are almost always better in 4:3, but most that we see are in 3:2, because that's all Sony, Nikon and Canon give us.

We have all of this expensive glass to use, but only capture the 3:2 area.

Ridiculous and archaic!

2 months ago
aerorail

why would they want to improve it?.........you want improvements you buy a more expensive canon. thats why they make more than 1 model.

im impressed they think of ways to dumb it down

lemme know when they make a camera that can access the internet and make phone calls

please click on the LIKE button below

2 months ago*
Jaselero

Unbelievable !!! selftimer does not admit more than one photo per shot when even the EOS 200D allows the choice from 1 to 10. And there is no timer (intervalometer)

2 months ago
Terrano

Do any of the moaners here actually own this camera or have even used it?

2 months ago
voronspb

Is there a secret IBIS system which is available only to actual owner, who signed the warranty documents? :)

2 months ago
The Fat Fish
The Fat Fish

Yes, I have used it. By using it I found more things I didn't like. I knew the 4K crop, lack of IBIS, single SD card, slow FPS in AF-C would not be ideal but it was only when I had a hands on I realised how much of a step back the ergonomics were. The touch bar is infuriating and the lack of a proper mode dial was a step back.

That said, I did like the flip LCD, few extra megapixels in it's class and the EVF was better than I expected. I think the EOS R would be a great $1600 camera.

2 months ago*
soundimageplusblog

I just wonder what any of this has to do with creating pictures? I have the EOS R and use it in the simplest way possible. When I downloaded the pdf manual and saw it was 644 pages long, I burst out laughing and then deleted it. Somehow I've made my living from photography for over 20 years without wading through this nonsense. Life is literally too short to even read something like that, let alone memorise it. Compose, Focus, Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO - Photography CAN be simple, though not here it seems.

2 months ago
voronspb

In the past the camera was just a simple interface between photographer, film (sensor) and optics. But in 2018 the camera is as important for making good photos as the lens.

Therefore, in 2018 studying the camera is non less important than studying the photography technique. Otherwise, it's like cutting the firewood with gas chainsaw without learning how to start the engine.

2 months ago
Mike Sandman
Mike Sandman

Even if you just want to adjust focus and set aperture, shutter speed and ISO, The R and other current cameras offer some useful options. Sure, you can just use the default ways to make those settings, but there are some very useful options you'd learn about if you read just the first part of the manual (not all 644 pages).

2 months ago
Photomonkey

Some of the functionality included in the latest cameras does make for better images. IBIS (not here), self cleaning sensors, AF and other features certainly help. However, the bulk of the features DPR is critiquing revolve around settings, customization and the ease of switching settings. This presumes we are endlessly fiddling with our settings. If you are a hobbyist that twiddles dials all day I guess this matters, but most focus on the subject at hand and use the machine in a straightforward manner.

2 months ago
MrBrightSide
MrBrightSide

You probably have attained a level of talent that would allow you to make good pictures with a shoebox, a pinhole, and a sheet of film, so you are not really the target of the website.

2 months ago
nnowak

If you are using the R in "the simplest way possible", why did you even need the R? Any full frame camera from any manufacturer from the last few years should be more than sufficient for you, and more affordable.

2 months ago
MrBrightSide
MrBrightSide

Although I will say that some camera functions hidden deep within menus have allowed me to work faster; for instance I live in an area with screamingly bright sun in the summer and I’ve been able to tame contrast ratios with the in-camera HDR function.

2 months ago
pentaust

If you want a minimalist manual, get a Pentax. Or if you want a minimalist camera get a Leica M. Canon's manual is big, but it is not mandatory to read it all, however, when someone wants to do something very specific, it's nice to have a manual as backup.

2 months ago
zxaar

Handled R and speaking for me only it felt heavy enough to think that there is no point in getting it over a dslr.

2 months ago
NewsRadioFan

Forget IBIS, Full Frame 4k, Proper Eye AF, Dual Card Slots, Thumbstick, and Better Weather Sealing? Nah ... the number one feature missing from the EOS R is an illuminated grid AF assist.

2 months ago
VenusFivePhotoStudio

I can get used not having a joystick, but I'd like to see the ISO button back and the big front wheel!!!! I need that wheel, as a pro shooter is the fastest way to look at pictures.

Also IBIS would be a nice improvement :)

2 months ago
photoMEETING

One more way to improve the EOS R:

Add a flip mirror and an OVF.

2 months ago*
PHOTOJOE55

That's Brilliant!

2 months ago
T3

And have it take film! And give it a manual film advance lever!

2 months ago
photoMEETING

@T3:

Sounds radical to me.

2 months ago
MrBrightSide
MrBrightSide

With the gears and whatnot a film advance lever is unnecessary complication. A winding knob will do just fine.

2 months ago
bluevellet

Another way to improve the EOS R: Develop and release more mouth-watering lenses so their attractiveness override whatever shortfalls the camera body has.

2 months ago
T3

"release more mouth-watering lenses"

Maybe mouthwatering, but also wallet-raping. Do people not look at prices anymore? $3,000 for a 3.2lb 28-70 lens? $2,300 for a 2.1lb 50mm lens? Yes, these lenses are fast, but they are also very heavy, very expensive, and those fast apertures aren't so useful if you stop down. When people finally sober up and consider the cost and weight of these lenses, I don't think they are going to seem as attractive as some people are making them out to be.

2 months ago
voronspb

Indeed these lenses are attractive for youtubers and reviewers who can play with them for free (plane ticket to Hawaii and accommodation included). Most other people do forget that they aren't youtubers.

2 months ago
3dit0r

@T3 - totally agree. Lenses so big and heavy there is very little benefit to mirrorless. Don’t start me on the cost.

2 months ago
T3

@3dit0r - There is *plenty* of benefit to mirrorless other than size. Real-time exposure preview, live histogram in the viewfinder, focus peaking and focus magnification, face AF, eye AF, silent electronic shutter, no mirror slap, high frame rates at much lower cost, focus frame focus point coverage, etc. Especially with FF DSLRs, the focus point coverage is quite pathetic. With FF mirrorless, you can have focus points that goes nearly edge to edge in the viewfinder, with face AF too.

2 months ago
maurobbianc

Mouth-watering in terms of size also. Size is one of the main reasons to go mirrorless

2 months ago
Vallkar
Vallkar

Too many negative comments here. What I prefer (as features or ergonomics) someone will not like, what others like, I may not like. As the saying goes "if you can't dance, you will blame the floor". The only option for some is to have a tailor made camera (if they can afford one).

2 months ago
Cerdo

I wonder if there are any photographers posting here at all. My workplace is now inundated with IT-kids, most of them with a mental age about 10. Btw, I bought an EOS R. A fantastic camera. It’s a joy to use. Haven’t had so much fun with a new camera since I bought my first Canon F-1 in 1979. Oh, maybe I should add the T90 in 1986.

2 months ago
Holografix

You sound like that old man in “The Shawshank Redemption”, you’re institutionalised. You can’t see past the bars of your Canon cell.
Im sure the EOS R is a great camera, in isolation if your ignore the rest of the market.
Relative to the Sony and Nikon it performs worse and it’s overpriced. Thanks for buying it, it’s good to have 3 competitors in the market if it wasn’t for people like you, too afraid to changed and sentimental with old age, Canon wouldn’t sell much.

2 months ago
Kevin DiOssi

The DPReview comments section is always filled with the opinions of people who usually have no experience with anything they're commenting on. A poisonous culture has been draped Canon as a result of extremely biased journalism from non professional photographers for several years now on many sites and YouTube. It has made Canon passé in the internet world.

It's all in an effort to sell more cameras. It comes down to the fact that year-to-year, there haven't been many differences between cameras to justify upgrading. So people pushed Sony. Sony hasn't been ready for professional primetime until last year (A9/A7R3/A73, the A7S2 being the exception), in my personal opinion and experience. So now the arrogance is incredibly bad. Not to give Canon a pass at all...they have really been slow to adapt to changes in the market. But the EOS R is a fantastic camera for both stills and video. It just isn't the do-it-all camera that the Sony A7III is.

2 months ago
diness

So, if someone has needs that a certain camera doesn't meet, then they aren't a real photographer? Interesting.

2 months ago
MILC man

yes, it'll build character, we should all suffer with weak sauce canon gear, that has lousy d.r., huge video crop, no ibis, unstabilized lenses, a dysfunctional mf bar, etc... NOT

I can't believe the fanboy drivel out here, trying to support lousy gear just because it's made by canon.

even Nikon knows milc better than canon does, and they had the common sense to make usable lenses, instead of halo effect glass that nobody can afford, that's too heavy to carry around.

2 months ago*
kodachromeguy

Photographers? Where, here, this crowd? The land of equivalence, film hatred, Leica jealousy, megapixel envy, monochrome denial, and dual card slot insecurity? OK, I can wait for some.

2 months ago
zxaar

This is a photography site so it is obvious that people who are interested in furniture visit here frequently. Real photographs don't visit photography gear sites at all.

2 months ago
Terrano

Just got mine and really enjoying it feels great, people are so spoiled today. My first digital Camera needed to do 4 captures just to create one image. Then the Nikon D1X only 5.6 Megapixels( $4000). Then the Kodak Canon Camera i think only about 10 megapixels( $3500) Then the Leaf Aptus Digital back 30 megapixels ($6000) only really good for shooting in the studio. Then the Canon 5DMK2(stolen) Then the Canon 6D We are so spoiled today.

2 months ago*
aerorail

how does a photograph visit a gear site?

2 months ago
WJaekel

@KevinDiOssi: Exactly ! I just returned from an expedition to the emperor penguins with 100 photogs. About 65-70% were shooting Canon for stills and video with roughly 30-35 % Nikon and very few having Sony and other brands. On all my pro trips worldwide Canon isn't the worst choice of photogs at all. That's just a fairytale the continuing pushing of Sony and Nikon on this site and elsewhere wants you to believe in. Still no review of the R here vs half a dozen articles on the Nikons, - just a preview mainly focussing on negative points. I tested both the Z7 and R. The Z7 may be more advanced, so surely there's room for improvements for the R but it was not claimed to be the manufacturer's high end MLC. Nevertheless, Canon has gained around 22% of the FF MLC market share in Japan after the release of the R (with Nikon 10,4% , btw)
https://petapixel.com/2018/11/08/canon-already-has-22-of-full-frame-mirrorless-sales-in-japan/

The camera isn't the poor choice they claim here

2 months ago
Holografix

@WJaekel “Keep in mind, however, that these numbers are skewed by the fact that Canon and Nikon just launched their full-frame mirrorless cameras and are enjoying the early surge in sales, while Sony has been in the game since its a7, a7R, and a7S in 2013 and 2014.” - from your article.

How can you people be so brainwashed? Canon’s new camera has worse specs and is MORE EXPENSIVE than the better Sony and Nikon!!! How can you keep defending it?!?

If Nikon or Canon released a camera that kicked Sony’s ass for a similar price tomorrow I’d dump my Sony and buy that immediately!

Your choice of camera brand is NOT who you are. You should be able to take great photos with any good camera!

2 months ago
kadarpik

EOS R is an amateur camera, amateurs never adjust setting, they do it may be one per session or once per trip. 90% they use auto. Enthusiasts have mostly time also. Worst thins in Sony and also EOS-R as I red now, is menus and no button blind interface shortcuts. It gets eyes tired and moments missed if you need to focus into camera 's screen in between and it is 1000x slower than pressing button like playing piano. Manufacturers do it deliberately or just project team contain different persons from different communities. Worst experience is smartphone camera, dynamical buttons and visual interface. It is good add on to a camera but really spoils all experience of shooting.

2 months ago
mammagamma

aha, so I do something I never do, thanks for telling me...

2 months ago
Terrano

No way an Amateur camera :-)

2 months ago
armandino

camera for amateurs with big wallets

2 months ago
mpb002

The EIS R is canon’s first FF csmera. Like every first camera in a new seeies,there are alays things that people like and dont like.

It appears that this csmera really does not need anything, except Good photographers to use it, which some people using Sony cameres may not be, since they tend to complain more over what a camera lacks than actuslly does...take photographs.

2 months ago
T3

That sounds like a great marketing strategy: make a camera that is crippled, or lacks feature, or has lower specs, give it a higher price, then say that this camera "really does not need anything, except good photographers to use it." If people like you controlled the camera industry, we'd all still be using manual focus, manual exposure cameras, lol. Thankfully, people like you *don't* control the camera industry. Instead, we have companies continually pushing camera technology, camera features, and camera capabilities forward.

I understand that there are certain cameras that cater to a particular kind of user, such as Leica M rangefinder cameras. These cameras cater to a particular niche. But I don't think the EOS R is meant to be a niche camera selling to a niche market. If so, it will likely have niche sales.

2 months ago
pentaust

Really? Can you explain?

2 months ago
Francis Sawyer

"the Register / Recall Shooting Function"

What is that supposed to mean?

Do you mean a way to save camera setups (a complete collection of settings)?

There's already a name for that: "camera setup."

2 months ago
voronspb

In Canon DSLRs you could assign DOF Preview button for instant switching the focus drive mode while you hold this button.

Register / Recall Shooting Function is basically the same, but here the button press allows instant applying up to a dozen of settings, valid only while you hold this button. And the camera can start seeking focus in this moment, buying some time for you.

Most users utilize this feature for "emergency response" button: no matter what were you shooting and in which mode, you can instantly recall the necessary settings for shooting unexpected live action. On Sony A7III up to 3 different setting sets may be assigned to different buttons.

My settings are as follows: Tv (S) mode, 1/250s, cont. shooting 5 fps, AF-С (servo), ISO Auto, lock-on AF, start AF. Recalled by holding the joystick.

2 months ago
Sutlore

I am looking forward to see Five ways to improve for both Sony A7 and A9 later :)

My opiniens for those are:
- better grip
- better menu operations
- 2 UHS-II card slots with (much) faster buffer clearance
- usable AF in low light (I expected -5EV with Z55/1.8) and more adjustable options for AF-C
- better high iso performance on sensor. I need at least 2-3x cleaner images at ISO12800.

2 months ago
Francis Sawyer

How about recording something other than crappy 8-bit video, and providing raw output through the HDMI?

2 months ago
KonstantinosK
KonstantinosK

Custom buttons settings not enough for you? You should plea Canon to offer a big amount of blank switches and dials with no initial assignment to them, so that the user could set their functions as they like. How about that?

2 months ago
cscanlon

IMO, it's unforgivable for any digital camera at all, from the very first DSLR produced in history to the most recent, to lack at least some form of intervalometer. The idea that making a digital chip _count_ is a difficult, expensive, or otherwise impractical feature in a camera at any price point is just ridiculous. Ok, maybe a "disposable" point and shoot where every user interface element added doubles the production cost, but anything else has no excuse. A camera of this caliber that can't be told to take repeated photos without some kind of dongle BS is just scandalous and shouldn't be tolerated. Again, IMO. :-) I understand they cripple these things to protect upmarket models, but how can they get away with not including an intervalometer? It's like making it not able to focus on Tuesdays and saying "sorry, buy the more expensive camera if you want 7-day-a-week focusing" and then we all need to use magic lantern for "Tuesday focusing". How do they still get away with it in 2018?

2 months ago
Francis Sawyer

Amen. No camera made today should lack this simple feature, which is essentially FREE to implement.

I don't see why DPReview doesn't call this out in every review; after all, they harangued Canon FOR YEARS about a relatively obscure problem where you could open the CF door while stuff was being written to the card.

2 months ago*
Bob Jameson

The problem is because Sony doesn't implement it also. At least the Nikon has it.
Needs more pressure to from other manufacturers to make it more competitive.

2 months ago
dansclic

Totally agree. I was interested in this camera but no second card slot and no intervalometer and the expensive and too big lenses give no chance for’me To buy this stuff. Again canon makes a camera with not enough or too much that sits in between ....

2 months ago
borax
borax

How to improve Canon R camera ?
Using a 45 Mpixel without AAfilter, with a 14 dB dynamic range.
Introducing IBIS on Canon camera
Improving autonomy
Making cropless 4K video recording available
Replacing the M.Fn bar by a scroll wheel.
Intervalometer
etc...

2 months ago
EDWARD ARTISTE

", the spookily accurate Pupil Detection option is only available in Single AF. "

Wait...WHAAAAATTTT??? Where did this come from?

Not a hint of this function in any writeup so far, and it's mentioned here as a passing note?

2 months ago
Thematic

Who cares if it can't track.

Eyes are so small when a head shot or shoulder up shot or worse full body shot is taken, any small movement of the portrait subject creates an oof eye.

2 months ago
EDWARD ARTISTE

Of course that depends on if the subject is moving.

If not...ILL TAKE IT*

*Seriously, its still better to have any assist then not. It's cray to argue otherwise

2 months ago*
Thematic

There is always a bit of movement with people. It's natural.

Think about a few millimeters of eye movement applied to a full body portrait and you'll understand why the lack of tracking makes it useless.

And yes I have tried the eos r vs nikon Z6 and Sony a7mk3

It's useless and that's why Canon doesn't talk about it.

2 months ago
EDWARD ARTISTE

Well, many of us have done pretty well without it, so the addition of it need not create any complaints.

Useless to you, is not transferable to others. My M1 is ..."useless" to other more snobbish photogs...but its only my most used body with over 40k frames taken

See what I did there :P

If other kit has better implementations, great, but you get what im saying.

2 months ago
Thematic

If you know something Canon doesn't, by all means share.

But dpreview and Canon are correct.

2 months ago
EDWARD ARTISTE

Now that i think about it more...um, that's "useless" logic.

One shot focus does the same thing, does it not?

So, that moots everything you just said....because there's no way you can call single shot useless, no matter how hard u try.

2 months ago
BlueBomberTurbo

@EDWARD ARTISTE

Single shot is good for things that don't move. On both ends. Might have been fine hand held back in the low res days, but now, with very high MP and fast lenses wide open, even a couple mm off will show (as AF fine tune users can attest to). That's why I shoot AF-C for most things, as I hand hold the camera 95% of the time. Hasn't let me down. Ever.

2 months ago
Stu 5

Thematic it is not useless. I have nailed focus on the eye in manual focus using a magnified view on a live view camera on hundreds of headshots in a photo shoot. It just depends on the subject and skills of the photographer. Single AF is perfectly useable. It does not need to track in your example if the photographer knows what they are doing.

2 months ago
PAntunes

Cameras without eye-af aren't useless either, but I'm sure many will love that function on the R. And many will hate it doesn't do it in EYE-AF-C. And as soon as canon has eye-af-c, many will think that's a massive omission and a dealbreaker in any cameras that don't offer it.

2 months ago
T3

@Stu 5 - You have to consider the bigger picture. Back in the early days of Canon EOS, the difference in AF performance between EOS and Nikon F was not humongous. Nikon had "perfectly usable" AF. Nevertheless, a LOT of Nikon users and new users opted for Canon EOS because of the edge in AF performance that EOS offered. This also pertained to Canon offering Image Stabilization, which also gave EOS an edge over Nikon. In both cases, Nikon users made the argument that these things are not needed "if the photographer knows what they are doing." But that argument really didn't work. These differences in technology and performance, however small in significance some people claimed them to be, allowed EOS to go from zero market share to overtaking Nikon in the consumer and pro SLR markets. Consumers really do pay attention to these factors when making purchase decisions. They generally don't say, "Oh, I'm not going to need that if I know what I'm doing." It's better to have than to have not.

2 months ago*
T3

@Stu 5 - As the saying goes, better to have a feature and not need it than to need a feature and not have it.

2 months ago
Mr Marco
Mr Marco

I think it would be nice if you could customize the swipe option of the M.Fn Bar to swipe through the different assignable functions (like ISO, WB, AF,, etc...).
And of course there is still the issue with the missing interval timer....

2 months ago
Dantist

Tried today at local shops exhibition alongside with Z7 and my old A7. The haptic and build of new cameras, and especially of R is superb! The interface is a mess though. Nikon is Nikon, but R is quite confusing. Would have to read the manual:) And that Touch Bar... poorly placed, lagging, and lacking any sort of feedback. Changed iso 4 times in 4 minutes by accident :( And power switch on the left! On milc! What they were thinking of?!? Nikon is way better thought out. Unfortunately, focusing indoors is on par with 1st gen A7 :( Hope Z6 is better there...

2 months ago
Thematic

+1

Tried the nikon extensively at Photo Plus in New York and the af was a disaster as dpreview has written about.

Wiat for the z8 or z9

2 months ago
Dantist

you mean Z6? It's a pity then... still, I'll take a look, and if it's like Z7, will just go for A7III, much cheaper than Canon anyway. AF on Canon seemed ok, btw.

2 months ago
Kevin DiOssi

The Canon interface is a mess? You are one of the first people to ever say this. It's widely considered to have the most organized and easy to navigate menus and interface system of any camera.

Canon DSLRs have placed the power switch on the left side for a very long time on their prosumer cameras. The 5D3, 5DSR, 5D4, 6D, 6D2, 70D, 80D, 7D Mark II, etc...people should really stop making this a talking point of reviews when they say "moved the power switch" when it didn't get moved at all...it's always been there.

2 months ago
Dantist

Kevin, I did not say they moved it :) It might be ok on dslr (even if not optimal imho), but on milc that’s really bad idea. The menus on R are different from their DSLRs, and I think for the worse. With both R and Z being new to me, Nikon was easier to get around. That’s a minor issue though, a matter of getting used to, the real problem is general control layout.

2 months ago
diness

Can’t beleive continuous FPS improvement isn’t on here. That’s the top thing for me personally

2 months ago
Edmond Leung

The trend is...
Professional still cameras = Canon
Professional cine cameras = ARRI
Others are.... too bad!

2 months ago
jkgal

No, the trend is for Canon to continue to suck

2 months ago
Yake

The trend here is Sony fans upvoting comments critical of Canon. Especially comments that say Canon "sucks".

2 months ago
BlueBomberTurbo

Well, it's not exactly easy to find comments complimenting Canon, so there's nothing else to upvote. :p

2 months ago
waldoh

1. Competitive sensor to Nikon/Sony (I suspect 2-5 are a result of 1)
2. 4K with no crop
3. 1080p120
4. Sharper video (Max Yuryev test)
5. DR that is closer to FF than APSC.
6. Competitive FPS with AF/AE
7. Joystick
8. Dual card slots

2 months ago
Anulu

And IBIS, and more dials, and sensor without typical Canon shadowbanding...

2 months ago
sh10453
sh10453

Very good suggestions, DPR Staff.

I haven't purchased this camera, but I continue to read feedback from actual owners (or people who claim to be actual owners), and filter out the fanboyish feedback.
It's reasonable to assume that different departments (or at least different groups) within Canon design the different cameras and menus.
From the feedback I have seen, it sounds like Canon has hired/stolen some Sony menu designers, making the menu either more complicated, more confusing, or simply requiring some considerable time to learn it (even for the Canon faithful).
I own both, Canon cameras and Sony cameras, and I know the difference in the menu structures.
There is no justification for the long learning curve, and the radical departure from your sensible menus, Canon.
I'll continue to wait and see what happens with future firmware updates before I decide on purchasing the R camera.

2 months ago
GabrielZ
GabrielZ

Yes, and replace that touch control thingy on the back with a joystick or something.

2 months ago
MikeStern

Wait??? First thing you guys forgot. Improving the image quality.
Brand new camera of now is still behind A7 models that are 2 years old.
Especially on dynamic range. Which is crystal aspect of image quality of a sensor.

2 months ago
jkgal

Image Quality is the raison d'être for a FF camera. Recycling a class trailing 2 year old sensor in order to save development costs? Unfortunately it's what we've come to expect from Canon.

2 months ago
BlueBomberTurbo

IQ really isn't bad on this sensor. Enough DR for most things, good high ISO, and sharp enough detail. It's not top of its class, but it's worlds better than what Canon used to produce. Now if only they'd move this tech down to their APS-C cameras...

2 months ago
Shiranai
Shiranai

BS. The camera is not behind A7II. Google the DxO numbers of 5D4 (same sensor) and A7II.
The R actually is quite the same like an A7II , just with more resolution, better focussing and far better ergonomics.

2 months ago
Anulu

Yes, but the A7II has the sensor from 2012 (originaly designed for a99mark1)

2 months ago
BlueBomberTurbo

DR might be similar, but the 5D IV should surpass it at high ISO. Even the A6300 does.

2 months ago
maurobbianc

Yess, add the striping effect Sony offers

2 months ago
Arun H

I wonder how many of the folks commenting here actually own a Canon camera or are seriously considering buying one. Unless you are, Canon is very unlikely to care about your opinion!

2 months ago
Marc Bergman

I bought my first Canon in 1972. It was a Canon Ftb. I used it until 1981 when I got the Canon A-1. I continued with Canon until this year. You are right, Canon doesn't care about my opinion.

2 months ago
celestialemissary
celestialemissary

well they should care

2 months ago
borax
borax

Witch opinions do you think Canon should care about most ?
Loyal customers, who already own Canon lenses, and are captive customers ?
Or customers who still doesn't own any Canon material, and could quickly buy both cameras and lenses if convinced to switch ?

2 months ago*
BlueBomberTurbo

Believe it or not, this is THE time Canon should care. Everyone's coming out with FF mirrorless, requiring an entirely new set of gear, so the ball is up in the air for many users. Where it'll land depends on how good your product is, and Canon is far behind in bodies, as usual. On the bright side for Canon, Nikon didn't hit a home run, either, so the urge to jump ship to there isn't as big as it could've been.

2 months ago
stevo23

I like the balanced approach you guys are taking here. Good article.

2 months ago
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