Panasonic looks to reassure G7 owners with rubbed-off serial numbers

As I've said before, this could lead to a situation where if your electronics break within the warranty period and the serial is not recoverable, Panasonic under their own new rules wouldn't have to deal with your case. In fact, since they have said nothing of the role of the firmware S/N, they've already effectively ruled out that it could be used to resolve a case. So they're basically saying, if your electronics break and you have no box, no deal!

Jul 10, 2015permalink

Bob from Plymouth

Perhaps but that really is a worse case scenario and I doubt you'd need many fingers to count the number of owners affected.

Any company with a half decent reputation would deal with this on a case by case basis but they do need to protect themselves, sadly there are dishonest people about.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

Sammy Yousef

Note to self. Avoid Panasonic, box and all.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

JohnEwing

Gee, I didn't know people came with serial numbers. Is this another dastardly NSA plot?

Jul 10, 2015permalink

ThePhilips

They use S/N mostly to track where/how the camera was produced to handle problems of the mass production.

The fact that support demands the S/N - that is just plain laziness. The only thing they really need is the proof of purchase, to know when the warranty starts and ends.

I wonder how EU's consumer laws would look at that. It's not my fault that the S/N rub off - it is Panasonic's, and they should be dealing with it at their own costs, not mine.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

Peiasdf

People do come with serial number. What do you think Social Security numbers are? The number is assigned and you can only get it changed with a court order.

Jul 12, 2015*permalink

Valiant Thor

I just used my Brother P-Touch and made a tiny serial number label and stuck it on the bottom. Not a big deal Crikey!

Jul 10, 2015*permalink

panpen

Oh, my......people freak like they are paying Leica prices. Come on guys! This is a cheap camera to start with. It'll be worth $50 after a couple years of use. Who needs a serial number on a disposable product.
On the other hand, people should just go out, shoot and stop worrying about labels. The only people not worried are the ones in the field using their cameras.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

(unknown member)

I purchased three post 2008 Nikkors FX made in Japan few months ago. I'm surprise that the serial numbers are printed on the boxes but not on the lenses. However, the SN are engraved on my DX lenses, the boxes, and the registration cards.

Looking at my (film) cameras and lenses made before 1980, serial numbers are engraved on the front element bezel on Nikkor and Konica lens and on the aperture ring on Canon.

I am not an advocate of government intervention, but perhaps government should mandate uniform labeling by engraving of SN on lenses similar to the VIN on motor vehicles.

I have registered with the respective manufacturers all my lenses, camera bodies, electronic flash. Have taken pictures and created an inventory stored in my computer and copies on multiple portable drives stores in fireproof box and safety deposit box, incase of insurance claim from theft, fire, & losses.

Recovery of items that has no SN is impossible but I'll not waste my time engraving the SN.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

Panasonic and others may have solved this sticky little issue for us all.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

mais51

My Nikon cameras serial number is printed on a metallic label located out of the way in a recess at the bottom. Similarly recent Nikon lenses have their serial number in a metallic label located in a recess on the bottom of the lens body. Earlier Nikon SLR bodies and lenses have their serial numbers directly engraved on the body.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

breivogel

This has happened on my LX5, and mt lx7 is showing signs of it.

Serial numbers are bad enough, but the labels on the various buttons on several camera bodies (and lenses) also wear off. I have taken to covering them with clear coat nail polish (very carefully). This is disappointing on otherwise expensive and well made equipment (like a D800 or GH4).

In the not so distant past, labels were engraved and filled with colored paint - even on inexpensive products (look at old Nikon manual lenses). At one time, plastic buttons were made by a (more expensive) two-shoot molding process, where the lettering integral to the part. Early computer keyboards were made this way.

Seems like manufacturers are cutting costs in trivial ways. I am sure that with modern technology, making wear resistant labeling is not impossible.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

bart honhoff

I own a LX1, LX2, LX3 with the same problem.
So the problem with Lumix camera's is older than with the G7

Jul 10, 2015permalink

I don't really have a horse in this, but it doesn't seem a fair deal. How could customers have known to keep the box? I think Panasonic should extend warranties on genuine G7s (one would hope they can tell...) to the last rubbable production date + standard warranty period + grace period of six months (as production date and sale date will differ, and normally warranties are valid from the date of sale, not production).

Jul 9, 2015permalink

You are speaking from a limited perspective. Not everyone lives such a settled life as you.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

It has everything to do with it. I recently lost a product box while moving home. So who is responsible for my product warranty now? The removal company? Can I sue them for the value of the camera because they lost the box? I think that would hardly fly in any court in the world. So maybe Panasonic need to connect with real customers and not require retaining the box, which is frankly, stupid. There used to be a time when a box was just a box, not a legal document. And that would be a time I'd prefer to live in.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

mxx

Gosh! I just realized with a shock that I don't have my 1979 Pentax MX's box anymore!

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Yes, but as I've said elsewhere in this discussion, if your electronics are broken, getting the serial number from firmware/exif may not be possible. So this could reduce the warranty cases that Panasonic have to deal with, under their own made-up rules. It would make for an interesting court case imo.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

vroger1

Panasonic should provide a service to engrave the numbers properly. I presume that they will have to do so in the future. VRR

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Peiasdf

They should really do what Lenovo ThinkPad and Apple are doing. Provide warranty service base on unit's internal/external serial number and don't ask about warranty card, registration, proof of purchase.

It makes selling/buying used units and getting warranty service much easier.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Holladay

Reminds me of when all the paint on the control dial of my Canon G9 just rubbed off one day. Just after the warranty expired of course. Very disappointing.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Valiant Thor

The serial number is almost completely rubbed off on my G7 and I really haven't used it that much. Looks like the ink used on the serial number is bad as the rest of the Panasonic info on the label is just fine.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Cost-cutting run amok!

Jul 10, 2015permalink

billbourd

When reporting a lost or stolen item the police [and I believe your insurance company] require a serial number to properly describe it in the NCIC [National Crime Information Center] data base. Without the serial number if an item is recovered there is no reasonable way to prove or show ownership. In my opinion Panasonics response to the problem indicates a total lack of understanding all the issues involved, which go beyond the warranty. And I don't think Panasonic is alone in this "cut costs to keep the shareholders happy" mentality where a robotic engraving a serial number will cost somewhat more.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

The Squire

Mistakes get made and they're being public about it. Not sure it's fair to have a go at a Japanese electronics company's lack of familiarity with your country's lost property procedures...

And, in my country (the UK) a perfectly valid solution is to mark the item either with an asset sticker or invisible pen showing your postcode... That's what the local rozzers tell you to do anyway, serial number or not.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

Just Ed

Had my Canon 6D 100-400L, 24-70, flash and bag burglarized from my condo last December. Did not have the serial number on one lens, but claim paid in full anyway. Had purchase receipts though.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

XVOYAGERX

Well said, they should now provide new metallic type stickers similar to what you get on laptops etc, with anti-fade serials and post out to `ALL` owners of the new cameras, free of charge!!

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Steve Balcombe

Actually the editorial has it wrong - Panasonic's statement doesn't in fact say that the serial number label from the box would be required for warranty validation, it says the number is there if you want to refer to it. (It is also in the EXIF data of course.) In any case, such a condition would be unenforceable in the EU, and probably elsewhere too.

Actually my biggest concern wouldn't be warranty claims, it would be not having a serial number on the body in the event of loss or theft. Having had a bag of gear stolen last year, all the serial numbered items were recovered and all the non-numbered items were not. And selling it myself when the time comes might be harder if the serial number has rubbed off.

I have to laugh at the expressions of shock and condemnation below. Has your favourite brand never suffered any kind of manufacturing defect? I don't currently own any Panasonic gear but this would not put me off in the slightest.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Panasonic makes a long-standing practice out of the rub-off ink they use. This was done by premeditated design, not be some freakish accident.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

newe

Drop prices by 45% and all will be forgiven.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Windeguy

Wow! So much emotion over serial numbers. I wonder why?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

AndroC

Face it, it's just shoddy manufacturing. All my Minolta lenses have proper paint filled deep engraving and will never wear off. How times have changed. But surely high tech whizzo robots can engrave numbers cheaply? Come on Panasonic, can you not do better?

Panasonic says it 'does not mean the cameras are not genuine', but this does not mean they are not fake copies if the number is not present. Not good logic. With fakes of camera gear now everywhere in abundance, who can tell?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Infared

Another reason to buy Olympus :-)

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Joel Halbert

I try to stay out of brand debates; I have and appreciate Olympus products also, but it is tiring to see Olympus users jump at every opportunity to make such a comment. There have been _many_ reports of buttons and dials falling off Olympus cameras, weak and bent tripod bottom plate mounts, and the occasional PRO lens separating from its mount. Panasonic, for all the other-side sneering, has a demonstrably low repair incidence for their cameras. This serial number issue is obviously a problem but I would say it's more of a manufacturing-flow issue (incorrect ink or incomplete cure) than a design flaw.

On the other hand, I would not be optimistic about the likelihood of no-problem handling in warranty repair. Panasonic's contracted service facilities don't seem particularly sensitive to customer service when anything unusual crops up, so I'm disappointed that Panasonic is suggesting one needs the original UPC, box or retained proof-of-purchase. They need a better solution.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

boxingshow

Kinda in love with this camera

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Le Kilt

Panasonic : can we have the serial number printed on again under warranty?
;-)

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Joriarty

I wonder if the huge "LUMIX" lettering rubs off as well...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

newe

Once they rub off "CHEAP" appears. Or "CHINA"

Jul 9, 2015permalink

oysso

I remember that Canon EOS 350 D had same issue. The serial number disappeared from the body in some days of use. No problem regarding warranty issues though. As long as I had a valid receipt there was no problem. And it should also be no problem with this camera too.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

It is a problem. Thus the press release and this amazing thread.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

oysso

It is only a problem if the manufacurer does not value its customers. Canon was not causing me any trouble even if the serial number was gone just a couple weeks after I began using the camera.

Jul 15, 2015permalink

Canon DID cause you considerable trouble. They sold you a camera that was so shoddy -- even the camera's serial number rubbed off into thin air after just a short period of use, according to your initial posting. Right?

Jul 15, 2015permalink

Alphoid

Store the UPC symbol on the box to get warranty? I've heard of crazy-talk warranty policies, but darn. I'm avoiding Panasonic whenever possible from here on.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

G-D

Who cares about serial numbers rubbing off when they're digitally stored in the body. Panasonic, concentrate on solving the shutter shock issue, please! Why no EFCS?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

JJ Rodin

Great news for all those who purchase cheap no warranty cams from another country - find a friend with a 'real' cam and use them to send in cam for warranty work - give them a small handling fee - WIN-WIN !!

PS: is the serial # or other id hidden elsewhere ??

Jul 9, 2015permalink

b534202

Probably in the firmware.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RichRMA

Remember when things like markings on cameras and lenses, even cheap ones were engraved and paint-filled on the bodies? This was before CHEAP silk-screening of paint was around. I have a Sigma lens that has NO focus scale because it rubbed off!!

Jul 9, 2015permalink

CameraLabTester

This is seriously a serial problem.

Panasonic must catch this serial killer...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

feraudy

Ay, there's the rub

Jul 9, 2015permalink

AbrasiveReducer

I'm waiting for someone to explain that these rub-off serial numbers are in fact a cutting edge high tech improvement over those old engraved numbers. Nothing whatsoever to do with making stuff cheaply.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

ShootFilmNotMegaPixels

Oh come on Leica lenses from the 1950s still have their serial numbers clear and visible, camera gear should be able to show serial numbers with zero percent of a problem

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Mike FL

So, "SN can NOT be rubbed off" +"No shutter shock" = 100% "knockoff" G7.

Yes?

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

Marty4650

Isn't the serial number somewhere in the firmware?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

photoreddi

Having only Panasonic P&S cameras I can't say whether the serial number is available in the firmware but it seems like it wouldn't, or the firmware upgrade code would have to transfer the serial number from the current firmware to the upgraded firmware. Or maybe you're talking about an embedded serial number in the camera's ROM or lower level microcode, not in the programmable memory that the firmware is written to.

This is just guesswork but I know that Nikon's DSLRs store their serial numbers somewhere because they're written into their photo's EXIF data. If Panasonic stores the G7's serial number in the EXIF data (and doesn't encrypt it) one of the online interactive websites that ferrets serial numbers out of uploaded photos should display it as well as programs like ExifTool/ExifGUI.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Fri13

Yes. Metadata includes every camera serial number. I use batch process on exporting to rip it off on public ones that doesn't matter.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Torsten Hoff

>> as long as you retain proof of purchase and the label from the camera box that states the serial number.

So if the camera was a gift or you already threw out the box, you're screwed? Sorry Panasonic, not good enough.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

MEMO FROM PANASONIC: "Sorry, Torsten -- maybe better luck next time?"

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Valiant Thor

Right. People get G7s for gifts all the time. Uh Huh.

The only camera I ever got as a gift was the cardboard one on the table at a wedding reception.

Also, if someone can't store the original box, packing, paperwork, accessories, and a photocopy of the purchase receipt for a camera in this price range, maybe they should be watching Martha Steward organizational videos.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

BeaverTerror

It's not about organization. I'm unable to retain any packaging for my purchases, because I have moved countries five times in the last nine years.

Even if I did have a sedentary lifestyle, I stilll wouldn't want to clutter up my residence with a bunch of trash. If I wanted to live in a dump, I could just move in with my grandmother.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Becksvart

Beaver: Haha : ) Perhaps you could just cut out the bit with serial# from the box?

As for Torsten, well, proof of purchase has been critical in claiming warranty since the dawn of mankind?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Panasonic should have just said that NOBODY will get any danged warranty for the Lumix G7, and be done with that. That horse and pony show and the condescending tone of their press release are driving some folks away from them.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

It was condescending but that's probably a translation issue, considering any native speaker can recognise the rude tone. I don't understand why people don't keep receipts for expensive purchases...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Le Kilt

Simple, if you have proof of purchase, Panasonic should be honouring first year warranty without considering serial numbers, as is done with many machines. Any other attitude would be illegal.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Receipts should include the serial number - otherwise it would be fairly easy to defraud Panasonic if you purchased a new body and another one on the second hand market (that was damaged).

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Torsten Hoff

@Valiant Thor
>> Right. People get G7s for gifts all the time. Uh Huh.

Just because you haven't given or received such a gift doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Our opinions are tainted by our experiences.

I personally have given another Panasonic camera of similar value as a gift to a teenager for her photography class. I gave the receipt in a sealed envelope to a parent, but I know the box was thrown out the same day.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Almost all of these Japanese electronics makers are making us run the gauntlet to have anything done. The presumption on their part is that we are out in numbers to defraud them. Like by asking for "free" warranty repairs and whatnot.

And please -- will you guys and ledies over there finally realize that business and ethics are different from the Japanese norms in almost all other corners of the world. For starters -- we are not bending and bowing down to the ground front of our boses.

A product being Japanese or "Made in Japan" -- well, that fact does not mean a whole bucket of wheat any more. Not like in previous decades.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Elliot H

pass

Jul 9, 2015permalink

fmian

Wouldn't have happened if they had a Leica QA inspector at the end of this production line...

Jul 8, 2015permalink

samfan

I know it's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things but I've wondered for a very long time why so many electronics manufacturers have this problem. Is it so hard to get a proper sticker? This can't even be a price issue.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Astronomy Dominie

Long live Panasonic. some manufacturers there, have their rubber part of their cameras rubbed-off but they have done nothing !

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Bhima78

Would rather they address shutter shock and at least announce that they are working on a fix for it.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

(unknown member)

Possibly the high frequency vibration is causing the ink to fragment and fall off.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

(unknown member)

I'll return the camera for a full refund.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

b534202

But you can't because the SN doesn't match! :p

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Horshack

If your serial number rubs off to reveal a "666" underneath then you'll finally understand why all the people in your photos have a shadow next to them.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

TriezeA72

And if it reveals three matching cherries, you win a car

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Is that just on sunny days now, or...?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RedDog Steve

"... our factory in Japan" ?
These cameras are made in China !

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Impulses

The G6 was (made in China), they might've moved production back tho, my GF6 is made in Japan... Maybe the stickers are printed in Japan either way.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

bongsogo

i think the parts are made in Japan but assembled in china...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

belle100

I think the whole thing, including the box and everything, are made in china, but they are shipped back to japan to stick on a serial label because the chinese ink is not invisible. What a plonker. lol.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Jun2

"Made in China" means good quality. They are really experienced in making things.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Fri13

Just better. Think how bad quality would be if it would read "Made in USA"....

Jul 9, 2015permalink

It should read: Manufactured in China - Assembled in Japan = Made in Japan.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Actually, I like the French labelling better - "Fabricated in China".

Jul 9, 2015permalink

straylightrun

Still not as bad as expensive Sony Zeiss emount lenses having their serial number as a STICKER on the bottom of the lens barrel that is easily moved around and peeled off in a few days of use.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

steelhead3

There is a sticker for Sony and engraved on the front of the lens is Zeiss's #

Jul 8, 2015permalink

snappur

Panasonic Manufacturing needs to rediscover the fine lost art of ENGRAVING.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Or short of that, some basic shopworking skills and common sense might suffice.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

steelhead3

With plastic you can stamp or burn a serial # in, but painting the #s probably is not cost effective. I wonder what other short cuts were in the manufacturing?

Jul 8, 2015permalink

AbrasiveReducer

Engraving costs money. Manufacturing in Japan costs money. Machining metal instead of molding plastic...you get the idea.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

The Japanese mfrs are losing it... big time.

Remember the heady 1950s and 1960s for Japanese products? Alas, those are not no more.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

falconeyes

Engraving is automated, done by machines. Doesn't add to cost of labor.

However, while my analog Pentax had an engraved S/N, all my digital cameras only have stickers. Maybe, because the info is in the firmware too.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RichRMA

On plastic? I guess it could be done.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Firmware S/N may not be an option when a camera develops a fault that makes that info unrecoverable. So having redundant records of the S/N is important.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

The Name is Bond

Brilliant move on panasonics part. I can see the other manufacturers copying this excellent wrarranty dodge.

Jul 8, 2015permalink