CP+ 2018: Hands-on with Tokina&#39;s 50mm F1.4 and 20mm F2

WHY is yet another new lens on a craptastic 6D?

Trying to give me focus nightmares...noooooo

6 months agopermalink

Easier to blame the camera than a prototype lens ;-)

6 months agopermalink

Edward - You actually claim to own a 6D, which is an excellent camera with a better or equal sensor to the equivalent D610. So why are you describing the camera in derogatory terms?

6 months ago*permalink

Nomoreheroes

The focus system on the 6D is from the earlier Jurassic period

6 months agopermalink

Nomoreheroes - Yes, it was a budget camera so the AF system was basic, but at the time of it's release it had one of the best FF sensors on the market.

I sold mine due to reliability issues when using the camera in extreme weather conditions, but for 99% of users it was an extremely good camera, and deservedly popular. It easily outsold the Nikon D610 (which was also an excellent camera).

6 months ago*permalink

entoman

I dont claim to own it, I do own it, for better or worse. ;)

The camera was chosen by canon to have an utterly embarrassing, poor, ridiculous, worse than a rebel performing Af module. They could have done more, but they chose to protect the 5d3. One single dual cross point.

The 6d2, same canon crap- make sure the senor isnt that great, so the 5d4 can look that much better. Just embarrassing.

These arent mistakes. These are deliberate actions to keep all the money from enthusiasts pointing towards a 5 series (not beamer!). I'm a canon guy, but man, they are looking REALLY, really bad currently.

So yeah, its a nice camera if you love to shoot dead center. if not...

xx
O

PS- i still have it because of its high iso. but now, its just not enough.

6 months ago*permalink

Edward - Yes, Canon always play the segmentation game, crippling some models to make others look better. Unfortunately for them, just about every other brand now has a superior specification and performance.

But I often wonder if we are all a bit too obsessed with new tech, and question whether getting a "better" camera would actually make a blind bit of difference to the end result. It probably wouldn't, and I know I can trust Canon cameras implicitly. They deliver. Full stop.

However I also wonder whether getting something "better" would increase my hit rate with wildlife photography - silent shutter, no mirror blackout, faster burst speeds - all these and more convince me that I should switch to Sony and use my Canon L glass via a metabones.

But replacing 2 pro camera bodies, 2 dedicated flashguns and having to buy an adaptor, all adds up to an outlay that at the moment I can't justify in terms of potential extra good shots.

6 months agopermalink

Entoman

"But I often wonder if we are all a bit too obsessed with new tech, and question whether getting a "better" camera would actually make a blind bit of difference to the end result."

Fair points.

It does matter. I shoot every NY fashion week as my main events in the year. The 6D was unusable, and that's why I had to get a 5d3. We can either say the 6d wasn't meant for it (single cross point- best for rocks and landscapes :) ), or we can say the body just doesn't have the goods to perform well in any quick Af necessary situation.

Now counter that with sony's 2k body that makes the 5d4 look...challenged. Or the d850. these body's can shoot everything. It s a huge pivot from canon's 'one camera, best for one thing' losers strategy.

Unfortunately it looks like canon is going to take beating for the next few years...their feint notes of forward movement are tepid at best. The 54 is a good, if not great cam, but no canon is better known for what its bodies LACK. Thats just sad.

6 months agopermalink

Edward - Yes I agree. I think that every Canon owner (with the exception of ultra-defensive fanboy extremists) also in his heart agrees and condemns Canon's marketing strategy.

To be fair, my Canon bodies and lenses perform extremely well and can easily handle any job I throw at them, but Nikon's current range blows everything that Canon make out of the water, as far as specifications and stills performance are concerned.

The current Sony's IMHO are even better than the Nikon equivalents, although I find their ergonomics to be extremely poor in comparison to Canikon.

My ideal camera would be a Canon DSLR with a hybrid EVF that enabled me to shoot silently and without mirror blackout, but although Canon hold patents for this design, I think it's extremely unlikely to see the light of day for at least another 3 years, if ever.

So I guess I'll just trundle along with my DSLR gear and watch developments. Switching systems is not cheap!

6 months ago*permalink

Indeed.

There is a greater fear for me and others I suppose as well. For anyone invested in any kind of tech, its good to be at least aware of what the future holds for the brands products. Like my apple laptops- the newer versions have features that i despise- so either double up on my current models, or succumb to the next gen foolishness (magic bar or whatever).

If my 5d3 craps out on me, well it's 3k for the 5d4...which is literally the only option in the segment - it's getting pretty old at this point, and that's a lot to invest in old tech. That's a terrible situation to be in with the d850 ont he market, and the a7 III. As a canon customer, it's like being in crazytown. Canon would rather us NOT have choices at this camera level. It's insane.

My M1 remains my most used body by far, and im excited to even have it as a backup because it been great for me. There are quite a few M bodies to chose from. Great, at least for what they are.

6 months agopermalink

Edward - You would notice a very significant improvement if you upgraded 5DMkiii to 5DMkiv or 5DS. A lot of people seem a bit scared of 50MP, but in my opinion the 5DS is the best model in the Canon range, and currently a lot cheaper than 5DMkiv.

At ISO 400 or higher there is very little (if any) observable difference in dynamic range between 5DMkiv and 5DS (I have both). The 5DMiv has less noise, but the 5DS is perfectly capable of producing noise-free 20x16 prints at ISO1000-1600, if you get the exposure right.

In fact for my usage (wildlife, macro, landscape) the 5DS is generally a far better choice. The only disadvantages are the large file sizes and fairly slow burst rate. Switching systems is ultra expensive, so it's well worth considering the 5DS.

6 months ago*permalink

Photoevian

Bodies getting smaller, lenses getting bigger....

6 months agopermalink

Biowizard

Lovely looking lenses - but I am just a little bemused by how the classic 50mm F1.4 (as embodied in my Olympus Zuiko OM-1 prime, and later Contax Zeiss T* prime) keeps growing LARGER?! These new lenses are ENORMOUS - and do they perform any better than my Zeiss Planar?!

Brian

6 months agopermalink

kpaddler

The bigger the lens the more money they can charge, and there are enough people to think the more money they spend the better their pictures of their cats/dog gets. It works for everyone.

6 months ago*permalink

Suave

Says a man with an Otus in his wish list :)

6 months agopermalink

movingpictures

That 20mm Firin is nice. It’s smaller than the Sigma Art f/1.4 which means it’ll play nice with electronic gimbals, and best of all, it takes filters, which means you can film wide open with proper shutter speeds. 👌👌

6 months agopermalink

The 22/f2 EF-M is NICE.

6 months agopermalink

GabrielZ

With Tamron and especially Sigma offering all the bells and whistles in the third party lens department, what advantage does Tokina offer over them? Due to their small size I suppose they always seem to be a little behind the curve.

6 months agopermalink

They are weathersealed and have f1.4. Tamron has weathersealing and VC, but f1.8 only. Sigma has no sealing whatsoever but is sharp @f1.4.

ergo --> Tokina has f1.4 and weathersealing... seems to be a fair compromise if sharp open. Sigma Art lenses are useless in the field. I "destroyed" a 50mm 1.4 in very light rain.

6 months agopermalink

SmilerGrogan

Because there is more to a lens than resolution in the dead center. Factors like chromatic aberration, Consistent sharpness across the frame, and let’s talk about resolution when the lens is wide open, most lenses look like hell at their widest apertures....

6 months agopermalink

Not everyone wants Sigma's behemoth offerings. And as others have said, there are other considerations to lens choice there than all out sharpness. It's why there is a market for a Sigma 50 Art and a Nikon 58 1.4.

6 months agopermalink

https://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,266346.msg6701810.html#msg6701810

That's correct and I would take my 85L 1.2 any time over the Sigma 85mm Art. Sharpness? If you want sharpness eat indian.

6 months agopermalink

Nomoreheroes

Blurriness, I would take some English dish or the Canon lens

6 months agopermalink

Couscousdelight

It looks like that was co-developped with Pentax, as seen on a French forum. Pentax / Tokina have a long history of colaboration.

6 months ago*permalink

Nomoreheroes

Pentax has a history of rebadging lenses too
Pay for two and get one with less features

6 months agopermalink

cosinaphile

yes pentax lenses have shared development and badging with tokina etc for decades

6 months agopermalink

Too big and bulky and no IS. Might as well stay with the 1.8 STM

6 months agopermalink

It's not that big as lenses go. Let's see how it performs eh? What if that 50/1.4 is as good as the Sigma Art optically, but has more consistent AF?

6 months agopermalink

It's huge compared to both of Canon's 1.8 and 1.4 and probably even bigger than the 1.2. A 50mm should be a fun nifty lens to use.

6 months agopermalink

I hear you, but I suppose Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss et al. would observe that such lenses already exist; there was no gap in the market for another light 50/1.8. I sometimes use my Nikon 50/1.8 G when I'm out and about shooting handheld, but when I'm shooting more slowly and deliberately, I prefer the Sigma Art.

As I've said elsewhere, you can't have it all roads. If you want high levels of correction from an f/1.4 lens, then you're going to need a lot of glass and glass is heavy stuff...

6 months agopermalink

Lenses are becoming too clinical.

6 months agopermalink

NicoPPC

Yep. Hopefully some manufacturer will release a middle range 50mm F1.4 IS... even 1.8 IS would be great. Would not it ?

Thanks Tamron!

6 months agopermalink

@jay jay 02 But what of those who need a 50mm lens for serious use, not for "fun"? Horses for courses - there are 50mm lenses in every flavour, from the Lensbaby to the Otus, and this is closer to the latter on the sliding scale.

6 months agopermalink

@NicoPPC
Did you try the 45mm f1.8 VC from Tamron? A *very* capable optic!

6 months agopermalink

NicoPPC

@vscd.
Thanks.
actually I did not. As it came out, I already had the EF 35mm F2.0 IS USM... so i do not really need it. I do believe it :).

I do prefer these mid-range lenses..

bye

6 months ago*permalink

Why stop at the STM? I have a near pancake Nikon 50 1.8 Series E that you can stick in your pocket and still have room for your wallet. :-). Tamron 45 1.8VC is an awesome lens.

6 months agopermalink

@mgblack74 small, cheap, fun to use, and sharp as a pin ;-)

6 months agopermalink

photomedium

Every market imaginable has moved past the realization that weather sealing is a necessary thing, all but in the camera/lens manufacturers sector. It really must be populated by a cohort of old fools.
This should really start from the mount itself. How complicated it is to ask the machine shop guy to cut out a grove in the mount flange and put a 5c o-ring in it??

6 months agopermalink

Teddoo

That's a good point, any lens that is not the cheapest possible should weather sealed. However putting a seal on the back of the lens makes some people think the whole lens is weather proof so they might leave it out.

6 months agopermalink

Odd that the 50mm is weather sealed while the co-announced 20mm is not.

6 months agopermalink

it's for Sony and since their cameras are not weather sealed, no need lol

6 months agopermalink

Well, there's always a hope they're going to sort that out someday, especially after the sh%tstorm that had ensued. :)

6 months agopermalink

ZilverHaylide

While there's a definite usefulness for a 50mm f1.4 lens that aims to maximize performance, even wide open, the size and weight of these modern behemoths is off-putting to me. The 50mm focal length is a compromise, but a very useful one, which is why it used to be the standard lens on full-frame. A photographer could walk around, relatively discretely, with just a camera body and a SMALL 50mm f1.4 and produce some very good work -- and not need physical therapy on his/her shoulder, arm, or hand at the end of the day. The 1.4 maximum aperture helped with the view and with focusing, even if not used that much as the taking aperture, but could be so employed with limitations if necessary. Rather than the modern-day behemoths, I'd much rather have a modern 50mm f1.4 designed with the old philosophy, but with contemporary coatings and autofocus capability.

6 months agopermalink

Or an f/2.8 with the optical performance of the likes of Sigma Art and Zeiss Otus etc. It'd be plenty bright enough for me!

6 months agopermalink

a fifty 2.8? No thanks.

what's next, an f4.....nahhh

6 months agopermalink

A 50/2.8 would suit me fine. I rarely shoot my 50s brighter than that, and indeed I'm usually in the f/4 - f/11 range.

6 months agopermalink

Fine is not good enough anymore. The tech is there to create some truly spectacular lenses. I dont have another 30 years of hoping to get to the good stuff..cmon already.

No one cares about a party thats three months away...the one that is next week is more important.

6 months agopermalink

Edward - I would insist that a 50/2.8 be nothing less than an optical wonder! We're just talking about maximum aperture here. Unless your main subject is very distant, DOF is severely limited at f/2.8 on a standard lens; f/1.4 is only really useful in extremely low light, where we put up with having everything blurred in return for lower noise. We must also tolerate the enormous size of a highly corrected 50/1.4!

6 months agopermalink

I'm "firin" Tokina will go down the tubes if they don't get with the mirrorless program.

6 months agopermalink

The 20mm will sell well. It's full frame and is also a good focal length for aps-c and super 35 video.

6 months agopermalink

@DiffractionLtd
The mirrorless-concept is only a different market which tries to get along with teh bigplayers like Nikon/Canon. I think it's better to release a lens like this and adapt it on mirrorless... because a mirrorlesslens would not be adaptable on DSLRs. So this is just clever market-research, away from mirrorless-trolling.

6 months agopermalink

Nothing clever about catering only to a declining breed of camera.

6 months agopermalink

@diffractionltd..... The sheer volume of DSLRs out there still massively outnumber Sony mirrorless. Sony may be getting all the headlines these days but they are defiantly not the answer to a question never asked. They are just different. Just like Sigma and their gargantuan lenses, there is a tipping point where a lens' large size is ridiculous or a camera's small size is equally ridiculous for serious applications and doesn't suit an individual's needs or wants. DSLRs will be around for a long time. For stills use they are the better option, for serious video, there better options than the form factor of a mirrorless camera.

6 months agopermalink

Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Canon. All make mirrorless today. Growth is in mirrorless. Nokia used to have an enormous amount of the phone market, biggest business in Finland. But they refused to change and while still around, they aren't much these days.

6 months agopermalink

@diffraction Ltd
This is a fullframe lens, can you please repeat your list of vendors with mirrorless and fullframe? Please.

6 months agopermalink

@vscd
Not sure what your point with diffractionLtd is but 20mm is a very good FL for a third party to release in e-mount.

There are no native AF full frame 20s and the 30mm focal length is also eminently usable on aps-c e-mount. So Tokina has released a lens that is of potential interest to all e-mount users.

6 months agopermalink

@Rubberdials
The article is about fullframelenses and "Diffractionltd" is writing "Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Canon. All make mirrorless today. Growth is in mirrorless.". In fact, there are only two companies with fullframe-mirrorless, and one is a rangefinder.
That you can use those lenses on APS-C, too, is nice but it doesn't change the fact that there are *NO* mirrorlesscams with fullframe except of Sony.

It seems that the mirrorlessguys need to destroy all threads with their "wisdom".

6 months agopermalink

@vscd
Ah okay. I imagine he was referring to the fact that the mirrorless market is expanding, whist the DSLR one is shrinking.

Sony is in a slightly different position re third party manufacturers. Although they are the only FF mirrorless manufacturers beside Leica, they have almost all of the FF mirrorless market. I don't know what the Leica SL sales are but lets guess conservatively at 1%.

There are clearly enough e-mount users for third party manufacturers to target them with bespoke designs that they do not offer to DSLR users. There is already an example of this in Zeiss which manufactures the Batis and Loxia line exclusively for e-mount.

6 months agopermalink

Please note again: Not everyone wants APS-C, and in the fullframe world mirrorless is *not* coming even close to the amount of sold bodies. So if a 3rd Party company sells lenses for fullframe they will be very likely made for DSLRs. You can mount them on mirrorless, too. So, I don't see a problem.

It's better then selling Mirrorless-only lenses and exclude the big names. Better for the company and for the market.

6 months agopermalink

@vscd
I don't think you appreciate the size of the e-mount market, vscd. It's a cinema mount as well as a stills and video one. If you make the only AF FF 20mm then you are going to sell a lot of lenses. Tokina obviously did a calculation and they worked out that it was worthwhile to them - as Zeiss did previously with Batis and Loxia.

6 months agopermalink

And where is the catch against my message? It's still better to make DSLR lenses which you can attach to your e-mount instead of making e-mount-only optics. By the way E-mount is no fullframe mount, FE is.

6 months agopermalink

@vscd
'It's still better to make DSLR lenses which you can attach to your e-mount instead of making e-mount-only optics.'

Third party lens makers enter their markets carefully. Look at these two lenses - a 50/1.4 for Canikon and a 20/2 for e-mount. Even without detailed market information I can see that is shrewd product development.

A Tokina 50/1.4 in e-mount is not likely to sell well. There are many native 50mm e-mount lenses including gems from Zeiss and Sony. Canon's 50s however are old film era designs. There is a good market for a modern hi-res design like the Tokina.

There is no native FF e-mount 20mm lens. There is a Sony aps-c-only 20/2.8 but this is consumer quality. A high quality FF-capable moderately fast lens like this is attractive to both A7xxx and A6xxx users.

Contd.

6 months agopermalink

Contd.

Sure there are fewer e-mount users than Canikon DSLR users, but there is also no competition. Tokina won't sell their 20mm to every e-mount user but they won't lose sales to any other manufacturer because their isn't one. A Canon user considering the Tokina 50 might go with Sigma.

Tokina didn't release these lenses as a punt - they are clearly both potential good sellers.

'By the way E-mount is no fullframe mount, FE is.'

There is no FE mount, only e-mount. FE is a lens designation like DX/FX in Nikon.

6 months ago*permalink

Do any of you labour under the delusion that you can't use FF lenses on APS or m4/3rds?

6 months agopermalink

moimoi

It is nice to see Tokina is stepping up even though they seem to be late in the game (Sigma, then Tamron, and Tokina now). When I used to shoot with Nikon, I owned the Tokina 12-24 f/4 and later one the 11-16 f/2.8 lenses. Both were very well built, and and the focus was no issues on the D200/D300s. Hopefully those new lenses will focus well when mounted on FF cameras.

Now Canon needs to step and release a new 50 mm f/1.4, which is long overdue.

6 months ago*permalink

David610

No aperture ring? Why?

6 months agopermalink

moimoi

It is time for the aperture ring...to die.......in 2018 ;-)

6 months ago*permalink

The aperture ring is coming back. Most FE primes and many Fuji lenses have it.

It's very beneficial for video as its de-clickable and stepless.

6 months agopermalink

Karafuru

Not everyone makes them de-clickable :*(

6 months agopermalink

I think it needs to become a standard.

6 months agopermalink