Just posted: Nikon D800 test samples

That very much depends on the medium format lens used. Decent medium format lens could easily benefit from 80MP sensor.

The field camera lenses must be optimised "smaller" medium format sensors, so their imaging circle is much smaller than old 4x5" view camera lenses. More similar to 6x7 lenses given that there's also some room for movements.

I just picked up mine last night. I had ordered it through NPS priority purchase. I don't know when the rest will be available though!

I shoot weddings for a living and most of my portfolio is still made up of images made with my 20D, D70, and some from 5D mark 2. If you review them all in a slideshow or printed at reasonable sizes and by reasonable I mean 24x30 prints nobody can ever tell the difference. So the idiots are those who think the tool is what sucks. None of my clients have ever said anything about one picture looking inferior to another when seeing them on my 50" HDTV during my presentation and that tells me that I can still shoot weddings with 10d and D70's if I was broke and nobody would ever notice especially the idiots that fall for dpreview's test charts.

I got some 24x30 printed from my 20D canons and if anybody has a lot of time on their hands to come to beautiful British Columbia and view them and tell me that they would look better on 5D Mark 2 or on D800 I dare you but be aware, I might have shot them on Mark 2 and just told u it was 300D in which case you are the idiot twice!

for dpreview test charts I want to know

1. are they using one lens to make these tests and if not then these tests are bogus.

2. why is the white balance and density on jpegs is different from test to test. This tells me the tests are bogus

3. if all raw files compared sided by side were done in ACR then for those people who use capture and dpp these tests are bogus

4. if all raw files compared side by side were done in capture against dpp then for people who use ACR these tests are irrelevant

5. these tests don't represent the quality that this camera is capable of outputing because each of us use different methods of post production and for each of us we need to see a similar process of post processing in order to claim these test charts to be relevant to our needs.

6. dpreview is a website that makes a profit, therefore we don't know if the samples were fabricated in favour of manufacturers in order to make more money.

i can go on and on but I think everyone got the point.

Thanks Peli01, D700 is a brilliant camera, but the more MP, the more magnified the effect of camera shake seems to become - something the manufacturers haven't mentioned it seems (at least without using IS technology). Like you I had no problem with handholding my similar 5Dmk II but the replacement Mk III is unreliable to use below 125th for a sharp result - and that's on a zeiss 35mm f2, heavier than the 50mm nikkor.

Most 5x4 images hand-held were done using flash - Graflex for instance only delivered sharp images because of a flashbulb. You're misunderstanding the issue - it's not silly, it's a technical issue to do with modern high-resolution digital sensors. Yes cameras like the arca-swiss are designed to be hand-holdable, but it's the same situation with a 500c/m versus an HD40 - the digital medium format equivalent is not hand-holdable if you want to get the best from it... unless you're using studio flash...

Correct. But that doesn't deal with the issue of why you'd want such a high-res camera in the first place - i.e., bigger images. The DOF issue (along with camera shake if not using a tripod) will be magnified. Anyway... any professional photographers out there who have a considered response to my original post? Bored now.

How on earth can you take a comment seriously when someone down loads JPGs then increases the file size of one to match the D800 size (using the term 'up-ressed the M5 to match the D800 in Ps@) then starts to compare them!!!

What a load of nonsense - JPEGs introduces changes to a file and so does increasing the pixel count it does not increase the resolution. If you are going to compare images it needs to be between two similar files.

Now the debate on this box is getting more and more ridiculous, cant hand hold d800???? yeah you cant... if you are using lets say 85mm with a shutter speed of 1/15, but with a shutter speed of 1/125, I am absolutely sure you will get a sharp image.... unless you have a terminal tremor disease.... ck ck ck.. yawn yawn yawn....and MK3 is only like 1 meg more than the mk2, I hand hold my mk 2 with 50mm and a shutter speed of 1/60 and it looks ... perfect at 100% magnification... whats wrong with you? what have u been smoking dude?

Thank you for comment, enriching. What would you recommend then for hand held use? 5d Mark III?

LMAO!

I´m a Nikon fan, but the samples posted here show me clearly Canon´s edge over Nikon: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5d-mkiii/canon-5d-mkiiiA.HTM. And please, DON´T doubt I'm a Nikon fan, oh yes....

Sorry to say this.....you need to do the following:
1) Check the sample images again...upgrade your monitor if you need to, and calibrate for gamma and color.
2) View them at 100% not fit to screen
3) Put on your glasses if you are not wearing one cos' you t have forgotten due to senior moments.
4) If you have done (3), get an eye check-up to make sure you have the right glasses.
If results do not vary, repeat 1 to 4 again...or just quit doing this.
Thank you.

Dear Mohdya:

I´m so sorry to say this, but maybe your list of tips is these one:

1) Check the sample images again...upgrade your monitor if you need to, and calibrate for gamma and color.
2) View them at 100% not fit to screen
3) Put on your glasses if you are not wearing one cos' you t have forgotten due to senior moments.
4) If you have done (3), get an eye check-up to make sure you have the right glasses.
5) And if you put hope and faith, you shall share my point of view (o cuz it is the only true).

If results do not vary, repeat 1 to 4 again...or just quit doing this and just practice my rule number 5.

Thank you, Nikon fan.

I'm not a fan. If Nikon or Canon gave me their stuff for free I'd be inclined to post how this one is so much better than the other. But since I have to buy these products, I don't feel the need to provide free advertising. I don't even use the camera straps with the giant NIKON/CANON on them. I have my own custom strap that says "Steal Me Please!" in equally large letters.

@ Charly, well old enuf to think that some of the nikon fan boys are idiots...:)
@ Alejandro, Rite now I am working with canon system and some medium format camera.
@ tape 5, well I am cool, I just cant understand some of the fan boy. I just sold my 5d mk2 and thinking of upgrading my 35mm dslr for outdoor shooting and Honestly, I am leaning towards nikon d800 based on the resolution advantage and its price. Since, I am a strobist and I dont think high iso matter that much in my style of shooting, but I really need to know more about its focusing speed, accuracy and consistency compared to Mark III before i make a decision on my final purchase. Cuz personally, I think better resolution dont mean nothing if you dont have acceptable focusing speed, accuracy and consistency , as my a not so good past experience with 5d mkII focusing system.

Stanley,

Rest assured, my friend, that Fanboys, no matter their allegiance, are usually idiots. Apple, Android, Nikon, Canon, Samsung... You name it, I'll show you tons of idiocies from their fanboys.

I guess you're only kidding but I dearly hope you're not deciding which camera system to invest 5k, 6k or more dollars based on forum fanboys...

Also, this certainly ain't news to you if you are a strobist, but not all lighting systems are the same... Nikon's CLS is very well regarded as it matters to flexibility, integration and features. Canon just put out new flashes with expanded wireless functions, not exactly sure what they are, I don't own a Canon, sadly (if I could buy all of these cameras I would :P).

Tape5...

>In a hundred years from now all of us, and all of our cameras will be ash.

But under the Nikon Professional Users Scheme you wil be able to return your D800 ashes for an equivalent replacement model.

Try doing that with a 5Dmk3 - hah!

> the 'overall score' is totally subjective on DXO's part.

I think they are willing to be objective if they know how to.

(1) an overall score will depend on statistics which may be
different from all the patterns and not correct for anyone.

(2) there are factors that cannot be quantized easily, like RAW NR. we know Nikon/Sony are not cooking their RAWs as extreme as Pentax but we don't know the exact SNR values we should punish them. DxO is trying to do something about it but it's very difficult if possible.

if anyone as me about image quality, I'll say they all look the same: D3S, D4, D800, 5D2, 5D3, and 1DX (except apparent differences in resolution).

Looks like you didn't upscale, just zoomed in on the screen. That's why you get all those jaggies. If you upscaled, the images would all appear much closer in quality.

Dear Ynola thank you - a difference is very evidently visible

Stanley zheng ,
do you belong to the boys anti-nikon fun
or simply trade Canon ?

@panstas, I, neither hate either brands, nor I favor either brands more over the other, I only buy the brands of an equipment that suits my taste and shooting style. Because to my understanding money dont grow on trees and its pretty stupid to make a purchasing decision of an equipment solely based on brands. unless Nikon or canon give me everything i need for free, than I will talk louder than any of you fan boys.....

Correct. The value of DXOMarks is there because it is a composite of many different, imperfect scores. I've always felt the overall score is a bit of bragging rights to a lot of users. BTW, I am a Nikon user with a Camera with one of the top scores.

Still, they deserve credit for having their score encompass all major aspects of photography. WAY too many people are blinded by ISO numbers.

Sony deserves some credit for their Exmor Sensor technology. All cameras based on their design have tremendous DR and overall image quality.

Sylvain Larive:

Too many of the early Sony Exmor P&S cameras produced images that looked always out of focus. Sort of a good idea but then the execution didn't follow--typically Sony.

DR also depends on lens quality.

While sensor technology has a bearing on AF accuracy, I don't think it has a huge impact. If Sony P&S do not focus accurately, it isn't because of their Exmor sensors but a poor implementation of AF algorithms and hardware. Nikon has superb AF and they use Sony sensors in many of their designs.

As far as DR go, yes a lens can affect DR, but at heart I believe this is a sensor attribute. Most reviewers will state a DR for each camera, not a camera/lens combo. Obviously DR is affected by ISO settings and other things.

Mtsuoka--

Damn, you're right. Time for me to get some Canon 5D III raws somewhere, though not form DPReview I note.

Got a place to download raw samples from the 5D III?

But the point that many times people need to disclose what file type they're commenting upon remains.

I got mine from imaging resource

Mtsuoka:

Cool! I'll take a look, unfortunately every secondary page at Imaging Resource refuses to load over my slow home connection--never seen anything that bad, ever.

If it weren't for your statement, I'd guess that the IR servers aren't connected anymore.

Dear Muratime, please examine mikro hairsprings of white roller for a paint - it in a center of a test - I think the Nikon's is best

for me according to this results Nikon's is best anyway, JPEG conversion of MMArkIII is painting the eyes of poeple.. which is not correct even...

I agree but low iso is important than iso6400...

to FOTOINFORMATOR dot PL

OK , and let us compare on 320 000 000 ISO :)
(I never use 6400)

panstas:

And of course you never ever go above 200ASA, well then get a Leica S2.

Agree ... contrary to what some Canon fanboys says I agree with you, I will use D800 36MP ISO6400 without a problem, even with NR at normal the detail retention is great.
Best Regards

Business is business, that depends on how they structure their strategies.
The same situation in personnel computer business vs. main frame computer business

Stanley, one more important thing between your case (the motor vehicle business) and this case is the focus on different market segment.
Sony F65 is selling their Total Solution in motion picture industries, not just the F65 camera body, but the whole solution behind the camera, like the workflow in post processing, their cooperation with Panavision....
On the other hand, the business of Nikon cameras are major in consumer sector, Total Solution is not a selling point to their customers.

Don't mislead.
Never just based on the pixel size to determine the quality of the image.
Different materials, different circuit designs and different physical structures of the cmos / ccd generate different results.
Especially when you are talking different manufacturers with different technologies and manufacturing processes, they are not apple-to-apple comparison.

@Edmund, its true that pixel size is not everything, and its true that it is not apple to apple comparison. Because it is hard, Final image is not only determined by camera sensor only, but also lens. And every lens from different manufacturer has different qualities given at the same size. Let say 85mm from nikon, has a different g spot, I am sorry "sweet spot" hehehe than lets say canon 85mm. and which to pick for the test given the best 85mm from canon is over 2 grands, and the best from nikon is way less than 2 grands, each has different quality and different sweet spot that will influence the final results. It is hard to measure the real quality of the camera sensor alone.
But we know, (not for absolute certainty as well) that MarkIII performs better under difficult lighting situation. At least that's what I got from the sample image at imaging resources.

Stanley,
I'm not so interested in such comparison.
From technical point of view, the measurement of a cmos / ccd is not doing in this informal way. They have their specific instrument to measure it.
From the user point of view, that small difference in image quality is absolute not a matter for day-to-day use or for creation purpose.
From the business point of view, the most important is the cost benefit of the camera. Actually, the post-processing can adjust a lot of defects.

@Edmund, I guess thats exaclty what I was saying on my original post, if you care to read it again, that I honestly suspect, there will not be a substantial difference in the final output under the real world application. Because final image does not depend solely on these small differences, and yes.. its true and I totally agree with you that the post processing is also one of the determining factor of final image that is going to be delivered to your client, and yes, you can also retouch some of the variation that u may not want on your final image. Thus, I conclude that neither of these 2 camera will give you an absolute upper hand against the other, the real question is, which camera body will suits your workflow better, thats what matter the most.

@edmund, maybe if you spend more time in your studio, then I guess you might wanna go with nikon d800 since higher mega pixel gives more latitude in your post processing, but if you are a wedding photographer who works more under the low lighting and uncontrolled lighting situation you may wanna go with canon. Or if you are a nikon shooter, u may wanna go with d800 cuz you already have your nikon lenses collection, and the same goes with canon shooter..... well thats my opinion...:)

Why is Stanley getting so hung up on ISO and noise levels at high settings? Not everyone wants to shoot fast moving subjects at twilight! In my case, about 98% of all photos I take are at ISO 100, with the only exceptions being when I shoot the odd stage show - and there, a little bit of "filmic" noise can actually improve the subjective result!

You wanna shoot in the dark? Get a D3. Or an image intensifier tube.

Brian

@emacs I never said that canon had a better resolution, try read it again..:) what I said was Nikon has a better resolution, but not a lot, given that nikon has 60 percent more mega pixel. And by saying not a lot here is clearly a subjective opinion and judgment on my part. If you are happy with Nikon resolution and think that its out of the world then be my guess..:) cuz I am neither nikon or canon fan boy... I dont care which one better.. I only care which one serves my purpose better.,..:) and thanks for the advise to learn to use my tool better...... I believe you are a much more eloquent tool user, and maybe one day I can learn something from you..:)

Stanley,
Sorry, I'm not in those businesses.
I deal with professional printing/document processing.
Cameras are just the tools for us to perform part of our jobs in artworks.

@Biowizard, Oh my god.. I am not hung up on iso .. or noise level, I was merely stating what I saw from the sample image, and honestly, neither of those 2 cameras are my favorite..I am neither nikon fan boy, nor canon fan boy, to me Nikon and Canon are still a honda accord, and they are not mercedes or
Bentley and Not even a lexus, just stating what I saw from the samples and maybe the samples can be wrong too, go and address your complain to imaging resources... and why do u get hung up on my post? hahahahaha

@Edmund, wow.. okkk..:) then I guess you are in the wrong box... you shud be on the sony f65......:) which is more professional to you....:)

Stanley,
No, I personally like photography. That's why I participated in a number of Challenges by DPR.
I do not use expensive cameras; but I have interest to study various cameras in the market. Might be one day I will deal with the camera business too.
For sure, I like the motion picture cameras much more than the still cameras... That's why I'm so interested in Panavision, Arri, Eclair...

The grey levels in the 5D Mark III are outstanding completely devoid of chroma noise... whereas the D800 is applying excessive NR and still you can see traces of chroma noise...

I'm using PS CS5 to compare samples... The thread fabrics look like a pastel impression on the D800 from ISO 3200... the bottles look overly processed... leaving deep levels of black but rendering the image with an artificial look... the placards on the D800 are nowhere nearly as well defined as on the 5D III ... the light pink one is severely lacking in texture... the sunflower design looks like a watercolour... the khaki one lacks the intricate pattern clearly definied on the 5D III... & the wooden slabs look like Nikons NR has obliterated any semblance of detail & colour saturation found at lower sensitivities...

The 5D III should be compared against the D4 ... now thats a worthwhile comparison... This D800 is more like an experimental prototype camera which Nikon is betting on for marketing purposes

@lensberg: are you using a high end graphical monitor that is calibrated? I cannot come to the conclusions you do. But what the heck, if you like the Canon better then it is fine with me :-) I already got Nikon lenses so I'm of course going for the Nikon.

@ Edmund Leung, Thats exactly my point...both cameras are good, and there is no clear winner over each other. It all comes down to which one you like better. One has the advantage over the other and also the down sides. which I suspect in the real world, and in the final print output, our client will not be able to notice the difference. But then again, it is still to early to judge, since the 2 camera are not really in the market yet. So lets wait and see.

Stanley zheng ,you under magic of the names are
and let us look the real shot of Hasselblad and Nikon D800
face to face

@panstas well yeahhh of course nikon d800 rulezzzzzzz its the best camera in the world for you retarded nikon fan boys... really you need to get a life. I really feel sorry for u fan boys..... yeah hasselblad is only a big name.... I am sure nikon d800 will blow it out of the water too ....:) you are one sad case...

Really?
It seems Canon has more patent filed than Nikon did in the past few years.

@ Edmond Leung
Because they were trying to catch up the Nikon these two years.
BTW SLRs are dying breed.

I own a 120 Hp city car, and an almost a 60 percent more horsepower both stock engine, clearly the 200 horsepower car that I have blow the 120 hp out of the water, you cannot even compare in terms of acceleration and handling and top speed....But nikon??? with 60 percent more meg??? doesnt blow canon out of the water ahahahah but at a purchasing cost nearly 15 percent cheaper, it is worth considering hahahahahha