Lytro unlocks Wi-Fi with firmware update, introduces iOS app: Digital Photography Review

Lytro unlocks Wi-Fi with firmware update, introduces iOS app

Published Jun 19, 2013 | dpreview staff

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andix

I was browsing the Lytro forums on dpreview when...

wait, what?

Jun 23, 2013permalink

vladimir vanek

"Lytro has released a firmware update that enables the Wi-Fi chips inside its 8GB and 16GB light field cameras." - this kind of statements sounds a bit strange to me. They always present it like an advantage for the user. But hey, why don't they just admit that they've been selling not fully functional products and say something like "we were so eager to release the cam to the market that we weren't able to enable all its functions at the time of the release"??? Is it some kind of fashion to release unfinished products, such as those M****$oft OS' that need a week of updating after installation? And they act as if it was absolutely OK. But, it's like selling a car with V4 engine for V6 money and then releasing an "update" that will unlock 2 more cylinders.... WTF??

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

Selling a car with a V4 engine for any price and then saying we found more power later sounds like a great deal to me!

No one told you to buy that V4 car at any price, and you have no basis to assume the Lytro's price is strongly (or even weakly) related to manufacturing costs - in fact, most quality things aren't related at all.

Or do you want to accuse Leica of ripping people off?

Jun 20, 2013*permalink

jaygeephoto

Yes. And I hear that Chrysler is going to release a really good and competitive new small car in the form of a firmware release for the Dart will make it almost as good as your average Corolla. Stay tuned.

Jun 24, 2013permalink

Tape5

Controlling focus after taking a picture is like eating everything on the table first and vomiting what you don't like later.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

vadims

OMG... Did you ever CROP your picture?

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Yeah, like no one *ever* makes any modifications, adjustments, edits or crops to their images *after* they've taken the shot! Right. As far as I'm concerned, controlling focus after taking the shot is merely another post-processing option. Yes, it's another option for "post", which is something you do to an image *after* taking a picture. Focus, crop, straighten, de-keystone, adjust saturation, adjust contrast, clone out stuff...all just examples of things one might do to a image "later" after taking a picture. You might call it "vomiting", but the rest of us just call it post-processing or image editing.

Jun 20, 2013*permalink

MrGreen

Go back to your cave you old curmudgeon

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

I assume you are taking your pictures only with slide film?

Jun 20, 2013permalink

jaygeephoto

Yes. Photos from this unfortunate mutated monstrosity are rather bilious. This stuff should stay in the realm of surveillance equipment where it belongs.

Jun 24, 2013permalink

Peter Galbavy

Maybe I've not been keeping up with Lytro but the only thing that is going to win them and their technology market share is if they can get large content carriers like Facebook and Google to support their file format "natively".

Jun 20, 2013permalink

areichow

I assume their software spits out JPEGs - boom, they have support.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Button Pusher

30x20 pixel JPGs... awe inspiring size!

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

Uh ten times that size (though still way too small!)...

Jun 20, 2013permalink

yabokkie

there are many interesting ideas like this.
interesting at first and soon becomes yet another boring failure.
nevertheless some one has to try it. better some one tries it for us.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

igorek7

One of the smart businessmen, A.Levie recently said: We're all on the unending quest to find the space between "The world isn't ready for it yet" and "You're too late." In case of the wide field (plenoptic) camera concept, now is the moment. The technology is quickly being pushing forward by Lytro, Pelican Imaging, Heptagon, Toshiba and others, which are already offering new plenoptic devices. It's, IMHO, hardly a failure.

Jun 20, 2013*permalink

Joseph S Wisniewski

Technically, Pellican and Heptagon are synthetic aperture systems, a lot different than a "light field" (not "wide field") camera.

Pelican is very clever in that it applies a "spatial multiplicity" technique to the "cheapest of the cheap" cameras, the under a buck "dot" cameras built for $39 "disposable" phones, front cameras in $59 "no child left behind" tablets, and $9 webcams.

Lytro is the total opposite, their concept requires expensive, large high-mp sensors, and large, expensive lenses. At a time when camera phones are decimating teh p&s market, they're pushing a technology that is unfriendly to embedding in a phone.

Jun 20, 2013*permalink

yabokkie

ha, it does look like handie-talkie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-536).

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Timo Voivalin

I like the idea that if everything is in focus (and the exact point is selectable afterwards) then there is no need for complicated AF systems. That means fast, simple photography when in hurry to get THE shot.

Only if IQ would be similar to normal camera...

Jun 20, 2013*permalink

Joseph S Wisniewski

I like that idea, too.

Too bad it didn't happen. The lytro concept requires an AF system, and the relatively fast lens needed insures it's a fairly complex, slow AF system.

First time I tried it, I couldn't quite believe how slow it was.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

vadims

Arguments like "if I want the whole thing sharp, I'll do it that way" remind me those against multitasking when it just started to appear... Yes, there's a lot to dislike about Lytro as a *camera*, but attack the very ability of controlling the focus after shot? Give me a break.

You never know where things like this will end up. Space adventure movies might fail one after the other, but then there comes Star Wars -- that same genre done *right*, and all of a sudden everyone says they always knew space adventures are greatest thing since sliced bread (at least from the box office perspective).

The exact technology used by Lytro might as well be a dead end. Their form factor most definitely is :-) But that's the only game in town so far, anyway. So let's wait till (if...) the big boys roll out something of their own...

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Guidenet

Heheh. no, you give me a break. One, this seems to me a solution to a non-existing problem, controlling focus points after the fact.

Two, we aren't talking about space movies. We're talking about cameras and what may or may not be an innovation. Trying to create a silly analogy to Hollywood just goes to show how people abuse the concept of an analogy. Try looking up analogy and see what I mean. The comparison of two things does not in any way prove the comparison of two entirely different and dissimilar things. That is not the purpose of an analogy.

An analogy's purpose in this sphere is to explain a very complex subject by creating a similar but simpler subject that can be more easily understood. It's not designed to show comparisons or prove anything whatsoever between to entirely dissimilar subjects and always fails when tried. heheh Star Wars forsooth!

Jun 20, 2013permalink

vadims

> "Trying to create a silly analogy to Hollywood just goes to show how people abuse the concept of an analogy."

You're right, I should not have used an analogy -- it's just too complicated a concept for some... OK, I'll use something simpler this time: an example. Even two: autofocus and autoexposure. These two features had been mocked as unnecessary gimmicks for a "real" camera, and look at where we are today... <sigh>

(One more time: I am *not* saying post-focus is there to stay; I just find it hilarious how... err, over-confidently some people attack new technologies. On the other hand, it's such a fun to read their comments... So keep'em coming ;-)

Jun 20, 2013permalink

sunhorse

@Guidenet

As a corporate photographer, you might not see any applications for this technology. But do you seriously think there might not be a whole raft of applications outside of professional and hobby photography where this would be useful? Scientific uses come to mind. How about forensics or surveillance. I can begin to see some real-world uses for plenoptics.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Joseph S Wisniewski

Oddly enough, as someone who used to design scientific and industrial cameras, "forensics" and "surveillance" don't come to mind, at all. Surveillance is all about covertness, resolution, low light capabilities, and dynamic range. Lytro is larger, lower resolution, and poorer in dynamic range than anything else in its price class. Forensics is hyperspectral, multispectral, macro, and high resolution techniques, and again, the lightfield design is a hindrance, not a help.

So, yes, I "seriously think there might not be a whole raft of applications".

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

So none of you have ever seen anyone take out of focus pictures - no family members, no relatives, no neighbors? Impressive.

No one thinks single exposure focus stacking will be worthwhile? No one needs more DOF for close-up shots? Amazing.

If the next generation Lytro quadruples the resolution, will it still be worthless?

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Spectro

still waiting on a fire sale for these, so I can pick one up with wifi of course.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Simon97

I like the form factor of this camera because it allows for discreet shooting. Lytro should produce an "ordinary camera" version of this without the light field technology for people who are not interested in it.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Digitall

ehehe How they deceive the people! Ok, we're not selling these cameras enough, we will unlock the Wi-Fi to convince the customer to buy this brick.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

straylightrun

Rumour has it that Lytro will next announce a light field camera which will function as a paperweight. Several months after the release they might release firmware updates that unlock 'camera mode', 'expandable memory storage' and 'constant aperture' capabilities!

Jun 19, 2013permalink

AngryCorgi

Hang on folks...the WiFi was in there the whole time and just needed firmware changes to enable it. What if there is a useful camera hidden somewhere in the device too and all we need is some firmware to enable it?? Eureka!!

Jun 19, 2013permalink

peevee1

"Just"? If you use off-the-shelf hardware for your processor, having WiFi there costs you nothing. Having to develop firmware and iOS application costs good money. They did it for cameras they already have sold, instead of releasing a "new" camera. What's not to like?

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Joseph S Wisniewski

Off-the-shelf processors don't normally have WiFi transceivers. Those are complex: a mix of RF power devices and signal processing. Not to mention the filter networks and antenna that don't live on the chipset itself, and the need to design and test all that, as well as the need to get it EMC certified to the requirements of multiple agencies like the FCC.

The parts were expensive, and designing them in was expensive. They wouldn't have spent all that money if there were not plans in place from day one to have the firmware and iOS apps, so what you're seeing is simply Lytro totally blowing the schedule. Being a year late with something they obviously intended to support from day one is "what's not to like".

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

Complaining about being a year late with something you didn't know would be available and may have never been supported sounds like rotten grapes to me.

Everyone who purchased it got the features advertised, and have since gotten more features, and continue to get more features at no additional cost. And this is worth complaining about???

Sounds like the perfect Android / Samsung customer - just buy a new one for new features!

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Lance W

I will update the camera and then let it begin collecting dust again. It really is pretty useless. I am kind of amazed they are still in business. How?

Jun 19, 2013permalink

Marek Rucinski

This is an example of an interesting practice: put some hardware in the device, for which the user pays (the cost of the wifi chip was included in the price), and then increase the value proposition of the product (by enabling the feature) *after* the product has been sold (!)... or not.

I think this practice is not only dishonest, but also damaging to the client (who pays for a feature he may never see enabled in the end) and therefore should attract attention of relevant regulating bodies.

Sadly, examples of very similar practices start to pop out regularly (uncompressed hdmi in Canon 5d III, cropped hdmi output in Nikon D600), but this seems to be the boldest example to date. In case of Canon/Nikon it's difficult to prove dishonesty, because they can claim genius, and incompetence of their engineers, respectively. Situation here is different, because there are physical chips that were obviously meant to be there from the beginning, but were intentionally not enabled.

Jun 19, 2013permalink

privater

I have a Sony action camera got the latest firmware to enable 1080/60p recording, previously it only have 1080/30p.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

MarkInSF

I suspect they built this around some standard tablet chipset that included WiFi because it made sense for other reasons. They likely didn't have time to write the firmware to make the WiFi work before the camera release. I don't think they intentionally left it out for any nefarious reasons. They were under pressure to ship the camera, and that was a feature they could defer.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

dara2

I don't see the problem, as long as the feature was not advertised when it was sold.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Joseph S Wisniewski

"I suspect they built this around some standard tablet chipset that included WiFi"

WiFi is in a separate, relatively expensive chipset, and requires a lot of engineering for things like the antenna. Nobody just tosses in a transceiver and neglects it. You're looking at a simple case of someone totally blowing one of the R&D budgets (money, time, or manageability) for the firmware, apps, or EMC certification.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Marek Rucinski

> dara2

The problem is that 1) the consumer *does pay* for the "hidden" hardware, and all R&D effort necessary to get it working (which may occur after the product ships). No sane company incurs losses to itself. 2) After the product has been sold, it's totally up to the company whether they graciously enable the "hidden" feature or not. They are totally free to decide to scrap the subsequent R&D efforts. In the end, you paid for it already...

In short, the "dishonesty towards the client" part is that the client pays more for a device that could have been cheaper.

Of course what is actually interesting here, is the possibility to alter the product *after* it has been introduced to the market. This allows a company to react to what the competition does *after their product has already shipped*. Cool, isn't it?

Instead of focusing on creating genuinely better products, camera companies seem to be putting lots of efforts in devising sneaky practices of controlling sales.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

dara2

>Marek<
I completely agree, but no one forced the customer to buy the camera at the price the company asked.
They could just buy something else or keep their money if no equivalent suit them.
If given the specs sheets and the price displayed, the consumers still bought it, then maybe that consumer found the camera useful and worth the price asked (for him).

Still, if a company decides the upgrade or unlock features after the product is sold then why not? “If” I had a 7D: I would be glad with the increased raw buffers it got (no matter why they limited it at first). After all, when I bought it for 1500 usd asked by Canon, I knew the 7D had 'only' 15 frames buffers but I bought anyway. It means to me the 7D was worth the price tag, even with 15 frames buffer.

If Lytro sell their device and the consumers thinks it is over expensive (because it has no wifi, or only 6mpx or whatever) then let Lytro fails.

Well that is how I see things, and I apologize for misspelling, grammar,...)

Jun 20, 2013permalink

NetMage

It isn't dishonest to sell an item at a given price with a given set of features.

Honesty has nothing to do with cost or pricing.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Marek Rucinski

> dara2, NetMage

Let's put the (dis)honesty issue aside - you're both right of course and I'm convinced I'm right as well, and furthermore I think that there's no conflict between what we both say (perhaps I just struggle to explain it).

I think the core of what I wanted to point out is that we're witnessing an interesting practice becoming more and more widespread, a practice which demonstrates that the camera companies have wrong priorities from my point of view (these priorities may be right from their point of view though). And that, personally, I don't like this practice becoming widespread.

Jun 21, 2013permalink

reginalddwight

This is an excellent example of a solution in search of a problem.

Jun 19, 2013permalink

CameraLabTester

The greatest challenge for this invention is to find a real use for it.

Jun 19, 2013permalink

micksh6

That Marvell chip they unlocked also supports FM radio. Maybe some day iPhone users will be able to listen local radio through Lytro Wi-Fi

Jun 20, 2013permalink

Guidenet

I completely agree. I've really never seen such a useless excuse for a camera. If I want the whole thing sharp, I'll do it that way. If I want the subject sharp, and the rest not sharp, that's the way I intend it. To have it so you can change that afterwards is pure gimmicky, something that is maybe just fun for some once or twice.

Add that to the fact you have to have the image on their site or using their client side software to play the tricks, makes it even more useless. It's basically the same type thing as focus stacking we all currently can do if need be except we merge the entire stack to deepen depth of field.

Someone is in this solely to suck in unknowing investors, I think. It's probably working, too.

Jun 19, 2013permalink

NetMage

Once they add full DOF capability so you can have focus stacking in one exposure (which will work with old pictures as well), this will start to be more interesting.

Still waiting for a higher resolution model though.

Jun 20, 2013permalink

electrophoto

still pretty much useless / pointless.
and the UI is a joke.

Jun 19, 2013*permalink

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Firmware update adds watermarking and improves user interface of DxO ONE Jun 8, 2016	Avast Photo Space lets you store more photos on your iPhone Jun 17, 2016	Lytro CEO admits layoffs, promises 'breakthrough' products in 2014 Aug 12, 2013	Lytro adds 'perspective shift' and 'living filters' to light field captures Nov 16, 2012


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