Just Posted: First Impressions - Using the Nikon D4

Let's not. I want to know about the new top-end Nikon model exclusively. Not about the one that came out years ago.

Mar 10, 2012permalink

flatech

The D4 is now back for preorder on Amazon with an expected delivery date of March 20th.

http://amzn.to/x8h3PR

Mar 8, 2012permalink

Paddy MBA

I was quite interested in the replies to my previous contributions. Some were very thoughtful. Some, obviously, were not.
I spent my whole business life in marketing. Specifically, I specialized in the development of products that fit into identified market niches. No product can be everything for everyone. Camera companies tend to develop their products forwards; that is, they develop the products from a tech / design standpoint rather than identify the market first and develop the product to meet needs / opportunities (the proper way to do it). The D4 and the D800 are engineering marvels, to be sure, but that's all they are. The Nikon engineers are in love with their technology at the expense of the marketplace. Specifically, what market niche does the D800 fit into? The D4, with its speed and low light capabilities, will be great for indoor sports. But, the D800? Perhaps, the D700 is still a better option.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Caleido

I don't think Nikon is reluctant to listen to the market. That would be a very silly thing to do for such a major corporation.

The D800 has a one major USP: 39 MP on his sensor.

That is one way to enter the market. You can make or break a deal by aggressive pricing or impressive features. The D800 does both.

You say the D4 & D800 are 'only' engineering marvels. But that is exactly what the market wants: high performance & new technology. So I don't feel you have a strong point, especially if you don't see the potential of the D800 and claim de D700 is still a better option.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

AbrasiveReducer

While the camera industry is no different from any other in creating solutions looking for a problem, my experience was the Japanese were very receptive to customer wishes; the Germans less so (I worked for both) and you can see how the two approaches worked out. The manufacturer has to balance what is theoretically possible against what will sell well. The customer simply wants what they want and is convinced that things they deem essential are also essential to everybody else which is almost never the case. Sometimes, the same doctor who would would buy a microscope without questioning the price is a real tire kicker when it comes to his "profession", photography.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

jnk

Totally disagree with your assessment on the D800 - from my view - Nikon got this one right/perfectly as demonstrated by the huge pre-order that were sold out within days where even hardcore Canonites are jumping ship for this launch - however - thanks for telling us your marketing background to back up your theory - but I still totally disagree your analysis of Nikon not getting it or listening to their "customers/markets" ....!!!

Mar 8, 2012permalink

Tape5

What is the D800 good for? It allows you to examine your photographic envirionment and subjects better by showing you more pixels !!!!!! That is not cropping by the way. That is just seeing more details at a technological level that Nikon has now mastered with these high MP figures. It has everything to do with engineering signal control.
That is what D800 does. I don't need ( or more importantly want ) a camera that sees better in the dark than I can. I even have myopia. I want a camera to listen to me. The brainless Leica is loved by so many for this reason.

Mar 9, 2012permalink

Paddy MBA, I have a Ph.D. and I still say you are a sourpuss.
:-))

Mar 10, 2012*permalink

spidercrown

If the company can determine what the user need without asking them, it'll be a tremendous success to them. Just like how Apple did, they tell what the consumer need instead of the consumer tell them what they need. A quote from the book "If Henry Ford asked the consumer what they want,the answer would be a faster bicycle".
Of course, if a company do not have such people who is able to foresee the future trend, then market research is a good platform to go for, to at least bring the company up on trend.

I'm a RnD engineer, designing niche medical product. What I always see is that the marketing guy do not understand the product. They always want to have huge number of parameter to make the datasheet looks good, but do not give benefit to the user, and at worse, it sacrificing the practical benefit of the device. I prefer a product driven company than the marketing one... sad to say that.

Mar 12, 2012permalink

jnk

To me -

PHD means - Permanent Head Damaged
MBA means - Mentally Below Average

Why throw three letter words around in an camera gear forum like they mean anything - does it garner some hope of respectability?

Mar 14, 2012permalink

Shangri La

So this is more like a D3S+ with the '+' being video enhancements and ergonomics/misc changes then...

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Photogaz

Or a D3Ss as Apple would call it.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Shangri La

Or, the New D3S

Mar 8, 2012permalink

The "Brain Trust" is out in force, it seems. :-))

Mar 10, 2012permalink

Biowizard

Thinking about "Full Frame" (linked to the outmoded concept of 35mm film), here's my take ...

The sensor I'd like to see in a "Pro" DSLR body is 43mm CIRCULAR one. This would capture the ENTIRE image circle of a standard full-frame 35mm lens, with the following benefits:

1) Capture 36x24mm landscape AND 24mmx36mm portrait images SIMULTANEOUSLY on a single file

2) Eliminate the need for a second grip, shutter release, etc., because the camera would NEVER need to be tilted sideways

3) Eliminate, once and for all, sloping horizons: because a FULL 36*24 or 24*36 "level" image could be obtained without cropping

4) Provide 30mm SQUARE format, or 34.5x26 / 26x34.5 4:3/3:4 aspect ratio images, using MORE pixels than the standard 35mm "full" frame

After all: when we use binoculars or a telescope, we are perfectly happy with a circular field of view, and never experience "sloping horizons", so why not for cameras too?

You heard it here first ...

Brian

[Ed. got two dimensions wrong!]

Mar 7, 2012*permalink

S_Michaelsen

That camera would need a completely new mirrorbox with taller shutter and taller/longer mirror that would probably make trouble with flange back distance. And of course a new bigger pentaprism etc.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Richard Butler

We didn't hear it here first - the idea gets mooted regularly. To the point that we did a 'circular sensor' April Fools joke a few years back.

Also factor-in how much more it would cost to fabricate a perfect piece of silicon that big (one of the reasons full-frame cameras stay so expensive) and you'll begin to see why nobody's done it. I don't think enough people would want to pay a lot of extra money for silicon they're usually cropping away.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Biowizard

To both respondents: all we're talking about here is a "medium format" camera cut down to size, so not really a technological problem after all!

Brian

Mar 8, 2012permalink

mmilkov

The area of a 43 mm circle is 1.7x the area of a 36 mm x 24 mm rectangle. Considering that circles cannot be packed as efficiently on a wafer as rectangles, the die area of such a sensor will be more than twice larger that of a full-frame sensor. This will reduce the yield, and consequently increase the cost per die, by the same ratio.

Mar 8, 2012*permalink

cesaregal

Biowizard,
I would prefer standards as:
- 1" dia sensor
- 1.5" dia sensor
- 2" dia sensor.

Mar 8, 2012permalink

@ Biohazard: just print a square photo and cut a circle out of it. We have to make do with what we have at our disposal, after all.

Mar 10, 2012permalink

aruk5

By the way why do dslrs continue releasing cameras with the same full frame or aps-c sensors? why arent any of them going for a different sensor design such as one that mimics 65mm [of the film days] so that we can shoot true widescreen pics and videos and not anamorphed? This is not to say the sensor has to be 'full frame' 65mm but rather downscaled like they did with the aps-c design

Mar 7, 2012*permalink

Why, indeed...

Mar 10, 2012permalink

rusticus

redundant brick with 16MP (?!)

Mar 7, 2012*permalink

unotisto

Problem?

Sorry, couldn't resist. What is your point?

Mar 7, 2012permalink

ashwins

Pathetic comment...

Mar 10, 2012permalink

aruk5

In an age of miniaturisation and nano fabrications Pro dslrs continue to be bigger and heavier.

Its nice to know iso levels in cameras going up but is iso 204800 really going to be used by any pro in real life situations apart from it being a fancy gimmick?

Back lit keys and buttons for low light situations? A life saver? I had one life saver ever since my film days. Its called a torch. Anyone heard of it?

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Biowizard

Some people prefer a camera to have a little bulk. I for one, find most micro 4/3 offerings and similar, way too small for comfort. The D4 is perhaps too bulky for me, but a fair bit of that bulk is the large battery grip and second shutter release built in. And for sports photographers who keep their camera on its side for an entire event, this is an important feature.

Flimsy lightweight mini-cameras are for different people than real DSLRs.

Brian

Mar 7, 2012permalink

aruk5

Its true most pros would prefer their upgraded camera bodies to have certain design size and weight to them so that they can continue shooting the way they used to and not waste time learning to adapt the new camera.

But I still feel its time pro dslrs had a radical overhaul of their design, size and overall weight as they have been retaining this for too long since the film era.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Peiasdf

D4 is actually lighter than D3s and to get much smaller requires the law physics to change and human evolves smaller hands.

E-M5 with both grips is still too hard to grip for some people and that thing is bigger than most DSLR.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

unotisto

Let's see...

ISO 200k: Nobody will use it, but if they can offer it, why not? Thanks to that, instead of (for example), 3200, you get usable 12800.

Size and weight: Already answered.

Backlit keys: Nice to know you have 3 arms. Most people can efficently operate only the camera.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

chippy_jersey

Unfortunately (or fortuntely) you can have all the minaturisation you like, but the human hand is still the same size!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

@ aruk5: "I had one life saver ever since my film days. Its called a torch. Anyone heard of it?"

Not really. We do not use those here in North America, aruk. We have got them newfangled "flashlights" instead.

I like to use those as well on the set. Like, when I am setting up to shoot animals at night... turning on the flashlight/torch will give them ample warning to scatter.

Mar 10, 2012permalink

Antal J

First Impressions: its a pretty bulky stuff, more like a brick.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

infiniti55

Maybe a point and shoot would be more to your liking.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Antal J

Maybe :)

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Plus, Antal, you might not have the required US$6,000 to buy one right now, hmmm?

Mar 10, 2012permalink

bradleyg5

Can someone explain the AF/M switch to me? I can't imagine why such a switch would ever be necessary. For people who use full time manual focus lens and want to use the half shutter press for autofocus? That's the only usage I can think of, otherwise the switch is on the lens.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

nilux

Some Nikon AF-D lenses have manual/AF "ring switches" on the lens like the 85 f1.4 but most do not. The $100 50mm f1.8 D lens does not. In order to manually focus the 50 f1.8 D you have to switch the camera to manual to disengage the screwdriver AF motor.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

CameraLabTester

Ergonomically, the D4 lines are getting smoother curves, notably around the pentaprism, not the way Canon does it, but uniquely Nikon in shape. On a blindfold test, there will be not much to differ from the grips, but touching the pentaprism will tell it apart.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Paddy MBA

The D700 most certainly does not offer the same low light capabilities as the D4. What I am looking for is not the D700 or the present D800 but, rather, the D4 in a smaller body.
Now, having said that, I carefully looked at the D4's low light performance (on another website) at 12,800 ISO and there is an obviously large amount of noise that is not present at 6,400 ISO. I noticed the same thing with the new Canon 5D Mk 3. It seems that the 6,400 ISO barrier remains. I wonder about the new Fujifilm X-Pro1 and the new Olympus EM-5. Both claim new levels of low light performance. I certainly like the small size of the Olympus; which would solve a lot of problems for me; i.e. weight and size.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

kewlguy

Have you used D700/D3? LOL... I don't think so. So far no APS DSLR or mirrorless could compete with D700 in term of high iso noise - let alone an EM-5!! Small sensor tends to lose DR as well when the ISO gets higher. The only thing that could beat D700/D3 is D3s.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

RPJG

It's funny, just a few years ago ISO 6,400 or 12,800 wasn't even possible or usable. And now people are complaining that they can't function as photographers without that feature in a small body or cheap body or whatever. The amazing progress we've seen in recent years just isn't enough for some.

Patience Grasshopper, this functionality will come to smaller/cheaper bodies in a year or two, and then your photography will undoubtedly be transformed.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Rubenski

Read any book of a true professional and youi'll notice they never publish a picture shot with these high ISO values even when using a D3S. In fact even they prefer to use the lowest ISO possible (yes I know, there're some exceptions). And thinking a X-Pro1 or a EM-5 is going to perform even better is a joke. The shooters talking about these crazy high ISO values seem te be the ones that want to hand hold always, even in low light ans still get perfect pictures. Will never happen.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Revenant

E-M5 claims new levels of low light performance for its sensor size. I don't think Olympus meant to imply that it's comparable to a full frame camera.
Fujifilm's claims about the X-Pro1 rivalling full frame is just marketing hype, I believe. Anyway, I think that claim was about resolution, not high ISO noise performance.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Paddy MBA

I am hugely impressed with the quality of those images. However, I think that Nikon is passing on a large potential market by not offering those low light capabilities in a smaller and less expensive camera.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Dianoda

Lol, Nikon already does offer it, and it's called the D700 - low light performance of the D700 is within a stop of the D4.

And yes, the D4's IQ is impressive: judging from the samples, I'd say the ISO performance is about 3 stops better than my 7D (the D4 samples @ ISO 12800 are very similar to ISO 1600 out of the 7D).

Mar 7, 2012permalink

GOODNESS... The videos are HORRIBLE and nothing like D4 videos by FenchelJanisch on YouTube... compare to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF7Je-l5j3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FyjlwQGpuw

... and not even close to JoyRide, the D800 video.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Are you downloading the original clips? Don't go by the quality of the embedded files on the page - they're there for convenience, not for critical analysis.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Another excellent D4 video:
http://vimeo.com/35858338

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Barney, THANK YOU! I downloaded the original clips. They do look much better than clips in Vimeo, but still far worse than the polished D4 videos elsewhere. I can't believe actually that your videos are 30fps... maybe 24? Too jerky - much worse quality than expected... Can you post more video samples? Thanks a lot!!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

You have two sets of comments -- on this article title page and on the inside article pages... this is confusing!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Your ORIGINAL CLIPS are still way different... do you have an explanation? These D4 clips are much smoother, cleaner:
http://vimeo.com/35638937
http://vimeo.com/35639074

Barney, do you think these clips were shot with the on-board H.264 encoder that Nikon says does only 24 Mbps?... or captured by an external video capture device with a higher bit rate?

Mar 7, 2012permalink

... via HDMI output that provides an uncompressed video feed?

Mar 7, 2012permalink

I'll look again tomorrow - the video clips I posted were at default settings, high quality, 1920x1080, 30fps. I will shoot and upload more though (I know the ones I've posted aren't great) as soon as possible.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

D1N0

You'll be surprised what a litte music can do for a videoclip. Same clip, all of a sudden, it's a pro movie. Also I think those examples (circus) have been post processed. Video shooting is not like photography. Aim and shoot. You need to do a lot more to make it look good. Look at a film without sound and just worry about the quality, and most of the time you'll notice the imperfections.

Mar 7, 2012*permalink

Auke B van der Weide

biggest advantage of more weight and more size: less motion blur at low shutter speeds due to mass and better handhold possibilities

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Absolutic

Barnaby, finally someone echoes what I've been saying since I got my first D7000. The new AF switch makes things much slower, the old lever systems in D3/D300/D700 was super fast. Yet many have been trying to convince me that the D7000' system is faster and easier. I disagree completely, I will always take a lever/knob over a "press and scroll through mirriad of af modes" I was afraid Nikon was going to adapt that system on all their future cameras and it looks like they did.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Red G8R

Thanks for your impressions. I'm a bit disappointed that Nikon could only match the D3s performance in general with a few added features but the AF sounds amazing.
Despite this, I look forward to my D4 next week.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Robert Morris

That wouldn't be Phil with the Red Dot camera would it. In town for a little visit?

PS. Nice article thanks.

Mar 7, 2012*permalink

Phil? Not sure what you mean - the cameras in the picture are part of my shamefully large collection of dusty old film SLRs (and neither of them is a Red Dot model).

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Absolutic

By the way, Whatever happened to Phil? You guys should do a feature on the founder of this site, what he is doing.... we have not heard from him in years!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

highwave

Don't mean to butt in but I think he meant DSC_4753 in the gallery

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Robert Morris

One of the sample pictures # DSC_5336 or DSC_4753 has a slight resemblance I think. Yea, what is he up to now any way.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

ssh33

Good stuff, thank you!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

PicOne

So.. this is I think the 4th News article relating to the D4 since it was announced.. and as far as I know its still on pre-order. What devotion!

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Richard Butler

There's a lot of interest in this camera. As a result, we'll provide as much information as we can.

We get criticised if there's a long gap before our review (which there always will be), and we get criticised if we provide things to read in the meantime.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Also, this is something like 3,000 words of original content plus 40+ image samples. It's not a 'news article' for the sake of it.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

the great fiction

This is the latest flagship camera from a company that is one of the top choices of professional and non-professional photographers. I would hope they spend a lot of time exploring it as well as the D800, 5D Mk II, and 1D X.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

marike6

So skip over it and let the rest of us read it. It's not like DPR is a subscription service, but users are awfully demanding anyway.

Thanks for the article.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

PicOne

If you all think so, fine by me. For non news articles, shouldn't these pieces maybe put on the specific camera info page with links.

FYI from homepage; isn't the Elph 510 more deserving? :-)
Canon EOS 5D Mark III26.8%
Lytro Light Field 16GB4.7%
Nikon D8004.2%
Samsung NX2002.5%
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX12.4%
Canon ELPH 510 HS (IXUS 1100 HS)2.2%
Canon PowerShot G1 X2.1%
Canon EOS 5D Mark II1.9%
Sony Alpha NEX-71.8%
Fujifilm X-Pro11.8%

Cameras receiving the most clicks in reviews and specs in the last five days. "

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Goreyo

There have been three articles regarding the 5DmIII essentially covering the same things as the D4 articles. Whats your issue?

Mar 7, 2012permalink

PicOne

No issue really. The 5dIII though seems to be worthy (based on DPRs click-thru list) of continued attention; as would the D800. The $6K D4 though?

Maybe its just the number of articles for one camera, and the fact the camera is in preorder stage.. If in fact DPR has a production model, then perhaps delay the separate ISO, then Hands-On, etc.. split up parcels; wait a few more days and publish the entire review.

Mar 7, 2012permalink

Paul Szilard

Thanks DPREVIEW and Barney for your article. Majority of stuff on the web so far, have been speculative and regurgulative whereas you have good original content and sample images. I am moving up from a D700 to a D4 and am looking forward to faster and more accurate operation. I am realistic and happy with Nikon's choices in designing the D4.

Now I hope to get down to using it, once it arrives, rather than just talking about it!

Mar 7, 2012permalink