Hands-on: What you need to know about the new Leica SL2

The reasons provided by Rob are also not pro enough for me. ;)

there no “pro” in the name , like the X-Pro 3 or the S5 Pro.

can’t be pro if you don’t call it pro.

yeah, but milled in CHina, under Panasonic supervision

That it is made by Panasonic do not make it a Panasonic clone.

ouch

Photoman:

Unless you care about using M lenses.

But seeing obvious differences isn't your thing.

D850 is weather-sealed (=IP52 or similar) but not waterproof (= IP54). But the SL2 is, that means on par with D5. Sorry, no, I checked right now and the D5 seems to be only weather-sealed.
But the Canon 1Dx is probably water-proof.

Can't argue the video but I'd still make the same statement and trade the D850 for a Z7, a Sony, or FujiFilm. The optics will be very nice indeed but there isn't much choice and the contrast-detect auto-focus limits the number of scenarios the SL can capture a sharp image regardless of lens.

For me, the SL is not particularly lust-worthy nor as practical as cheaper options making it somewhat of an oddball. The former of course been very subjective - you guys might love it.

Waterproofing is nice and all but I'd sooner drop a D850/D5 than an SL. Sadly, dropping is what I do.

Not just basketball - but my own kids who move around like hummingbirds so it won't only suffer during specialty scenarios - especially when working with shallow-depths-of-field and insanely demanding resolution.

It will be alright at landscapes and scripted portraiture but if I was buying a Leica, it wouldn't be this and if I was buying an expensive high-res body, it wouldn't be this hence the odd positioning of this product - for me at least.

It sounds like its for you though - good luck with the pre-order.

what was it that didnt work?

Rebadging Sony apsc cameras.

there's a difference between those two situations

kristof93:

"All you need to know is that it's a reskinned S1R. Didn't work for Hasselblad, let's see if Leica users are more gullible."

Like many, who've posted this comment, you seem to forget the SonyBlads were 4X the price of the Sonys.

Oh, and specific to this Leica: If you care about using M lenses you pick the SL2 over the S1R.

So like many who pronounce Leica, you do so from position of less than low information.

all the stuff marketed as Leica since the 1960 not worth much. The M5 to be had for 1000 USD

rbach44:

The SL is quite comfortable to hold.

It's not comfortable on one's hip.

It's referring to selectable points

TwoMetre:

Hasselblad uses SD cards.

So does the Sony A9 II, which I guess is a bit "cheaper".

Hasselblad shoots at something like 0.7 FPS though. :-)

What? Lenses are the only thing that Leica knows how to make better than (most of) the other manufacturers. I don't desire any Leica camera body . But their APO-Summicron-SL 35mm f/2 has become my dream since I saw its MTF. Vastly superior to any other AF 35mm in the market. The build quality is also pretty good.

@HowaboutRAW, I didn't say Leica bodies are bad. In general I even like their "simplicity", but one couldn't say that they are objectively better than those of the other manufacturers. One possible exception that just came to my mind is the Leica X-U, which has an outdated sensor, but is waterproof and shockproof (to some extent). I can even say that, if the price of the SL2 was around 4k USD, I would buy it (instead of 3k USD for the S1R), but I can't say that it's better than the Panasonic, it's all very subjective. I even know people who like Sony tiny bodies.

Now with the lenses it's a different story. When it comes to optical performance, at least in their APO-Summicron-SL series, Leica is above everyone else (I'm talking about AF lenses, so Otus and Voiglander APO-Lanthar don't count). And that is not subjective.

Sigma Art 40mm is one exception to what I said above. But it's so giant and heavy that I don't want it.

Wilight:

The XU has been discontinued.

The SL lenses aren't Leica's best.

The Panasonic L 50mm f/1.4 is optically better than the Leica SL 50m f/1.4. This is not true of the Panasonic L zooms that have released as of early Nov 2019.

K e n n:

Have you shot samples with the X1D's AF?

If you are talking about GF lenses for Fuji GFX Medium Format.... Of yes they do!
That's no slight on Leica at all. But those Fuji MF lenses are amazing, as is Leica glass of course.

Greg:

No, those GF lenses don't. Setting aside the 2 exceptions I mention: They don't have the colour of the Leica SL lenses, or many Sony GM lenses either.

Those Fuji GF lenses are sharp. But that's hardly the only important quality of very good lenses.

Fuji can work it out. Sony did. (And Nikon, Sigma, and Canon are starting to.)

Greg:

No, the Leica SL lenses (glass) is not the best on the planet. Leica has better lenses for the S and M systems. Zeiss has better lenses too.

"The Fuji GFX glass that resolves extremely impressively at 100MP is certainly world-class also."

Again: Resolving power (AKA sharpness) is NOT the only important quality of very good lenses.

The Leica Q2 has just a very good lens, not an astounding one, and that's allowing for the distortion and corner games.

"But if you think Sony glass is better than Fuji (either XF or GF) glass you are fooling yourself."

Some Sony GM lenses are better than what Fuji offers for the GF series and X series.

"High-end Canon and Nikon glass is damn good too."

This is really only true in the last 18 months. (There's one $6000 Nikon exception that's been out for some years though.)

"But Fuji glass for GFX? It's Numero Uno!"

Not if you care about colour.

People who buy at Leica stores are not comparison shopping on the Internet.

@Veselin Gramatikov - Wrong. They are not "exactly the same." There are many differences, from brand, to design, to layout, to aesthetics, to controls, to price, to weight. There are plenty of wealthy people in the world who will buy the Leica over the Panasonic for the Leica name alone. For them, money is no object.

VG:

There's the M lens use factor that makes the bodies significantly different if you shoot M lenses, which many Leica owners do.

So no, the bodies are NOT exactly the same.

The support for almost all Leica lenses (M, R, S, PL). And the speed. (The SL2 is much faster at 20 frames/s).
And its the first Leica with IBIS. (only when comparing to other Leica cameras)

Yes for some Leica users... it`s good haha :) 6000$ for 2500$ camera. Thank you.

Oh, sure, let's forget the price of scale and just make some numbers up. Hilarious.

VG:

No, it has significantly different set of sensor microlenses than the Panasonic S1R.

That special engineering, and manufacturing, costs extra money.

It's also significantly lighter than the S1R. That costs extra engineering and manufacturing monies too.

It's menu system is much better than the Panasonic's, and the Panasonic's is good. That coding, and designing, also costs extra monies.

These days nobody forgets the price even Leica.

VG:

So zero acknowledgement of the different sensor microlenses and the fact that it's lighter than the S1R.

Menus?

VG, I'm not sure what you're going on about, but Leica cannot produce at Sony cost level. Ever. Multiple other camera manufacturers can't either. Hence their stuff is significantly more expensive, especially in a shrinking market taht no longer booms, like the camera market.

I am going on that Leica camera brand had no logical reason to exist as digital cameras. Except we live in capitalism.

VG:

"I am going on that Leica camera brand had no logical reason to exist as digital cameras. "

Shoot a digital M. And/or shoot very good M lenses on an APSC MILC body, and there is your reason. Avoid the very first iteration of the M8.

Try and SL V1, with the big Leica SL zoom, and FW 2.0 or later; that's another reason. Put M lenses, of any brand, on that body.

Try any of the S bodies. Several more reasons.

XU, discontinued, but still the only APSC tough digital camera ever shipped as of late 2019.

You were saying?

Strait logic...why buy 6000$ camera when you can buy same for 2500$ and use same lenses.

Why you expect this to show up with tourists from (and then on top from just one country) is not clear to me. This is in no way aiming for that buyer. In my experience as well, tourists these days prefer smartphones. Hardly anybody carries something with the size and/or weight of an DSLR.

Well, as a Chinese myself... I believe most Chinese will be like... never heard of this camera. Most people here who don't know much about photography, when they wanna buy a serious camera, their first choice would be Canon haha.

Those Chinese who travel abroad are the richer ones, they are not the majority I've mentioned above though.

Hugo.... Haha.... That's what I said about Fuji GF lenses and now I'm addicted to them. 😎

Greg, I'd seriously love one but I had a go in a shop and I knew it would be too heavy and I'd stop carrying it around. I'm locked into the quandary of having enough gear to get what I want on a day out but not breaking my back carting it around.

I had a go on an SL too and would have purchased if the price included a Sherpa or two...

Hey Hugo, I know what you mean. I left FF Canon DSLRs and L glass for Fuji APSC. Then I went all the way back up to DSLR size with GFX. We all want less load, but GFX has caused me to go the other direction in regard to load. Actually, the GFX 50r with the 45 prime is not too bad. But anyway, I sure am liking my Leica Q2! And I like reading about this new Leica SL2. I think the guys who actually buy this SL2 and an arsenal of those great lenses might even be crazier than me when it comes to camera gear. 🤠
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Small addition. Since it accepts Leica M lens, there are already very small lenses made. Its just question if user likes manual focus or not.

You've been working at McDonalds too long. Your envy is ugly.

I mean, can you really see it during live view shooting? It has the full resolution during playback when it would be noticeable for things like checking focus; I wonder if it automatically switches from 3.7 to 5.7 if you have image review turned on.

@DarnGoodPhotos

I don't know how the Leica handles it, but for most cameras, it is a fluent switch. And mostly you don't notice it, the EVF looks fine and just slightly drops in resolution when you press the AF-on button for example.
But it really depends on the camera what actions or modes force a resolution drop and how big that resolution drop is. On some it's minimal on others more visible. Manufacturers sadly don't state numbers for this

What is the alternative ? Manufacturers have to not lie with the resolution of their EVF.
Why still lure the customers with MegaDots ? Do you ever bought a LCD monitor claiming they have 3x more "dots" than FHD or UHD rez ?

Second point : you don't see the drop, I see it. & many here are able to see it. Claiming it is not heavily noticeable is far from being the right move.

Of course, it is nice to have a better resolution when pixelpeeping after shot, but sorry, EVF are still far from being nice enough for MY own requirement.

you can live with sub panel video feeds, fine for your soul.
I cannot !

But please, don't claim it is nice enough or have zero impact on the UXP.
And again, of course a higher resolution EVF panel is a better thing than a lower one, but I far prefer a consistent experience than a varying one.
So, EVF still have a long path to go before it is really an excellent experience.

I don't know if leica is doing it right, hope for the price but I won't bet on it!

And to add a request to all those influencers falling in love with that MILC manufacturer or that other one, why are they usually omiting to really tell the truth about the EVF behaviour ?

Usually they can distinguish the loss of resolution between a 1200USD lens versus à 2800 one, but suddendly, a noticeable effect get zero words about it !

Seriously, it is the first thing that pop to your eyes when you look into an EVF.

So, in order to have a proper EVF experience, 120Hz must be mandatory in a first point. Then the liveview video feed have to be available at the EVF panel native resolution, period !
All other tricks are just tricks, to fool the customer.

If you cannot sustain such requirements, stop with the Millions photosites race (we are still waiting for real RGB photosites and not thoses silly tricks of 4 photos with 1 pixel move merged into one photo).

You will spit on actual EVF tricks when you will get use to an always 120Hz real FHD panel.

"You will spit on actual EVF tricks when you will get use to an always 120Hz real FHD panel."

You should buy one of those.

I will, when we will have them.

In the meantime, I let betatesters play with the toys they will love to have in a few years from now, whereas they were swearing how amazing and revolutionary those bodies were.

@Gon0S
You didn't understand me. Of course, I want an EVF that has everything all the time. And of course, I want manufacturers to be more transparent.

But the perfect EVF is just not possible yet. And if I have the choice between:
a) low resolution, low framerate, consistent experience
b) high resolution, high framerate, variable experience
I will always choose option b.

Also " you don't see the drop, I see it. & many here are able to see it."
Where did I say I don't see it? I said the amount of drop depends on the camera model and mode the camera is in. So obviously sometimes it is not very visible and sometimes it is very visible. But that depends on 100% of the implementation in each body. You cannot generally say how visible it is for all cameras.

Given how Leica FW works, it would be worth it. They do know how to design such things.