Apple Raw update brings support for 8 cameras, including Sony A99

There are no color interpolation on the mm raw files, so they should be easier to provide good support for compared to cameras with color sensors.

I suspect the person complaining about the 'Fusion' drive has misunderstood how it works, if he's saying he got one a year ago - a Seagate Momentus XT, yes? Not the same thing.

meanwhile:

Sorry AVCHD files do not play on a Mac. Nor MP2s. I expended a good bit of effort on the AVCHD thing a few months ago. But given your insistence I will retest the 3 types of AVCHD files that I have. And I'll recheck MP2s. I'd be happy to be wrong, but don't think I am.

Steve Ives:

How is a fusion drive not like a Seagate Momentus? Is it that the fusion drive has a bit more SSD space?

A hybrid drive uses an SSD to speed up performance, but the data is stored on the HDD.
A fusion drive combines an SSD and an HDD into one volume, with the most often accessed files stored on the faster SSD.

Revenant,

So the SSD on a fusion drive is simply ram, why not just buy more ram. Frankly I want frequently used programs on the faster SSD.

Meanwhile:

Well I checked, and I was wrong about MP2s; with the latest Quicktime, they work fine. Good.

Now however, I am completely right about AVCHD files. I tried 3 different types of AVCHD files and none will open natively on a new iMac. This is a huge failure on the part of Apple.

And in fact your assertion above is an example of spreading mis-information about Macs. Perhaps you mean that you can open AVCHD files with FinalCut and then use FinalCut to turn them into MP2s, MP4s, or MOVs. That I never disputed.

Meanwhile redux,

Since the 3 AVCHD files which failed to play on a Mac were all from Panasonic cameras, I tired AVCHD files from two Sony video cameras, and they failed to open on the newest Mac too.

This Apple failure is a big deal.

Revenant:

I just overheard an Apple Store employee say that in fact the SSD part of the fusion drive holds the OS and other important programs, so that's just like a Seagate Hybrid. (Though yes the fusion drive is bigger and has a good big more SSD capacity than my Seagate Hybrid which has 20GB of SSD and about 440GB of platter storage.)

The AVCHD files from my Sony Alpha A35 work just fine here, on 10.8.2. Which OS version are you on?

Meanwhile:

You've confirmed my point: Macs don't play AVCHD files natively and one needs to install other software to get at AVCHD files on a Mac. I already specifically said I wasn't commenting on conversion with FinalCut or iMovie and the same applies to some functionality added with iPhoto, etc.

Windows7, without the addition of other software, will play AVCHD files, unlike Mac. The latest Realplayer on Windows7 will do the same. Quicktime on Windows 7 won't.

I tried the AVCHD files on a new iMac (the one released on Friday also tried a 13" Retina) and it didn't play any AVCHD. It had no problem with high-def MP4s from a Samsung NX20.

I tried mightily to make a new Mac play AVCHD files about 8 months ago and I just couldn't, so I have looked into this problem.

In this thread I was never commenting on Aperture or iPhoto, I was making a point about Macs in general and AVCHD files, and that point remains completely valid.

Thanks for working out the ostensible contradiction.

meanwhile:

No, I made a comment about Macs, not Aperture, who cares what the subject of the thread is about. By that logic no one would say anything about Photoshop here or about a Windows computer.

Because you don't know what the term "natively" means, I'll explain it. It means that the Mac OS will not play AVCHD files without the addition of specialized player software. Who cares that this feature was added to iPhoto 6 months ago; today in late 2012 Macs still can't play AVCHD files without extra work.

That you have confirmed that it's possible with additional inexpensive software is a nice piece of information but also tells me that Apple is being stupid and that it would be easy to get a Mac to natively play AVCHD files with a free update to Quicktime.

If you'd simply said at the beginning that 10 bucks worth of iPhoto makes a Mac AVCHD capable, you'd have strengthened your case. But you didn't

Again: Thank you for confirming my point.

Your point was:
"Um, you do realize that you can't play (yes that's simply play) AVCHD video files on a Mac."

Which is completely and utterly false. And yes, I do understand what "natively" means. I am using no special player software, no external app - Quicktime Player comes with the OS. I opened the file from the Finder, directly from the SD card in the camera. Can't get much more native than that.

The point is - AVCHD files work without any problems on Macs, just not yours apparently.

"specialized player software"

Did you even look at the screenshot I posted above, directly from Quicktime Player? It's not specialized player software, it comes with the OS.

Just to be clear, I've been playing AVCHD files on Macs since 2010. Admittedly I did have to download some free software to do so but since it took me about 15 minutes to work that out and do it I was OK...

@HowaboutRAW - I believe the Apple 'Fusion' drive uses a separate SSD and HDD, although the 2 devices are seen as one logical volume to the OS. (If you have a 250Gb SSD and 1Tb Hd, the OS sees a 1.25Tb volume). OS X will dynamically move data between the 2 depending upon how often it's accessed.

So it's like the Momentus XT (of which I have recently upgraded to one in my MBP and very nice it is too) on steroids.

meanwhile,

Sorry you must have added some piece of software that you've neglected to mention or someone else installed it. Because Quicktime on Macs does not simply open AVCHD files, and I'm starting to check Macs with Aperture, iMovie and iPhoto installed and those Macs fail to open AVCHD files too.

Months ago I tried Realplayer for Mac with an AVCHD file and it failed too, though Realplayer for Windows played AVCHD files by then.

sgoldswo--

Thank you. That's my basic point. Do you happen to remember the name of the software you used to add this feature to your Mac? (Because when I search the terms "Mac AVCHD" at Majorgeeks all I get is results for converters.)

meanwhile:

Here's an Ehow link, updated in April 2012, and the fact that Macs don't play AVCHD files is well noted.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5847325_play-mts_m2ts-video-mac-quicktime.html

Steve Ives:

So you mean with the fusion drive the drives are physically in separate boxes unlike the Seagate hybrid?

I liked the speed of my Seagate hybrid drive, but drive health software (HD sentinel) pretty much immediately found two transfer errors at startup--only ever two errors. So I went back to a platter drive; I regularly need more than a 500GB drive for my laptop. The hybrid is a back up with programs but very few personal files on it.

I see that Sandisk has a 480GB SATA laptop drive for about $400. If I have the money, I may try it in the new year. But there's still the fact that platters can take many more read/write cycles than SSD drives.

@HowaboutRAW - yes. I'm pretty sure it's 2 separate, physical drives. Maore here: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/apple-fusion-drive-wait-what-how-does-this-work/

Steve Ives--

It will be interesting to see if iFixit does a tear down of one of the new iMacs with a fusion drive.

"Here's an Ehow link, updated in April 2012"

Now I now you aren't bothering to read anything I'm writing, and your only purpose is either to spread misinformation, or just have an argument. Multiples times, I've said the AVCHD support was released in JUNE. Why bring up an external article from 3 months before that?

Macs now play AVCHD videos without any problems (and without the need to add third party software to do it - which still doesn't mean they couldn't before, they could with those programs), you are wrong. They do not need to be converted to another format, they work natively, within the OS.

Googled AVCHD Sample Video.

Went to the first result: http://www.shedworx.com/shedworx-samples

Downloaded the first clip then opened and played it in Quicktime Player.

Conclusion: AVCHD supported in Mac OS 10.8.

Dr Chandra-

I downloaded the snowboarding video from that linked list, and it most certainly does not play on a Mac running OS 10.8.2.

Conclusion: OS 10.8.2 does not play AVCHD files.

meanwhile,

I did a further check on a Mac running 10.8.2. From a SDHC card, this Mac has no trouble with MP4 video, or some still raw files, nor some tiffs. I even moved AVHCD files from the same SDHC card to the Mac's internal hard drive and the Mac still wouldn't play AVCHD.

Clearly there is something that has been done to your Mac to make it natively play AVCHD files. No big deal, the big deal is that you, amongst many, don't know what that system tweak is. Final Cut Pro 10.006 won't import the file either. So clearly some form of conversion needs to done with AVCHD files on a Mac.

I have 2 avchd cameras. Files from both play on my mac, I did not installed codecs, I don't have any editing software or codecs installed at the moment. The file from the link also play in Quicktime natively.

You must really hate macs, because all this isn't important anyway. People on macs usually don't use quicktime, but VLC or Movist, just like people on Windows.

"So clearly some form of conversion needs to done with AVCHD files on a Mac."

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Perhaps, just perhaps, there are different kinds of AVCHD files?

Before we argue about it pointlessly any more, perhaps looking at was does and doesn't work would be prudent?

The AVCHD files I have produced and used work for me on my Mac without any conversion at all. BUT, they are not MTS files - which don't seem to work here (at least the two I downloaded from that site above). That said, it could be a simple configuration issue, so please let me look into it further before sinking to "I told you so".

AVCHD does work on Mac, I use AVCHD files here directly, so I know they work (without conversion) - but that may be qualified to particular types of AVCHD files. I don't know yet.

Here too:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3775?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Below are the media formats and codecs that QuickTime Player can play back in Mac OS X v10.6.x or later:

AVCHD (OS X Mountain Lion only)

OK, here's how it looks like the situation is. Macs running 10.8.x can play (yes, natively) AVCHD files if they contain all of the folder structure (/PRIVATE/AVCHD/BDMV/STREAM, etc).

For example, I downloaded this sample: http://hownowvideo.com/downloads/panasonic_AG-HMC150.zip
and it played without any problems - and should for you too How (just double click on PRIVATE and it should play in QT Player). The AVCHD files from my Sony A35 have this structure too, and work directly in QT Player.

If you just have the .mts stream file by itself, that will not play directly, and will have to be converted before use.

You can rebuild the index in a second, no need to convert

meanwhile:

That idea of trying to copy the whole Private Folder seems interesting; I'll try it.

However that's not exactly native playback of an MTS file. With Windows 7 I insert the SD card open Private ... Stream etc then see say 3 or 4 MTS(AVCHD) files. Double click each to playback the MTS file so I can discover which one I want to copy. Then I copy the ones I want to a folder like say "Morning Dec 4th 2012". (Yes I know that Adobe Bridge can preview MTS files too.)

Assuming your description of the Mac system is accurate, and I will check once I have a camera card, the Mac system is still not exactly native playback, and much more importantly the Mac system throws up all sorts of stupid barriers to playback. With Windows one can just copy the files one needs and then rename them, sort them and play them back and edit with the appropriate software.

d3xmeister:

No I don't hate Macs, unlike Windows 7 computers Macs mostly don't crash. However Macs need to simply open MTS files, which is something that Windows has done for some years. Final Cut should also simply import them--again not a problem with Adobe Premiere 5 on Windows 7.

You can think of the Mac failure v Windows as right click. Mac ignored right click for years and that was stupid. (Yes I know about cntrl click--so back then there was the work around.)

I'll try the private folder trick suggested by Meanwhile above, but that's not exactly native playback of AVCHD files.

Oh, yes, Macs make hard drive (and battery in the case of laptops) removal far too difficult. Having clones of one's hard drive, or SSD, is a really good idea and Mac makes that kind of thing difficult. Not the cloning, the swapping of cloned drives. So that's another big Mac failure. And no I am not talking about TimeMachine.

d3xmeister:

You missed where I acknowledged being wrong about MP2s on a Mac.

However: the new Macs I've tried don't play AVCHD files, no problem with high-def MP4s. I'm bothered by this failure of Apple's and am going to put even more effort into trying to get AVCHD files to play on a Mac, sans conversion.

Why do they work on mine, natively ?

d3xmeister:

There is answer in the thread above. Macs will play AVCHD(aka MTS) files with some additional files, also from the camera. Looks like one needs the entire Private Folder from the camera's flash card. Glad there's the work around, still wouldn't call it native playback.

If I hand you a disc with a folder full of PDFs you don't need any software other than a PDF reader to view the PDFs on a Windows computer or a Mac. On a Windows 7 computer the same is true if I give you a disc or card with a number of MTS files on it--they play without trouble. On the other hand Mac makes things stupid and difficult and one needs obscured extra files to view AVCHD files on a Mac.

With Windows7 one can simply copy and paste the MTS files one wants, no extra files or folders, or Mac importation software which knows to copy those files needless to a Windows computer.

Win7 is simpler and easier.

"Macs will play AVCHD(aka MTS) files with some additional files, also from the camera. Looks like one needs the entire Private Folder from the camera's flash card. Glad there's the work around, still wouldn't call it native playback."

How, you are wrong here. It's time to move on. An MTS file does not an AVCHD file make. The spec of the AVCHD file includes "some additional files". A properly formed AVCHD file, includes those things. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AVCHD_actual_file_structure.svg

Your PDF analogy is flawed, it's more akin to: if you hand someone a bunch of JPEG files that you had in a PDF file, but don't give them the PDF file itself. It's not the same thing, you haven't given them the whole file.

Do I wish that there was direct support for playing .mts stream files (which is outside the AVCHD spec)? Sure. Does that amount to not having native AVCHD support? No.

meanwhile:

On a Win 7 computer Windows sees MTS files from a Sony camera as AVCHD. And on the same Win 7 computer WinMedia Player sees MTS files from Panasonics as AVCHDs.

Also: I copied all of the 660MB Private Folder from my Panasonic video camera to my Windows C drive. First I double clicked the Private Folder, and well, video did not play. As expected: Right clicking didn't give me a WinMedia Player playback of the folder contents option either.

Then I deleted all of the MTS files from the Private/Stream Folder; I right clicked Private, selected Properties, and Windows told me that the Private Folder was now about 120kb in size. I'm pretty sure of the fact that a 120kb isn't really a part of the video or audio, and that those KBs are used by Mac for playback. So Apple is being dumb about AVCHD playback and is making newish video camera users' life difficult.

Still glad the silly work-around does the trick, maybe when Final Cut opens AVCHD files Macs will too.

I just found that Smart Converter is a nice free tool to do the job too (opening .mts files). Simply select Other > Quicktime for the conversion and you'll get a quickly wrapped file with no video conversion (so no quality loss) and directly openable in pretty much anything.

http://www.shedworx.com/smartconverter

You still likely wouldn't call that native, but given that it's free and the video isn't converted it's close enough for me. Given that it's not really very long since Win added AVCHD support themselves, it likely won't be long before it's supported on Macs too. Either way, it's not actually needed in the field with the available options for 99.9% of files, so it's just semantics really.