Just Posted: Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIS Review

Here is a more detailed price comparison.

The sweet spot indeed is K5II for 800 USD versus D7100 for 1200 USD. In my experience the in body shake reduction more than offsets in image quality the jump from 16 MP to 24 MP. Especially when considering that most lenses in the Nikon product line do not resolve even close to 24 MP ( I am suspecting same goes in Pentax lens line, but good they do not have the 24 MP sensor :-) )

All prices in USD for Body without lens:
BH Photo Video:
* 7100: 1200 USD
* K5IIs: 1100 USD
* K5II: 1000 USD

Amazon:
* 7100: 1200 USD
* K5IIs: 1000 USD
* K5II: 800 USD

@ scunning 14. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Especially considering that dpreview stresses scoring is done in comparison to nowadays available competition and nowadays pricing!

You're right, that's an important feature we should have mentioned, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Added. (Breathe.)

@ Class A
Thank you so much to bring this to attention!

@ Kapten Kadok ( Movie Button )
For people shooting planned Video, lack of Movie Button is irrelevant. For who shoots Video on the Street or Family, where default is still but want to catch the serendipitous moment on movie when it unfolds, the lack of the Movie Button make you miss this shot. So it is indeed a con. I agree with you assessment that it is less of a con than Shake Reduction is big Pros. Shawn has fixed this. I agree all your assessment, but could you write more friendly ?

@ fisherman_lol
You are shooting yourself into the foot! You are actually the master of dpr together with every single reader. dpReview's focus on which camera receives a high priority is based on how many clicks a review receives. So go out and spread the word for more people to read Reviews on Pentax. And you can see you have been mistaken. Shawn added SR to the review. I believe an apology is in order!

In addition to lack of in-body stabilization and a bulky size for an APSC camera, the D7100 also loses to the K5 II in low light performance that is important to most photographers. So the D7100 got a score of 85 because it have two card slots, more megapixels and a movie button?

@Shawn,

thank you very much for adding the in-body stabilisation to the list of "Pros". That's fantastic!

I very much appreciate you taking the time to do this.

@ aviceananw
The 7100 has the 24 MP going for them. Personally to me, this is a con and not a pros, due to larger file size, slower shot to shot rate, shorter burst buffer and most importantly, it is likely it uses that 24 MP sensor from Sony which paired with wide angle lenses has actually less resolution in the image as the same lens with 16 MP sensor.

But dpreview is unfortunately very, very heavy on Resolution and much less considerate to handling. And frankly, so are most of it's readers.

So considering this weighting, the dpReview score is consistent.

I think what the community needs to do is show more that in these days handling is way more important than minute details in sensors. Handling makes the difference if you get the shot or not. All DSLR today have a good enough sensor. So I think the blame of this weighting should also go to the readers of dpReview who focus so much on resolution.

And please note that Shawn weighted handling already more than others on dpreview.

I feel very strongly that for people who like shooting creatively, the Pentax System has a quality to help the creative process, which is standing out compared to other camera systems. I like to find a way to capture this quality and make it transparent to fellow photographers. I am curious to know if anybody would like to join this project ?

1) I have a K-30, maybe somebody can add the K5 part?

2) How about if I write the Article here in dpReview and anything missing or not agreeable can be posted as comment and I re-write the Article accordingly ?

Any interest in such Article at all ? Let me know.

I admire your passion for Pentax HubertChen! I look forward to reading anything you write about the K5. I own a Pentax K-R from a couple years back that I still love! Right now, I am shooting with the K-01 which is such an underrated and awesome brick of a camera!!! Lots of fun. I want to purchase either a K-5IIs in the coming days or I might go a whole other way and buy a Pentax Q with all the lenses and just get back to having fun with photography. All this caring about pixels counts and minor differences in this and that is bogging me down. Again, I look forward to seeing what you might put out there, especially about the K-5. Thanks!

@HubertChen.

I've recently purchased a K01 with the 40mm DA XS pancake lens. The purchase came after 3 years of shooting with my beloved K200D, which now has over 35,000 actuations. I have used it in snow, sleet, and rain.
The k200D was AHEAD of its time, and therefore Pentax literally dropped the ball on the camera and had to discontinue it. I will not part with this 5 year old camera because I have compared the images from k01 with the k200d and although I noticed some improvement in detail, most importantly High ISO noise control, the overall difference is minimal.

I applaud Pentax for majorly updating the K200D, because this is essentially what the k30 is, minus the top LCD screen. :)

But, why did I buy a K01? Simply put, you can not get a body + pancake lens combo for $339 :-)
This camera has a lot of quirks, and it definitely was not worth it's original price of $749.
-One does not have full manual control with M42 lens
-Sound gain level is too prominent when recording.

-It does not record +30Mbps (some blocky artifacts + jello effects)
-Digital SR crops sensor during recording
-Can not output true HD on monitor, one can only use VGA connection to output live recording to monitor.

Granted, all the negatives are only on video mode which can easily be solved with minor tweaks and cheap DIY hacks.
The K01 excels in stills, there have actually been some comparison between the K5 and k01, which most members in pentax forum speculating the K01 images look "sharper" because it has a much thinner anti aliasing than the k5.

I have to agree, Pentax has some sort of mojo that I haven't found in any of the other digital cameras I've shot with. (Although I do think a good bit of that mojo comes with the 31/43/77 ltd lenses).

Apparently Amazon don't sell Pentax ;-p

I have a K-5, K-01 and 2x D800E's and the K-5 and the K-01 are so much more fun to shoot.

20 Points that Make a Pentax Camera Fun. (K-5 and K-01)

1. Awesome build quality. K-5 is Stainless Steel chassis covered with a Magnesium Alloy shell and weather sealed. K-01, whilst not being WR, is made from Aluminium and feels like quality in the hand. Especially with a LTD lens attached.

2. Better ergonomics (i.e ISO button in the 'right' place for one thing and GREEN button) so you can shoot them with one hand tied behind your back. Raw/FX button is also programable for instant access to certain features.

3. P mode on the K-5 is a master stroke. Program-Line allows selection of Auto, Normal (default auto), Hi-Speed priority (shutter), DOF priority (deep), DOF priority (Shallow) and MTF (picks the sharpest lens setting for the Pentax lens connected)

4. Awesome dynamic range

5. Electronic Levels always visible in the VF

6. Horizon (auto) and Composition Correction (manual via Live View)

7. Focus Confirmation beep AND illuminated Focus Point in field of View of VF (unlike my D800E which has that rangefinder display at the bottom of the screen thus requiring eyes to look away from the subject and no beep when a manual focus lens is connected).

8. Whisper quiet shutter (K-5) whereas my Nikons sound like someone slamming a gate shut.

9. User Pixel Mapping utility.

10. Any old MANUAL lens has IBIS (SR or VR)

11. Focus Peaking on K-01

12. Hardware buttons for all major regular functions accessible via the thumb or a real switch/button. e.g. K-5 has an extra position for the focus mode selector (AF-S, AF-C and AF-M modes) which are accessed via a lever in exactly the same spot as my D800E (AF and AM modes with button) only you don't need to mess around with dials after moving the lever, pressing the focus select button like the D800 (has more AF modes though).
13. K-5 Grip has ALL major controls unlike the D800E grip which requires remapping the AF button for DOF etc.

14. On/Off lever surrounding the Shutter button is also a DOF Preview button on the K-5, way better than searching for the traditionally placed button on the D800E.. made worse if you swapped the Function button and Preview button on the D800E for some reason.

15. K-5 "P" or Hyper Program Mode allows for prioritizing shooting to action by just using front or rear control dials to swap between Av or Tv modes.

16. Hitting the INFO button displays a global settings page that allows very quick changes.

17. "M" Hyper Manual Mode allows using the GREEN button to get the right exposure as a starter and then by using the AE-L button you can adjust Aperture or Shutter and the exposure remains the same.

18. O-GPS1 unit allows K-5 sensor to track the starts for 'long' exposures.

19. Pentax cameras are light and small so they don't dominate you when you're out and about and for me that's a lot of the fun in itself. My D800E with grip and the 70-200 F2.8 VRII weighs a few grams under 3kg and after awhile it wears you down, even with black rapid straps etc. Even the Pentax DA*300 F4 is WR and is sharper and weighs almost 500gms less than my AF-S 300/4. Weight is an issue for me these days as I have a back injury.

20. Weather Resistant and Cold Resistant down to (-10 to -20 degrees C): With a WR lens you hardly have to think about using them in the rain or arctic conditions.

There's obviously more to it than these things and you'd have to try one to appreciate it.

"track the starts" was meant to read "track the stars" in my earlier post. I was too late to edit that post.. sorry for the confusion.

Dear Bossa,

Thank you so much for your exhausting list! Even I shoot Pentax since almost a decade, a few functions were new to me and I will try them out.

Dear sandy b
Thank you very much for your comment.

Let me know if the 7100 can do all the following ?
1) Can you do exposure compensation in Auto ISO Manual Mode ?

2) Can you program the lower ISO Limit and Upper ISO Limit for Auto ISO Range when being in manual mode ?

3) Can you switch back and forth between Auto ISO and fixed ISO in manual mode while retaining the set Shutter Speed, Aperture Speed and Exposure compensation ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

1 yes
2 yes, plus it takes into account the FL of the lens on the camera
3 I don't know

Dear Sandy,

Thanks your reply.

In such case I would suggest to list it as plus in both cameras. And maybe somebody can come up with a logical name for this new exposure mode. Makes no sense to list each vendors unique name for the same thing in a Pros list that shall be written for the intent to be easy to compare between camera models.

@2) Considering the focal length automatic automatically in exposure is very interesting. I am confused why to modify ISO according to focal length. Would it not make more sense to consider Shutter Speed ?

Let's move on and stop counting pixels and features! Get out there and take some pictures instead of wasting your time bickering and whining over what feature is better than the other or what manufacturer is better than the other...If I hear one more person whine about the stupid movie button...Jesus! It's just a guide to present the features of each camera and present it in a subjective view.
I'm sure all of the major camera companies are reading all of your post and taking notes! RIGHT

Hey "Father",
Why don't you take your camera and go out to get some pics ? .. I think your brain must need some oxygen now .. IMHO DP staff are mature enough to deal with their own defence ..

Mr Hubert, you are missing the point here: no one is angry at DPR or calling them bad names, they are not some kind of a bad regime or such. The criticism is addressed to them in order for them to try doing their namesake job.
Their namesake job is DPR, not "Canon and Nikon Timely Reviews, Others .. Who Cares". Maybe they don't realise that by such a treatment of smaller brands they destroy that necessary flair for uniqueness and innovation in photography we all benefit from.
Your comment does not help it; you flatter their current negligence — in lack of a better word — by clapping them for *any* kind of review — even if it's 9 months too late, for a brand they (with commitment showed so far) couldn't care less about.
Say, Nikon D7100 review came out a few weeks after the announcement. K5II(s) review came out 9 months later. If you think that's OK, that such people do their job correctly, that the conclusions of too late reviews are okay and not anachronistic, then we disagree.

Dear Zvonimir,

Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you 100 %! I like to be specific:
* It is bad for all of us that the K-5 review is 9 month late ( bad for dpreview themselves, bad for customer, bad for Pentax )
* This much delayed review is hurting Pentax in sales! In return this is hurting the photography community that a company delivering excellent value cameras with outstanding user interface is not receiving the sales they probably need and there is a risk they might close one day because of it and the community will loose one of the most innovative and photographic centric vendors

In fact I wrote about this earlier, but there are many comments here. I will post my earlier writings on responsibility of reviewer for your reference.

My comment about being nice was related towards those many comments which were very cynic in style and which were suggesting malicious intent. I objected the tone and treatment. I did not objected the content.

Can we not be adults and identify by name? You mean (mostly) me. The inability to candidly call out DPR for its inability to perform a timely (and to a much worse degree) accurate review is a shame and is frankly entirely warranted. Mr. Barnett's inability to admit fault (both on his behalf and on that of DPR, but moreso on himself as he is the author of this review) is what is most concerning. Mr. Chen, I appreciate your enthusiasm towards your K-30, and I concur that it is a phenomenal marvel and will argue tirelessly that it is by far the best value for the money in the photographic world today for stills photography. That notwithstanding, your ambivalence to the inability (or neglect?) of Digital Photography Review to fulfill its very own namesake detracts from the issue at hand: holding DPR accountable for inacurrate and untimely publications. And then refusing to admit fault once questioned. Enjoy your fantastic K-30, but please stop disillusioning DPR that they are "succeeding."

I agree entirely with everything you said, however I felt that while my tone was/is aggressive (a tendency of mine at times, I admit), it was never insulting. In the event I am in similar circumstances, I fully expect to be called incompetent/neglectful/etc should that be accurate. That isn't an insult: it's being succinct and having the maturity and integrity to call a spade a spade as opposed to focusing and prioritizing feelings over content. As you mentioned, I never deviated from the facts and presented them lucidly.

Conversely, go to the Pentax SLR Talk and in Mr. Barnett's very own thread that he started about the review being posted and see if the polite, overly respectful questions (which I am not condemning in the slightest) questioning his execution of this review have earned a response from Mr. Barnett.

I apologize if you felt that way, as I was merely being candid - a quality of mine I admit I am reminded is not often welcome. Regardless, if you felt insulted/disrespected, it would have behooved you to contact me directly (i.e. via pm) and state so as opposed to being so defensive.

I sincerely never intended to be insulting or disrespectful, and if I felt as such from you, I would have contacted you directly and notified you of that. I apologize for making assumptions that how I would prefer to be professionally engaged was not reciprocal to your preferences.

All of that notwithstanding, there are many issues pertaining to your review that are awaiting your attention.

To be clear, the review doesn't say that. He's responding to something ThePhilips said further down, a paraphrase of something someone else said.

You're underthinking it.

"with new cameras and many conflicting priorities." That's exactly what has been said - Pentax is given the priority of red-headed stepchildren.

"As for the K-5 II's score, it's a little lower because it didn't change much after more than two years." Could it be a testament to being ahead of its time in the first place, and then having the smarts to keep what works? I hope they NEVER abandon the K-5 body. EVER.

I personally find offense to the inaccuracy of the review. The truth is, everyone goes to the conclusion page and that's it, especially those whom aren't very camera saavy. So when you artificially deflate the scores, it sends the wrong message to those not diligent to do their due research. For instance, build quality. There isn't a camera with better build quality for less than $2500. PERIOD. And even then, the K-5 can compete against the D4/1DX. Its ergonomics are without fail praised as being "as close to perfection as cameras get."

Heie2, had you read the review, you'd see statements like these: "Much as other manufacturers generally update internal components of their professional SLRs while leaving the controls untouched, Pentax focused on what needed updating in the K-5 - namely the autofocus and sensor - and left the rest alone. That leaves less to talk about in a review of this sort, but most of the camera's old tricks - dating back to the K-7 - are unique enough that they still seem new."

"As far as the number and arrangements of control points are concerned, there are no external differences whatsoever. This is good news - as far as operational handling is concerned, these cameras are quite pleasurable to use."

Heie2: And how about this gem from the first paragraph of the conclusion:

"Though they don't represent hugely significant upgrades to the original K-5, the Pentax K-5 II and K-5 IIS still hold their own in the current SLR market, with excellent image quality, solid build, and a proven interface. We appreciate the tight, simple design of the K-5 II, one that offers quick access to a rich feature-set. Where the K-5 II shines, though, is its quality sensor, which seems essentially unchanged from its predecessor."

And a little further down: "Thanks to the sensor we liked so much in the K-5 and Nikon D7000, the Pentax K-5 II still turns out excellent images with a wide dynamic range and low noise, while maintaining good shadow and highlight detail."

(cont. from above)

Features? You mentioned (albeit hastily) the sensor shifting for composition adjusting and the astro tracer (you failed to mention how cheap the O-GPS1 is for what it offers - $150 and it's yours). How about having stabilized primes under 90mm - Nikon has *none* and my Sigma 8-16mm on any Pentax is stabillized, as well as my 8mm fish eye. EIGHT MILLIMETER LENSES. How about pixel mapping that you can do by yourself and not have to send in to service for in the event you have hot pixels? But "Features" category score is high enough. For a $1000 camera...

Less than exceptional RAW image quality? Really? Considering your partnership with DXO I would have thought you'd pay attention to their measurements. I advise you look at their Number *4* camera under "Landscape." Out of 216 they've reviewed. "Dizzying heights" was their term for the K-5 II series DR.

Lastly, the D7100 seems to have better "performance." Tell that to burst mode shooters and their 7 RAW buffer...

Okay. You're obviously inconsolable. Every review has cons. Try not to take them personally. I really liked the Pentax K-5 II and K-5 IIS and strongly recommend them to fans of cameras and photography. I said so in a fairly detailed review, offering photographic evidence. If you prefer to see me as saying something else, I clearly can't change your mind.

@ Heie2

I can understand your feeling that Pentax Cameras are very under-appreciated in the market. I just got my K-30 and the amount of additional and useful features it provides is blowing my mind. I now feel like an idiot I was even considering the Sony NEX-6 over the Pentax K-30. I am working on a Review from the perspective of an Enthusiast Photographer to hopefully make these features more visible to a broader audience. Your comments have been very useful and will make it into my review. So thank you.

May I suggest however that you notice that this review awarded the K5II the most prestigious gold award and on top of that dpreview awarded Pentax a dedicated page of "Standout Features Explored". I have not seen dpreview ever to do this for another brand!

Your language also suggest a bitterness and resentment, which usually never helps to speed up communicating what you want to say.

That being said, I appreciate the technical contents of your posts. Thank you.

Heie2,

I can understand your frustration, but you also have to acknowledge the reality and ask yourself why Pentax is not better treated, not just by reviewers everywhere, but also by consumers. Why are they not buying the K5 for example, with its "dizzling" high performance results, Gold Award, and high praises, like -

- There isn't a camera with better build quality for less than $2500. PERIOD. And even then, the K-5 can compete against the D4/1DX. Its ergonomics are without fail praised as being "as close to perfection as cameras get."

Why then does this camera not sell at even $799? or has to be discounted so low?

The answer is obvious. Most people or 99.9% of the system camera buyers have already given up and left Pentax for dead. Who wants to risk their money buying Pentax lenses? How can they have confidence buying if they do not know if or when an upgrade model is ever coming, if ever. With no interest from buyers/readers, why should DPR and others bother to review.

"As for the K-5 II's score, it's a little lower because it didn't change much after more than two years. "

i think the k5-2 is about as good as the D600. Better Raw Noise (review here never mentions best APS-c results, even beating Full Frame sensors)) and features, vs. 50 percent more pixels and more AF fields.

It doesnt matter if its 2 years old, its still APC-s class leader.
That said, the K30 is almost as good as the K5.2 and costs ONE THIRD of the D600.

Shawn Barnett wrote:

"What difference does it make if the camera scores better?"

If it doesn't make a difference then why not increase the score to 100 or eliminate the scores entirely?... So the scores do make a difference, right?...

"It isn't a contest, it's a relative judgment based on changes in the market."

The market has changed in the amount of time it took to publish the review.

@ murnintroll:

I am using the K-30, mostly with FA 30 mm f/2 and FA 50 mm f/1.4. These lenses are not known to be a speed demon. PDAF is blazingly fast. Hunting is a thing of the past. AF appears to be spot on. I still need to to critical AF precision testing. I am using most of time CDAF however, it is significantly slower, but still about the speed of the *istDS PDAF. But its accuracy is stunning. Let me know if this answered your question ?

Neither has the card door on mine. Over 20k pics in rainy conditions, on the beach, hot weather and the cockpit of a helicopter (my day time job) and it has never had "a tendency to open during normal operation." Either a duff one or dodgy gripping action?

I have personally owned the K-7, K-5, K-30 and K-5 IIs. Not ONCE have I *EVER* had *ANY* flap or door open without my doing so purposefully. EVER. Over the course of several years and tens of thousands of shots between them, to include combat photography and my cameras bouncing on my vest during dismounted patrols. Not. Once.

It seems like DPR is constantly on a mission to *find* faults with Pentax's cameras because there are just too few and a short con list wouldn't look good compared to the Canikon competition. I admit the C-AF is not in the same league as the competition, but other than that? I won't comment any further than has been done regarding your out-of-touch sense of reality when it comes to a video button on a STILLS camera.

It's disheartening the lack of objectivity and competence here. I guess that's what "free" buys your audience.

I prefer objectivity. I prefer integrity and competence. I am invested in Pentax well more than I ever thought I would be and than most people are. But I appreciate an honest review that gets it right. I am not afraid of criticizing my own gear and pointing out the shortfalls.

Honestly it seemed that you liked the cameras. It really did. But at the end of the day, you failed to capture that in the review scoring which is your single most important component of the entire review. Please do not blame your ineptitude on my displeasure at it.

OFHS Heie2. I have never looked at the score on camera reviews (or indeed whether it is a bronze, silver or gold). I read the words.

As far as I'm aware, dpreview is not reviewing your manhood.

Apparently it's me that doesn't get it. Apparently I am the only one that considers this imaginary Joe Average who has no idea what ISO and RAW are. This made up guy that skips to the last page of the book and bases everything he needs to know on one colorful graph as opposed to 15 pages of detailed, positive statements (in case you missed it while defending yourself "Honestly it seemed that you liked the cameras. It really did.") This guy who has no desire to read a comprehensive scoring system rubric because what more is there to know than a B-/C+ grade?

Apparently it is I that is out of touch.

Nah, I had the NEX 6 and the low light / high iso is not better. Sorry.

Mmhhh...comparing the thing that counts, the raw files, the NEX 5N and 6 seem sharper at low ISO than the 5II and as good as the K5IIs at low ISO. High ISO 1600 all are about the same.

So I guess that´s no dream.

The Olympus OM-E5 looks better to me too in the low ISO sharpness department.

i just wished the IIs samples also used some sharp prime lenses. the zoom is just horrible.

My experience is the zoom used is just marvellous. I have most of the DA & prime lenses but the 18-135 is just as good and very versatile.

so it's been downhill since 2004, basically.

Actually, Phils reviews were never known for artistic shooting. Workman and useful come to mind. Todays images have more than enough useful information to make a informed purchasing descision, as well as some good shots.

You need to see some grainy, moody, over-processed monochrome street scene to judge the capabilities of the sensor?...

since when does a proper, old school, good composition include grain, over-processed monochrome?

i was only referring to the samples as not being well-composed... they seem to me as though they're merely hasty shots lacking in aesthetics, primarily good content, appealing subject etc... thats it... you did not have to FRY me for that.. ;)

some good samples from dpreview.com:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/33
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/32
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dsmkii/27
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/24
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse300/30
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminolta7d/27

My D7100 has a movie button. I'm a stills shooter but the movie button is still a great convenience. You don't have to use it if you consciously don't want to, but like the cup holder, it's sure as hell useful when you need it!

Of course it's not a nonsense — that is "what is required". It doesn't matter if you need it or not — you better like it or you'll end up shooting film!
We need to cover top plate and back side of the camera with as many buttons as possible, to direct access to everything that comes to fad. A camera doesn't have a direct button for "Instagram cross-process toy filter look no. 16, voted by Kim Kardashian as totally cool"? Nah, pooh, 5 points down. :)

I'ts got a moviebutton. Press mode select release, turn wheel two strokes en then press shutter, and you're on. I think direct moviebutton is a design choice by pentax. When you're into al lot of moviemaking. Get a canon. They are much better at it and there is magic lantern.

If you shoot DSLR video, then not having a dedicated button is a con. But I personally don’t shoot DSLR video, so it’s not a con for me. How should I deal with this paradox? Should I be angry at DPreview for mentioning it? Let’s think about it:

All photographers have different needs. DPreview is trying to address as many of those needs as possible. That means some of the information is not useful to all people. Not all pros are pros for everyone, and not all cons are cons for everyone.

So when reading a review, if a pro or a con doesn't apply to me, then should just IGNORE it and move on. Determining what information is applicable to my needs is my responsibility and not DPreview’s.

Paradox solved...

"It's not a paradox."

I know, I was being sarcastic to make a point.

If you're into street shooting, then you'll love the 21, 40 and 70 pancakes. Discrete jewels with top IQ, and unique to Pentax.

@iudex: it must have been me!

@ KonstantinosK: No, it was a Japanese girl :-) And I have not noticed many Greeks (if any) at Acropolis, only crazy tourists like me :-)

Is it bad not to be in mainstream?
I went for Pentax 4 years ago just because competitors offered nothing valuable for such price. And nothing has changed in this aspect since. As for Nikon, I think this vendor(comparing it with Canon) has taken too much interest in marketing than creating user valuable cameras. Even Canon deserves more respect from this point of view.

Interesting you say that because in the US Nikon just ran a full-eight color insert in USA Today in partner with Best Buy, i.e. expensive. I never realized before how strong Nikon marketing is. We're a long ways from Alex Agasse and the Canon AE-1 days.