Ricoh drops GR II price $100 three weeks after announcement

with new cameras sporting a large sensor and a zoom lens,
in a compact format and at a similar price point,
it's not really current anymore to offer a fixed focal length.

I would have expected Ricoh to add some kind of a good quality zoom lens into this iteration, to keep it current, and now that other manufacturers have proven it possible in this size format.

Jul 17, 2015permalink

The Ricoh GR uses an APS-C sensor. So far, there are no APS-C compact camera that have a zoom lens. Adopting a zoom lens would make the compact camera into a compact DSLR like the Canon 100D with a kit lens.

Jul 17, 2015permalink

Jude McDowell

Leica X Vario is a (reasonably) compact APS-C with zoom...

Jul 17, 2015permalink

You can get with a MFT, which isn't too far off.
And the 1" aren't as good, but they are reasonable.
At the enormous size of this there should be room for a zoom.

Jul 17, 2015permalink

The Leica X Vario is definitely not pocketable and cost much more. The Ricoh GR is. The GR is so treasured by photographers is because of its very compact size. Due to its excellent fixed 28mm (equivalent) f/2.8 lens, it can produce excellent images which is rare for its size. It can also take very good B&W photos.

Jul 18, 2015permalink

SSantana75

"At the enormous size of this there should be room for a zoom." Are you on drugs? have you ever seen, let alone held one of these?

Aug 7, 2015permalink

@SSantana yes and no need to be such an @$$H0L3 !
I know the GR did very well in tests against the Fuji and that other one. But when you consider the latest cameras coming out, you KNOW there is room for zoom on these.

Sep 11, 2015permalink

SSantana75

Please name one camera with an APS-C sensor and a zoom which still fits in a trouser's pocket.

Sep 12, 2015permalink

sapporodan

Have to admit I've lost some respect for Ricoh for releasing this at such a high price. This and abandoning the Q system (although that one is kind of understandable).

Have they held back updating the firmware of the original GR while they release this? that's a pretty shitty thing to do to the original GR owners out there.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

joelakeland

An integrated evf and articulating lcd screen are overdue. And, of course, the dust issue sucks but let's not overlook dead pixels.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

boxingshow

great camera, love it!

Jul 10, 2015permalink

Len_Gee

Does the MKII finally fixed the dust in lens issue that plagued the original GR?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

I don't think so. They should have recognised this problem and make it weather-proof. That would be excellent.

Meanwhile, one have two choices to prevent dust from getting into the lens. One is to attach a stick-on UV filter over the front of the lens. However, a stick-on UV filter is not easily available. The other solution is to attach the wide angle lens adaptor tube to the lens and attach a normal screw-on UV filter on it. This will help prevent dust from entering the front of the lens. The main problem with this method is the camera would be less "pocketable". The bright side is one is able to attach the 21mm wide angle adaptor lens more readily.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

lhkjacky

Just get a 32mm filter/protector from ebay, it prevent dust from entering from the front of the lens.

I always put my GR mk1 in the dusty jean pocket, used over a year no dust in the lens.

Jul 11, 2015permalink

... or just buy a different model from the competition! lol ;)

Jul 17, 2015permalink

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/a7000-delay-and-some-more-info-about-it/

To begin with, the GR II should not have been sold at a higher price. If they could have made the camera dust-proof and weather-proof beside including wi-fi then a price increase would be justified.

I am actually waiting for a new version of the GR with a weather-proof body.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

nicolaiecostel

The demand must have not been that great.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

audiobomber

Both the Ricoh GR II and Pentax K3 II are "kick the can down the road" products because the new Sony APS-C sensor is not available yet.

> A7000 delay and some more info about it (via Ricoh/Nikon sources)

"Trusted sources kept saying this (Sony a7000) was due to release sometimes in April/May but Sony had some kind of issues with the hardware of the camera."

> I now got info from Ricoh and Nikon sources:
"They told us that Sony developed a new sensor for the A7000. By contract that sensor could be used by other companies six months after the Sony A7000 announcement. The delay of the A7000 release also changed their product roadmap. To use the new Sony APS-C sensor with hybrid autofocus tech they will have to release their camera sometimes in 2016 instead of late 2015."

"Let’ hope Sony will announce the A7000 during the next announcement session in September/October!"

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

what_i_saw

Does this one at least focus on subject instead of the background like the old one did?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Samuel Dilworth

Good question! I had the same problem with my GR. Surprisingly, this major problem is rarely mentioned in reviews.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RidgeRunner22

Crappy contrast detect AF on a larger sensor. Coolpix A is the same. Luckily a 18.5 2.8 is pretty easy to zone focus.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

audiobomber

> Does this one at least focus on subject instead of the background like the old one did?

Why should it? No other CDAF will.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Samuel Dilworth

I have used many cameras with contrast-detect autofocus, including a series of Lumix LX cameras that had genuinely brilliant autofocus.

By contrast, although the GR is fast and sure in the actual focusing action, it prioritises brightness over frame placement to such an extent that it focuses on the background if there is the slightest hint of light there. The number of photos I missed because of this was disappointing to say the least.

(I had a GR Digital IV before that had exactly the same problem, though because it had a small sensor, it was sometimes masked by depth of field.)

Otherwise the GR is spectacularly good, even if it’s a bit too complex.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

audiobomber

An AF point on a CDAF sensor is not as fine as an AF point on a DSLR. That is my experience with an a8000 and K-3. Missing the subject and picking up a contrasty background is far more frequent with a MILC.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

Hibiki Rush

Thank you for mentioning this, I thought I was the only one that gets this problem. It's easy to work around for someone familiar with the camera, but hand it off to someone to take a photo of you and expect a nice sharp background and blurry face. The biggest annoyance about the camera.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Hibiki Rush

@audiobomber

Well the RX100 III never exhibited this problem. Not to the extent of the GR at least.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RidgeRunner22

Rx100 small sensor soft lens, ea focus is far less critical

Jul 10, 2015permalink

what_i_saw

@Hibiki Rush You are not the only one. I had started a thread on this issue and the replies as to how to fix this were so technical that I bought an OMD E-M5. GR now collects dust. Which is a shame
This is the thread:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53766507

Funny how DPReview never came across this issue. Maybe they are technically sound enough to avoid this issue.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

Samuel Dilworth

An interesting thread, what_i_saw. As usual, Zvonimir Tosic speaks so much sense. His posts are among the most thoughtful and interesting on this site.

Jul 10, 2015permalink

zodiacfml

Because the launch price was not in touch with the current market. The current change puts it similarly to an a6000, but that comes with an EVF, better AF, and better video. Still, it seems that the a6000 is a better buy.

A modest launch price should put it at $100 more than the GR.

Previously, I suggested a 24MP Sony sensor for the GR2. Yet, I realized it doesn't add value, only to improved the 35mm crop mode feature and will make the camera a bit slower due to the larger files. High ISO improvement is not practically huge.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

phazelag

I like the A6000 but dont consider this like that. The Sony requires big heavy lens to match the sharpness of this feather weight GR.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

brendon1000

Actually the Sony has a pretty nice 20mm f2.8 compact prime that works pretty well. Plus the mp differences will make up for the slightly sharper lens on the ricoh. The only reason to go for the ricoh will not be iq but for a different shooting experience. It's a more integrated product while the Sony a6000 is a more mass market product and will not handle the same as the ricoh

Jul 9, 2015permalink

http://camerasize.com/compact/#454,535.369,ha,t

'Still, it seems that the a6000 is a better buy'

The two cameras are just not equivalent. 'Better buy' is a blanket concept that does no one any favours when it comes to thinking about complex commodities like cameras. For example, the ergonomics and UI is more important to me than EVF or megapixels.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Franka T.L.

to me the advantage of the GR is no longer with the GR-II when compared to like of like with the same time frame. The old 16MP sensor is now the bottleneck of performance which is what the likely buyer will be checking against. Don't even bother just with the A6000 , but take a look at the like of Panasonic GM-5 together with the 15mm or even just the Sony A5100 with the 20mm. Hey Samsung NX-500 with their 20mm is not that bad either.

The GR was launched as an up to date imaging hardware platform together with ricoh unique GR approach to UI and imaging ( soft side ) but the GR-II lack the first part and not much improved in the latter. So we are looking at what's more like a GR 1.25 instead of a II

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

AbrasiveReducer

The GR is a compact camera with a a fixed focal length wide angle, thereby being smaller and sharper than a zoom. I don't know what a imaging hardware platform is, but 16mp with a really sharp lens is plenty and the Ricoh screen and interface have always been very good.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

phazelag

I like the Sony and see why some would choose it if that was the choice, but I love my GR for pocketability, and the shooting experiences is supreme once you learn it thoroughly. The A6000 even with a 20MM is huge and heavy compared to a Ricoh GR.

Ricoh is half the weight and size. I agree 16MP is a bottleneck and disappointing for fans, but thats enough for me.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

The GR is almost perfect as it is except for some dust issues. It is one of the most user friendly cameras around and produces one of the sharpest images for a 16 Mp APS-C sensor.

The only camera that can challenge its image quality is the new Leica Q with a full frame sensor and a much faster lens but it is not "pocketable" and is about eight times the price.

For stealth and performance, the GR is supreme. Those who shoot regularly would appreciate its value. A 16 Mp APS-C sensor is more than enough. Its the quality of the pixels that matters not just more pixels.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

norman shearer

Almost right - the Nikon Coolpix A would seriously challenge it on both performance and price. Not hearing of any dust issues with that camera either. That said I'm seriously considering the Ricoh GR instead of getting a DA 21mm lens for my Pentax K-5.

Aug 6, 2015permalink

abortabort

Yes the old model had been discounted as it was, wait for it, old. At launch the GR was $800 so now this is $100 cheaper than the old version. Doesn't add that much, sure, but neither do lots of updates. The RAW preview thing would be enough to upgrade and if the WiFi is decent is a nice addition. Not amazing, but heck the original GR has already had significant updates via FW over the course of its life that made it quite a bit better again. The extra raw buffer etc is welcome and not so different from say:

D4 to D4S
M to M-P
X-A1 to X-A2
650D to 750D
NEX-5R to NEX-5T
EOS-M to M2
X100S to X100T

Etc etc etc.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

abortabort

Also the 1/4000th shutter speed being available while wide open is a huge plus, really wish my old one and X100S did that.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Gnoo

The dust seal problem alone is worth the upgrade, if they actually fixed it in GR II, that is.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

R Stacy

Its sad really. I wanted a Ricoh years ago just for something different.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

CameraLabTester

I would totally fire Ricoh's bean counters pronto...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

'$100, from $799 to $699'

dpreview. Could I remind you that not everyone on dpreview lives in the USA. How about other parts of the world. For example what will the price be in the UK/Europe?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

onlooker

Knowing UK pricing policies, just replace $ with £ (or € if in Eurozone).

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

Giklab

This ^

Jul 9, 2015permalink

@onlooker
that a felicitous answer and not correct. You cannot just do a currency translation to get a Eruo or UK price. Otherwise I would not have said anything.
All UK prices are still £599. And no mention has yet been made of official European RRPs, which is what we need.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Claudio NC

Eruo?

Tungsten, is it perhaps the new money that will be released soon after the ongoing, known difficulties of many European countries?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

@Claudio NC

very amusing.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

RStyga

They might have addressed silently QC and design reliability issues. You never know.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Ben O Connor

There are "Saab kinda technologies" around us.
They offer best combo
Price is compatible
It sounds and feel "The One!"

But you ended up something else. In terms of cars; its Saab, in phones Nokia(Microsoft), and in cameras Ricoh/pentax. Very sad to see its happening that way. I am a lover of Saab owner of a Nokia 1520, but even I have a MicroFourThirds system...

Jul 8, 2015permalink

jadot

Come again?

Jul 9, 2015permalink

junk1

Used models still sell for $500 on ebay. It might still be the lightest APS-C sized camera (especially with a F2.8 lens)?

I'll have to search rcgroups, but in general, I don't recall ever seeing it used on a plane or "drone". Seems ideal, other than price.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

BarnET

Would prefer a Sony QX-1
Allows the drone to have other focal lengths like the 3 sigma primes and the 8mm fisheye from Samyang at a similar weight.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

junk1

How much would those combos weigh?

I like the APS-C sensor and F2.8 lens - having 1/1000s of faster shutter speeds would be helpful. I assume the Ricoh's base ISO (the most dynamic range) is at ISO 200. Should be able to get 1/1000s (or faster) on a sunny day at F2.8 ISO 200.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

BarnET

with the Sigma 19mm F2.8 (similar lens)
300 gr empty 350 gr with batteries and SD cards.

30mm weighs the same
60mm 50gr more so 350-400gr

The Fisheye would be 380 empty and 430gr loaded. All still under 500gr which is more or less the requirement for small drones.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

junk1

I'd love to stay under 10ounces. My current setup is around 7 ounces,maybe 8 (so around 228 grams) with my mounting method. My drone should have 4+ lbs of thrust, but it will weigh 2 lbs (with battery but not including the camera - pretty much what all moderate sized drones weigh). The frame weighs 10 ounces plus almost that much for the battery, then the 4 motors and motor controllers, flight controller, GPS; etc - so it's impossible to get much under 2lbs.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

BarnET

QX100 then. basicly a Rx100 without a LCD
http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-qx100/specifications

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Kipplemaster

It seems surprising that they were (and still are) asking more money for this than the GR. To ask the same as the old camera seems reasonable given that none of the other manufacturers have managed to create a pocketable large sensor camera with an amazingly sharp lens. Talk of updates seems irrelevant. I own GRI and A7R and in almost all real-world situations where 28mm is appropriate the GR is equivalent whilst being genuinely pocketable. Money no object I wouldn't swap my GR for a Leica Q for example which costs more but is not pocketable.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

Draniki

Three weeks ago I pay $799 and I wait delivery. I am rich man...

Jul 8, 2015permalink

nandbytes

Why no viewfinder?

Jul 8, 2015permalink

because.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

HowaboutRAW

"While we don't [know] why...."

Jul 8, 2015permalink

JEROME NOLAS

GR is an excellent camera but yuppies want more bells and whistles... all it needs any kind of IS!!

Jul 8, 2015permalink

onlooker

Yuppies want a viewfinder, oh horror.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

The Davinator

And we prefer a 35mm equivalent lens.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

JEROME NOLAS

@The Davinator: No way for Ricoh, Leica does 35mm eqv. lens, even if new FF compact Q is 28mm...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Cameracist

It doesn't heve a viewfinder, proper grip, interchangeable lenses, built in image stabilization, PDAF and a tilting touchscreen. No buy for me and a shame on Ricoh!!!

:-)

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Model Mike

Scchh don't tell anyone - IS is totally unnecessary on a 27 mm equiv lens. Leica even recommend it be disabled on the Q.

Jul 9, 2015*permalink

The Davinator

@Jerome - many of my friends and collegues like the Ricoh GR series.....but none lf us have bought it because we feel the 28 is too wide. Ricoh is not in the same market as Leica...thus the fact Leica has a 35 is irrelevant.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

@JEROME NOLAS

'all it needs any kind of IS!!'

Not really. Yuppies are far too young to have the shakes – unless they already have the DTs.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

ogl

List of changes
Wireless connectivity
Wireless flash support
Raw file burst depth
White Balance
Autofocus during movie capture
Exposure compensation during movie capture
Creative effects during movie capture
Top shutter speed wide-open
More effects modes
Interval Composite shooting
In-camera raw processing
Better image review for raw files
Playback startup
Pixel mapping
Improved battery life: The Ricoh GR II's battery life is CIPA-rated to 320 shots on a charge, up from 290 shots from its predecessor with the same DB-65 lithium-ion battery pack. That's about a 10% improvement, though we suspect that's without Wi-Fi enabled.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

vadims

Now count how many of these are just firmware updates (hint: all but wireless options).

Fuji would just release a firmware update (or two, or three...), and wouldn't bother with re-badging the camera.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

ogl

No doubt. That's why the price is down now.

Jul 8, 2015*permalink

ET2

That's just software changes. Thanks for confirming it wasn't really a new camera

Jul 8, 2015*permalink

@vadims
Ricoh have a longer history of firmware upgrades than Fuji. And some of these options are not firmware upgrades.

Jul 8, 2015permalink

abortabort

'Fuji would just release a firmware update (or two, or three...), and wouldn't bother with re-badging the camera.'

Wow I find this insanely hilarious! Fuji really have done a marketing number with their FW updates. Ricoh have been quietly doing this for years and doing it better.

While this is a new and slightly modified camera it does have hardware changes, but the 'great Fuji' would never do that! *cough* X-A2 *cough* and *cough* pretty much every camera they have brought out in the last two years is a repackaging of the same camera *cough*.

I guess it is really easy to make firmware updates on a regular basis when all your cameras are exactly the same in a different shell.

*sigh*

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Revenant

Fuji did add a new film simulation filter to the XQ1 and rebadged it as the XQ2.

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Ale1210

"Fuji would just release a firmware update (or two, or three...), and wouldn't bother with re-badging the camera."

It's a matter of different business models.
Software development is not for free, it costs.
And some cameras are traded at a price which is including a certain number of prepaid firmware updates...

Jul 9, 2015permalink

Pandimonium

cancel those pre orders....

Jul 8, 2015permalink

AbrasiveReducer

Just wild speculation but maybe the fact that the Coolpix A hung around for months at $300, might have influenced their decision.

Jul 8, 2015permalink