Just Posted: Canon G1 X studio test samples

That's what I've been hoping for. Better IQ than G11 at about the same size.

Feb 28, 2012permalink

cube65

The IQ is much better than G11. It's in another league than both G11 and G12, but slightly bigger. It's getting closer to a small DSLR compared to the camera house, but since it has a lens that "folds" into the camera it mucj smaller in depth.

Mar 1, 2012permalink

Mine arrived 20 minutes ago. It looks and feels nice. Once the battery is fully charged, I will go and take some pictures.

Mar 1, 2012permalink

My G1X is on it is way to me right now - I am really excited. Foto Koch in Germany promised shipping at the end of February and they deliver on their promise. Price is €749.

Feb 28, 2012permalink

EinsteinsGhost

This camera doesn't appeal to me at all. I thought Nikon 1 was a disappointment. This Canon now takes the cake. For more than twice the price, it appears to deliver only a minor incremental improvement over many super zoom cameras but without the ability to switch lenses out and limited reach. It would have deserved a closer look if I could use virtually any lens of my choice. That ain't happening, but should work for the casual snap shooter looking for better quality than superzooms under limited range.

Feb 23, 2012permalink

G series has always been a short-medium zoom, and superzooms would require much smaller sensors, meaning much worse IQ at higher ISOs.
Basically, for a fraction of the price, one gets a compact form factor equivalent to any APS-C dSLR for its IQ out there, but also includes ES-LV (exposure simulation live view; which all PowerShot G's have) which is what EOS LV dSLRs have too (ExpSim LV) 60D/7D/5D/1D+
This puts all PowerShot G's in a class entirely on its own.
If you can find a more compact ZOOM lens of equivalent wide aperture, and speed (f/value) you will have to look to dSLRs or 'maybe' some mILC systems (that 'may' have ES-LV).
This isn't going to be a lower model 'super-zoom' with a tiny sensor.
If you want that, get an SX series PowerShot instead... if you really want 35x zoom or more, you get handicapped by its smaller sensor. If you want 0cm macro, opt for an S/X series with a tiny sensor.

Feb 25, 2012permalink

cube65

I have used my G1 X for a couple days now, and the image quality is very very good. I'ts in another league than the G12.

My pictures are much better than the blury example pictures above.

There are no super zoom camera on the market thats even close to the G1 X. So the main reason to by G1 X is the image quality.

This far I have just a few minor complaints about the camera. All important thinhs works very well.

Feb 27, 2012permalink

Bob Diamond

I had the G10 n G12.... Until recently i lost the G12... Now im looking forward to the G1X. ... Hope its the best Canon can produce for 2012 for compact cameras...

Feb 21, 2012permalink

lightsculpture

It is true that the G1x has its fair share of critics. It is also true that there is room for improvement.

However, I noticed that the G1X has been hogging the no. 1 spot on the chart called 'Cameras receiving the most clicks in reviews and specs in the last five days' since it was announced. It was briefly unseated by the D800 after its announcement, after the Panasonic GX1 review and on a few other occasions. But, every time it bounces back and now it is back on top again.

Canon is definitely not immune to making mistakes but this time, they must have at least done a few things right...

Feb 21, 2012*permalink

This camera is what I have been waiting for: Reasonable in size, high IQ (in particular at higher ISO) and compatible with my Canon flashes. Don't need interchangable lenses (if I do, I take my 7D). Plus: I can do the 7D and the G1X images in DPP. The OVF is propably as acurate or inacurate as the one on the G11 - but good enough for me in most situations. AF speed? Due to systems limitations, slower than on my 7D. But then, I can always shoot at f8 and 28mm relying on DoF. The G1X will replace my G11 and I will sell my NEX3 which I bought because I had given up hope that Canon will launch a large sensor compact. Just hope that the first shipment realy arives in Germany at the end of next week or first week of March.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

DavidsfotosDotCom

Did you see post: By topstuff (Feb 16, 2012 at 17:03) ?

Feb 18, 2012permalink

I guess the G1X is not for him, and I respect that.

Feb 19, 2012permalink

Well, topstuff has stated some doubtful things. For example, "slow" lens. May be slow at the long end - but definitely not at the wide one. (Show me a cheap kit zoom that starts at 2.8) Also, the high ISO performance of the G1X is indeed excellent - at least 2 stops better than Oly's 12Mpixel m43 cameras.

Also, he has forgotten to mention Fuji's sensor tech is still marred by orbs.

Feb 20, 2012permalink

28/2.8 is what counts for me. Constant 2.8 like on my 7D zoom would be lovely, but then that zoom alone is larger and heavier than the whole G1X :-) . What I do hope for(but knowing Canon I don't hold my breath) is a fix for WB and external flashes. On all G models, the WB with external flash gives wrong (too warm) colors and I always need to set WB manually (or adjust in DPP).

Feb 20, 2012permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl63USkCSMc

Sydue
Egoist
1.a person who is preoccupied with his own interests; a selfish person
2. a conceited person
Hmm!
'I have nothing to prove'
'I have nothing in common with shots I have no interest in'
'I don't need to be validated'
Defining 'Noob'
Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own.
Self-portrait anyone?

Feb 18, 2012permalink

sarkozy

G1X HDR-Video

Feb 18, 2012permalink

Ibida Bab

as good as it gets. thanks for sharing.

Feb 20, 2012permalink

tiberiousgracchus

seems a little underexposed..for the overcast conditions. I need to see more examples. Still loving this camera though

Feb 22, 2012permalink

CFynn

Skip all the comparisons. The Canon G series are very popular with some photographers. For anyone who likes those cameras, wants something better, yet has no need for an interchangeable lens camera, this G1x camera probably makes a lot of sense.

To me, this camera is to the G series what a fullframe DSLR is to an APS (crop frame) DSLR. Kind of a "fullframe" G series (though of course not "fullframe" in DSLR speak).

OTOH anyone who doesn't like Canon's smaller G series cameras (..., G9, G10, G11) won't like this one either.

Feb 18, 2012*permalink

backayonder

Does anyone still take pictures?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Lol. I wonder that myself. I do and have fun doing it. It is funny how obsessed we can get with specs and pixel peeping. I do it now and then, but when you consider what 99% of the population cares about when looking at pictures, this obssesion makes little sense. I am not saying we should not look for improvements and better gear, but the length we sometimes go into arguing about things that can only bee seen at 100% crop is silly in view of what people/customer care about.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

We are waiting for the spring light, mate.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

DP audience is more on gear.
The camera is good but a little big for my use despite a non-ILC. I hope Canon would use this sensor on the next S camera.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

attomole

for me not, I just read the comments section of camera review sites

Feb 18, 2012permalink

Gadgety

I believe people take snapshots at an unprecedented level compared to the past. Snapshots on mobile phones. Taking pictures as in photographing might be a different story, of course.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

Carlos, I can't say that I disagree with your point, but what we get with the advances in sensors, lens and camera usability just makes things better. I have been looking at the Fujifilm X Pro1 samples and I have to say the rich textures do add to photos. And, that was only possible becauses of the advances in sensor technology (and better quality lenses). ;-)

Feb 21, 2012permalink

DavidsfotosDotCom

I only went back to this post & its the best so LIKE it & maybe Canon will stop making crap (I have a 5D Mk2), see: By topstuff (Feb 16, 2012 at 17:03 GMT)

I was hoping this could be my dive camera. When will the LAME billion $ camera corps make a at least a good 10 - 20 meter, fast, wide-angle marco, RAW, waterproof camera for free & SCUBA divers / travelers that don't want to pay $1,000 to $3,000 for a underwater (UW) housing that doubles the: cost, weight, bulk, & trouble!
Let me know what your favorite housing free UW camera is? Mahalo

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

The "note" is green above perhaps explains some of the "softness" at the edges, but to me it is a little "soft" all over the frame.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

"to me it is a little "soft" all over the frame"

Well, we may be watching a different shot, then :) IMHO, the lens (and the lack of strong AA filtering) is tack sharp in the non-extreme areas. Pretty good results for a zoom (non-prime, as opposed to the ones on the DSLR / m43 bodies) lens.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

johnschafer

I like how Canon is breaking away from "standard" sensor sizes with this 1.5" sensor, somewhere just under Sigma's 1.7x APS-C sensor size. Size matters :)

That said, I can see Canon moving into "medium-format" territory in a future flagship DSLR. They moved into Cinema with the C300, and we never would've guessed that happening, right?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

For sydue
Defining 'Noob'
Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own.
And please share with us 'THE ZONE' that so many of us are ignorant of, so that we all may learn. Maybe an article could be useful. And it would give you a break from pixel-peeping.

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

J Patagonia

I can't see the test samples :(

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Try force- refreshing (with Ctrl / Cmd) the page.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

KerryBE

I don't see the G1 X as an option in the standalone tool?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

brian57

It looks very good to me, especially at higher ISO's, and the lens is acceptable.
It is a shame Canon is so late to the party with the larger sensor/small camera trend. I might have considered this option as my travel camera if they came out with it a year ago. Now I just went all in with the 5N and a few lenses to use as my travel/small camera option.
I'm a big Canon DSLR user, but they have been behind the curve and have missed a lot of opportunities to expand the brand in this quickly exploding niche IMHO. Maybe they will make a better effort to catch up to the competition now that this market is more lucrative than they originally thought.

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

People commenting on fidelity of various parts of the studio have their own good reasons for that. For me, it's two particular objects. The blue Volkswagen at top center and the pretty lady at right center.

The VW renders a solid color (in this case blue) that is slowly changing as the metal shape is curving. The lady has a nice skin tone that is historically difficult to reproduce.

So I pick these two crops and look at them as JPEGs between ISO 100 and 800. The Oly P3 clearly comes out the best in the company of dpr-preselected cams. The idea is that when it comes to the real image of my car and my (pretty) lady, I want them to come out the best.

When I include the Pana GX1 in the comparison I think the VW comes out even better than on P3.

Canon G1 X can be compared with any cam but comes out short against m4/3s mentioned here. G1 X could be a good upgrade for G11 owners (and the older ones can be put on a shelf to collect dust on the outside as well :-)

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Set to RAW and 1600. Different story, G1X even is better than 7D. I would never compare out of camera JPEGs if I have a RAW option.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

I don't do raw, mcslsk. Yes, I can say I have better things to do, but referring to raw enlarges the context without relevance. If you go to a car show and make a dozen or so pictures, will you really spend an afternoon on shaping them up? Ney, you will use the JPEGs.

I want the cam maker to deliver the best JPEGs to me and that is how I, and a great majority of shooters, make the buying decision.

I have never used ISO 1600 with my m4/3 F1.7 lens -- even indoors and without a flash. Again, this is an escapement into an irrelevant context. If you insist on ISO 1600 to freeze action, you conveniently forgot the Canon G1 X slow AF.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

Then the G1X is not for you.

I only take RAW. If a large number needs to be turned into JPEGs, I can do that in no time. If I have to do that, chances are that those who will look at the images don't care much about subtle differences in color tone and will look at them using monitors and printers that are not calibrated anyway.

And yes, I am using ISO 1200 to 1600 a lot indoors (which is fine with the 7D, not so fine with the G11) with bounced flash and f8 for DoF.

Feb 19, 2012permalink

What's the file size for G1X raw? 25-35meg?

How's the G1X lens dust seal? You know, the previous Canon Gs are poor in this department and because the lens is integrated I hear it costs over $200 to have it cleaned.

How is G1X's flare? The flare test is usually not done on this kind of cam but it could bite hard and without recourse to another lens. (Canon 230HS has it bad -- I have one.) I hope dpr will test G1X for flare, particularly if Canon is positioning it against MIL cams.

I can print 40" wide from a 3 1/2-year old Pana GF1 from JPEGs.

You are right, G1X is not for me.

Feb 19, 2012permalink

G9, G10, G11 - never had a dust problem (nor did my father who is the lucky guy to always get the previous model when I upgrade). Flare wasn't a problem either and we'll see how the G1X behaves. I am not hunting for "the" best camera out there but for a camera that is compatible with my other Canon stuff like the flashes and the software. Makes life a lot easier. The NEX 3 which I got because I wasn't patient enough to wait for Canon's compact large sensor, produces fine images. But it is a different work flow, with the kit zoom the package is not really small anymore, and battery life is very limited.

Feb 20, 2012permalink

D200_4me

I think everyone would be a lot happier if they'd stop obsessing over specs, specs and more specs. The G1 X will make great photos, I'm sure. Just like many other cameras. Chose your camera, shoot and be happy :-) (and don't worry about what others think of your camera)

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Revenant

Good advice! Isn't perceived image quality what it's all about? Not theoretical IQ, or pixel-level IQ, but what we actually see when we look at real-world images under real-world conditions.
There have probably never before been so many excellent cameras available in the market at the same time as there are today, and yet some people seem unable to find one that suits them.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

I'm late to the action but has anyone noticed the very sharp rendering of the highly detailed objects despite the moire? This makes the camera sharper than APS-C sensors (except NEX-7).

Anyways, I thought the sensor, the light AA filter, and lens seems pretty good to me. I hope they could fit this sensor to an all new S camera.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Wow, it's better than I thought. It's only slightly noisier than the NEX-5n at its maximum ISO of 12800 and is sharper at the same time.
It's a great sensor after all! I'm sorry Fuji X and Sony 5n, this is better.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

oluv

I assume you are talking about the raw-samples?
But don't get too excited, as ACR is still not "optimized" for the sensor. Dpreview seem to have used some kind of beta-version. After adobe tweak their algorithms all the sharpness will certainly fade away.

Just look at the samples of the GH2 and G3. The GH2 seems sharper although it is more or less the same sensor. In this case also some beta-version of ACR was used for the GH2, while the final version was used for the G3 conversion.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Uri Ben

Sorry to break the party - but G1x sensor, though its quite good , its far behind the sensors of the Nex 5n or 7. just for example G1x DXO = 60 , Nex 5n= 77, Nex 7=81. And so on in many other parameters.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

The GXO results have been widely discussed here at the Canon forum. IMHO, they don't mean much: in real world, the sensor kicks some serious butts and is WAY better than the GxO result suggests.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Exactly. I don't have much expectations since the Sony sensors are superior anyway but for practical reasons the G1x comes very close despite the sensor size. I don't need an ILC and only liked the 5n due to it's ISO performance and couldn't afford good glass for it.
I don't think it is the sharpness setting in RAW development since the sensor output has a lot of moire in the studio sample which is fine with me.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

bgbs

there is slight lack of detail in G1x. It is especially visible on the feathers compared to DSLRs.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

feathers...
yes, the G1X does not fare as well as dSLRs for feathers...
(it would be nice if the feathers were in the same state though...)

ISO 6400:
5DMkII vs D3s vs PowerShot G1X vs NEX-7
http://tinyurl.com/6plka73

must be the sensor... or lens... or both...

ISO 6400:
1DMkIV vs D7000 vs PowerShot G1X vs K-5
http://tinyurl.com/7npqjm2

or maybe not...

only way out is to opt for lower ISOs, where it is better, but still behind dSLRs... indeed

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

it's the lens shooting at its max focal length. The corners or edges are soft but start looking around the center you'll get some impression of the sensor.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

feathers are just out of focus.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Also, the hair - looks a little smeared.

Feb 21, 2012permalink

Apologies for the many typos, iPad auto correct sometimes plays with me when I am not careful. I just plain stink at typing though. I tried to edit it, but the system would not let me.
Here is the corrected version...
I think the samples at high ISO are quiite good. They are not to the level of a dSLR, but I find them close and a huge improvement over my G-11. The lens could be better and hope Canon works on it, but for a camera with this form factor and range I am leaning towards getting one to replace my G11. I really cannot use anything over 200 ISO on my G11, so the G1X us a significant improvement from my view. I know I can pixel peep it to dead, but rather use it, and based on what I have seen so far I will be very satisfied as I compare it to my G11. Wish it was less money, but such is life? It is all about choices.
Maybe I am not as discerning as most of you on IQ.
PS. I am not a Canon employee. Just someone who likes to take pictures.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

http://tinyurl.com/7kc9vkp

samples at hi ISO are not to the level of a dSLR?
gee, which ones?

if the lens is better... how much better can it get really?

ISO 3200 (max for the G11):
5DMkII vs D3s vs PowerShot G1X vs PowerShot G11

i guess... who wouldn't want a G1X for less money... i do too
but then, i'd want a 1DX for less money instead... it at least is significantly better than the models above... (all the dSLRs listed above)

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

Sdyue,
If you cannot see a difference between the hi ISO samples of the 5d mark II ( I own one and love it) then so be it. I do, but do not expect the G1X to be at that same level. As mentioned in my original post, I am not into pixel peeping so like what I see so far; is a huge improvement over the G11, but it is not at the level of the 5d mark II. At least in my yes. It is quite ok to disagree.

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

I think the samples t high ISO are unite good. Thy are not to the level of a dSLR, but I find the close and a huge improvement over my G-11. The ens could b better and hope they work on TNT, but for a camera with that form factor and range I am leaning towards get in one to replace my G11. I really can not use anything over 200 ISO on my G11, so the G1X us a significant improvement from my view. I know I can pixel peep it to dead, but rather use it, and based on what I have seen so far, I will be very satisfied as I compare it to my G11. Wish it was less money, but such is life? It is all about choices.
Maybe I am not as discerning as most of you on IQ.
PS. I am not a Canon employee. Just someone who likes to take pictures.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

http://tinyurl.com/7kc9vkp

choose another dSLR... that you think the G1X might not fare well against at high ISOs (JPEGs) of course...

'what-you-see-is-what-you-get'... you see the preview on your digicam/dSLR... and you get what you want... (not something you don't expect, like what RAW does if you don't expose correctly w/o the exposure preview, and select the wrong speed/ISO/aperture, etc)

PS... why would anyone need to disavow being a Canon employee just for making feedback that reflects positively on the G1X, and if extremely negative, that can hardly be backed up, seem 'legit'?

the guys around here have such delicate egos... it is unbelievable... (i don't mean you, i mean those who are threatened by the G1X)

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

No-one is "threatened" by a camera. It is an inanimate object. A mass produced consumer electronics item. What a silly thing to say.

I think it is fair to say that this is an unexciting plastic box with an OK sensor , but clearly the lens is the weak point.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/896713352/albums/canon-g1x
My G1X sample, not all photo are take in max resolution.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

usable clean for night shots... however

are your contrast settings default? (default tends to be contrasty on digicams and most dSLRs)

if you try lower/lowest contrast settings you'd get less contrasty 'blow-outs' of bright night street lights or indoor lighting...

a contrast that would shift towards optimal DR for detail retention at the extremes (brights vs darks)... any desired contrast can be dialed back in depending on presentation medium (higher for light, lower for opaque (print))... and a contrasty 'look' desired that didn't lose the details at more contrasty default settings

when details are retained at both extremes... even JPEGs can manage some degree of PP, less than RAW of course, but getting exposure right is easiest in M modes with M ISO...

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

I bet you chit-chat endlessly to people who would rather the dog chewed off their ears than be subjected to it.

Feb 18, 2012permalink

Nice pics. If you don't mind my asking, where were they taken?

Feb 21, 2012permalink

keysmith

due to the lens (?) the results on the center are a lot better than in the edges.. The tecture is preserved in the center (cotton next to pluto dog) thab in the edge (blond hairs)

Feb 16, 2012permalink

NikonScavenger

high ISO peformance in RAW is amazing at 3200 and 6400. not too thrilled by the 5.8 minimum aperture at 112mm, that's more in the superzoom territory, but the near APS-C sensor is amazing.

it's an interesting response to the micro 4/3rds market by canon. i just might sell some old gear to buy this as a vacation camera.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Lens aren't that bad !... I will explain you... hmmm... or not... I want one before the 1st of April.
Well, nobody will read me.
Shot's focal lenght is 60.40 mm (117mm. eq., top end of the camara) (ask the author why) and focuses on the wall. Corners are sharp, (if you look on the wall corner squares). Even too sharp, due maybe (As Samuel Dilworth pointed before) to a lack of AAF filter (watch the greek coin and you will see moiré)

Feb 16, 2012permalink

too redish and ... were are the dark blues in this camera????

Feb 16, 2012permalink

By the way I've only just subscribed and so as to practice what I preach I've already added my gear list and my uploaded my first photo.
Constructive criticism welcome!

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Gianluca101

R. Butler

Why this?

sony nex-7: iso 6400 - f8 - 1/2000s
panasonic gx1: iso 6400 - f6,3 - 1/1600s
canon g1x: iso 6400 - f7,1 - 1/1000s

It's a non sense at all...

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

duartix

Because sensors are not equal and DOF will differ?
Because the lenses' sweet spots are different?
Because rated sensitivity and REAL sensitivity sometimes are altogether different matters?
All of the above?

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

The only thing I can compare it to is a procedure from another site. They go to AP and then use just the aperture that gives the best picture -- which they then publish.

If dpr is using the same "optimized" approach, pana is benefiting from the lens used it the shoot (that I believe is Oly), which puts forth the best quality at the widest opening compared to others.

Ever since the "let's try another camera sample" from Canon S100 shoot, dpr is quiet about the details of their procedures.

For example, I strongly suspect the dpr 'Interview with Dan Chung ...' was not an interview because dpr submitted a list of questions -- which Dan answered -- and then it was just published. No journalist would do this format; it is one-sided and it shows.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

ISO 6400:
5DMkII: FoV 85mm @ f/8 = 85/8 = 10.6mm DOF
Canon G1X: FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/7.1 = 60.4/7.1 = 8.51mm DOF
Sony nex-7: FoV 75mm (50mm) f/8 = 50/8 = 6.25mm DOF
Panasonic GX1: FoV 100mm (50mm) f/6.3 = 50/6.3 = 7.94mm DOF

would you rather have all at 7.1 dof f/choice?
Canon G1X: FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/10 = 60.4/10 = 6.04mm DOF
Canon G1X: FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/9 = 60.4/9 = 6.71mm DOF
Sony nex-7: FoV 75mm (50mm) f/7.1 = 50/7.1 = 7.0mm DOF
Panasonic GX1: FoV 100mm (50mm) f/7.1 = 50/7.1 = 7.0mm DOF
Canon G1X: FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/8 = 60.4/8 = 7.55mm DOF

or have a shallower dof f/choice?
Canon G1X: FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/7.1 = 60.4/7.1 = 8.51mm DOF
Sony nex-7: FoV 75mm (50mm) f/5.6 = 50/5.6 = 8.93mm DOF
Panasonic GX1: FoV 100mm (50mm) f/5.6 = 50/5.6 = 8.93mm DOF

or G1X shallower?
FoV 85mm (45.8mm) f/5.6 = 45.8/5.6 = 8.18mm DOF
FoV 110mm (59.3mm) f/5.6 = 59.3/5.6 = 10.59mm DOF
or
FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/6.3 = 60.4/6.3 = 9.59mm DOF
FoV 112mm (60.4mm) f/5.8 = 60.4/5.8 = 10.41mm DOF

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

at some point NEX and m43 will hit limits on the widest aperture diameters... but going shallower for dof, even for G1X is possible, but it only means less of the subject surfaces will be in focus the farther they are from the target focal distance.

what would you expect?

and opting for wider FOV will only reduce resolving finest details which would be less optimal for the composition available in the studio... a fixed size at a fixed distance.

what apertures and FOV would you have selected?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

I answered this when you first asked it:

They're shot to equalise depth-of-field, so the smaller format uses a wider aperture. They're also middle-grey matched, so any difference in shutter speed (after the different aperture is taken into account), may mean a camera is mis-representing its sensitivity.

That's something we look at in the reviews.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Also, you don't need to download the images to find out this information - it's included if you press on the sprocket icon under each 100% view. And it's how the shot has always been done.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

I love taking photos.
I don't care what brand.
I don't earn money from it and do it as a hobby.
I'm lucky enough to have what may be considered a relatively decent camera.
I go out shooting as much as possible to try and improve.
If someone spends all their time commenting on specs how often do they take photos?
I find it interesting to check the profiles of those who comment a lot (too much!) and see what gear and galleries they actually have.
When I stop laughing I feel sorry for them.
Any camera is better than none at all.
Comments anyone?
Also only an idea may be to reduce the number of characters allowed to make a comment although as I have seen here someone would just submit many more posts rather than several long ones!

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I agree completely.
Taking pictures is more important than the gear. I personally love using my iphone !!
But we are also a fan of tech. And good technology can make a big difference to make photography more accessible.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike this camera so much. It is a lazy, dull effort from Canon.

Other makers are investing in technology that is genuinely exciting and making photography easier and more fun. Canon does not seem to be contributing to this which, given their Number 1 position, is disappointing.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

AbrasiveReducer

I almost agree with you. Except that I don't laugh at other people's photos unless they're intentionally funny. What mnakes DPR interesting, besides all the wild guesses about what manufacturers are up to, is that different people have such different requirements for a camera. The "fan" phenomenon and juvenile name-calling are annoying, though.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

carlosdelbianco

Why bother commenting on a gear website then?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I never laugh at other people's photos unless they are meant to be funny.
I laugh because the people who are supposedly so well informed and have so much time to comment can't find the time to fill in their gear list or upload a photo.
I think we all could better judge their comments as worthwhile or not based on what they do with what they've got.
I don't know if some of these people will ever buy a camera as it's always lacking something and they'll never get around to actually taking a photograph which I think is rather sad.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

zubs

Wow, well put. I wish everybody had the same perspective as you. We get too bogged down in the my camera is bigger and better than yours. But in the end it really does boils down to is having fun and taking pictures. We don't know how lucky we are in the digital age. I was explaining to my 5 yr old that before digital cameras there was film. You couldn't see what your picture would look like until days/weeks when they were developed, she was intrigued. I hope she follows in my footsteps and takes photography as a hobby :-)

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

zxaar

"I laugh because the people who are supposedly so well informed and have so much time to comment can't find the time to fill in their gear list or upload a photo." --------------- I heard this many times. I am one of those who do not bother filling gear list and do not bother uploading photos. I briefly tried submitting on 1x.com and my success rate of acceptance was 40% which is pretty good if you ask the people who tried 1x.com . So based on your criteria I must be one of those who can not take pictures. But the truth is many people do not upload photos for various reasons. Many professionals prefer not to upload to DPR etc. Many people do not upload because of theft. (I stopped sharing best of my work because of this reason). About gear, not listing is best thing. I personally think that many people list gear just to impress others and say hey I have D3s so I must be correct. Which does not wash.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

i don't list my gear or much of any photos primarily because i have nothing to prove. and little to learn in terms of 'basics' (which i mastered long ago). i shoot in the zone where most are unfamiliar, and there is nothing in common with folks still doing shots that i have no interest in.
i can 'read' the limitations of 'gear' be it lens or body, so why would i have to buy something i already know the limits to and it is inadequate for my needs? this means 'buy-and-testing' such limited gear is a waste of time when the outcome is predictable.
i don't need to be validated by posting shots for 'feedback' or any kind of 'support', really. unless you're seriously a noob, or an egotist, then no reason to post images here, but for discussion of what appeals to one for the particular model being highlighted.

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

I agree that anyone can have a lot of great gear but that doesn't mean the person knows how to take a good picture although it may give an insight and a perspective to the comments being written.
Also I wouldn't want anybody to have their amazing photos stolen either.
Definition of Egoist,
1. a person who is preoccupied with his own interests
2. a conceited person
That's directed towards me?
From someone who 'has nothing to prove',
'shooting where most people are unfamiliar' and
'folks doing shots that I have no interest in' and
who 'doesn't need to be validated'!
I'm also sure that the people who enter the challenges manage to upload ok.
Please share with us 'THE ZONE' so we may all learn from you.
Especially the NOOBS!

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Egoist
1.a person who is preoccupied with his own interests; a selfish person
2. a conceited person
Hmm!
'I have nothing to prove'
'I have nothing in common with shots I have no interest in'
'I don't need to be validated'
Defining 'Noob'
Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

tipple

The search for the holy grail of the perfect camera will be a very long journey. The world goes around because two people looking at the same thing will in all probability view something different. The G1 X can deliver excellent images. It's not perfect but it is a big progression in this Canon line of cameras. Don't let pixel peeping rule your photographic life. Just remember there will always be a "better" camera for you.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

No way is this a "big progression' IMO. Sticking a larger sensor in a black generic box with a slow lens is hardly cutting edge stuff.

Other manufacturers are throwing millions of $ at research and development.

Sony created a whole new camera class in the NEX.

Nikon dared to be different with the 1 and created new ( and very good ) hybrid AF technology.

Fuji are pioneering with new sensor tech and hybrid viewfinders.

Canon simply stick a bigger sensor in a clunky G series form factor. Big deal.

Canon are the richest, largest camera company. Their competitors are making them look lazy, slow and flatfooted.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Given NEX arrived something like a year after Micro Four Thirds, your suggestion that Sony created a new class of cameras isn't terribly strong.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Yep -fair point. I'll give you that.

Sony were the first to try and cram a full sized lens package and APSC sensor into a small camera though. With mixed success IMO, but it was a hell of an investment and I applaud them for it.

You are right though. Kudos to the m4/3 guys at Oly and Panny for making big strides in bringing high IQ into a smaller form size. It is the kind of brave innovation sorely lacking in Canon.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

m43 offer a pixel pitch... of my 12 year old Canon PowerShot G1... so... all they needed to do was improve the electronics, but not face greater challenges of smaller pixels which Canon has for both smaller sensors w/ more Mp; as well as on larger sensors... they did the research in new sensor parameters... (smaller as well as larger, and this is why they lead in both ends)

basically, an m43 sensor has a pixel pitch that has been around for a long time... any improvements are not ones that face greater barriers of smaller pixels... thus making research confined to a fixed pixel size that much easier. but it also means still offering horrendous high ISO usability or low res limitations, or both combined. both combined, it shows. m43 size has hit its limits, and any increase in pixel size means a drop in resolution or a decrease in pixel size means a drop in higher-ISO usability... limiting one to sunnier shooting venues (or well lit ones).

2x m43 crop gives you reach but hardly enough

Feb 17, 2012permalink

100% nonsense. You are making this up

Feb 17, 2012permalink

AngryCorgi

Ummm...why were the images taken down? The are not listed on the studio test sample drop-down anymore. Did Canon step in and force a retraction of the images?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

They weren't/arent't/haven't been.

Try clearing the cache on your browser (it may be holding an old list of available cameras) - the images are still up.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Ordinary sensor.

Ordinary IQ.

Slow lens.

Nothing to get excited about.

Considering Canon's market position, this is not good enough. No innovation, no development, no moving forward. It is a lazy, cynical and very conservative effort by Canon IMO.

Considering Canon's HUGE market dominance I am surprised people here are not holding Canon to a higher standard than this.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

ericsan

Absolutely right !
As slow as the latest G series...
As a Canon user over the last 30 years, i'm seriously considering moving to Olympus latest OM-D to replace my Canon DSLR"Rebel" & G10 compact photo equipment !

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Can't say I blame you ! OM-D looks like a very sweet package. And it is worth remembering that the G1 X Canon is not a full size APSC sensor, being more like 4/3ds.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I want all the people thinking like you, and hope for a better price for G1X soon, thank you!

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Ordinary sensor.
Canon... 60D/7D or better...

Ordinary IQ.
Canon... 60D/7D or better...

Slow lens.
m43 doesn't have a faster zoom in the same focal length FOV range...

Nothing to get excited about.
no, you wouldn't be exited by a 60D/7D EOS dSLR performance in a PowerShot G1X... no... too bad...

Considering Canon's market position, this is not good enough. No innovation, no development, no moving forward. It is a lazy, cynical and very conservative effort by Canon IMO.

when the competition hasn't caught up... Canon can afford to do NOTHING, really, just put in 60D/7D sensor, trimmed a bit... put it in a PowerShot (long overdue)... and basically terrorize the entire mirrorless niche with a single model... never mind the entire APS-C dSLR market...

Considering Canon's HUGE market dominance I am surprised people here are not holding Canon to a higher standard than this.

agree... Canon, please give me a PowerShot Pro1 with a 24-96mm zoom and the G1X sensor... pls (no one else has)

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Knight Palm

-Does the G1X have any sort of dust- & splash protective sealings?
-Does it have sensor cleaning like other larger sensor DLRS cameras?

Unless P&S cameras has some sort of protective sealings, over time they will collect sensor dust. A problem eg. the Canon G series has several stories reported about.

Unfortunately, the end user has very little measures to correct such a problem, shooting at max open aperture can reduce the problem, but it's still there. Small apertures during bright winter sunlit days easily exposes this problem.

The obvious solution is to make the camera with interchangeable lenses.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

G1X shooter are most likely dSLR shooters on the high/top end, not noobs who don't know how to care for their cameras; worse, having a sub-par ILC system will not make the dust issue go away for such noobs, but in fact worsen it.

the apertures on the G1X are in fact larger in diameter than any m43 system using a zoom lens with similar focal length FOVs on both tele and wide ends. this means, G1X isn't as 'high-dof' as any m43 with the same zoom.

one would only resort to tighter apertures if the lighting were excessively bright on the preview, and readily avoided with any choice of higher shutter speeds, and lower ISOs, not 'just' tighter apertures.

you SEE the preview... it allows you to instantly tell what is ideal for any lit scenario, be it too bright or too dark. making shooting JPEGs in full M... as fast as pros do it with their FF/APS-H/APS-C dSLRs with ExpSim LV. (yes, AE is faster too, but relies on old 'compensation', unless one does a pre-assesment in M first)

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Knight Palm

Re: The obvious solution is to make the camera with interchangeable lenses.

Another solution, albeit probably going to make the camera a bit bulkier, would be to include the sensor cleaning ultrasound method launched by Olympus and later copied by all others.

At first, the sensor dust problem was denied for a long time, nowadays sensor cleaning is a commodity among all system camera vendors.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Faintandfuzzy

Looks like a great little camera....shame the OVF is like looking through a straw...the only reason I passed on it.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Agreed!

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Then4

Amazing good RAW quality. Thinking to uppgrade my Nex5n to a Nex 7. But i think i keep my Nex5n and get this one a a complement when i dont want to have al my objective with me.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

(unknown member)

What's wrong with you people? The NEX5n only came out in Sep 2011 and you're already planning your upgrade?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

M Jesper

I think the 5n and 7 come out about or at the same time. He's not upgrading, he's probably just considering that he might have made the wrong choice. Personally i think the 5n is much better for the low price, and a better sensor too. For more i'd go all the way to a SLR, and still have money left over for glass, compared to the 7 body only cost.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Madness road

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Samuel Dilworth

The serious colour moiré here suggests a weak or non-existent anti-aliasing filter: http://tinyurl.com/6nmemu7

Puts a damper on things...

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

good 1, Samuel !

Feb 16, 2012permalink

http://tinyurl.com/7eswnso

The serious colour moiré here suggests a weak or non-existent anti-aliasing filter... Puts a damper on things...

Seriously... noob...
you shoot ISO 100 indoors?
and RAW? (noob)

take a good look again at color moire... JPEG (at the noob (read: incorrect) ISO of 100) for indoors:

what matters is given the PowerShot G series has ES-LV, there is never a reason to shoot in RAW ESPECIALLY in full M modes:

testing high-ISO 6400 is the bottom line in darkest of conditions or indoors (modest lighting; hardly blazing), not the WRONG ISO... of 100 indoors (which makes sense if it were SUNNY!!!)

http://tinyurl.com/7v6cgb9

with Canon G1X ES-LV, exact exposures can be chosen, as well as optimal ISOs, meaning 6400 is not necessary, but if it does well, one can opt for alternative apertures (smaller diameters) or shorter shutter speeds, for higher dof.

if you lack ES-LV, it would explain why you still use the wrong ISOs indoors, resort to RAW, to allow you fixability

Feb 16, 2012permalink

SDYue, obvious canon employee... very obvious indeed. Look. Some of us shoot ISO 100 indoors on our compact cameras because we have 1.4 lenses on them. Which is impossible with this waste of money called G1X.

Not everyone has spent $5,000+ on heavy, bulky single lens reflex stuff, nor wants to.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

... oooo my, color moiré on the D3s even in JPEG...
http://tinyurl.com/7v6cgb9

suggests, in your mind, a weak or non-existent anti-aliasing filter...
awww, puts a damper on things for you even on a D3s...

how much digital darkroom 'fix-it' pp do you do?
(more than is necessary, really, given you prefer RAW; it means that's all you know)

folks don't use what's there... they just go through a ritual of fixing poorly chosen settings (speed, ISO, aperture, etc)... without any benefit of optimal preview of their settings could be way off, and rely on RAW to be able to shoot an incorrect exposure, the fix-it in pp... this isn't brilliant, it is utter stupidity.

there is NOTHING wrong with using RAW for extracting the last bit of fine details, or doing 'creative' pp (for a different look or effect), but it is entirely a CRUTCH to use RAW because one is incompetent on the use of a tool best utilized in other ways.

wow... if you are that handicapped, the G1X isn't for you
seriously.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Are you so hyperactive for everything??? WOOW... what a jewel!

Feb 17, 2012permalink

sdyue : where the hell is the moiré on the D3S??? Go and get some glasses.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

If Canon didn't put AAF filter in this one... it's an interesting fact to know... you can handle it, you can like it or not... but facts are interesting to know.... maybe you know (well, beeing nikon maybe not), that there will be 2 versions of the Nikon D800, one without AAF filter (and more expensive btw). And please... you can say the same with 1/100 of the words you use.. OUR time is gold.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Samuel Dilworth

Please clarify the following acronyms you used in your post, sdyue:

ES-LV
RAW
SUNNY
ESPECIALLY

Thanks.

Aliasing problems can't be fixed in post. You can at best paint imagined information over the worst-affected areas, which is what in-camera JPEG engines and applications like Lightroom do with raw files.

Someone said colour moiré is as pleasant as eating glass, which stuck in my mind since it's so apt a description. Aliasing in digital sampling is usually broken engineering, and the current trend towards dumping the anti-aliasing filter to satisfy an edge-sharpness fetish will meet opposition from my quarter.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

M Jesper

Seriously impressive sensor. Now put it in a ILC.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I have a Samsung EX1/TL500 and I have with me really only when I cannot bring my Canon 5D MK2 at least with one small light prime attached, so I can have at least a decent pic with my pocket.
But never I will say I can bring with me my 5D, but I don't I will bring a mirrorless camera.
I cannot believe that now so much people can say bye to wonderful Dslr with their optical and realistic viewfinder for a nice screen view, this is a madness road, that fooled and crazed all people, but Canon try to resist, welldone Canon, seriuos brand, I know it, very soon you'll answer all this people, and you will do a mirrorhorrorless camera for them.
Good marketing choose.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

Wonderful DSRL have their optical and realistic (if you are lucky) viewfinder, but what you get is not so realistic, it's a digital version of that you see.
So in the digital era a good EVF is not so crazy.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

" Real" is a concept to difficult for a forum, anyway is evident that you never saw through a good optical viewfinder if you can accept a good EVF and thanks you said me about digital result of a shot...it is a surprise for me.
When you shot through a OVF your eyes, your mind are impressed by a "real" vision if our supposed our eyes give us a " real" vision and not an already manipulated digital vision of a EVF or screen with a billions of dots, after everyone have a digital result ok, that is not more "real" than a chemical result anyway, but the start point is really different...

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

I meant. Do you prefer to watch the real thing or what real you will get?... I think it's not so evident... better, soon (very soon) it will not be so evident.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I already answered you in my precedent post, maybe in bad english.
Anyway good luck with your mirrorealess.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Thank you. and for you good luck with your 3 Kg. backpack . There's market now almost for everyone... and that's GOOD !.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

...almost for everyone??????..aaaggghhh..God, people are on a madness road, a Babel of cameras...and have not enought ....want more and more.....MIRRORSENSELESS

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Senseless is the Mpixel race... but that's another topic.
A portable camera with a very good IQ, dynamic and tonal ranges in high iso (and noise) like a DSRL,was (is) the biggest market niche.
Now I see only 2 options:G1X and GX1
Why did you buy that samsung then? (as I did with my LX3 or G12).
Lots (lots) of ppl are wishing to abandon their mediocre DSRL cameras and lens.(as I did with my Pana L10, wich I gifted to my little daughter for learning)
I'm not talking about cameras like your 5DII (I was thinking to get one but... not sure if it's the camera for me... and was the one and only DSRL I would get quality/price ratio at this moment in Spain)
Pleased to meet you, njkdo...and enjoy shooting

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

I bought Samsung EX1, only because i have not an Iphone or similar with me and when really I can have not with me my Dslr, but for sure I could not have with me a Mirrorless camera because they are too chunky sometimes, if happen I need to shoot something the EX1 give me a chance to make a decent pic, but believe this is not usually, because my 5D with a prime on 28 35 50 in not that bulky like you think, it is but it is portable too in my usually bag padded, millions of people have always with them their BULKY laptop, why it is so strange have with us a Dslr?
Anyway believe me, you can buy what you want mirrorless, but when you will see pics from your future Full Frame...you will say how much time I lost with all this toys.
Anyway photography is not about camera, but about eyes.
Suggest you buy a good pocket and wait to buy a Full Frame in next future.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

I didn't mean I don't undestand you or that I think it's strange to have a Dsrl with you. But there is a lot of ppl, low profile enthusiast if you want + ppl that want to take good pic in their travels, concerts, celebrations and so on... and many more that WANTS a portable camera with some IQ level. Nothing more. Serious photography was not my point...
Believe me. I was (I'm) thinking seriously the same you pointed at. If I buy an ILC, it will be FF. That's for sure. Thank you for share your experience. :)

Feb 18, 2012*permalink

i'm here to only share relevant info for shooters like myself who happen to be already dSLR owners, be it FF, or APS-H, or APS-C, who have held off for quite along time with great reservations on a suitable 'prosumer' compact to complement the dSLR, and that it must have a level of IQ and sufficient focal length choices for daily walk-around 24/7 carry around digicam, and not 'another' full ILC system, which do not perform anywhere near what can already be had with our FF/APS-H/APS-C dSLRs.

or even PowerShot G shooters looking for an update 'G' but with vastly improved IQ of a dSLR.

i do it with keen interest on how the G1X compares to what we already own, so that upon scrutiny, the IQ would not be at a level that we'd be ashamed of being handicapped with, that many smaller systems face, or 'in between' or current mirrorless systems. and YES, good performance in LOW light at HIGH ISO's do matter, as we have already taken it for granted with our current larger sensored dSLRs.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

so the keen interest i have in the G1X is higher than for past PowerShot G's because they simply were not at a level i wanted, and expected much more.
now the G1X IQ is at a level i can 'tolerate'.
i.e.... IQ close to a 60D/7D even though being handicapped by a fixed zoom.

The G was long overdue with its VERY usable body size (smaller would not be better, nor larger) and good ergonomics, far better than past G iterations, that surely could fit the 1.5" sensor now in it, if not even much larger (which then would make having a 'flat fast prime' be a natural fit to maintain overall size without getting oversized).

it will still be limited relative to dSLRs, but it sure offers a very respectable IQ that I finally have no hesitation to either recommend to others, or get myself (but for the lack of a 24-96mm FOV zoom).

so, my intended readers are mostly those with dSLRs already... and just offering the convenience of grouping how the G1X fares against specifically larger sensor systems.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

dsm6

Is there any way to hide posts by author?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

ddjerfi

This is amazing XD

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I think that sdyue needs to start up their own website instead of attempting to hijack all the threads here at DPR. The over the top, incessantly borish droll is simply amazing.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Greynerd

You have to admire Sdyue's messages to her beloved subjects as you do not often see someone so in awe of themselves. Even the royal 'we' is used.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

sotirius

1. you're on drugs, 2.you're using a humor i do not understand.
seriously lady, none of your comments make sense! not even 1%

Feb 16, 2012permalink

TurboSled

Glad I'm not the only one. LOL

Feb 16, 2012permalink

TurboSled

Which reminds me... Does this camera have live view exposure preview? No really, I'm serious here. ;)

Feb 16, 2012permalink

88SAL

I think she is fishing for something that wont exist in her lifetime.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

APS-C and APS-H are both frame sizes from a discontinued film format. Canon stole those names and abused them to refer to sensors that were not even close to the same dimensions specified in those standards.

Meanwhile "FF" is an acronym for "full-frame," which simply defines the relationship between a sensor and lens. 12 years ago, we all wanted the day to come when there would be an ILC digital camera where the lenses gave us the same ranges of angles-of-view that we were accustomed to from our 135-format cameras. We called such an option "full-frame" because it would mean the lenses were optimized for the digital format they were being used on.

Today, you can get many "full-frame" digital lenses that are optimized for the sensor sizes of ILC digital cameras. The dream we hoped for came true.

Now you get better IQ than 135-format film in a full-frame 4/3" or NEX ILC system that is 1/2 the size, weight, and cost (if not less).

That is, if you're not anchored to the past.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

if you don't understand what i am saying... it explains why so many are clueless on how the G1X is used, especially in full M mode...

it's obvious now... when a product comes along that is a clear threat... the masses get hot under the collar... for no reason really, except maybe owning a product that it eclipses in a nice compact form...

do you folks troll other new products just to discourage, obfuscate, distract, potential buyers of a product that shows considerable improvements above the rest?... well, it will only work with those who are P&S anyway... not the rest of us who know what the G1X represents... something competitors haven' been able to match, meaning... there's a lot of catch up to do or fizzle into a smaller specialty niche market than before...

there is now clear overlap of digicams with largest dSLRs, and in-between ILC systems just sit unremarkably in the middle with iffy IQ barely matching the G1X...

Feb 17, 2012*permalink

Which reminds me... Does this camera have live view exposure preview? No really, I'm serious here. ;)

yes, and it is a bit better than the D3/D3x/D3s/D4...
G1X has that 'thumbwheel'... (an EOS-1 classic)

well, i guess if i repeat something often enough, somebody might 'get it'... or not...

DPReview, still makes no mention of its (ES-LV) relevance in its comparison tables... between models that have it or not. it wasn't long ago that LV digicams were listed on DPR as NOT having LV, that was how bizarre it has been, for those who used non-LV dSLRs for so long they didn't even know its usefulness, which is now available even in dSLRs too.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Carlos AF Costa

Is it my system or something is wrong with DPR?
I can't any see standard test scene with Canon G1X or Pana GX1

Feb 16, 2012permalink

liquidsquid

My goodness, there seems to be a heavy weight of fanboy in this thread. "I'm dumpin my m4/3, blah blah..." because it doesn't perform as well as a brand new sensor compared to an older one at ISO6400!

I mean come one already, judging at 6400??? Kinda defeats the purpose of all these fast lenses everyone is clamoring for. The last time I NEEDED 6400 was, um, wait, um... oh yeah pixel-peeping tests. Perhaps once or twice trying to get a decent shot of my son indoors at night with poor lighting out of 10's of thousands of shots I have taken with my camera.

So much more goes into a cam than IQ of the sensor. I still cannot believe how spoiled we have all become vs. film days.

p.s. Looking forward to the new Olympus which reportedly does NOT use a Panasonic sensor (and seems to have evidence of it based on the RAW samples) Wow.

With that said, this Canon does look pretty nice, just not my bag getting stuck with a single lens.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

iudex

I definitely agree. I limited the automatic ISO setting on my DSLR to 3200 maximum (although it could be up to 25600). Talking about ISO6400 performance is a bit funny to me.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

HowaboutRAW

liquidsquid:

If you don't feel that you need ISO 6400 with a fast lens, then it means you're not shooting in lowlight.

That's all, it's a feature important to some and not to others, you'd be amongst those others.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

i shoot M, meaning no auto-ISO at all, this allows me to preview exposure simulation live for every triplet of speed/ISO/aperture depending on the effect i want under the most extreme of low dimly lit scenarios.
if ISO 6400 IQ is better than past models or rival models (or even dSLRs), then i am going to pay attention to every gain.
no doubt, it's nowhere near what i want, and presently, no mfr offers anything better unless i go pro options, which i cannot afford: 1DX (good res) or D3s (too low res), D4.

these three also happen to include Canon's ExpSim LV, much like the ES-LV (exposure simulation live preview) of PowerShot G series.

competitors do not offer ES-LV in their lower dSLR/mirrorless models, at least not full time, nor as direct previewable while making parameter adjustments at the same time.

it is a welcome change to see BIG improvements at ISO6400 especially given it is an integrated lens compact prosumer instead of an ILC system with larger sensors.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

sdyue, dude, say more with less, much less.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

Fullframer

Liquidsquid,
Perhaps for you, you don't need ISO 6,400. Some of us do. Ever shoot highschool sports in dimly lit gyms? even with a pro F2.8 zoom, 6400 is many times needed. Since I use a D3S, quality is very good at ISO6400 out of the camera JPG

Feb 16, 2012permalink

liquidsquid

See, this is contradictory. You are saying you need iso6400, yet say you need a fast long lens to go with it to be of any use. This particular camera does not have both. Simply put the high ISO capabilities and limited lens at full zoom still aren't enough along with no chance of getting a faster lens on it. m4/3, NEX is not ideal either, no long/fast zooms or primes.

The old shooting indoor sports rap gets tiring to hear, simply because we have a long ways to go in affordable consumer-level gear to achieve at least F2.8, at minimum 400mm equiv auto-focus with tracking, and high fps >7, iso not included here.

With the right methods, non-ideal setups can get great results for indoor sports, yet it is a struggle. Even the pros have to get their cams on the court and have to worry about getting trampled or sweat slobbered on their gear to get a good shot, so saying just iso6400 with a slow zoom with poor focus gets you there is nonsense.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

SDYue, did Canon steal exposure simulation LiveView from Olympus. Or did they license it?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

rghoag

My Nikon F had asa 50 Agfa film in it and my shots were no better
than my 10 megapix point and shoot. Think we all need a chill pill.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

lbrulhart

The quality of the lens is very bad......
For me the test is not comparable because the Zuiko and the canon lens 50mm are juste perfect lens.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

IlGrandeZippo

Canon g1x lens:
• 15.1 - 60.4 mm (35mm equivalent: 28-112mm)
• F2.8-5.8

Why in the test we have used 112 mm e F7.1??

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Thank you, Zippo...

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Simple, first, one wants as close an equivalent FOV, but at the max tele end of a zoom (this is where the optics are specifically tuned for, so why opt for an inbetween focal length short of max?), as well as very similar DOF so that it can compare with other systems of relatively larger sensors, such as:

e.g @ ISO 6400
5DMkII @ 85mm FOV f/11 (Full M) 85/11 = 7.73mm DOF
G1X @ 112mm FOV f/7.1 (Full M) 60.4mm/7.1 = 8.51mm DOF
D3s @ 85mm FOV f/8.0 (A-priority) = 85/8 = 10.63mm DOF
60D @ 80mm FOV (50mm) f/8.0 (Full M) = 50/8 = 6.25mm DOF

as for exposure of what shutter speed is used to match ISO selected, it will be selected so the overall preview in M shows a proper 'ideal' look.

since the G1X has exposure simulation live preview, this ideal 'look' would be self-evident before the shot is taken, for every ISO chosen, there is an appropriate shutter speed. given one wants the DOF to remain held at similar diameters to competitors in same range.

other cameras may not have such a preview

Feb 16, 2012permalink

ecka84

Yes, why using the extreme telephoto end for benchmarking? It's not very good for IQ.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

oluv

Dear Dpreview team, what about a shootout of the G1X and GX1 with the pancake kitlens attached, as both will be pretty similar in overall size.

Surprisingly the G1X holds up pretty well to the zuiko 50 makro. I doubt the pz14-42 from panasonic will be able to compete sharpnesswise.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Andy Crowe

A full review of the 14-42 x wouldn't go amiss too :)

Feb 16, 2012permalink

jonikon

With the release of the G1X studio images, it's now obvious to anyone who has eyes that the mediocre slow focusing lens in the G1X puts it at a huge disadvantage to the latest state of the art interchangeable lens cameras like the Nikon System One, Olympus Pen, and Sony NEX cameras. No doubt the Canon G1X will be a the first and last of it's type, soon to be replaced by a compact interchangeable lens camera in the genre of the Sony NEX cameras.

The two-fold question is why is Canon taking so long to enter the very fast growing compact mirror-less ILC market, and will their entry be worth the wait?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

GaryJP

I'm using it already.

It's superb in terms of IQ. Better than my m43s.

And I am ALWAYS ready to dump a camera that doesn't perform.

Wish people would stop grinding their axes. But then, DPReview would be empty.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Gediminas 8

Fanboy alert.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

photo nuts

Can you point me to ONE fast ZOOM kit lens with the Nikon V1/J1, Olympus PEN and Sony NEX systems?

Answer: zip, zilch, nada

Feb 16, 2012permalink

wetsleet

@ jonikon How would the 'slow focusing' manifest in studio shots?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

folks are going to say AF works great in very low light... sorry... NO AF works well in low light period... neither C-AD or PD-AF.
if you are getting fast AF... obviously, there's plenty of light (stage lighting or stadium/arena lighting is tremendously bright) or more so, daylight available even if under shade (indoors).
keep in mind, that as one shifts to conditions of either shallow dof, the contrast boundaries are softer, thus harder to focus, even if one is at the widest open apertures where contrast is highest, and on the other hand and narrower tighter aperture diameters, dof will go up, so there are more contrast boundaries to be detected for focus, but contrast is lower at tighter apertures. it is a tricky dilemma for any AF system in very dim conditions but should have little difficulty when there is a lot of light (artificial lighting). all such factors make a big difference to AF. MF does what AF cannot; so folks knowing how to use it in darkest dim conditions will be ok.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Felipe Rodríguez

Agreed!

For me this slow lens is quite disappointing. I would rather go for a good fast fixed lens. Well, in fact, I've already gone: I own the Fuji X100... :)

Feb 16, 2012permalink

X100 23mm f/2.0 (35mm FOV equivalent) APS-C sensor 1.52x
DOF = 23/2.0 = 11.5mm diameter (for shallower dof)
DOF = 23/3.5 = 6.6mm diameter
w/ fixed fast prime

G1X 15.1 - 60.4mm f/2.8 - f/5.8 (28-112 FOV equivalent) 1.8543x
G1X 18.9mm f/3.5
DOF = 18.9/3.5 = 5.4mm diameter
w/ 4x zoom

yup, X100 is limited by a fixed single focal length 'fast' prime... that has an advantage of a wider max diameter aperture (disadvantages of not being a zoom)... AND a sensor with a pixel density that's lower (larger pixel) and should mean it should be better at higher ISOs in very low light... than the G1X...

too bad... DPR does not do low light intensity testing... which leaves everyone to figure it all out shooting only if owning a particular model.

for now... can the Fuji keep up... with its faster lens at higher ISO's with a superior (bigger) pixel pitch (but lower resolution)???

Martini bottle medallions @ ISO 3200
PowerShot G1X vs D3s vs NEX-5N vs X100
http://tinyurl.com/7yb6hlt

images show, yes.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Fullframer

Photonuts,
While they isn't any fast zooms for the M43, there are very fast primes 25mm F1.4, 20mm F1.7 pancake, etc

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Tony Sleep

Because, quite simply Canon learned the lesson of the 1980's and does not want to trash its DSLR sales. You will notice that the mfrs making the running in EVF bigger-than-pea sensors are all outsiders with little to lose in the DSLR sector.

Feb 23, 2012permalink

Gianluca101

In the last days this tool it's became totally useless... if you try too download the images from raw or jpeg you can find that

sony nex-7: iso 6400 - f8 - 1/2000s
panasonic gx1: iso 6400 - f6,3 - 1/1600s
canon g1x: iso 6400 - f7,1 - 1/1000s

from sony to panasonic there's a full EV
from sony to canon there's a full EV and 1/3..

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

GaryJP

Not to mention the different lens setting.

G1 X on 112 mm equivalent.
GX1 on 50 mm macro.

Weird.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I am also not happy with Panasonic. I own a G3 and the IQ from G1X is much better. However, you can change lens on M43. If the new OM-D turns out to be great. I might get the new OM. I had the 9-18 lens from Olympus and it is really good. Actually, I think it is better then my EF17-40.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Gianluca101

50*2=100 mm equivalent

Feb 16, 2012permalink

BBViet

If I have to guess, that would be because the GX1 and G1X have inflated ISO ratings. Their 6400 is more like 4000-5000. The upside is that the image look cleaner because the amount of gain is less than the rated 6400. The downside is the accompanying slower shutter speed which isn't at all reflected in static comparision tests like this. It's a win/win tactic.

Feb 16, 2012*permalink

There is nothing 'weird' about using different lens focal lengths and aperture and shutter speed settings... WHY?
Because for ANY given subject composition restricted to a FIXED location (and thus perspective), every camera that has the ability to capture the 'target subject within a composition context' must demonstrate IQ, succeed OR FAIL.
The studio scenario is but one such challenge.
Venture out into the real world, you are going to be restricted in many situations where side-by-side, your camera-lens choices are going to face challenges of diverse variety with very restricted time frames (opportunity limitations); and again, either the IQ for that model body/lens is going to succeed or fail wrt how it fares against other models. THINK!!! Ideal conditions that cater to the optimal 'sweet spot' of a body-lens-sensor do not always come around with what you have on hand, and thus you face a challenge that you are either up to, or you back off. You do what you must w/ what you've got

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Bought G1X last week. I think the IQ is very good. Much better then my Panasonic G3. It would be nice if my Panasonic G3 has the same sensor and control as the G1X.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

G1X looks terribly soft. $800 and stuck with only a kit lens? Thanks but no thanks. This is obviously Canon trying to do mirrorless without cutting into Rebel sales (not that I blame 'em). But look at the comments below, Canon is stuck viewing 135-format (a dying dinosaur) as if it were the only full-frame format. It's not. All these mirrorless and consumer DSLR cameras are full-frame between the lenses and sensors. 135 is the new medium format. Micro Four Thirds looks better than film scans, and looks great at any sane ISO levels. Who honestly cares which camera has the best "worst quality" mode? I don't care what 6400 looks like. They all look better at 800 or 1600. Put a Panny 20 1.7 and then you don't need as high ISO anyway!

Feb 16, 2012permalink

I got it last week for 5980HKD (with one extra battery and 8G SD card) I think it is doing much better then my Panasonic G3.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

GaryJP

Well, I am ready to dump my Micro Four Thirds.

It's nice there's a lot of choice out there, isn't it.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

softness = more finer gradient contours of color/shades
good thing the softness comes with finer resolved details
and it does not need to resort to oversharpening with resulting digital accutance halos...
at least this G1X 'kit lens' is going to make m43 obsolete, even with the cumbersome interchangeable lenses available, figuring out if you can capture a given shot with a specific composition is going to be awkward... lost time... means lost opportunities... means no shots.
no such thing as a 'worst quality' mode... but rather a 'hardest extreme' shooting scenario... lots DO care what is possible at ISO 6400, and having a fast wide lens will not solve the problem if your shooting perspective is restricted (e.g. you cannot walk onto a sports field, but must stay beyond the sidelines; you cannot walk off the edge of a cliff, or back into a mountain wall, or step into 'muck' or water, etc.) ZOOMS have a purpose.
it's a compact zoom of comparable focal lengths and apertures most used.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Fullframer

Agreed with the Panny 20 1.7. Go with the Pana-Leica 25 F1.4 for even better/faster quality. It's still not too big.

Feb 16, 2012permalink

Francis Carver

"135 is the new medium format."

"Micro Four Thirds looks better than film scans."

dark goob, just where are you coming up with this stuff from, if I may ask?

Feb 16, 2012permalink

SDYue... if 6400 is so important then why does it still look terrible on the G1X? I thought the Panasonic at least had better detail.

Sharpening can be adjusted in the camera. If you don't like the level of sharpening then turn it down! LOL. Most people like sharp pictures though... ones that are ready to print with no adjustments. Canon still thinks it is 2003 and everyone is going to spend 30 minutes in PP on each image before printing -- but people want print-ready images out of the camera. It has nothing to do with the sensor size or lens format!

I'm sure Canon WANTS to make 4/3" format obsolete, because it has taken 10% of their market share in two years. Canon does not want to admit to itself that most people do not WANT digital SLR cameras, even the ones who have it already, because you can get just as good or better pictures for almost all normal purposes with a mirrorless PEN or NEX.

Canon is threatened and you are its response. You are delusional that G1X has better ISO.

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Francis Carver... 135 is the new medium format because 135-format cameras represent less than 2% of ILC cameras sold in the past two years. More than 98% of camera users neither need nor want the "advantages" that 135-format grants: insanely high megapixels, night-vision level sensitivity. Only professional photographers and super-serious amateurs with lots of cash to blow are willing/capable to operate in 135-format digital. 15 years ago the same could be said for medium format film cameras like Hasselblads, etc., relative to 135-format SLRs.

"Micro Four Thirds looks better than film scans": I have worked in a professional digital & film lab for about 10 years collectively. I do scans on a regular basis. I shoot a lot of pictures on a lot of cameras ranging from Four Thirds to 135-format. I regularly print images on a Canon ipf8300 44"-wide inkjet (awesome printer!!!).

And I am just telling you that images shot on Micro Four Thirds look better than 135-format film scans. Capisce?

Feb 17, 2012permalink

Richie Beans

Looks like that Digic-5 processor is worthless. The upshot is that this camera makes the G-12 look awesome.... maybe I'll pick up a G-12 on clearance!

Feb 16, 2012permalink